How easy to legally employ Filipina Manager?

[mikeskibb]

You are absolutely right. I have run a restaurant for a good few years and have had the same experience with staff. Go for the filipinos any time. The odds will be on your side for efficiency and ability to accept YOUR ways on running YOUR business. Their diplomacy with guests is as legendary as the lack of it coming from the thais.....especially when something goes wrong ( and it does happen....). The thais keep smiling AS LONG AS they get their ways or that you keep tipping but cannot take any flak at all. ( Unless you are a thai boss or customer and then they will crawl in front of you...

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[Pralaad]

There are several reasons why I want to employ a Filipina over a Thai manager. This is based on my own experience of building and owning small hotels in Thailand since 2002.

Positives for employing Thais:

1 - They can speak Thai

Negatives:

1 - They cannot accept constructive criticism

2 - They cannot manage guest complaints in a positive manner

3 - They are lazy with bad time-keeping

4 - They have zero knowledge of other countries, their culture, general knowledge of anything outside Thailand

5 - They are often xenophobic or racist towards Indian and Arab customers

6 - They lack tact or discretion when handling guest matters that should be treated in confidence

7 - Their English language skills are typically poor

8 ... 100 - on request

Of course, if I were to employ a Thai manager from a 5-star hotel, then probably none of the above would apply. But their salary would no doubt be far higher than I could justify.

I have worked with many Filipino/a staff. In general, their attitude to work, especially service/hospitality work is light years above that of an equivalent Thai.

Sorry for this generalization, and sorry if the truth hurts! My business is to provide a good service to mainly non-Thai guests, and a Thai manager simply doesn't 'cut it'.

Agree with you Simon, but have you considered the following

1. How would your manager(Filipino) communicate with local staff and get them to do their work? Thais do not really respect Filipino's

2. Who would do all the purchasing and dealing with local suppliers? even just the handy man

3. WP, Visa and their minimum salary would not be cheap, and you must have 4 Thai staff.

4. Being Filipino does not automatically mean knowing geography.

5. After they received complaint, how would you expect her to manage it when she can not explain it to local staff and local staff could not care less?

Just some point for you to think about

[mikeskibb]

By employing filipinos who speak thai.... it is not only some farangs like yourself who can speak thai , talaga !

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[Pralaad]

By employing filipinos who speak thai.... it is not only some farangs like yourself who can speak thai , talaga !

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Fck me , stop with the nonsense already.

Hardly any Filipinos speak fluent or passable Thai, i am yet to meet one in 7 years and i get at least 10 asking for a job weekly.

Just because one greeted you with Hello, in Thai, it does not mean they speak Thai.

Since you have so much knowledge and experience, why do not you tell OP how "EASY" it is to employ one legally and what costs are involved.

[mikeskibb]

I think the nonsense is to say that there are no filipinos who can speak thai. Based on your logic we could also say that there are no farang that can either.... as what is the percentage of farang looking fir a job in Thailand that CAN speak fluent thai?

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[Pralaad]

I think the nonsense is to say that there are no filipinos who can speak thai. Based on your logic we could also say that there are no farang that can either.... as what is the percentage of farang looking fir a job in Thailand that CAN speak fluent thai?

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Putting aside the regurgitated drivel

How easy is it to employ one and what are the costs?

PS. Seen many farang employees at the front desk of hotels?

[mikeskibb]

The question could be properly answered by someone who EMPLOYS a filipino/a as a hotel manager/ receptionist, better than by yourself anyway.

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[Pralaad]

The question could be properly answered by someone who EMPLOYS a filipino/a as a hotel manager/ receptionist, better than by yourself anyway.

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In other words you do not have a clue and just trolled for 2 pages for the sake of trolling?

[mikeskibb]

You dont seem to have much of a clue yourself.... where is your answer to the original question???? You started by denying that there were ever any filipino employed in thailand. I say there are. I give examples of where. Maybe the man who asked the question in the first place now knows at least that some hotels employ filipinos as front desk staff.... so you stop trolling... and give the man a constructive answer instead....

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[Pralaad]

You dont seem to have much of a clue yourself.... where is your answer to the original question???? You started by denying that there were ever any filipino employed in thailand. I say there are. I give examples of where. Maybe the man who asked the question in the first place now knows at least that some hotels employ filipinos as front desk staff.... so you stop trolling... and give the man a constructive answer instead....

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Just for you,, after reading it, go troll somewhere else.

Minimum salary of 35 000 baht per month

2 000 000 baht capital

4 Thai employees

WP costs and Non B costs

Another alternative

Person employing must be paying 50,000 baht personal income tax per year. This 'someone" can be a foreigner with a work permit or a Thai national. This foreigner or Thai does not need to have a company. For every 50,000 tax paid per year, up to three people can be employed. Example: you paid 200,000 baht in tax last year you can employ three foreigners.

Proof of this income is the last three months of Phor Ngor Dor.1 (Personal Income tax form filed on a monthly basis) and Phor Ngor Dor.91 ( Filed on a yearly basis in March)

Cost of this is around 30 000 baht per year in government fees, plus whatever lawyers will charge for all the work, First year expect to pay around double that

This alternative is used to get WP for Filipino nannies, but MIGHT apply for a manager also

Edited July 11, 2014 by Pralaad

[richard10365]

Hi Simon.....I'm writing a thesis about this very topic for my MBA. I will try to answer your question as best I can. Please keep in mind, I don't have all the answers yet as Thai labor laws have yet to change but I can tell you in theory how it is suppose to work starting around May, 2015. This is also Part 1 of my answer to you. Part 2 will include some of the abilities ASEAN expects a Front Office Manager to have. It might be more than what you are looking for but I know the Philippines have already started training on this. Answering your question helps me to understand my topic better.

Thailand signed the ASEAN Mutual Recognition Arrangement for Tourism Professionals (MRA-TP) on 9 November, 2012, which goes into effect in 2015. This will allow skilled foreign ASEAN Tourism Professionals (TP) to immigration into or emigration from, an ASEAN country to compete for skilled tourism jobs.

Mutual Recognition Arrangements (MRAs) are arrangements between two or more parties to mutually recognize or accept some or all aspects of one another’s conformity assessment results (e.g. test reports and certificates of compliance). The World Trade Organization’s (WTO) Article VII of the General Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) makes possible the MRA-TP. Paragraph one states "members may recognize the education or experience obtained, requirements met, or license or certifications granted in a particular country."

The ASEAN MRA-TP will enable ASEAN countries to recognize skills and ASEAN qualifications of the ASEAN TP to enhance their labor mobility throughout ASEAN. The end effect is a regionally competitive market for skilled tourism labor able to fill ASEAN skilled tourism labor shortages.

ASEAN Mutual Recognition Arrangements are created and designed using the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) and the the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC). This should sound familiar to most people as this is the same organization that certify's business with the ISO 9000, 14,000, 19,000, and 26,000 series of quality management.

The MRA-TP is designed to award qualifications in the form of a certificate to ASEAN TP in one of 32 different jobs in 6 labor divisions.

The labor divisions are (1) Front Office, (2) House Keeping, (3) Food Production, (4) Food and Beverage Services, (5) Travel Agencies, (6) Tour Operation.

Based on the information you provided in your opening post, a hotel manager would fall under the labor division Front Office. There are 5 jobs in this labor division: (1) Bell Boy, (2) Telephone Operator, (3) Receptionist, (4) Front Office Supervisor, (5) Front Office Manager

There are two ways to get the competency based certificate: (1) Take a class and then a test to demonstrate competency and (2) take the test and show you already have the required skills.

An office designated by the government in the Philippines will administer the test and issue the certificate. There will be a website by ASEAN for ASEAN TPs to upload their ASEAN TP qualifications. Tourism Organizations (TO) will be able to register on this website to look for labor through out ASEAN to fill shortages in their TOs. Once the TO finds the TP they feel is the best candidate for their TO, they set up an interview and either accept or reject the applicant. Immigration will then fast track the visa and the labor department will do the same for the work permit based on host country laws and the MRA-TP.

That is the really simple explanation of the process. For the TP, the process is harder as they need to obtain all the ASEAN qualification in order to have their information uploaded to the ASEAN website.

To be continued...

[jbaldwin]

I am the Chairman of a condo in Pattaya. We interviewed a filipina for a recent vacancy as Assistant Manager. She was a business graduate with experience in call centre dealing with US customers. In my opinion her ability to deal properly with queries from our, mainly falang, owners would have been far better than any Thai candidate. Her salary in her last job in the Philppines was slightly more than half the salary we finally offered to the Thai who is now doing the job.

The main reason we did not recruit that filipina was that she would not be able to speak in Thai to suppliers. Initial advice we had from lawyers was that there would be no difficulties (but costs) in obtaining a work permit.

Our Condo manager had worked with a filipina before - a receptionist when she was front office manager in a hotel.

[mikeskibb]

Thanks for that info...

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[richard10365]

Part 2:

Below are the functional competencies involved in the Front Office labor division. For each competency are extremely detailed Trainee Guides, Trainer Manuals, Assessor Manuals and a complete set of PowerPoint slides to teach the class. It's amazing the attention to detail ASEAN has put into these books. Best of all, they are all downloadable for free on the ASEAN website.

Each of the 6 labor division has 5 qualification levels. Based on the original design, Certificate 2 incorporates certificate 1 because the ASEAN countries felt certificate 1 was too simple. This obviously means level 5 is the most advanced. The divisions are as follows:

• Certificate II in Front Office (Incorporating Certificate I)
• Certificate III in Front Office
• Certificate IV in Front Office (Guest Services Supervision)
• Diploma of Front Office (Supervision and Administration)
• Advanced Diploma of Front Office (Management)

There are also Common Core and Generic Competencies but I didn't list them here. These are basic classes which all labor divisions must take.

I do apologize in advance because I know this is a little confusing. If you have any questions please ask. I will do my best to answer.

Front Office Manager Functional Competencies

1 Establish and maintain a safe and secure workplace

2 Manage quality customer/guest services

3 Prepare and monitor operational budgets

4 Manage financial performance within a budget

5 Manage stock purchases and inventories

6 Manage legal requirements for business compliance

7 Establish and maintain a business relationship

8 Monitor and manage workplace relations and diversity

9 Manage the effective use of human resources

10 Recruit and select staff

11 Monitor staff performance standards

12 Conduct a staff performance assessment process

13 Prepare and deliver training sessions

14 Conduct training for a small group

15 Monitor and evaluate the effectiveness of training outcomes

16 Plan, manage and conduct meetings

17 Maintain financial standards and records

18 Plan and conduct an evacuation of premises

19 Plan and establish systems and procedures

20 Read and write English at an advanced level

Front Office Supervisor Functional Competencies

1 Provide accommodation services

2 Receive and process reservations

3 Operate a computerised reservation system

4 Process a financial transaction for services rendered

5 Maintain a paper-based filing and retrieval system

6 Process transactions for purchase of goods or services

7 Maintain guests' financial records

8 Prepare routine financial statements

9 Establish and maintain a safe and secure workplace

10 Manage quality customer/guest services

11 Receive and securely store in-coming goods

12 Monitor and manage workplace relations and diversity

13 Roster staff

14 Monitor routine workplace operations

15 Coach others in job skills

16 Provide for the safety of VIPs

17 Manage intoxicated persons

18 Conduct a night audit

19 Maintain financial standards and records

Receptionist Functional Competencies Front Office Attendant

1 Provide accommodation services

2 Receive and process reservations

3 Process a financial transaction for services rendered

4 Maintain a paper-based filing and retrieval system

5 Process transactions for purchase of goods or services

6 Maintain guests' financial records

7 Prepare routine financial statements

Telephone Operator Functional Competencies Telephonist

1 Operate a (PABX) switchboard Switchboard Operator

2 Receive and place in-coming phone calls

3 Facilitate out-going phone calls

4 Provide information about in-house services

5 Provide international (IDD) service information

Bell Boy Functional Competencies Porter

1 Provide Bell Boy / Porter services Concierge

2 Provide a lost and found facility Bellhop

3 Escort, carry and store valuable items

4 Provide a lost and found facility

Edited July 11, 2014 by richard10365

[Tiri]

Try visiting Rembrandt Hotel Lobby. Try ordering some beer or wine and you'll be surprised that you have a wrong idea about Filipinos. This one is certainly legal. He's there for quite sometime now. Not only he can speak Thai , he speaks Spanish too and could be other Filipino languages too, not only Tagalog. AND IF YOU LIKE JAZZ MUSIC, you'll be ashamed not to leave him a handsome tip when you finally go home or on the middle of your favourite song.

RELAX AND LISTEN TO HIM , IF YOU LOVE JAZZ.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Tiri

[mikeskibb]

You made my day...

Did you hear that Pralaad troller??? A Filipino who speaks thai??? Working in a hotel ? In Thailand... where have you been???

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[JLCrab]

Simon (maybe) says: Thanks for all the helpful suggestions but I really just wanted to let you all know that I will soon be opening a new hotel near the Phuket airport with or without a Filipina manager.

[simon43]

Well. that information from Richard was certainly most interesting.....

The ability for the Filipino/a Manager to speak Thai is not high on my list, since my family staff do speak at least 10 words of English, as do I. The role would be mainly interfacing with the guests, not with the 'back office'.

As for the number of Filipino/as who can speak good Thai, I am sure it is similar to those 'Westerners' who also speak good Thai ==> not so common, but certainly not rare for anyone who has lived in Thailand for a few years.

I speak good Thai, and read/write it as well. Along the way, I have learnt to read/write and speak reasonable Lao, French and some Burmese. My Italian and German are rusty and I am just learning conversational Mandarin right now

It is not hard if you are a 'professional' with the interests of your guests in mind.

Simon

[mikeskibb]

Well said and to the point Simon. Good luck.

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[CiaranO]

I'm a resort manager and I can tell u for sure that in our six hotels we have many Filipinos working at the front desk. It's very common due to their excellence English language skills.

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[Pralaad]

I'm a resort manager and I can tell u for sure that in our six hotels we have many Filipinos working at the front desk. It's very common due to their excellence English language skills.

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And they all have WP with appropriate visa?

[richard10365]

Well. that information from Richard was certainly most interesting.....

Simon

It was the answer to your original question for the MRA-TP.....however, the Asean Framework Agreement of Services (AFAS) might have an option that might work. Under Mode 4 access (Presence of Natural Persons), the 8th round of AFAS negations produced the following Hotel Lodging Services (CPC 64110) agreement for Thailand:

HORIZONTAL COMMITMENTS:

Temporary movement of natural persons is unbound except in the following categories:

I. Business Visitor : A natural person who stays in Thailand for the purpose of participating in business meetings or contacts, entering into contract to sell or purchase services, visiting of business establishments or other similar activities and entering with a purpose to establish a commercial presence in Thailand. Such temporary entry will be permitted for an initial period of not more than 90 days and may be extended for a further period of not more than one year.

[ubonjoe]

Two bickering posts removed. Please keep it civil.