Reincarnation - have you changed your mind?

[Neeranam]

Where were the souls before the earth was formed?

This is a very 3D question...

When we return home, we transcend 3D and merge with all there is. You might as well ask where love is or where God is (if you believe in God, that is).

If you really want a 3D answer, I could say that Earth is a pretty young planet and there are far older ones out there.

Besides, where is your soul now?

Good answer.

The Soul World

Where have I Come From?

When I begin to consider myself to be a soul, the question often arises, “Where do souls come from?” In meditation I can explore dimensions of consciousness beyond the physical senses. Experiencing these dimensions increases my awareness of subtle realities of thought and feeling and ultimately takes me to a place of utter peace, purity and silence in which I feel as if I’ve returned to my original ‘home’. Together, the physical, subtle and soul ‘worlds’ comprise the three main levels of human consciousness.

The Physical World

The world in which we are now living is known as the physical or corporeal world, because all living beings here have a gross, corporeal or manifest form. The physical earth can be thought of as a vast stage where we ‘play our parts’ in the drama of life, in different bodily ‘costumes’. It can also be thought of as a field, where seeds of action are sown and fruits are reaped as experiences of happiness and sorrow. Here ‘time’, ‘space’, ‘history’ and ‘geography’ are important parameters of existence; here the laws of science apply. It is a world of expression and experience.

The Subtle World

Beyond the limits of the vast expanse of our solar system and distant galaxies there are regions of non-material light, unreachable by physical means and inaccessible to the physical senses. These realms can only be experienced through deep meditation and divine insight. The subtle world is an intermediate dimension of pure, positive luminous energy in which there is the experience of one’s subtle body of light and communication with other souls through pure spiritual thoughts and vibrations.

The Soul World

Beyond the physical realm of action and the subtle realm of pure thought lies an infinite, timeless dimension of complete stillness, silence and peace. Suffused with golden-red luminosity, this is the realm of God, the Supreme Being, Parent of all souls. It is the original home of all souls, where we once dwelt in a dormant, seminal state of total belongingness and bliss. Experiencing this ‘supreme region’ (Paramdham) of highest consciousness in meditation renews and recharges the soul, empowering it with the strength to play its part in the physical world with peace, equanimity and enlightened clarity.

http://www.brahmakumaris.org/whatwedo/courses/fcirym/topics.htm/homeofsouls.htm

[Emster23]

" Of course, we ALL know that believing in something (or not) has nothing at all to do with whether something is true (or not), right?"

Wrong. Unless you feel it is perfectly ok to be lied to.

[Neeranam]

" Of course, we ALL know that believing in something (or not) has nothing at all to do with whether something is true (or not), right?"

Wrong. Unless you feel it is perfectly ok to be lied to.

Do you believe in gravity?

[Tchooptip]

Seriously? reincarnation topic? what next? Voodoo practice?

Why not , reincarnation's topic

changes from the constant topics reincarnation on bar girls cheating wives and taxis driver not putting meter

[tingtongteesood]

Nope, like all religions it is a load of hogwash...

[KhnomKhnom]

Believing is a belief.

Not believing is a belief.

P.S., you don't come back, you are already "there."

[Pralaad]

Nice to think there is more than ending up as just a worm buffet, or bbq and smoke depending on your preference.

But its all a matter of the what the individual wants to "believe".

There is some science to it as well.

Body being powered by energy, energy has to go somewhere after the body dies.

Personally watched 2 people die and i am certain i felt or saw(really can not put the feeling into words) that energy(soul) leave the body

[Beetlejuice]

" Of course, we ALL know that believing in something (or not) has nothing at all to do with whether something is true (or not), right?"

Wrong. Unless you feel it is perfectly ok to be lied to.

Do you believe in gravity?

Try standing on the roof of a 10 story building and then jumping and see what happens. This will probably prove the point that gravity exists.

There are no rights and wrongs to many of these questions. Physical realities, for example if people pour petrol over themselves and strikes a match, they will burn, no question about it. All the rest is just based on blind faith, such as religions, heaven and hell and reincarnation. Most scientists would poo poo the bible and the spirit world saying it does not conform to the laws of physics and is an illogical way of thinking.

For many people the bible, the belief in a God and an afterlife can be a used as a crutch to lean on, as a sort of comforter of the mind that the world we now live in is not the be all and end all and probably gives them a feeling of hope and perhaps even a purpose in life.

I sometimes do envy these people who can have blind faith without question and say good luck to them if this is something that gives them satisfaction, comfort and more meaning to their lives.

[kovaltech]

I believe in reincarnation. I do not have any personal experience with reincarnation, nor do I profess to know how it works. I believe that it is probably more complicated than I can comprehend. I remember reading Rene Descartes proof for the existence of God, and remember a quote by a Pope (I don't remember who) who likened that the universe being created without a God was analogous to spilling sand and it forming a masterpiece (something to that effect at least). It made sense to me, so I do believe in "something beyond".

From reading alot of posts, I have the distinct impression that most people on TV are either atheists or agnostic and I certainly don't think it is right to tell anyone that there beliefs are wrong.

I also believe that alot of things that Thai people do that Westerners are puzzled at, are based on the belief in reincarnation. As a people and compared to people in the West, Thais are extremely religious in terms of the percentage of people that believe. It's not hard to find an atheist/agnostic in the West, much harder to find a Thai atheist. So when I see posts about how life is cheap in Thailand, or why don't Thais wear helmets, or why are Thais so careless in doing such and such when it could cause death, my thoughts are well it's because virtually all Thais believe in reincarnation and believe that some things like your death are predestined, and (if you made merit in this life) your next life will be better so why ake a big deal about it.

Why make a big deal??? because its stupid and affects my non believing right to live my life not be wiped out by a moron driving a bus on the phone and weaving in an out of traffic at will.

Words fail me for someone who alledges to have had an education.

Religion is child abuse pure an simple and that includes the Thai Buddhist system, its a disgrace.

Kannot, i believe you'r craving for a ticket out of Thailand?

I believe its almost impossible to find a bigger insult as that what you wrote above...

So stuff it, you are a disgrace...

[benalibina]

There is belief and there are believers practicing their beliefs. Unfortunately there are many (if not most)not act similar to their beliefs They are humans.

[joecoolfrog]

Kovaltech

What exactly did you find so insulting ?

Are you suggesting those that believe in reincarnation should be allowed to drink drive or do anything else they desire without censure?

Do you believe very young children should be indoctrinated into certain beliefs , would you not consider this abusive ?

[sirineou]

Nice to think there is more than ending up as just a worm buffet, or bbq and smoke depending on your preference.

But its all a matter of the what the individual wants to "believe".

There is some science to it as well.

Body being powered by energy, energy has to go somewhere after the body dies.

Personally watched 2 people die and i am certain i felt or saw(really can not put the feeling into words) that energy(soul) leave the body

Cars are powered by energy

I used to have a 69 GTO when I was in high school.

I really miss that car, do you think there is a chance it might come back?

[daoyai]

For most people, knowing what is before your born and after your body dies, is totally errased from your memory bank each time you arrive on earth and leave. Being able to open the doors of memory to the Unknown takes many lives of meditation and mystical practical applications. I began my quest in a Mystery School in 1964 this life and within 10 years was able to start opening the doors of memory and further understand the laws of reincarnation. Soul in endless and has no limites being WE our Soul is a part of what thought us into our present creation. Our soul is in one respect a large storage bank of feelings and thoughts that accumilate as each human life is experienced, but being soul has no limites, more than one life can be experienced at a time. Belief is based on ignorance and superstition. Knowledge is based on scientific fact, whether that science be earth material science or mystical science.

I was ok with this wooist mubo jumbo until the last line, please don't use the term science, you don't understand what the word means, "mystical science"?

[Kitsune]

I had an NDE at the age of 15.

So for me there is no question about it.

Death is not the end, only a passage between 2 worlds.

[sirineou]

I had an NDE at the age of 15.

So for me there is no question about it.

Death is not the end, only a passage between 2 worlds.

Ohhh sure, near death experience, I have one of these in the BQE (Brooklyn Queens Express)every day.

but did you have a death experience and come back? near only counts on a game of horse shoes.

[tpazzi]

Considering the Theravada Buddhist doctrine of Anatman, is it really possible to believe in anything? (Who is there to do the believing?)

Many Westerners think of reincarnation as a way to extend the fun. But the goal for Buddhists is to escape the cycle of rebirths in order to terminate the endless suffering.

As to remembering who you were in a past life... to a Buddhist it doesn't matter. The objective is to live fully in the present. Any energy spent trying to discover who you were in a past life is a distraction.

[BookMan]

I don't know if there's an afterlife, but surely there must've been prior lives, because how else to explain why I'm so far behind on my work?

Is it ok to be so flippant about other people's sincerely held beliefs?

Yes. Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. Your belief doesn't get a pass just because what you believe has, through some fluke of history, managed to become an established religion.

There is no shame in admitting, "I don't know" and there is no reason in this day and age to attribute supernatural causes to things we don't know. The correct approach is to continue to try and find out, to experiment and to see if any results are repeatable and stand up to scrutiny.

When I was a Believer, I prayed everyday. It gave me great comfort to know that there was a compassionate, loving entity out there that looked out for me and my kin (that is, all of humanity). The memory of that comfort remains and I miss it even while understanding the absurdity of the belief that engendered it.

The best explanation as to why we believe was something I heard on a TV show:

"You're a primitive man on the savannah. out of the corner of your eye, you see something move . You assume it's a hyena. You run. You live. If you assume it's the wind and you're wrong, you die. We carry the genes of the ones who ran. We are genetically hard wired to believe in living forces that we cannot see."

Thoughtful reasoning can overcome this hard wiring. The awakening comes to millions every year. Unless science and progress are stymied (and religious fundamentalists are attempting just that), the relentless march of science ensures more and more of us will awaken.

Please note that attacking someone's belief is not the same as attacking the person. If anyone feels attacked personally, then you should examine why you feel that way. Have you identified with an idea so closely that an attack on that idea feels like a personal attack on you?

T

Good post all round Thakkar.

[BookMan]

I haven't changed my mind about reincarnation. I didn't believe before and I don't believe now.

However, I can see how long term exposure to a culture might have people change their views

I had been with my current GF for 2 years before she realised I didn't believe in any higher power. She was quite puzzled about this and asked me how I could not believe.

In my twenties and early thirties I would have argued the point with her but as I have gotten older I accept both sides of the equation.

I doubt I will ever believe in reincarnation, but in twenty years time , who can say for sure?

[bushwacker]

I believe reincarnation is a popular theme in many books, movies, shows. It is a great way to keep people in line. Works great with kids and most often when they grow up they do not realize that they are not kids anymore.

[OmegaRacer]

I believe reincarnation is a popular theme in many books, movies, shows. It is a great way to keep people in line. Works great with kids and most often when they grow up they do not realize that they are not kids anymore.

Hmmm....not condescending at all...well done.

You're so sure about how everything works, you could answer some of the big questions that have bothered humanity for thousands of years.

I won't hold my breath.

Those who don't know speak the loudest.

Or...

He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool; shun him.

He who knows not and knows that the knows not is a child; teach him.

He who knows and knows not that he knows is asleep; wake him.

He who knows and knows that he knows is wise; follow him

Edited July 15, 2014 by OmegaRacer

[Emster23]

" Of course, we ALL know that believing in something (or not) has nothing at all to do with whether something is true (or not), right?"

Wrong. Unless you feel it is perfectly ok to be lied to.

Do you believe in gravity?

I know there is gravity. I have fallen several times in my life, and seen other examples. Not believing in gravity would make no difference if I were to jump out window on 10th floor. Easy quick proof.

[Frank James]

From all I have read on the subject, even the sages who believe in reincarnation say that last lives/next lives do not matter. All that matters is how we conduct ourselves here and now, in this time, this body, this soul.

[luckytrev]

All very interesting but I believe the Stoics had it right "Where life is death is not and where death is life is not".

Most people are afraid of the unfathomable emptiness that lies beyond death but scarce gives a thought to the unfathomable emptiness that laid before life. Belief in reincarnation is perhaps an attempt look in both directions. Not being a Cartesian duelist I believe reincarnation to be impossible but I try to live life as a Buddhist would and hope that I am wrong.

[FredLee]

Karl Marx was spot on when he described religion as Opium for the masses. I used to believe that belief in reincarnation was harmless but my views have changed over time. There is little doubt that in Thailand both social mobility and social responsibility have been seriously hindered by current interpretation of Budhism.

Belief in reincarnation is harmful?

What a strange thing to say.

I don't belong to any religion but believe in reincarnation.

Why?

Are you calling Stephen Hawking stupid? Do you understand the laws of thermodynamics better than one of the greatest astrophysicists who has ever lived?

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," he added.

Interview with Stephen Hawking, 2011 The Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/may/15/stephen-hawking-interview-there-is-no-heaven

Which law of thermodynamics is being violated by the belief in reincarnation, and how so?

Another quote from Mr. Hawking in the article you linked to is "Scientists predict that many kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing." This is also the consensus of many scientists in the way that our current universe was created. Out of nothing. How is this belief supported by any physical law?

I don't profess to know the answers. Scientist say there was nothing, and then the universe just happened. Believers in a supernatural power say that there was nothing, and then the universe was created by this supernatural power. Why is either more or less believable than the other? Both sound pretty magical to me.

So I see no reason to believe that some sort of existence after physical death is impossible. I can't see that it is any more impossible than the universe spontaneously being created out of nothing.

[pastafarian]

I agree with the late, great Carl Sagan.

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-carl-sagan-described-death-his-young-daughter

[malt25]

I don't believe in reincarnation, and I didn't believe it when I was a frog.

Absolutely best quote of the day. Nothing more needs to be said.

[kannot]

Being here has not changed my mind on reincarnation but I do find it rather petty that folk risk or give over their current life on a gamble that there could be another, better one. It's akin to the nutty Muslims and their virgins in heaven. One should probably enjoy what they have now the best they can just in case there is nothing else.

Personal belief: something funny is going on behind the scenes way above our comprehension. Brain/matter isn't part of the equation and neither is what you do in this life. But if there is a sliver of a chance of returning to this vs nothing, I choose the latter thanks. It's not all a bed of roses for everyone.

Here're some of the virgins willing to wait for the holy warriors. All virgins and not younger than 69.

Thats effin hilarious as not only are they old but unable due to religion to have sex............perfect for the religious nutcase bombers.........wait till they arrive and are greeted with them ( theoretically of course)

[kannot]

Karl Marx was spot on when he described religion as Opium for the masses. I used to believe that belief in reincarnation was harmless but my views have changed over time. There is little doubt that in Thailand both social mobility and social responsibility have been seriously hindered by current interpretation of Budhism.

Belief in reincarnation is harmful?

What a strange thing to say.

I don't belong to any religion but believe in reincarnation.

Why?

Are you calling Stephen Hawking stupid? Do you understand the laws of thermodynamics better than one of the greatest astrophysicists who has ever lived?

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," he added.

Interview with Stephen Hawking, 2011 The Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/may/15/stephen-hawking-interview-there-is-no-heaven

Which law of thermodynamics is being violated by the belief in reincarnation, and how so?

Another quote from Mr. Hawking in the article you linked to is "Scientists predict that many kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing." This is also the consensus of many scientists in the way that our current universe was created. Out of nothing. How is this belief supported by any physical law?

I don't profess to know the answers. Scientist say there was nothing, and then the universe just happened. Believers in a supernatural power say that there was nothing, and then the universe was created by this supernatural power. Why is either more or less believable than the other? Both sound pretty magical to me.

So I see no reason to believe that some sort of existence after physical death is impossible. I can't see that it is any more impossible than the universe spontaneously being created out of nothing.

Science doesnt tell you you cant <deleted> another same sex person and doesnt tell you a multitude of crap to abide by, theres a BIG BIG difference

[kannot]

I agree with the late, great Carl Sagan.

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-carl-sagan-described-death-his-young-daughter

A great man who explained things well and didnt cave in to religious mumbo jumbo when explaining his death

[thailiketoo]

Where were the souls before the earth was formed?

This is a very 3D question...

When we return home, we transcend 3D and merge with all there is. You might as well ask where love is or where God is (if you believe in God, that is).

If you really want a 3D answer, I could say that Earth is a pretty young planet and there are far older ones out there.

Besides, where is your soul now?

My point was that to believe in reincarnation one must embrace a number of other goofy ideas. Although I must say that going to a religious college always seemed to me like a difficult choice. If I was running Tibet I would have paid for the Dali Lama to get a real education outside of a monastery.