Israel is using a sledgehammer to crack nuts

[Pattszero]

From that clip - 

 

"Israel is the rogue state, and the American government - not in my name."   

 

He - like millions of other Jews tonight - will be watching this latest imbroglio and weeping.  Watching the Zionists and American fundamentalists combine in this appalling act of state terrorism. 

[Jingthing]

From that clip - 

 

"Israel is the rogue state, and the American government - not in my name."   

 

He - like millions of other Jews tonight - will be watching this latest imbroglio and weeping.  Watching the Zionists and American fundamentalists combine in this appalling act of state terrorism. 

Dude, the vast majority of Jews in the world fully support the right of Israel to defend itself against terrorist Hamas.

[Pralaad]

 

 

Fantastic post -  the good news is that there is hope - 

 

 

 

Clearly some have problems sinking in, so lets try again, what does this have to do with Gaza and Hamas?

 

 

Did you not hear what he said?  

 

Try again. 

 

 

Did not even bother to waste my time listening to a 16 year old spoiled brat who lives with his mommy and daddy in total safety and protection of USA.

 

This thread is about conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, and your little video has nothing to do with that.

 

Israel is not in Gaza and Hamas is not firing rockets to get more land, they are firing rockets to destroy Israel and if you still find it hard to accept, they are targeting a nuclear reactor, so their intentions are pretty clear.

 

I would suggest for this kid though, to dress same way, wave his american passport, wear a kippah and go for a visit in Gaza and see how long he will stay alive or have an opportunity to express his support.

 

For some crazy reason, i am imagining his mommy and daddy running over to IDF screaming and demanding they go in to rescue their little boy by any means. But i do have vivid imagination, may be you see him having a meal with one of Hamas leaders

[Jingthing]

I don't agree with his position. He showed some bravery but he knew full well as an American Jew the consequences would be limited. So let's not be naive. Don't presume to think you know the protest actions I have taken in my life. 

Edited July 13, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jay Sata]

I suggest some of you who peddle right wing Zionist views should read Noam Chomsky.

Chomsky "grew up... in the Jewish-Zionist cultural tradition" . His father was one of the foremost scholars of the Hebrew language and taught at a religious school.
He is highly critical of the policies of Israel towards the Palestinians and its Arab neighbors. His book The Fateful Triangle is considered one of the premier texts on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict among those who oppose Israel's policies in regard to the Palestinians as well as American support for the state of Israel. He has also accused Israel of "guiding state terrorism" for selling weapons to apartheid South Africa and Latin American . He has also fiercely criticized sectors of the American Jewish community for their role in obtaining U.S. support, stating that "they should more properly be called 'supporters of the moral degeneration and ultimate destruction of Israel'

There are a lot of reasonable sympathetic people in Israel who do not share the right wing Zionist platform.

As an Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem acts primarily to change Israeli policy in the Occupied Territories and ensure that its government, which rules the Occupied Territories, protects the human rights of residents there and complies with its obligations under international law.

http://www.btselem.org Edited July 13, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Pattszero]

 

 

 

Fantastic post -  the good news is that there is hope - 

 

 

 

 

Clearly some have problems sinking in, so lets try again, what does this have to do with Gaza and Hamas?

 

 

Did you not hear what he said?  

 

Try again. 

 

 

Did not even bother to waste my time listening to a 16 year old spoiled brat who lives with his mommy and daddy in total safety and protection of USA.

 

This thread is about conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, and your little video has nothing to do with that.

 

Israel is not in Gaza and Hamas is not firing rockets to get more land, they are firing rockets to destroy Israel and if you still find it hard to accept, they are targeting a nuclear reactor, so their intentions are pretty clear.

 

I would suggest for this kid though, to dress same way, wave his american passport, wear a kippah and go for a visit in Gaza and see how long he will stay alive or have an opportunity to express his support.

 

For some crazy reason, i am imagining his mommy and daddy running over to IDF screaming and demanding they go in to rescue their little boy by any means. But i do have vivid imagination, may be you see him having a meal with one of Hamas leaders

 

 

I don't think you watched the video.  

 

If you did you wouldn't be spieling that garbage. 

[Pattszero]

I don't agree with his position. He showed some bravery but he knew full well as an American Jew the consequences would be limited. So let's not be naive. Don't presume to think you know the protest actions I have taken in my life. 

 

Feel free to list them - 

 

I'm prepared to bet that unlike many Jewish friends of mine you didn't volunteer to serve in the military.   Didn't leave the comfort of your own home and travel to the front line. 

 

Didn't wear the uniform for a single day - unlike many British Jewish friends of mine.

 

Who then came back appalled at what they had signed up for.

 

Did you?  

[FM505]

Israel is using a sledgehammer to crack nuts...

Yeah, so what...?

[poweratradio]

If Hamas stops firing rockets, Israel will stop responding to them. No civilized country would put up with its children being kidnapped and murdered and thousands of rockets being aimed at its cities by a terrorist group that has been calling for its destruction for decades. Yes, Israel's defensive measures are mostly working, but that is no thanks to Hamas, who want to murder as many innocent civilians as they can and have done so before the separation wall and Iron Dome became so effective at stopping their terrorist strikes. 

 

 

This much we know: Israel lives under constant threat from terrorists who would like nothing better than to exterminate the Jewish state that they consider an outright abomination. 
This much we have also come to understand: In polite society, it is increasingly fashionable to roll one’s eyes or outright indict Israel for daring to defend itself against those who aim to indiscriminately kill its people and undermine its right to exist.

The cycle continues as Hamas fires hundreds of rockets at Israeli cities, and Israel responds with far more precise and effective salvos at terrorists. All too predictably, international condemnation is starting to come Israel’s way.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/playing-death-card-article-1.1863872?comment=true

The name of that game is that the Sledgehammer is meant to be a deterrent but for the no mind Hamas they seem to forget the fact that they will always be slapped silly and sent to their rooms without any food. It is pure stupidity and they get their own people killed for no reason.

[fasteddie]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
What does Gaza have to do with 47 borders?
 
What does Golan have to do with Gaza?
 
And what does Golan have to do with Fakestinians? Golan is Syrian territory

So no compromise then? It all has to do with the '47 borders and Israel's constant land grabbing. The Golan heights are under Israeli occupation for their strategic value and access to water, so what I propose is to let them keep them in the spirit of compromise.

Sent from my XT1033 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

As far as Gaza goes it is already along the 47 boarder line, Israel hasn't taken any land from the Gaza area.

 

 

 

Yes it has!

 

 

Oh no it hasn't!

 

 

 

It is less than a quarter of the original land designated for Arab occupation by the UN in '47.

 

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the ...

Edited July 13, 2014 by fasteddie

[fasteddie]

Israel is using a sledgehammer to crack nuts...

Yeah, so what...?

 

 

What a sensitive and understanding contribution to the debate.

You must be so proud.

[Pralaad]

Israel is using a sledgehammer to crack nuts...
Yeah, so what...?

 
What a sensitive and understanding contribution to the debate.
You must be so proud.

Not sure why you bring up sensitive or understanding when you yourself do not seem to have a clue what is happening.

I mean you even managed to mix together Gaza and Golan Heights

[cdnvic]

Stop wasting time typing out personal attacks. I'm just deleting them as they pop up now.

 

Next step is posting bans.

[Ulysses G.]

It is less than a quarter of the original land designated for Arab occupation by the UN in '47.

You mean the land that the Arabs turned down and then started a bunch of wars - all of which they lost? It is 66 years too late to accept that deal. 

[kamahele]

I'm not a Hamas (terrorist organization) supporter and neither am I anti Israel. However, Israel clearly started this current conflict. They used the kidnapping and murder of three teenagers as an excuse to invade Palestinian territory arresting hundred, killing somewhere around 11 people while "searching" for the kidnapped teens and bulldozing the houses of people not convicted of a crime. Of course Hamas then then fired missiles into Israel. This was all part of Netanyahu's plan. This is a man who doesn't want peace with the Palestinians until they are all driven out of the territories. Since the missiles starting flying, only Palestinians have been killed. However something like 150 Palestinians have been killed including dozens of children.The Israeli's have a good missile detection system thanks to the USA. 

 

Historically speaking for those claiming there was no Arab Palestinian state ever. You are partially correct. This is an area of land which was called Palestine and occupied over the centuries by many different countries. The people who occupied this piece of land we refer to as Palestinians as what else shall we call them. Their land was taken from them to form the state of Israel. The government of Israel continues to move the bar higher and higher for the Palestinians trying to form some sort of homeland. The PLO laid down their weapons for peace finally and spent years in negotiations. Israel's foot dragging is part of the reason that some Palestinians turned to Hamas and elected them in the first place.

 

It's time for the US to stand up against Israel for a change and put a stop to this. We won't of course as the Israeli lobby has all of our politicians for the short and curlies.

[Ulysses G.]

They used the kidnapping and murder of three teenagers as an excuse to invade Palestinian territory

At least they had an excellent "excuse", thanks to the Palestinians.They were searching for those teenagers, because they did not know that they were dead and wanted to rescue them. That is what civilized people do.

[rbt]

It is the corrupt arab rulers who have let their "Muslim brothers" in Palestine down. If they had wanted to they could have used their oil weapon to force the west to stop aiding the zionists. It would have crippled the western economies and would evenually have led to the disappearance of the jews from Palestine. Instead what we see are new dictators like Sisi in Egypt who are so much in the pockets of the west that they not only ignore Israeli crimes but actually help commit them: witness the closing of the Egypt-Gaza border.

[Pralaad]

I'm not a Hamas (terrorist organization) supporter and neither am I anti Israel. However, Israel clearly started this current conflict. They used the kidnapping and murder of three teenagers as an excuse to invade Palestinian territory arresting hundred, killing somewhere around 11 people while "searching" for the kidnapped teens and bulldozing the houses of people not convicted of a crime. Of course Hamas then then fired missiles into Israel. This was all part of Netanyahu's plan. This is a man who doesn't want peace with the Palestinians until they are all driven out of the territories. Since the missiles starting flying, only Palestinians have been killed. However something like 150 Palestinians have been killed including dozens of children.The Israeli's have a good missile detection system thanks to the USA. 
 
Historically speaking for those claiming there was no Arab Palestinian state ever. You are partially correct. This is an area of land which was called Palestine and occupied over the centuries by many different countries. The people who occupied this piece of land we refer to as Palestinians as what else shall we call them. Their land was taken from them to form the state of Israel. The government of Israel continues to move the bar higher and higher for the Palestinians trying to form some sort of homeland. The PLO laid down their weapons for peace finally and spent years in negotiations. Israel's foot dragging is part of the reason that some Palestinians turned to Hamas and elected them in the first place.
 
It's time for the US to stand up against Israel for a change and put a stop to this. We won't of course as the Israeli lobby has all of our politicians for the short and curlies.

May be if PA did their job little better, then Israel would not have too.

By thee way you got any information on why the killers of Jewish boys are still free while the killers of Arab boy already arrested and charged?

Not to mention all of these took place in West Bank not the Gaza, and the only connection to Gaza and Hamas is the killers who are members of Hamas Edited July 14, 2014 by Pralaad

[spidermike007]

We get enough warped propaganda already, no need to add to it. 

 

 

 

 

Good point. The US congress and senate are very busy apologizing for Israel's aggressive behavior. While they do have a right to defend themselves, it is crazy to think the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah are not at least partially the result of blowback. Israel has been mistreating the Palestinians for decades. Really mistreating them. Some of that is bound to come back to them. And "Netanyahu the nutball" is probably enjoying this. He is a man of war. He despises peace. I cannot discuss this with my Jewish friends in the states, or from Israel, as I am labeled a Jew hater for having  a view that is sympathetic to the Palestinians. And I am Jewish. But, I am not a blind supporter of Israel. I am not a supporter of homicide, unless entirely necessary. Some response may be necessary. I am not sure what they are accomplishing with this current wave of murder, besides testing all the new weapons Obama has been giving them.

[Ulysses G.]

 The US Congress and Senate are not "apologizing" for Israel's  behavior. They know that no country on earth would allow an enemy to fire thousand of missiles at civilians and not put a stop to it. Thank goodness Netanyahu is in power now.. He will not bow to uninformed critics, out-and-out liars or political correctness. 

Edited July 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Pakboong]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/11/lebanese-rockets-hit-israel-as-hostilities-escalate/Over the past 24 hours, the IDF hit 81 underground rocket launchers, 21 command and control centers, 15 attack tunnels, and ten training centers. Seven Hamas regime buildings were also hit. Since the start of the operation, the IDF has struck 600 underground rocket launchers, 95 command and control centers, 61 underground tunnels, and 22 regime buildings

 

This thread is almost comical in how childish it has become. The piece that I find missing however,  is the Arabs defending themselves in print. The fact that those of us who do not have a dog in the fight fill in for them and take up their cause, can be a tiresome burden. They remind me of ISSAN Thais who want to drop out of school in the 6th grade and work 2 weeks a year on the rice. They are simply dumb and lazy but the Thais, according to the article "IQ and wealth of nations"  the Thais have a much higher IQ than the Palestinians.

 

The numbers above suggest that the Israelis know exactly what they are after and they are able to attack specific targets at will. I know for absolute certain that they have a very sophisticated spy and CI network in Gaza and have for decades. They have the entire area under 24-7 surveillance. The above numbers point that out specifically.

 

I look at the numbers for my clues. For example, only 30 of 166 deaths so far on the Palestinian side have been children. I don't need to consider other variables to draw the conclusion that the Palestinians are not using their children as human shield. I have a  collection of 20 cartoons showing a Palestinian with a baby in from of them while they fire at Israel. I have a collection of every photo I can find of using human shields in Gaza. I have about an equal number on each side and the ones of the IDF are much easier to read.  I have actually tried to post those pictures and they, for some reason, would not post. No question, the Palestinians are dumber than a box of rocks" and I often feel really stupid trying to defend them in any way.

 

Here is a list of all Israelis who have been killed by rockets since 2000. The number is 26 and that includes a few from special conflicts, cast lead,  etc.... I imgagine I could take any death list from Israel and determine that that number is microscopic.

 

The missle shield is fairly accurate to operate. One defense missile with associated logistics costs up to $50,000 and when you are talking a Qassam rocket being made for roughly $100 I do understand why Israel doesn't try to knock them all down. But, they could knock down a bunch more if they wanted to.

 

Here is the list of Israeli fatalities:

 

Fatalities from rocket and mortar attacks in Israel from the Gaza Strip

Total fatalities in the history of rocket and mortar attacks
from Gaza into Israel: 26

 

*Names deleted as it was improperly formatted*

 

Edited July 14, 2014 by Scott
Formatting

[Ulysses G.]

No question, the Palestinians are dumber than a box of rocks" and I often feel really stupid trying to defend them in any way.

The computerized Iron Shield does not try to shoot down rockets that are heading for uninhabited areas, but Israel certainly tries to shoot down every one that does. They are not purposely letting some through that are dangerous, if that is what you are implying (?).

As far as Palestinians using children as human shields, I have posted numerous pictures where they were firing rockets and in combat surrounded by children. You might be right about infants - tiny babies - (I am not sure one way or the other), but they are certainly using children as human shields and frequently. Edited July 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

 

 

What does Israel expect ?  They invaded the country, and enslaved the resident population..

Really? There has never been an Arab country called Palestine. The Arabs were the ones that started the conflict and they elected Hamas - a terrorist group - to govern them. I'm pretty sure that if they were "slaves," somebody that was not shooting rockets at Israel would be in charge.  

 

 

Your not to good at history, Israel was created when the jews ended there wandering after leaving Egypt, the Romans eventually invaded and the nation has not existed since partion, thats about 2000 years, i hardly think the Jews have a claim to that land.

 

Arabs and Jews lived side by side until the influx of European Jews after the second world war with the Jewish British insistent that a homeland be created.

 

As with the rest of the Middle East powder keg of problems all can be traced back to a constant meddling from former European superpowers as well as the United states.

 

Of all people the Jews claim to persecution as if it only ever happened to them should be mindful and show consideration towards the Arabs, i say turn off the taps of money and support and let them work it out for themselves if they cant and wont work towards a respectful conclusion that supports the rights of Arabs in Palestine.

 

 

You make it sound as if the Palestinian side is ready and willing to commence negotiations.  This is hardly the case, definitely when it comes to the Hamas.

 

It can safely be said that both sides had their fair share of being obstinate, untrustworthy and acting against their own best interests. Laying it all down on one side does not quite cut it, nor constitutes a true representation of reality.
 

[Morch]

 

 

 

By the way, plenty was done between The Balfour Declaration and  WW2. The Arabs and the Jews were fighting each other and both sides were fighting the Brits.

 

And this negotiation was with the British, that bastion of democracy, who gave the world that enduring legacy - the concentration camp.

 

Which is what the government of Israel has made in Palestine.

 

 

There is no Palestine.
 

 

 

You, and others, may repeat this nonsense all you like. Just gets more sand in your mouths with the heads buried that deep.   There is a Palestinian state in the making, pretty much acknowledged by most nations, and de facto, by Israel as well.

 

It is true, though, that currently there is no credible Palestinian leadership, what with Hamas doing their own thing regardless of the PA. This will need to be resolved before things can move forward.
 

[Morch]

I am always amazed at the ignorance of historical facts, and outright antisemitism and hatred towards Jews. They did not expel all the Arabs from their country around 1948-9.  It was in fact the Arab leadership that convinced many to leave. They lied and told their people that the Jews were committing atrocities against Arabs, thinking that would motivate them to rise up and fight. Instead the general population ran away. Abandoning everything, including their claim to property. About 600,000 people fled.This is referred to as "The Catastrophe" (Nakba). The Arab countries actively expelled Jews, and confiscated their property. Ironically, this was also about 600,000 people.  Funny how hatred works.  By the way, the ONLY Arabs with freedom and personal rights in the entire middle east live in Israel!

 

Do note the following FACTS:

 

"Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict." Here are overlooked facts in the

current Middle East situation compiled by a Christian university professor:

 

 

BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT ( It takes just 1.5 minutes to read! 

It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew -- it doesn't matter.)

 

 

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two

thousand years before

 the rise of Islam.

 

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967,

 two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

 

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one

thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

 

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.

 

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital Jerusalem  has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the  Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital,  and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

 

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

 

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

 

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

 

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

 

10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

 

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000.The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

 

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey .

 

13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

 

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the W est Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

 

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

 

16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

 

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolution s voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

 

18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

 

19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

 

20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

 

I'm not that amazed by people making broad brush claims, just not sure if they really believe them.

 

There were, in fact, more than one factor leading to the exodus of Palestinians (or then, Arabs) in 1948.  Arab leaders, Israeli armed forces, rumors, general fear and some common sense - there is hardly any credible historical review that singles only one of these as the cause. The debate is more to do with the relative effects of each one and how these were interrelated as  contributing to the outcome. To imagine that they all just ran away, is naive at best. While this was certainly true in some cases, there is plenty of evidence (from both sides, including IDF archives) to attest that there were many instances where the  Arabs were driven out.

 

The same, by the way, goes for the Jews who lived in Muslim countries - some were expelled, some ran away, some were convinced by Jewish leaders to leave. It is indeed a good mirror image, though - shows how people on both sides lost their former lives and property. It is not, however, a completely balanced comparison, as this Muslim countries were not "Palestinian", nor had any obligation to accommodate the Palestinian refugees in place of the Jews. Having the same language and religion does not make them the same people. The fact that the Arab countries have more land area is not germane to this claim.

 

The Arab countries (not sure which one are included), do not all represent the Palestinians, and surely not all of them started all the wars in which Israel was involved. In at least more than one case, it was Israel who struck the first blow, can be debated  whether this was always justified.

 

As far as I am aware, the PLO charter was changed a while back, although some references to older version may remain. The advocated stance by the PA does not call for the destruction of Israel, even is some of the Palestinian public is still up for that. A similar situation can be seen in Israeli society and politics, where official government stand is not always a representation of some trends and actions.

 

Israel still holds direct control of at least half of the West Bank (aka Area C), the rest divided between areas fully controlled by the PA (area A) and areas where control is shared (Area B ). These divisions are not always respected by Israel.

 

The Holy sites in Jerusalem are not generally open to Palestinians (either Christian or Muslims), there is no free access for Muslims from most Arab countries. Jews, at least, religious ones, mostly avoid setting foot on the Temple Mount anyway.

 

The UN issues raised are true enough, which sort of explains Israel's disdain toward this fine institution.

 

Most of the historical and religious mumbo jumbo is largely irrelevant, despite being interesting. It does not really matter who was first, who was there a thousand years ago and which direction people pray to (and as pointed out by chicog - totally wrong on that score as well). These sort of arguments, and facts, mostly serve to perpetuate the conflict and promote the interests of those who go for the all or nothing solution. Before objections ensue - this is true for both sides, neither much better than the other on that one.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Scott

[lemel]

Every time the Israelis find some moral high ground, they promptly bomb the shit out of it!

[dexterm]

This whole war has been manufactured to order by Israel. They don’t want peace, they just want a managed conflict while they continue to colonize Palestine illegally.

 

For years Netanyahu said he couldn’t negotiate peace with the Palestinian Authority because they didn't represent Gaza.

 

So a few months ago the PA made an agreement with Hamas to hold elections that was recognised by the USA and EU.

 

Netanyahu was furious.

 

Then along came the tragic abduction and murder of 3 Israeli teenagers. Shin Bet knew within less than 24 hours from an eventually published phone call from one of the kids with the sound of gun shots that they had been killed. But that didn’t stop the Israeli terrorist state from immediately pointing the finger at Hamas without a shred of evidence..and none has still been produced! Hamas kidnaps soldiers, claims responsibility, and negotiates for the release of 1000s of Palestinians held without charge in Israeli jails. This does not benefit Hamas at all...but it is very useful for Israel. This incident has the hallmarks of 2 angry and hate filled Palestinians, the same brand as the Israeli thugs who burnt alive Mohammed Abu Khdeir

 

But Israel always gets away with the big lie. They even lied to the kids’ parents maintaining the pretext that they might still be alive.

 

It was the perfect excuse to spend weeks smashing up Palestinian homes, rounding up 560 ..many of whom are still in jail without charge, killing 9 Palestinians, and mounting air strikes. And the rest is history as the score now reaches 172 dead Palestinians, 1000s injured, 17000 refugee refugees: Israel nil.

 

The Palestinians can never win a military war against the nuclear armed Israel. They should all be issued with phone cams to record the daily humiliation at West Bank checkpoints, beatings and murder committed by the occupying IDF and Zionist squatters, and bombard the social media and YouTube with the images.

 

..and shame Israel into making a just peace.

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2014 by dexterm

[Morch]

The spoils of the land theft crimes committed by the Zionists can only be held by even more crimes - but its a double edged sword, and eventually, they will be brought to justice.

 

They are surrounded by neighbors they have brutalized, they are committed to an ideology that is at its core racist and has the concept of superiority by blood lines, and the Zionists  constant state of aggression and fear has left them incapable of compassion or compromise even though they are facing a demographic fact that will negate any possibility of the outcome they desire.

 

Therefore, Its just a matter of time, and unfortunately, countless number of Palestinian corpses before they see the futility of their doctrine.

 

 Finally, the problem is not the Jews, its the Zionist ideology that has hijacked a people, and now seeks to stifle any debate by using positioning labels such as 'Anti Semite". I think the Jewish people need liberation as much as the Palestinians need a land.

 

 

 

How does "land theft" relate to the Gaza Strip? There are no Israelis, no Israeli troops and no illegal Israeli settlements there.  Israel demonstrated a willingness to return land for peace (as in the case of Egypt and the Sinai peninsula, and Israeli forces withdrawing from southern Lebanon). Ironically, there is no Palestinian violence to rival the Hamas's in the West Bank, where Israeli presence is a reality and where all of the illegal settlements are.

 

Israel's neighbors have not all been brutalized as such, at least not without them having something to do with it. Not as if they were just having a stroll, minding their own business and Israel jumped them. Two of them neighbors have peace treaties that hold true, so far. The other two not currently having a government in control of their domestic affairs makes it a questionable exercise getting anything done about further agreements. Not exactly the case that Israel's two remaining hostile neighbors were offering any olive branches lately and Israel declined them. As for compassion - not a lot of that in evidence when one tunes in to news feeds from Syria, Lebanon and Egypt (and that's just domestic news....).

 

If, as the claim appears to be, it is just a matter of time before demographics win the day, then the rational thing to expect from those opposing Israel would be to sit tight and wait for its demise. Maybe would go faster with less casualties, more "make love, not war" attitude.

[Morch]

"I can only imagine the reaction if Cambodia was lobbing rockets into Thailand.

 

Or if Ireland was doing the same to the UK"

 

Of course the Irish did just that but I don't recall any British retaliatory airstrikes on civilians. The OP was about proportionality remember and Israel will never succeed with these tactics.

 

"Clearly the "Jewish vote" is not as critical as say the HIspanic vote".

 

When it comes to US foreign policy the "Jewish Vote" is way more influential, largely as a result of the huge amounts of money they can mobilize. Just check out the influence Sheldon Adelson has and he is only one man.

 

 

'They did not invade the country and they certainly have not enslaved a population"

 

Really? Been to the West Bank lately?

 

What would be a "proportionate" reaction to rockets being launched indiscriminately at civilian targets?  Would setting up an equivalent system returning indiscriminate rocket fire at the Gaza Strip be better?  Perhaps Israel ought to dismantle the Iron Dome defense systems as well, just for that sense of fair play?

 

The Jewish lobby in the USA is indeed powerful. Probably too much so. Then again, so are other lobbies and influence groups - big pharma, weapon industry, NRA, Oil & Gas, Saudi Arabia....

 

There West Bank, or at least large parts of it are most definitely occupied by Israel, one way or another.  The Gaza Strip is not.  The populations is not "enslaved" by Israel in either place.  The rockets are not being launched from the West Bank, but from the Gaza Strip.

[Morch]

 

Israel ceased to exit from 587BC untill 1949AD some 2400 plus years my friend,  who cares if jews lived there in between that time, same can be said for just about every civilization on earth, borders have shifted nations died and renewed.

 

The majority of Jews in Israel are decedents from European Jews all the Arabs/Palestinians are direct descendents of Arabs from in and around that area.

Jerusalem was the capital of nothing because there wasn't a nation untill 1949 and as for jews pushed out of neigbouring countries with this and that destroyed....did it ever occur to you that sort of thing has been going on everywhere since day one?

 

The Jews have been using the holocaust as the reason for pretty much everything they do and keep reminding the world through movies etc, yes it was a disgraceful and anyone involved should have been tried as a criminal, but let me remind you of Uganda, Sarajevo, Stalin Russia even the first settlers of Australia gunning down the local natives, not to forget Cortez and his band of murdering cut throats let loose in Mexico and Central America and the list goes on.

 

See the situation for what it is, if the US cut funds to Israel i bet a negotiated peace could be found, the US where quick to slap embargo's on to Cuba, Russia and anyone else not seen as towing the line....clearly Israel went against world opinion with building settlements in occupied land, and thats another thorny issue...occupied lands.
 

 

 

If history does not play a part when it comes to making claims on the land, it cuts both ways.  That is, unless a certain date or time frame are arbitrarily decided upon.

 

Most settlements of such conflicts either slowly evolve through historical processes and demographics, or take into account present conditions. There is not real successful precedent of moving back the clock.

 

As far as I am aware, there was no mention of the Holocaust in relation to current events, by either Israel or posters supporting Israel on this forum (the latter came up mostly in response to posts of posters with anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian views). I agree that Israel sometimes over plays this hand, just not this time around. If anything, the heritage of the Holocaust should have made the Israelis more sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians, but that's probably water under the bridge now.
 

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict predates the USA over-generous funding of Israel. While the building and expansion of illegal settlements on occupied lands is both wrong and stupid, it does not actually happen in the Gaza Strip, where most of the current violence is to be found.