12 months volunteering - What visa?

[trentboy2]

My girlfriend and I are coming to Thailand for up to 12 months in September. While there we will work on a number of volunteer projects, homestay, organic farms etc. we won't receiving on kind of salary but living off our savings.

Regarding visa, what's the best course of action?

Thanks in advance.

[paz]

That would be a Non-immigrant O visa, but would need to be sponsored by a specific organization, recognized by Thailand, support by a lot of paperwork, and subject to the final decision of a consulate first, and Thai immigration once you arrive in Thailand.

Any activity, paid or not, done outside the charter of such organization, or with other type of visa, and without additional authorization given by the appropriate authority, would be illegal and you would face deportation no matter how good you intentions are.

At least on this forum, you will not receive any "encouraging" answer, because this is the legal and true state of things in Thailand, sorry if that doesn't meet your expectations.

[paz]

Just wanted to add that since myself never did volunteering in Thailand, what I wrote above has been learned from other threads, for example

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/201175-volunteer-visa/

[enuff said]

.

You just can't show up here and spend a year flip-flopping around as freelance volunteers. All has to be planned in advance. WELL in advance.

I know that there are some hill-tribe orphanages, schools and such that organize this type of activity. Try google under "thailand volunteer oppertunities"

Beware that there are quite a few gray area companies who want to turn your good intentions into profits. I met an Aussie couple in Kanchanaburi. They were just out of college and had paid $2400 EACH (+ airfare) for 3 months of volunteer teaching. The money was supposed to be for "training" which was a ring binder and a video, "accommodations" which turned out to be free and provided by the school anyway, "western food": hot dogs and chicken nuggets, and "weekend side trips" to other destinations, BKK, beach etc., which were canceled more times than they happened.

Bearing in mind they only had tourist visas, they could have had BIG probs if they were found to be working as teachers, volunteer or not.

One more thing, there is a very short list of jobs that foreigners are allowed to do. Agriculture work is not among them. Unless you are a recognized expert in a field, the work must be done by Thai people.

'nuff said

~

[Lite Beer]

Make sure these organisations provide you with a Work Permit.

Without you would be working illegally.

[LukDod]

trentboy2...

The heed replies provided by others as they are correct!

Technically there are no exceptions.

In the immediate aftermath of the 2004 tsunami, there were many volunteers

who came to the affected areas to help, assisting in the clean-up and

assisting the injured and homeless.

Then Prime Minister Taksin followed the law and said anyone without a

work permit must cease working in area or face prosecution.

I'm a doctor who worked there over a month and was affiliated with a

well recognized Wat who went there with over 60 Thai's and truckloads of

supplies. I, too, was vulnerable, not having a work permit, but the Wat

and their Thai volunteers kept me in a low profile. I was fortunate as

there are _no_ exceptions to working without a permit.

[TerryLH]

"Then Prime Minister Taksin followed the law and said anyone without a

work permit must cease working in area or face prosecution."

Do you remember why they did that?

Immediately after the disaster volunteers were welcomed with open arms.

After a bit, it was realized that many volunteers were more of a problem than they were worth.

There was a lack of organization or structure, with many volunteers just 'doing their thing', which in many cases was a negative, rather than helpful.

[trentboy2]

Some great advice, thanks all. As I suspected it's going to be a bit of a tricky issue but there seem to be many whole are able to deal with it so I'm sure we'll be able to do the same.

I'm actually a qualified (CELTA) native English language teacher, I work freelance in Hungary right now. Do you think it would be worth applying for the type 'B' visa?

Also are the non-immigrant visas 30, 60, 90 days and how easy/difficult is it to get them extended to a year?

[paz]

Some great advice, thanks all. As I suspected it's going to be a bit of a tricky issue but there seem to be many whole are able to deal with it so I'm sure we'll be able to do the same.

I'm actually a qualified (CELTA) native English language teacher, I work freelance in Hungary right now. Do you think it would be worth applying for the type 'B' visa?

Same a 'O' type, you need a sponsoring school or company.

Also are the non-immigrant visas 30, 60, 90 days and how easy/difficult is it to get them extended to a year?

Generally 90 days and can be extended only you have all the necessary paperwork.

[taotoo]

but there seem to be many whole are able to deal with it so I'm sure we'll be able to do the same.

A lot of those people won't be dealing with it for much longer - things have changed.

[NanLaew]

If the OP isn't aware yet, maybe he can browse the other 'hot' threads on this sub-forum regarding the recent moves to actually enforce the visa regulations as they stand. There is a greater burden of proof being placed on the individual, not only on visa applications at Embassies and Consulates but much more importantly, by the Immigration officers at Thailand's entry points. The 'working vacation' be it volunteering or otherwise, never has been properly catered for in Thailand. It is now an even less viable way to gain work experience while helping others and enjoying yourself. Granted there's evidence of people managing to 'deal with it' but that was then and this is now.

The OP does possibly have a qualification that could leverage a Work Permit in teaching with the appropriate visa. However, a WP when issued is strictly limited to the job, the employer and the place of work so there's no 'wiggle room' there either.

[Suradit69]

"Then Prime Minister Taksin followed the law and said anyone without a

work permit must cease working in area or face prosecution."

Do you remember why they did that?

Immediately after the disaster volunteers were welcomed with open arms.

After a bit, it was realized that many volunteers were more of a problem than they were worth.

There was a lack of organization or structure, with many volunteers just 'doing their thing', which in many cases was a negative, rather than helpful.

And in many cases, even if volunteers possess something they regard as expertise, if they are unable to speak Thai they'll be less than useless since someone with translation skills needs to follow them around to make it possible for them to function. Some level of English is more widely spoken in urban/touristy areas now than was the case 10 years ago, but outside of those areas language will be a barrier.

There's no shortage of hands-on labor available in most places in Thailand and, even if you want to provide free work doing basic tasks, it may mean a Thai who would have been compensated will not be hired.

As others have said, you need to make sure you have everything sorted out before you come to Thailand, not after you pitch up with a tourist visa and even then, what you think is a definite pre-arranged undertaking may turn into something entirely different once you hit the ground.

[KhnomKhnom]

There are many ways to pursue your goals, but my advice is to come to Thailand on a legal tourist visa, with advance research as to where you would like to volunteer (and maybe some prior contact with your possible place), go to the place you want to volunteer and talk.

The issues (not problems) are...

-are you uniquely fitted, trained, able, to do the work that a Thai can not ordinarily do?

-can your "employer" provide the help and justifying paper work needed to get you a work permit?

-can you change TASKS, not jobs, within the one place? Change of job needs another work permit.

-can your "employer" get you approved for a full year, meaning justifying needing you that time?

If all these answers are yes, there is a cost for the work permit that 'someone' has to pay. With the paperwork showing you will be employed and with a work permit, you must depart Thailand, you pay, to a Thai Embassy outside Thailand in order to convert to a work visa. Return and Then quickly you go to labor dept to get work permit.

THEN you start volunteering work.

Few if any reputable entities will have you volunteer there without a work permit, especially during current strict situation. There are penalties to you AND the employer.

I know this system will be ok because it did ok for me. American. I was employed for two one-yr work permits and visa and then for four more one-year cycles of work permits and visa for a different employer.

I can only speak from personal experience, not hearsay nor me trying to understand any other plan.

[Bosse137]

Didn`t TAT not so long ago introduce "come to Thailand and work on your honeymoon"?? What happened to that;no succes? I mean,what a wonderful idea,hrmmm...

[Card]

"Then Prime Minister Taksin followed the law and said anyone without a

work permit must cease working in area or face prosecution."

Do you remember why they did that?

Immediately after the disaster volunteers were welcomed with open arms.

After a bit, it was realized that many volunteers were more of a problem than they were worth.

There was a lack of organization or structure, with many volunteers just 'doing their thing', which in many cases was a negative, rather than helpful.

Yes, I was a volunteer in Khao Lak a few months after the tsunami. The international volunteers did good work, although it meant that the local Thais sat around bemused by it all. But it was largely just an excuse for sex, alcohol, drugs and evangelism. I was pretty pissed off with many of them after that and decided not to volunteer again where there are large numbers of foreigners involved.

[GoonDizzy]

Cambodia is more in need of volunteers and it has nothing like the hassle you'll have in Thailand with visas/permits etc. The only thing with voluteering is that although intentions may be good, sometimes it has a bad psychological affect on the kids. Some of them have absolutely nothing in Cambodia or the poorest areas of Thailand (or so I hear) and when someone comes over for 6 months or so and shows them respect and gives up their time for them, they naturally become attached. Particularly in orphanages. Then, the volunteer leaves and it 'can' have a devastating affect on them.

I dunno what to advise, but Thailand isn't a place to be messing around with visas/permits at the moment (however good your intentions). If you do go volunteering, perhaps don't get too close with any of the kids (if you're teaching) as they could be devastated when you leave. It does happen. Maybe don't stay at one orphanage for too long.

I'm sure you have good intentions, so all the best, whatever you decide.

[Spoonman]

There are many ways to pursue your goals, but my advice is to come to Thailand on a legal tourist visa, with advance research as to where you would like to volunteer (and maybe some prior contact with your possible place), go to the place you want to volunteer and talk.

The issues (not problems) are...

-are you uniquely fitted, trained, able, to do the work that a Thai can not ordinarily do?

-can your "employer" provide the help and justifying paper work needed to get you a work permit?

-can you change TASKS, not jobs, within the one place? Change of job needs another work permit.

-can your "employer" get you approved for a full year, meaning justifying needing you that time?

If all these answers are yes, there is a cost for the work permit that 'someone' has to pay. With the paperwork showing you will be employed and with a work permit, you must depart Thailand, you pay, to a Thai Embassy outside Thailand in order to convert to a work visa. Return and Then quickly you go to labor dept to get work permit.

THEN you start volunteering work.

Few if any reputable entities will have you volunteer there without a work permit, especially during current strict situation. There are penalties to you AND the employer.

I know this system will be ok because it did ok for me. American. I was employed for two one-yr work permits and visa and then for four more one-year cycles of work permits and visa for a different employer.

I can only speak from personal experience, not hearsay nor me trying to understand any other plan.

There is no such thing as a work visa.

[paz]

There is no such thing as a work visa.

But there are visa (and extensions) that allow work, and others that don't.

You're playing with words and nitpicking on a posting that give solid and good advice on the matter, unlike your.

Edited July 13, 2014 by paz

[NanLaew]

Yes but nitpicking prevents a whole lot of misunderstanding by a whole boat load of TV newbies who have just been flushed out of the local undergrowth with these new visa changes.

For example the whole instruction of traveling "outside Thailand in order to convert to a work visa" is flawed.

There is no 'conversion' and there is no 'work visa'. One leaves Thailand and applies for a completely new and different Non-O visa.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Dear OP,

What you are attempting to do is against Thai law.

You risk arrest, jail, a fine, followed by deportation, and a ban from returning to Thailand stamped in your passport.

The Thai immigration you would be held in, normally for 1-2 weeks, is not a nice place to stay.

There would be no bail. The jail would be an even worse place for your gf.

Edited July 13, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[teambum]

I can only suggest caution at the moment. I believe you can get a 2 month work visa in Cambodia for $100 you would have to check. I am putting a link to a site I have used. http://www.workaway.info/ You don't have to go far to find a need that needs filling in this region. If you use the site then I suggest you use them for a short time and move on to make it look you are a traveller. at the moment they have 89 in Thailand and26 in Cambodia.

[bender92]

Have you considered Cambodia? The visa/work rules there seem less restrictive. And they definitely need help.

[connda]

.

You just can't show up here and spend a year flip-flopping around as freelance volunteers. All has to be planned in advance. WELL in advance.

I know that there are some hill-tribe orphanages, schools and such that organize this type of activity. Try google under "thailand volunteer oppertunities"

Beware that there are quite a few gray area companies who want to turn your good intentions into profits. I met an Aussie couple in Kanchanaburi. They were just out of college and had paid $2400 EACH (+ airfare) for 3 months of volunteer teaching. The money was supposed to be for "training" which was a ring binder and a video, "accommodations" which turned out to be free and provided by the school anyway, "western food": hot dogs and chicken nuggets, and "weekend side trips" to other destinations, BKK, beach etc., which were canceled more times than they happened.

Bearing in mind they only had tourist visas, they could have had BIG probs if they were found to be working as teachers, volunteer or not.

One more thing, there is a very short list of jobs that foreigners are allowed to do. Agriculture work is not among them. Unless you are a recognized expert in a field, the work must be done by Thai people.

'nuff said

~

Anytime you see an organization, usually set up as a non-profit, that advertises that you can preform volunteer work if you pay them X amount of dollar, baht, etc -- Caution: Run The Other Way!!! It's a fool's game. Lot's of money being spread around other than where it needs to go - lot's of well-intentioned albeit, ignorant people, biting hook, line, and sinker. Lots of sharks in the water. Don't get bit!

[connda]

Some great advice, thanks all. As I suspected it's going to be a bit of a tricky issue but there seem to be many whole are able to deal with it so I'm sure we'll be able to do the same.

I'm actually a qualified (CELTA) native English language teacher, I work freelance in Hungary right now. Do you think it would be worth applying for the type 'B' visa?

Same a 'O' type, you need a sponsoring school or company.

Also are the non-immigrant visas 30, 60, 90 days and how easy/difficult is it to get them extended to a year?

Generally 90 days and can be extended only you have all the necessary paperwork.

Why volunteer. Just apply at a Thai school that pays you 18K baht/mo for what will amount to a 40+ hour a week job. It's like volunteering. You'll be living off your savings just to get by...... Same, same.

[connda]

Cambodia is more in need of volunteers and it has nothing like the hassle you'll have in Thailand with visas/permits etc. The only thing with voluteering is that although intentions may be good, sometimes it has a bad psychological affect on the kids. Some of them have absolutely nothing in Cambodia or the poorest areas of Thailand (or so I hear) and when someone comes over for 6 months or so and shows them respect and gives up their time for them, they naturally become attached. Particularly in orphanages. Then, the volunteer leaves and it 'can' have a devastating affect on them.

I dunno what to advise, but Thailand isn't a place to be messing around with visas/permits at the moment (however good your intentions). If you do go volunteering, perhaps don't get too close with any of the kids (if you're teaching) as they could be devastated when you leave. It does happen. Maybe don't stay at one orphanage for too long.

I'm sure you have good intentions, so all the best, whatever you decide.

Agreed. Bag Thailand. Too much trouble for next to no appreciation. Go to Cambodia or some other country that is open to volunteer work and doesn't put up a wall of road blocks. From my experience, Thai don't really understand the concept of volunteering. Everything is done for something: generally if money is not involved it's for Buddhist merit.

[trentboy2]

Wow, some great responses thanks everyone.

It does seem that the visa thing will impact on our ambitions to travel/work in Thailand but we're pretty open to what we do and where we go. I will be sure to check out Cambodia and we're also looking at Vietnam.

[DKNY77]

Cambodia is more in need of volunteers and it has nothing like the hassle you'll have in Thailand with visas/permits etc. The only thing with voluteering is that although intentions may be good, sometimes it has a bad psychological affect on the kids. Some of them have absolutely nothing in Cambodia or the poorest areas of Thailand (or so I hear) and when someone comes over for 6 months or so and shows them respect and gives up their time for them, they naturally become attached. Particularly in orphanages. Then, the volunteer leaves and it 'can' have a devastating affect on them.

I dunno what to advise, but Thailand isn't a place to be messing around with visas/permits at the moment (however good your intentions). If you do go volunteering, perhaps don't get too close with any of the kids (if you're teaching) as they could be devastated when you leave. It does happen. Maybe don't stay at one orphanage for too long.

I'm sure you have good intentions, so all the best, whatever you decide.

Well said and very true. I spent a year working with a verifiable orphange in Cambodia. And like GoonDizzy said that is what happens. And it's a 2 way street. I miss the kids very much ..some more than others. I initially had went for 3 months but you get attatched to them and feel an obligation. So I extended to a year.That was 10 months ago..I'm in Texas now and am going back next month.Miss the kids alot and the great thing about Cambodia is that the visa is absolutely simple and no problem,,,,yet.

Also I found Cambodian people much nicer than thais or vietnamese....anyway look before you leap and take into account the feelings of the children in orphanages if you're going to spend an extended amt. of time with them...

[DKNY77]

.

You just can't show up here and spend a year flip-flopping around as freelance volunteers. All has to be planned in advance. WELL in advance.

I know that there are some hill-tribe orphanages, schools and such that organize this type of activity. Try google under "thailand volunteer oppertunities"

Beware that there are quite a few gray area companies who want to turn your good intentions into profits. I met an Aussie couple in Kanchanaburi. They were just out of college and had paid $2400 EACH (+ airfare) for 3 months of volunteer teaching. The money was supposed to be for "training" which was a ring binder and a video, "accommodations" which turned out to be free and provided by the school anyway, "western food": hot dogs and chicken nuggets, and "weekend side trips" to other destinations, BKK, beach etc., which were canceled more times than they happened.

Bearing in mind they only had tourist visas, they could have had BIG probs if they were found to be working as teachers, volunteer or not.

One more thing, there is a very short list of jobs that foreigners are allowed to do. Agriculture work is not among them. Unless you are a recognized expert in a field, the work must be done by Thai people.

'nuff said

~

Anytime you see an organization, usually set up as a non-profit, that advertises that you can preform volunteer work if you pay them X amount of dollar, baht, etc -- Caution: Run The Other Way!!! It's a fool's game. Lot's of money being spread around other than where it needs to go - lot's of well-intentioned albeit, ignorant people, biting hook, line, and sinker. Lots of sharks in the water. Don't get bit!

That is VERY true!

[LukDod]

"Then Prime Minister Taksin followed the law and said anyone without a

work permit must cease working in area or face prosecution."

Do you remember why they did that?

Immediately after the disaster volunteers were welcomed with open arms.

After a bit, it was realized that many volunteers were more of a problem than they were worth.

There was a lack of organization or structure, with many volunteers just 'doing their thing', which in many cases was a negative, rather than helpful.

I fully agree. Not only were there some 'doing their thing' and lacking direction which would benefit rescue efforts,

and IMHO a big problem were the church related groups who spent more time proselizing than helping!