Building costs per sq. met. Sukothai area

[QDG]

I intend to relocate to Thung Saliem area Sukothai early next year. Would much appreciate advice regarding building costs per sq. met.(bungalow) in area, and contact for reliable builder. Cheers!

[keithkarmann]

I plan to build a house in Thung Saliam soon as my girlfriend who is from T.S. loses the extra weight she has gained while she has lived with me for the past nearly two years here in Hang Dong, yes I have put on weight as well.

I plan to build a bungalow about 100 square meters on land owned by her father at the moment but a plot of this land about 1200 sq meters is supposed to be getting transferred over to my girlfriend.When that happens then I will get a 30 year lease/usufruct on the land, not that I would ever want to live there on my own if the relationship went wrong. At the moment I plan to oversee the project myself, getting quotes for the foundations etc. I have been in contact with a builder in the main village and they gave me a price for the concrete floor slabs. Next tme I go there I will get some more quotes from them so I can do a estimate of my build costs.

I want to use concrete blocks for the walls, thicker than normal at 40cm h x 20cm h x 14cm deep as they may be better at keeping the heat out and the noise out.

I do not plan to spend more than 700,000 baht, probably get away with doing some work myself as the moobhan is in the middle of knowhere and if I give some employment to a couple of locals, maybe even her father will get out of his hammock and give me a hand after all I am paying for his monthly car payments indirectly.

Give me a call if you want on either removed per forum rules

Edited July 25, 2014 by Crossy
email and phone numbers removed

[IMHO]

I want to use concrete blocks for the walls, thicker than normal at 40cm h x 20cm h x 14cm deep as they may be better at keeping the heat out and the noise out.

If you're talking about "cinder blocks" that are nornally only used for fences or shacks, there's a few things you should know..

When exposed to direct sunlight, they get incredibly hot on the outside, and they transfer lots of heat to the inside. Even standard 6cm red Thai bricks transfer less heat than double-width cinder blocks do.

On non-sun facing walls they are OK though.

if you want to keep out the noise and heat, nothing beats a double brick cavity wall - not even 20cm thick AAC blocks will beat 2 rows of red bricks.

If you're looking to do it as cheap as possible, on sun-facing walls consider using 6cm cinder blocks for the outside course, then standard red bricks on the inside course. For non-sun-facing walls, just use red bricks or your wide cinder blocks.

Edited July 25, 2014 by IMHO

[keithkarmann]

I want to use concrete blocks for the walls, thicker than normal at 40cm h x 20cm h x 14cm deep as they may be better at keeping the heat out and the noise out.

If you're talking about "cinder blocks" that are nornally only used for fences or shacks, there's a few things you should know..

When exposed to direct sunlight, they get incredibly hot on the outside, and they transfer lots of heat to the inside. Even standard 6cm red Thai bricks transfer less heat than double-width cinder blocks do.

On non-sun facing walls they are OK though.

if you want to keep out the noise and heat, nothing beats a double brick cavity wall - not even 20cm thick AAC blocks will beat 2 rows of red bricks.

If you're looking to do it as cheap as possible, on sun-facing walls consider using 6cm cinder blocks for the outside course, then standard red bricks on the inside course. For non-sun-facing walls, just use red bricks or your wide cinder blocks.

Not sure if they are classed as cinder blocks but some villas we stayed at in Hua Hin were made from the blocks I have mentioned and we noticed how much cooler they were inside when compared with the house we rent in Hang Dong which is made of very narrow red bricks and at times the walls get very hot inside. Maybe the villa in Hua Hin has more shade so maybe that is one answer to agree the location of the house and plant some reasonably sized trees before construction especially around the sides of the house that will be more exposed to the sun. At the rear of the house there are many trees so we do not have to worry about that as long as we get the house the right distance from the trees.;b++){var>

Have you personal experience of houses built with these 14cm block see photo attached. The 6cm blocks are more solid and I can see how the heat can go though these easily but the deeper blocks have a very big air. I will do a temperature check on the 14cm blocks tomorrow.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Crossy
fixed some odd script text

[IMHO]

Yes, speaking from direct experience. As noted, if cinder blocks don't get direct sunlight, they're OK. When they do get direct sunlight though, they underperform.

Experimenting a a great idea - it's not like any of them are expensive

[QDG]

thanks for your advice guys, but what I really want is an idea of price per square metre, bungallow style, using decent tiles, blocks etc.

[IMHO]

thanks for your advice guys, but what I really want is an idea of price per square metre, bungallow style, using decent tiles, blocks etc.

8,000 - 15,000 per sqm, depending on your own materials choices.

[chiang mai]

We built 84 square metres in Thung Saliem, (the centre of the universe) about six years ago, THB 9,000 per square metre finished to decent standard - post and pile construction, CPAC roof, all done by a local builder who can't read plans and wont follow them even if he could, the end product is not that bad however. We bought all the materials ourselves and the builder provided the labour on a fixed price basis. PM me if you wish and I'll try and find his contact details.

EDIT: the above costs do not include land which was already owned.

Edited July 26, 2014 by chiang mai

[keithkarmann]

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thanks for your advice guys, but what I really want is an idea of price per square metre, bungallow style, using decent tiles, blocks etc.

Be very carefull if you go for the price per sq. meter as I have seen the result of a property which was built this way and to keep costs down (and profits up) (especially if you are not there to oversee the project) there was not enough concrete in the foundations and the (only 2 year old house) rear of the large property was visibly sinking with cracks in the walls and floors.

Whatever I spend on my house will be money I can afford to lose as there will be no chance of me reselling it and unlike Western countries house values rarely increase in Thailand, This is my reason to keep the costs down.

[kannot]

any cavity wall stick some polystyrene slabs in them will stop heat dead in its tracks

[IMHO]

any cavity wall stick some polystyrene slabs in them will stop heat dead in its tracks

In our experience, adding extra insulation is just overkill - a double brick rendered cavity wall (using just normal red bricks, with a ~7cm air gap) will keep the interior side at +0 to +1c ambient temperature, even with full sunshine on the exterior side for hours.

[kannot]

any cavity wall stick some polystyrene slabs in them will stop heat dead in its tracks

In our experience, adding extra insulation is just overkill - a double brick rendered cavity wall (using just normal red bricks, with a ~7cm air gap) will keep the interior side at +0 to +1c ambient temperature, even with full sunshine on the exterior side for hours.

the radiant heat will not be stopped , it will slowly seep into the house, whats your in/out temps at about 8-9pm or in the early morning?, i bet the house will be hotter inside than outside then. the blocks will still hold the heat due to heat radiated thru to the second layer of blocks like a massive storage heater. in the day with all windows closed it will be cooler in than out, but after 6pm house will be hotter. polystyrene insulation would stop the radiated heat thru to the second inner wall

[wayned]

Polystyrene is a good insulating material for use in such things as ice chests, etc. But it should never be used as insulation in a house, especially in walls where there are electric wires and such. It is very flammable and gives off toxic smoke and fumes when it burns!

[kannot]

Polystyrene is a good insulating material for use in such things as ice chests, etc. But it should never be used as insulation in a house, especially in walls where there are electric wires and such. It is very flammable and gives off toxic smoke and fumes when it burns

im not sure if the "modern foam" they use is non flammable or not, its used in the UK and looks exactly the same as "polystyrene" so forgive me if its not changed,. an alternative would be the rolls of fibreglass.

We still use what looks like polystyrene backed plasterboard in the uk even now so maybe it has some flame retardant in it here? (checked and it does), there is also another type of foam backed board but the foam is a yellow colour in the UK. Urethane foam

Either way the point about the insulation is valid for radiant heat passing form the inner to outer walls.

See current link http://www.buildingmaterials.co.uk/gyproc-thermaline-basic-insulated-plasterboard.html

Maybe its a combination of plasterboard and polystyrene that makes it less flammable, The Uk has very strict rules on poly as I know ceiling tiles are very flammable.

This is what the the pdf brochure on the polystyrene foam board (called THERMALINE) states re fire

Uk Foam is called yelofoam extruded polystyrene and is used in cavity walls.

Polystyrene tiles and roles are now produced with a fire retardant additive and have been tested by the Home Office and Fire Safety Agencies and are deemed safe and not a fire hazard.

hexabromocyclododecane is the fire retardant in polystyrene

Now whether the THAI authorities have done this I dont know with Thai produced polystyrene? I would hope its worldwide

Board performance

Fire protection

Plasterboard linings provide good fire protection owing to the

unique behaviour of the non-combustible gypsum core when

subjected to high temperatures. For the purposes of Building

Regulations Approved Document B, plasterboard is designated

a ‘material of limited combustibility’. The surfaces of

Gyproc ThermaLine basic are designated Class 0 (for the purposes

of the Building Regulations). Please refer to the table below.

Edited August 30, 2014 by kannot

[kannot]

I see they are phasing out the hbcd flame retardant for another type now in the EU.

Maybe a good idea to just buy a sheet and try to ignite it first outdoors

[IMHO]

any cavity wall stick some polystyrene slabs in them will stop heat dead in its tracks

In our experience, adding extra insulation is just overkill - a double brick rendered cavity wall (using just normal red bricks, with a ~7cm air gap) will keep the interior side at +0 to +1c ambient temperature, even with full sunshine on the exterior side for hours.

the radiant heat will not be stopped , it will slowly seep into the house, whats your in/out temps at about 8-9pm or in the early morning?, i bet the house will be hotter inside than outside then. the blocks will still hold the heat due to heat radiated thru to the second layer of blocks like a massive storage heater. in the day with all windows closed it will be cooler in than out, but after 6pm house will be hotter. polystyrene insulation would stop the radiated heat thru to the second inner wall

Nope, not at all hotter after the sun goes down, just perpetually at +0 to +1c ambient temp.

Edited August 30, 2014 by IMHO

[chiang mai]

Polystyrene is a good insulating material for use in such things as ice chests, etc. But it should never be used as insulation in a house, especially in walls where there are electric wires and such. It is very flammable and gives off toxic smoke and fumes when it burns

im not sure if the "modern foam" they use is non flammable or not, its used in the UK and looks exactly the same as "polystyrene" so forgive me if its not changed,. an alternative would be the rolls of fibreglass.

We still use what looks like polystyrene backed plasterboard in the uk even now so maybe it has some flame retardant in it here? (checked and it does), there is also another type of foam backed board but the foam is a yellow colour in the UK. Urethane foam

Either way the point about the insulation is valid for radiant heat passing form the inner to outer walls.

See current link http://www.buildingmaterials.co.uk/gyproc-thermaline-basic-insulated-plasterboard.html

Maybe its a combination of plasterboard and polystyrene that makes it less flammable, The Uk has very strict rules on poly as I know ceiling tiles are very flammable.

This is what the the pdf brochure on the polystyrene foam board (called THERMALINE) states re fire

Uk Foam is called yelofoam extruded polystyrene and is used in cavity walls.

Polystyrene tiles and roles are now produced with a fire retardant additive and have been tested by the Home Office and Fire Safety Agencies and are deemed safe and not a fire hazard.

hexabromocyclododecane is the fire retardant in polystyrene

Now whether the THAI authorities have done this I dont know with Thai produced polystyrene? I would hope its worldwide

Board performance

Fire protection

Plasterboard linings provide good fire protection owing to the

unique behaviour of the non-combustible gypsum core when

subjected to high temperatures. For the purposes of Building

Regulations Approved Document B, plasterboard is designated

a ‘material of limited combustibility’. The surfaces of

Gyproc ThermaLine basic are designated Class 0 (for the purposes

of the Building Regulations). Please refer to the table below.

Bugs such as termites and other nasties are partial to drywall/gyproc, ditto polystyrene (unless bug proof type)..The bugs will devour the entire house before the fireproofing comes into play, this isn't Ealing or Kansas you know..

http://www.termites.com/damage/structural-damage/termites-in-drywall-damage/

Edited August 30, 2014 by chiang mai

[kannot]

any cavity wall stick some polystyrene slabs in them will stop heat dead in its tracks

In our experience, adding extra insulation is just overkill - a double brick rendered cavity wall (using just normal red bricks, with a ~7cm air gap) will keep the interior side at +0 to +1c ambient temperature, even with full sunshine on the exterior side for hours.

the radiant heat will not be stopped , it will slowly seep into the house, whats your in/out temps at about 8-9pm or in the early morning?, i bet the house will be hotter inside than outside then. the blocks will still hold the heat due to heat radiated thru to the second layer of blocks like a massive storage heater. in the day with all windows closed it will be cooler in than out, but after 6pm house will be hotter. polystyrene insulation would stop the radiated heat thru to the second inner wall

Nope, not at all hotter after the sun goes down, just perpetually at +0 to +1c ambient temp.

windows open or closed?

I find that odd?? My house double cinder blocks air gap, early morning warmer than outside in cold season, Im talking 6am inside maybe 26 outside maybe 20c as the day progresses 10pm inside maybe 27c outside 31c, this carries on to about 4 pm when temps would be out 36 in 30c In the hot season there is a 10c difference maximum in the day 42c out 32 c in NO aircon

Evening 7pm onwards, outside temps fall to about 28 inside still at 30c. All windows closed plastic upvc no ventilation whatsoever as i dont like insects jing joks etc, nothing gets into my house. I could lower inside temps in the evening by opening all windows but would be plagued by wildlife

In the evening I put on the aircon.

I didnt insulate with foam in the walls of this house, the next one i will the foam will stop radiant heat form outer to inner walls which is what is happening even with the air gap, it just happens more slowly with the air gap it it still happens.

Edited August 30, 2014 by kannot

[IMHO]

the radiant heat will not be stopped , it will slowly seep into the house, whats your in/out temps at about 8-9pm or in the early morning?, i bet the house will be hotter inside than outside then. the blocks will still hold the heat due to heat radiated thru to the second layer of blocks like a massive storage heater. in the day with all windows closed it will be cooler in than out, but after 6pm house will be hotter. polystyrene insulation would stop the radiated heat thru to the second inner wall

Nope, not at all hotter after the sun goes down, just perpetually at +0 to +1c ambient temp.

windows open or closed?

You've asked a boolean question to which there is not a boolean answer

Windows are open when ambient temps are low, closed when ambient temps are high.

[kannot]

the radiant heat will not be stopped , it will slowly seep into the house, whats your in/out temps at about 8-9pm or in the early morning?, i bet the house will be hotter inside than outside then. the blocks will still hold the heat due to heat radiated thru to the second layer of blocks like a massive storage heater. in the day with all windows closed it will be cooler in than out, but after 6pm house will be hotter. polystyrene insulation would stop the radiated heat thru to the second inner wall

Nope, not at all hotter after the sun goes down, just perpetually at +0 to +1c ambient temp.

windows open or closed?

You've asked a boolean question to which there is not a boolean answer

Windows are open when ambient temps are low, closed when ambient temps are high.

nah so you are venting out the radiated heat that would be there in the blocks by opening the window and pulling in cooler air....is the answer, even the double block wall will admit radiated heat through it, i dont vent it out to stop insects burglars etc, you do, this is why Im warmer at certain times of day/late evening/early morning than outside which has benefits in the cool season ie last year 13.1 c out 21 c in.

Try it with windows and vents closed, i doubt you will have a 1 c difference then but it may well be cooler in the daytime than the 1c you mention.

If you are only getting a 1 c max difference when windows are closed so during the heat of the day you arent doing so well, my difference is 10c in/out in the hot season mid day afternoon time, in normal weather temps are at least 6 c different in the daytime between in and out.

polystyrene would stop the radiant heat dead in the air gap.

So in this case the outside temps were 41+ c but my inside was only 32c, according to your calcs you would in this case be at 0-1c+ so 40-41c at midday and according to you thats with your windows closed in which case if correct i dont see your double blocks doing anything??

In not "having a go at you" Im just stating what you have said and pointing out I would be 9-10 c lower with no windows open and no aircon on a 42c day.

Edited August 30, 2014 by kannot

[IMHO]

When the windows are closed. the AC is on, no point taking any comparative measurements then, as the AC is cooling the inside wall.

[kannot]

Polystyrene is a good insulating material for use in such things as ice chests, etc. But it should never be used as insulation in a house, especially in walls where there are electric wires and such. It is very flammable and gives off toxic smoke and fumes when it burns

im not sure if the "modern foam" they use is non flammable or not, its used in the UK and looks exactly the same as "polystyrene" so forgive me if its not changed,. an alternative would be the rolls of fibreglass.

We still use what looks like polystyrene backed plasterboard in the uk even now so maybe it has some flame retardant in it here? (checked and it does), there is also another type of foam backed board but the foam is a yellow colour in the UK. Urethane foam

Either way the point about the insulation is valid for radiant heat passing form the inner to outer walls.

See current link http://www.buildingmaterials.co.uk/gyproc-thermaline-basic-insulated-plasterboard.html

Maybe its a combination of plasterboard and polystyrene that makes it less flammable, The Uk has very strict rules on poly as I know ceiling tiles are very flammable.

This is what the the pdf brochure on the polystyrene foam board (called THERMALINE) states re fire

Uk Foam is called yelofoam extruded polystyrene and is used in cavity walls.

Polystyrene tiles and roles are now produced with a fire retardant additive and have been tested by the Home Office and Fire Safety Agencies and are deemed safe and not a fire hazard.

hexabromocyclododecane is the fire retardant in polystyrene

Now whether the THAI authorities have done this I dont know with Thai produced polystyrene? I would hope its worldwide

Board performance

Fire protection

Plasterboard linings provide good fire protection owing to the

unique behaviour of the non-combustible gypsum core when

subjected to high temperatures. For the purposes of Building

Regulations Approved Document B, plasterboard is designated

a ‘material of limited combustibility’. The surfaces of

Gyproc ThermaLine basic are designated Class 0 (for the purposes

of the Building Regulations). Please refer to the table below.

Bugs such as termites and other nasties are partial to drywall/gyproc, ditto polystyrene (unless bug proof type)..The bugs will devour the entire house before the fireproofing comes into play, this isn't Ealing or Kansas you know..

http://www.termites.com/damage/structural-damage/termites-in-drywall-damage/

I am well aware of where we are?? Gyproc is used extensively throughout Thailand and the stuff I linked to is available if you go to Thai watsadu on their gyproc sample board, termites will also chomp through electric cable so i assume you have none of that in your house?

On the link you provided is also this quote, Im not sure if they mean foam as in polystyrene?

Termites are not normally found in fiberglass insulation but they are commonly found in foam board insulation, especially if the foam board goes below grade on the exterior of a structure. Foam board below grade allows a direct conduit through the insulation into a structure. Researchers have concluded that termites do not eat the foam board insulation but they will tunnel through it.

Edited August 31, 2014 by kannot

[chiang mai]

Bugs such as termites and other nasties are partial to drywall/gyproc, ditto polystyrene (unless bug proof type)..The bugs will devour the entire house before the fireproofing comes into play, this isn't Ealing or Kansas you know..

http://www.termites.com/damage/structural-damage/termites-in-drywall-damage/

termites will also chomp through electric cable so i assume you have none of that in your house?

Correct! No wood products and no drywall, anywhere, all electric is encased in sealed plastic pipe. Next.

[kannot]

Bugs such as termites and other nasties are partial to drywall/gyproc, ditto polystyrene (unless bug proof type)..The bugs will devour the entire house before the fireproofing comes into play, this isn't Ealing or Kansas you know..

http://www.termites.com/damage/structural-damage/termites-in-drywall-damage/

termites will also chomp through electric cable so i assume you have none of that in your house?

Correct! No wood products and no drywall, anywhere, all electric is encased in sealed plastic pipe. Next.

oh they will find a way in to your sealed pipes dont worry, They dont eat polystyrene they tunnel through it, no cellulose in polystyrene.

Can Termites Eat Through Plastic?

Termites do not eat plastic; however, the aggressive Formosan termite is known to attack plastic in search of food. Your termite expert can advise you on the types of plastic that termites in your area will not be able to penetrate

Do you have any doors in your house? or are they all steel with steel frames?, do you live in a cave?

Is every electrical socket/outlet in your house sealed too ie behind the socket where the trunking comes in is sealed up with silicone between the cables and air space around the trunking? did you do it or a Thai worker?

Edited August 31, 2014 by kannot

[chiang mai]

Interested parties can form their own views, on the basis of this exchange.