Israel prepares for ground military operation, 98 dead in Gaza Strip airstrikes

[Jingthing]

Hamas also does that for propaganda purposes of course ... to gain sympathy in the larger world. That effort has been effective.

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

Only one problem with all that. There is barely a smidgen of truth in his post and lots of unjustified anger which could be easily construed as hate. Geography is far from his only error.

 
What he said and what I said is about as certifiable as what you are saying. Being able to support what we are all saying depends upon the character of the person, and his or her willingness to focus on an implied or suggested truth, or to focus on refuting that implied or suggested truth, whilst resisting the temptation to digress into ad hominem argumentum.
 
I can't explain why, but when this "hate" crap accusation flies in my face, I get the same feeling as I would imagine a lunatic waving a gun in my face at my merest suggestion of mentioning that his pants are on backwards; and in fact, they are. It has nothing to do with me hating lunatics, yet it is part and parcel for a lunatic to avoid the obvious and focus on avoidance and narcissistic mannerisms.
 
Considering the ramifications of what could happen to the accused when one screams hate, or antisemitism (from a large demographic of non-Semitic people who somehow have it in their minds that they have Semitic genes), it is, as I stated in the prior paragraph as similar as that; a lunatic going off on the slightest of slights and waving a gun in my face.
 
I can understand that a post like his might conjure visions of hate in your mind, but I do not believe that you are that obtuse and weak minded that you would seriously expect me to be convinced or persuaded that you are truly offended; you... an objective and intelligent person.
 
A charade? A ruse? More than likely.
 
So, what a normal person might do in this case is simply disagree and dispense with implications of ludicrous and unprovable thoughts and intentions. That never ever seems to be the case with this topic, and ONLY this topic. Disagree about the Titanic? No problem. Disagree about Atlantis? No problem. But this? Oy Vay!
 
Flashing these trump cards as a first/last effort when a truth is suggested is really getting nauseating, especially when the ones doing it have more than adequately demonstrated a high level of intelligence that logically cannot accommodate narcissistic, paranoid and delusional thinking.
 
Prove to me a present day state of victim hood. Prove that your behaviors are such that they demonstrate a method that would not get your face punched in or a rock thrown at you were you to exercise these behaviors in any other part of the world... say, the Foundation Stone to have been in Norway, or Canada, or the Red Square.
 
Tyranny creates a behavior that is similar to terrorism. Terrorism is another word used as an excuse to murder those we goad to this form of behavior. This behavior could also be interpreted as defending ones land and loved ones. This is simply one of many ways to view it, and I will let myself be the one to interpret that.
 
Translated: don't piss down my back and tell me it's rain, and then accuse me of hating you if I disagree. That might work in the playground with the kids, but it doesn't work with intelligent people, who understand the basic rules of decent and legitimate conversation, debate or disagreeing.

 

You have posted a lot, only said nothing.

How about just come out and say what you want to say

 

He really did say nothing - to support another post that was pretty much complete nonsense. 

Edited July 12, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

The actions of Israel and their allies the US (who is controlled as we know by Jews) show clearly that they are the ones who are the Terrorists. They are in power and do no but really no step towards reconciliation at all. Why do hundreds of Palestiniens need to die in retiliation for 3 dead Israelis. Why this excess? Why treat the Palestiniens as worth less than dogs for years? A little gesture would certainly be helpful to ease the anger on the side of the Palestiniens. But no, we are the ones in power and if we want to kill hundred thousands in retiliation for 3 dead of us we will do it! Fuck Israeli and the US!

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

 

Terror groups or freedom fighters ?

"Terrorism is the deliberate use of violence aimed against civilians in order to achieve political ends."

Hamas are a terrorist group. They purposely target innocent civilians.

 

 

Something Israel with the help of the US is of course not doing, right? The fact is that you need to call both sides Terrorists including the US!

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

Terror groups or freedom fighters ?

"Terrorism is the deliberate use of violence aimed against civilians in order to achieve political ends."

Hamas are a terrorist group. They purposely target innocent civilians.

 

 
Something Israel with the help of the US is of course not doing, right?

 

Right. Israel does not target civilians. Hamas DOES. You really should read the rest of the thread before responding.

[Ulysses G.]

The actions of Israel and their allies the US (who is controlled as we know by Jews)

Thanks for letting everyone know exactly where you are coming from.

[Pattszero]

The usual dribble about Palestinians.

 

Forged on the rock of certitude.

 

That they had no territorial rights in the first place.

 

It's a terrible delusion.

 

That five million Europeans thought they could descend like locusts.

 

And evict the indigenous population, at the point of a gun.

 

And not be content with the land they first had handed to them. 

 

They grabbed more, ever more. 

 

These people who have no territorial claim. 

 

Beyond a fairy story written three thousand years ago, 

 

 

[ggold]

 

 

 

Only one problem with all that. There is barely a smidgen of truth in his post and lots of unjustified anger which could be easily construed as hate. Geography is far from his only error.

 
What he said and what I said is about as certifiable as what you are saying. Being able to support what we are all saying depends upon the character of the person, and his or her willingness to focus on an implied or suggested truth, or to focus on refuting that implied or suggested truth, whilst resisting the temptation to digress into ad hominem argumentum.
 
I can't explain why, but when this "hate" crap accusation flies in my face, I get the same feeling as I would imagine a lunatic waving a gun in my face at my merest suggestion of mentioning that his pants are on backwards; and in fact, they are. It has nothing to do with me hating lunatics, yet it is part and parcel for a lunatic to avoid the obvious and focus on avoidance and narcissistic mannerisms.
 
Considering the ramifications of what could happen to the accused when one screams hate, or antisemitism (from a large demographic of non-Semitic people who somehow have it in their minds that they have Semitic genes), it is, as I stated in the prior paragraph as similar as that; a lunatic going off on the slightest of slights and waving a gun in my face.
 
I can understand that a post like his might conjure visions of hate in your mind, but I do not believe that you are that obtuse and weak minded that you would seriously expect me to be convinced or persuaded that you are truly offended; you... an objective and intelligent person.
 
A charade? A ruse? More than likely.
 
So, what a normal person might do in this case is simply disagree and dispense with implications of ludicrous and unprovable thoughts and intentions. That never ever seems to be the case with this topic, and ONLY this topic. Disagree about the Titanic? No problem. Disagree about Atlantis? No problem. But this? Oy Vay!
 
Flashing these trump cards as a first/last effort when a truth is suggested is really getting nauseating, especially when the ones doing it have more than adequately demonstrated a high level of intelligence that logically cannot accommodate narcissistic, paranoid and delusional thinking.
 
Prove to me a present day state of victim hood. Prove that your behaviors are such that they demonstrate a method that would not get your face punched in or a rock thrown at you were you to exercise these behaviors in any other part of the world... say, the Foundation Stone to have been in Norway, or Canada, or the Red Square.
 
Tyranny creates a behavior that is similar to terrorism. Terrorism is another word used as an excuse to murder those we goad to this form of behavior. This behavior could also be interpreted as defending ones land and loved ones. This is simply one of many ways to view it, and I will let myself be the one to interpret that.
 
Translated: don't piss down my back and tell me it's rain, and then accuse me of hating you if I disagree. That might work in the playground with the kids, but it doesn't work with intelligent people, who understand the basic rules of decent and legitimate conversation, debate or disagreeing.

 

You have posted a lot, only said nothing.

How about just come out and say what you want to say

 

He really did say nothing - to support another post that was pretty much complete nonsense. 

 

 

I think he is being, to quote "obtuse" and "weak" minded. Talks about not attacking the poster, but does the same! Since when does having an opinion of a post constitute an attack on the poster? Oh and by the way it is not rain! It is someone pissing down his back.

 

[Jingthing]

The usual dribble about Palestinians.

 

Forged on the rock of certitude.

 

That they had no territorial rights in the first place.

 

It's a terrible delusion.

 

That five million Europeans thought they could descend like locusts.

 

And evict the indigenous population, at the point of a gun.

 

And not be content with the land they first had handed to them. 

 

They grabbed more, ever more. 

 

These people who have no territorial claim. 

 

Beyond a fairy story written three thousand years ago, 

 

 

So much there is wrong but to start ...

Arabs immediately waged war upon the U.N. action to create Israel ... you expected the Jews to just cave?

Jews of Israel are VERY diverse origin.

Western Europe

Eastern Europe

Latin America

North America

THE MIDDLE EAST and North Africa! (many were expelled from there forcefully)

Africa (ETHIOPIA)

Yes, even some from China

Edited July 12, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

These people who have no territorial claim. 
 
Beyond a fairy story written three thousand years ago,

That and the fact that they have been living there for more than 3,700 years, that the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and that the Jewish people settled and developed the land - as well as winning 4 or 5 wars against overwhelming odds.

[Baerboxer]

 

 

 

As usual Israel and its great army are doing war against civilians . Reminder , this state is occupying for more than 50 years and stealing land from another country , it does not respect even  basic international laws , it wants to completely annex palestine and does want peace at all, other wise it will not continue to steel land to make new settlements.The result is an apartheid system with ghettos like gaza which has and will have a boomerang effect.

Its lobby is so powerful that they never get international sanctions and are not sue for crime against humanity.

 

 

There is no Palestine. It was a mandated British territory no more. Jordan doesn't lay claim to the West Bank, So Israel has every right to build on those lands. You also seem to forget that even Egypt is not interested in supporting Hamas. And Abbas has said Hamas are wrong. If Israel were waging war on the civilians, there would be a lot more deaths than have been reported. They would not bother with clinical strikes they would bomb the whole area. It is Hamas that are waging war on their own civilians, by using them as human shields.  But I guess it's OK for Arab to kill Arab as in Syria. 

 

 

I would also say, considering Hamas want to destroy Israel, If it were not as strong as it is, It would be Israeli women and children who would be slaughtered. How can it be a crime against Humanity to fight and stop terrorists?

 

 

Hey come on. Even Obama called on Israel to stop allowing more illegal settlements.

 

Fighting terrorists - absolutely agree with you. But there has to be some rules. Or do you suggest anything goes? 

 

Countries should abide by certain internationally agreed rules, and there are limits to what is acceptable.

 

Would you have been so supportive if Britain had adopted the same tactics in Ireland, or the Spanish in their Basque country?

 

Hamas cannot be expected to be treated as a serious political party whilst they call for the destruction of Israel. Anyone engaging in terrorist activities must expect to be killed. But, the acceptable collateral damage and the tactics employed are debatable.

 

 

I am sure if you asked an Irishman, he would probably say the british did worse, The potato Famine and  colonisation. Even bringing Scottish protestants to control Ireland. It's just that the British have had a few years to paper over their atrocities!

 

It also seems that Israel is expected to accept a terrorist nation on it's door step. Name another country that has or would accept such a situation. The Palestinian question is as much the making of surrounding arab nations  as it was anything to do with the occupation of East Jerusalem or West Bank. So let the Arabs absorb these stateless peoples.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure Israel will manage to paper over all it's atrocities too, just give them time. It's a trait of all countries. At the moment they're quiet happy to simply tell the rest of the world to bugger off. 

 

The Belgians had the worst reputation among the colonials - chopping hands off and kidnapping the wives of workers who failed to hit quotas. The French, British, Americans, Russians, Japanese, Chines, all have their skeletons in the cupboard. So what. Does that justify Israel acting how it pleases?

 

Israel has been attacked from all sides and has every right to protect itself. However, it does not have the right to exterminate all who oppose it by any means it sees fit. There has to be some rules. Similarly, look at the very revealing maps of Palestinian and Israeli land areas since 1946 posted by another poster. Quite revealing.

 

The arabs were wrong to try and destroy Israel at its founding and to permit and facilitate terrorist attacks from their lands. That does not mean it's right for Israel to do as it pleases either. 

 

Why should Israel or any country expect to be able to seize land from others? Why should other countries be expected to give people their land so Israel can take more land over. 

[Ulysses G.]

look at the very revealing maps of Palestinian and Israeli land areas since 1946 posted by another poster. Quite revealing.

That map has already been discredited by Morch. Very little of that land was controlled by Palestinian Arabs - ever!

In 1947 the area was under the British Mandate. So the left hand map would be misleading.  It was not all under Palestinian ownership even, not to mention rule.  Kinda funny from a website with the word "truth" in its title...

How about this one. It is actually based on factual information.
 
Edited July 12, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[up-country_sinclair]

Israel does not target civilians.

 

The body count and the EU essentially say otherwise.  Soon enough the UN will also have a vote in which the majority of the world's nations will say otherwise.  

 

It's up over 100 killed now, isn't it?  At the very least, Israel is indifferent to all the children they are murdering. 

 

Israel is the rogue entity in this equation. 

 

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

As I said before. Please read the whole thread that you are replying to. This has already been covered extensively.
 

Israel is targeting Hamas terrorists that are shooting hundreds of rockets into civilian areas of Israel and they are warning civilians to leave the area before they do it. They drop pamphlets, make phone calls to the occupants of buildings and drop a warning missile first to warn everyone that a real bomb is next. In fact, Israel does everything they can to avoid civilian casualties - while the Palestinians target civilians on purpose.
What other country would take these measures when combating vicious terrorists that have been elected and supported by the very civilians that they are hiding behind?

 

The proof is there.
Hamas uses human shields to stop the IDF to hit them.
Which in fact is a warcrime.
Bastards!

 
Indeed. The Hamas leadership in Gaza is ordering Palestinians to stay in their homes even if they are warned by the Israel Defense Forces to get out before their neighborhood is bombed. The goal of these actions is to create confusion among the citizens, the Hamas ministry has said and has instructed all citizens to not heed these messages from Israel.
 
 
The IDF has published photographic evidence of the use of human shields by Hamas.
In a screenshot of a television broadcast from July 8, civilians gather on the roof of the home of a Hamas terrorist who was targeted by the IDF. They did so in order to act as human shields and deter an imminent IDF attack, explained the military blog.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/182716#.U8CtPeW7ffI

 

More from this very thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741979-israel-prepares-for-ground-military-operation-98-dead-in-gaza-strip-airstrikes/?p=8089686

Edited July 12, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[up-country_sinclair]

As I said before. Please read the whole thread that are replying to. This has already been covered extensively.
 

1). "As usual Israel and its great army are doing war against civilians."

Israel is targeting Hamas terrorists that are shooting hundreds of rockets into civilian areas of Israel and they are warning civilians to leave the area before they do it. They drop pamphlets, make phone calls to the occupants of buildings and drop a warning missile first to warn everyone that a real bomb is next. In fact, Israel does everything they can to avoid civilian casualties - while the Palestinians target civilians on purpose.
What other country would take these measures when combating vicious terrorists that have been elected and supported by the very civilians that they are hiding behind?

 

 

Endlessly repeating well crafted propaganda doesn't make it true. 

 

By the way, does anyone know when the UN will be having a vote on Israeli war crimes?
 

[Ulysses G.]

 

As I said before. Please read the whole thread that are replying to. This has already been covered extensively.
 

1). "As usual Israel and its great army are doing war against civilians."

Israel is targeting Hamas terrorists that are shooting hundreds of rockets into civilian areas of Israel and they are warning civilians to leave the area before they do it. They drop pamphlets, make phone calls to the occupants of buildings and drop a warning missile first to warn everyone that a real bomb is next. In fact, Israel does everything they can to avoid civilian casualties - while the Palestinians target civilians on purpose.
What other country would take these measures when combating vicious terrorists that have been elected and supported by the very civilians that they are hiding behind?

 

 
Endlessly repeating well crafted propaganda doesn't make it true.

 

How about numerous media reports, photos and video evidence? I guess they don't count either.

[ggold]

 

 

 

 

There is no Palestine. It was a mandated British territory no more. Jordan doesn't lay claim to the West Bank, So Israel has every right to build on those lands. You also seem to forget that even Egypt is not interested in supporting Hamas. And Abbas has said Hamas are wrong. If Israel were waging war on the civilians, there would be a lot more deaths than have been reported. They would not bother with clinical strikes they would bomb the whole area. It is Hamas that are waging war on their own civilians, by using them as human shields.  But I guess it's OK for Arab to kill Arab as in Syria. 

 

 

I would also say, considering Hamas want to destroy Israel, If it were not as strong as it is, It would be Israeli women and children who would be slaughtered. How can it be a crime against Humanity to fight and stop terrorists?

 

 

Hey come on. Even Obama called on Israel to stop allowing more illegal settlements.

 

Fighting terrorists - absolutely agree with you. But there has to be some rules. Or do you suggest anything goes? 

 

Countries should abide by certain internationally agreed rules, and there are limits to what is acceptable.

 

Would you have been so supportive if Britain had adopted the same tactics in Ireland, or the Spanish in their Basque country?

 

Hamas cannot be expected to be treated as a serious political party whilst they call for the destruction of Israel. Anyone engaging in terrorist activities must expect to be killed. But, the acceptable collateral damage and the tactics employed are debatable.

 

 

I am sure if you asked an Irishman, he would probably say the british did worse, The potato Famine and  colonisation. Even bringing Scottish protestants to control Ireland. It's just that the British have had a few years to paper over their atrocities!

 

It also seems that Israel is expected to accept a terrorist nation on it's door step. Name another country that has or would accept such a situation. The Palestinian question is as much the making of surrounding arab nations  as it was anything to do with the occupation of East Jerusalem or West Bank. So let the Arabs absorb these stateless peoples.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure Israel will manage to paper over all it's atrocities too, just give them time. It's a trait of all countries. At the moment they're quiet happy to simply tell the rest of the world to bugger off. 

 

The Belgians had the worst reputation among the colonials - chopping hands off and kidnapping the wives of workers who failed to hit quotas. The French, British, Americans, Russians, Japanese, Chines, all have their skeletons in the cupboard. So what. Does that justify Israel acting how it pleases?

 

Israel has been attacked from all sides and has every right to protect itself. However, it does not have the right to exterminate all who oppose it by any means it sees fit. There has to be some rules. Similarly, look at the very revealing maps of Palestinian and Israeli land areas since 1946 posted by another poster. Quite revealing.

 

The arabs were wrong to try and destroy Israel at its founding and to permit and facilitate terrorist attacks from their lands. That does not mean it's right for Israel to do as it pleases either. 

 

Why should Israel or any country expect to be able to seize land from others? Why should other countries be expected to give people their land so Israel can take more land over. 

 

 

How far back do you want to go? When the colonial powers kicked out the Ottoman empire, they proceeded to divide the middle eastern countries between themselves. The Brits gave Palestine to the Jews.  In The 1948 war of independence, The Grand Mufti told the Arabs to leave, they would return with a big army and push the Jews into the sea!

 

IMO, The Arabs refused to take responsibility for the Arabs of Israel because They would use the Palestinians as a way Justify their aims towards Israel. That is why there are refugee camps in countries surrounding Israel. Not because Israel kicked out the Arabs, as some would claim. Try to understand that until the State of Israel was founded, the Arabs were stateless. It was British Mandated Palestine. It was controlled by them, there was no national government that could be called Palestinian. There never was. Prior to that there was no Palestine.

 

3 wars later and the Arabs did not succeed in kicking the Jews into the sea, They nearly succeeded in the October war, But again they were out manoeuvred by Israel. Since 1973 The peace with Egypt and Jordan have sidelined the Palestinian question. Jordan was the only Arab country to absorb the Palestinians, and most of its citizens are Palestinian. It would make more sense for the Palestinians to be part of Jordan, Than end up relying on Israel to support it as a second state. The reality is a Palestinian state would not be viable. it would be a failed state if left to it's own devices. It would need Israeli willingness to succeed as a state.

 

It is interesting that on the face of it Arab countries are demanding a Palestinian state! Or is this just Lip service now. The situation in the middle east is one of Arab Killing Arab in the name of Islam. Israel's enemies of old are talking with Israel in regard to Iran, Egypt is worried about Hamas.Then there is Syria and Iraq.

 

The point is the Palestinians were a tool for other Arab nations to beat Israel with. Maybe that Priority is no longer, because those nations seem to be fighting for survival, or worried about their Arab neighbours intentions.

 

You are right Israel should have kicked them out long ago. The Palestinians should have accepted what was offered long ago. But their agenda is still one of wanting all of Israel for their own. On that basis I don't see a Palestinian state being  created. It may well be that when the Wall along the west Bank is completed Israel will tell them, they are on their own. Just don't think of attacking Israel.

 

 

It is interesting to note that the Arab spring has not been about Israel. Some have mentioned ISIS. I really don't think ISIS are interested in attacking Israel. They want their fundamental Islamic caliphate more. And Syria Jordan and Lebanon know better than to let them come close to the Israeli boarder. 

[up-country_sinclair]

Israel is now dropping bombs on charitable organizations for the disabled. 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/israel-continues-gaza-bombardment-pushing-death-toll-past-120

 

Just when you think it couldn't get any more despicable,

[Pattszero]

 

The usual dribble about Palestinians.

 

Forged on the rock of certitude.

 

That they had no territorial rights in the first place.

 

It's a terrible delusion.

 

That five million Europeans thought they could descend like locusts.

 

And evict the indigenous population, at the point of a gun.

 

And not be content with the land they first had handed to them. 

 

They grabbed more, ever more. 

 

These people who have no territorial claim. 

 

Beyond a fairy story written three thousand years ago, 

 

 

So much there is wrong but to start ...

Arabs immediately waged war upon the U.N. action to create Israel ... you expected the Jews to just cave?

Jews of Israel are VERY diverse origin.

Western Europe

Eastern Europe

Latin America

North America

THE MIDDLE EAST and North Africa! (many were expelled from there forcefully)

Africa (ETHIOPIA)

Yes, even some from China

 

 

The vast majority of the original settlers were European, 

 

To argue otherwise is to lie to oneself. 

 

Are you amazed that the Arabs objected?

 

To the imposition of white foreign settlers? 

 

Due to a fairy tale? 

[Pralaad]

Israel is now dropping bombs on charitable organizations for the disabled. 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/israel-continues-gaza-bombardment-pushing-death-toll-past-120

 

Just when you think it couldn't get any more despicable,

 

When Hamas starts to target nuclear reactors and international airports? is that despicable in your books or business as usual?

[up-country_sinclair]

 

Israel is now dropping bombs on charitable organizations for the disabled. 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/israel-continues-gaza-bombardment-pushing-death-toll-past-120

 

Just when you think it couldn't get any more despicable,

 

When Hamas starts to target nuclear reactors and international airports? is that despicable in your books or business as usual?

 

 

Why are you posting about imagined fantasies?

 

I posted a link to an atrocity committed by Israel within the last 24 hours.  And yet you've chosen not to comment on it.  Not even to express sympathy for the killed or injured.
 

[Pattszero]

If ISIS gains traction and statehood,

 

There is nothing more certain

 

Than the fact

 

That they will then turn against Israel. 

 

If ISIS topple's the Assad regime. 

 

It will be a sickening blow to Israel. 

........................................

 

In saying that I predict defeat for ISIS. 

 

They are too dangerous to to many interests. 

[Ulysses G.]

Israel is now dropping bombs on charitable organizations for the disabled.

 
When Hamas starts to target nuclear reactors and international airports? is that despicable in your books or business as usual?

 
Why are you posting about imagined fantasies?

They are not fantasies. It has already happened. You really need to read something impartial every once in a while.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/09/hamas-missiles-target-nuclear-facility-as-likelihood-of-israel-invasion-of-gaza-increases/

[ggold]

 

 

Israel is now dropping bombs on charitable organizations for the disabled. 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/israel-continues-gaza-bombardment-pushing-death-toll-past-120

 

Just when you think it couldn't get any more despicable,

 

When Hamas starts to target nuclear reactors and international airports? is that despicable in your books or business as usual?

 

 

Why are you posting about imagined fantasies?

 

I posted a link to an atrocity committed by Israel within the last 24 hours.  And yet you've chosen not to comment on it.  Not even to express sympathy for the killed or injured.
 

 

 

Why are you posting about imagined fantasies?

 

It's not imagined it is fact. Innocent deaths are a fact of war. Why would you express sympathy for the death of someone you don't know?
 

[techboy]

 

As usual Israel and its great army are doing war against civilians . Reminder , this state is occupying for more than 50 years and stealing land from another country , it does not respect even  basic international laws , it wants to completely annex palestine and does want peace at all, other wise it will not continue to steel land to make new settlements.The result is an apartheid system with ghettos like gaza which has and will have a boomerang effect.
Its lobby is so powerful that they never get international sanctions and are not sue for crime against humanity.
 

You need to catch up with current times . Israel does not build in Gaza , does not control Gaza , does not want Gaza .

Hamas is in control of Gaza , so your concerns of Gaza being turned into ghetto should be taken up with them and with brothers across the border in Egypt.

May be if Hamas spent all Iranian money on its people instead of financing their terror attacks than Gaza would not be a ghetto

If you going to post hatred at least make sure to have some factual information

 

Yeah, maybe history.  But also maybe this guy and his neighbors recently attended a khutbah in which some nut job with a foam flecked beard stood there in a raving fit of inflammatory propaganda and presented it as current events

[up-country_sinclair]

 

 

 

Israel is now dropping bombs on charitable organizations for the disabled.

 
When Hamas starts to target nuclear reactors and international airports? is that despicable in your books or business as usual?

 

 
Why are you posting about imagined fantasies?

 

They are not fantasies. It has already happened. You really need to read something impartial every once in a while.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/09/hamas-missiles-target-nuclear-facility-as-likelihood-of-israel-invasion-of-gaza-increases/

 

 

That article originated in The Telegraph, which decidedly not impartial when in comes to the ME, and particularly Israel.  And presumably that's why you selected.

 

And by the way, it's regrettable that you also haven't expressed the smallest amount of sympathy for the victims who were bombed at the charitable organization for the disabled.
 

[Pralaad]

 

 

Israel is now dropping bombs on charitable organizations for the disabled. 
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/israel-continues-gaza-bombardment-pushing-death-toll-past-120
 
Just when you think it couldn't get any more despicable,

 
When Hamas starts to target nuclear reactors and international airports? is that despicable in your books or business as usual?

 

 
Why are you posting about imagined fantasies?
 
I posted a link to an atrocity committed by Israel within the last 24 hours.  And yet you've chosen not to comment on it.  Not even to express sympathy for the killed or injured.

 

Sorry, i did not realize you did not follow the main stream news, Would you like a link to main stream news about nuclear and international airport targeting?

 

Do we have selective sympathy radar on? You OK with nuclear reactor being attacked, but not ok with so called charity's being bombed?

 

You ok with civilians being targeted with no warning or discretion at all, but not ok targeted responses received?

 

And finally, you are perfectly ok with Hamas using disabled charity as a rocket launching ground, but not ok with response to it?

 

Good to see you are a fair and rational person

[Ulysses G.]

And by the way, it's regrettable that you also haven't expressed the smallest amount of sympathy for the victims who were bombed at the charitable organization for the disabled.

Did it even happen? I have not found anything to verify it. It is a claim by some Palestinians with no other evidence that I can find. They have been known to exaggerate and outright lie about such things.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.  

 

[Morch]

 

Only one problem with all that. There is barely a smidgen of truth in his post and lots of unjustified anger which could be easily construed as hate. Pretty much every one of his points have been already been refuted on this forum in the last few days. Geography is far from his only error.

 

A somewhat complex problem as we know.

 

I respect Israel's right to exist, protect its territory and to enjoy peace.

 

However, allowing settlements and building on land which isn't theirs, blockading and prohibiting certain items, and  trying to restrict the rights of Palestinian's to be recognized as a country don't promote a peaceful settlement. It can't be all one way traffic - either way.

 

It must be very frustrating dealing with constant terrorist attacks and threats and especially having rockets fired at your cities. But, indiscriminate bombing, shooting, blowing up of property etc - somewhat reminiscent of tactics adopted by the Axis powers in WW2. Their failure to pacify conquered peoples was one of their downfalls. It smacks of revenge rather than prevention - you hit us, we'll hit harder. It is understandable to react like this and very difficult for anyone to propose a different reaction that will be successful. That does not make it right, nor is it likely to succeed in eliminating violence.

 

Israel has on occasion, often under great provocation, acted with a heavy hand and broken internationally recognized laws on occasions. There is no doubt that the powerful Jewish lobbies in  many countries especially the USA have prevented sanctions. Any other nation acting like this would have faced international wrath. But the attacks on Israel are also far more in number, frequency and often brutality. Makes understanding the never ending cycle easier,

 

Both sides have to change significantly. Israel must prevent those elements that steal land as if it's theirs. and support international convention. The Palestinians must recognize the rights of Israel to exist and respect those rights. This dispute has been stoked and manipulated by Islamic extremists for a long time, for their own agendas. Heaven help everyone if the loonies from ISIS get there. 

 

 

The blockade in place is relevant to the Gaza Strip, not to the West Bank. It has little to do with the Palestinians as a whole, as it was applied only in relation to the Hamas and its attacks. Said blockade is maintained by Egypt, who rarely gets much bad publicity over it as Israel does. The PA does its own share of blockading by refusing to transfer funds to officials working for the Hamas government. The Hamas government itself repeatedly made things worse by (in turns) refusing to deal with either the PA or Israel, which meant that at times even allowed supplies and goods had to go a roundabout way and pass a few hands before getting there. Then there's the fact that smuggling is a very lucrative business - estimates regarding how much Hamas makes out of sales and taxes placed on smuggled good run to some pretty impressive figures. Certain goods controlled (fertilizers, cement and metals to name a few) were continuously being used to promote Hamas's terrorist actions.  Removal of the blockade without guarantees or proper means of control would mean free flow of weapons to the Gaza Strip.

 

There are no Israeli settlements of presence in the Gaza Strip, yet most of the attacks on Israel originate from there. The PA got more to do with illegal (and yes, not much argument on this one) Israeli settlements, and is generally advocating a more diplomatic approach toward finding a solution to the conflict. Not saying this goes very successfully, but then its not as if the Hamas's violence got them anywhere - just that more people are getting hurt. Point being is that the current round is more to do with Hamas, rather than being a general Palestinian issue.

 

How does Israel restrict the rights of the Palestinians to be recognized as a country? With most of the UN members already recognizing Palestine on one level or another (Thailand too, btw), this is more about the PA choosing not to make a move, at least for now, on this front. If they decide to go for it, there seems to be little question that it will happen. There are some implications, which the PA is hesitant to face, not all of them necessarily to with Israel's military might. Going this way will also make the Palestinians bear much more legal responsibility for actions taken (for example, by Hamas) - not sure that they are up for that right now.

 

Indiscriminate shooting - got to be kidding. There is ample evidence that Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties. There is ample evidence Hamas uses civilians as shields, in more than one way. There is that sad fact that mistakes happen and that when armed conflict is taking place (especially in urban surroundings) innocents get hurt. Indiscriminate bombing, to be clear - would that be carpet bombing of the Gaza Strip? Or would it be rigging up a system to fire back an unguided rocket at Gaza for each one that is launched Israel's way? Does Hamas rockets count as discriminate shooting?

 

I think one main issue some posters are missing is that the Palestinians are not united. The Hamas does not represent all of the Palestinians or even the majority of the Palestinians. The fighting is limited to a specific area, which is controlled by the Hamas. Applying the whole of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to each and every instance manifested is bound to be a bit distracting and not very constructive.