Tourist visa holders denied entry to Thailand and left stranded in Malaysia

[hobz]

I do not understand why immigration doesn't have one set of rules and regulations, requirements and forms for every immigration officer, consulate and embassy.

Because Thai government organisation is very very very far behind western standards.

[Tatsujin]

Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas, how can you obtain a visa and then be denied entry to the country unless you fly into it?

Classic Thailand

You must have read a different article to me . . . they are not refusing entry to "tourists", they are refusing entry to people who consistently abuse the Tourist Visa, i.e. "visa runners", and with all the recent reporting on this subject, why are you surprised or shocked about this?

As per the article:

"All of the foreigners who were denied entry had a previous history of multiple visa exempt entries or back to back tourist visas."

Thailand is currently undergoing some fairly major changes, reducing corruption and following the law a lot more closely. I have no idea how long this will last for, but the message is clear . . . we're trying to do things better, and you (foreigners) need to follow the law as it is written now.

Although the visa situation here isn't easy, simple or convenient, most of us manage to stay here for years at a time by doing things "properly" . . . I suggest some of these others start to do the same, and perhaps, just perhaps, when they see that we can do things correctly, they might just make it easier for us doing it properly to stay here even longer/easier at some future point in time.

They were NOT abusing the system.

That is the system that has always been in place in Thailand for years, signed, sealed and delivered by none other than the immigration Bureau of Thailand.

You went to an embassy, they gave you a visa, sometimes they deny you a double entry and stick you with a single entry, but THEY issued the visas.

You wanted an extension, you went to immigration and THEY extended it for you... simple as that.

As a matter of fact, up until these new xenophobic changes, this is the very website where people came for advice on how to stay in Thailand long term on tourist visas and were helped by scores of members of all the tricks of the trade. Nobody used to chime in saying 'shame on you' or 'you are not a tourist, stop abusing the system'...

Yet most of you lot probably found your way onto this website in the first instance by looking for the very same info for your own needs.

I reckon there is a lot of hypocrisy in this thread coming from people who themselves have done their own fair share of visa runs, as a matter of fact I don't think I know many farang here who haven't and I have met many many farang in my time.

It is Thailand that has brought this culture of visa runs, and as far as I am concerned, no visa running farang has ever abused a system put in place by immigration themselves.

Speak for yourself, I'm not a hypocrite and on arrival in Thailand many many years ago, ensured I then obtained the correct Non-Imm visa required for longer term stay and have done the same ever year since

Whatever the law was in the past or the understanding with Tourist Visa's used to be, the law has now changed . . . and it's been very well publicized. As with everything here, you either go with the flow or you move on somewhere else. Live here illegally or legally. I know what my choice has always been.

Bitching and moaning about "the law" as it stands now won't change it or their attitudes one iota. And if the restrictions on Non-Imm visa's get harder in the future, I'll be yet another that then takes a walk. Until then, I have the correct legal visa for the type of stay I am here on. I live here legally, I work here legally and I pay my taxes here legally. I wonder how many of these "tourists" can say the same?

As a reminder, here's a summary of the CURRENT law:

Border runs have been cut short due to the very recent change in rules regarding overland entry by Thai immigration. Foreigners entering Thailand via border posts at Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, and Malaysia without securing a prior visa will now be granted only 15 days of stay in the country as opposed to the previous Visa on Arrival, which was valid for 30 days.

According to a spokesman for the Thai Immigration Bureau, the new regulation was created to encourage foreigners to secure the proper visas in advance from a Royal Thai Embassy prior to their arrival. The new rule will also limit the amount of back-to-back visa runs being made by foreigners to extend their stay.

However, this change only applies to visitors who have not obtained a visa beforehand, and are entering from the border by land. Those who arrive at the airport without a prior visa will continue to receive a 30-day stamp. Extensions at Thai Immigration after the Visa on Arrival has expired remain at 7 days, after which you must leave the country or pay the penalty and other sanctions for overstaying the visa.

The only exception to the new regulation will be Malaysian passport holders traveling from Malaysia, as they will continue to receive the 30-day Visa on Arrival. Immigration authorities further clarified that there is no longer a limit on the number of times a foreigner may enter Thailand within the days allowed on the Visa on Arrival. The former provision stating that visitors cannot stay for more than 90 days within six months has already been dropped.

Beyond 90 Days

Visitors can now enjoy Thailand more

A dose of good news awaits tourists—following the new regulation set by Thai Immigration, visitors can now come regularly to Thailand without limiting their stay within a total of 90 days in a six-month period.

The restriction has already been abolished so tourists can now visit Thailand as often as they want, provided that they obtain 30 day Visa on Arrival at airports and 15 day Visa on Arrival if they are traveling via land borders.

However, immigration officials still recommend getting visas prior to arrival in Thailand, as they remind visitors that back-to-back short visas are not the proper way to extend the stay in the country on a long-term basis.

This new regulation is predicted to greatly benefit travel agencies as more border trips are expected to be booked with the increased influx of tourists eager to renew their visas.

[phirho]

Disclaimer: I have no real skin in this game as I'm on a new non-O multi. I'm just curious.

Are you staying on back to back 90 day entries from a Multi visa? In this case it is clearly an abuse of the rules and not how this visa is intended to be used. If the crackdown continues, these visas may well become the next target after NON-EDs

[Pralaad]

until they change the LAW to state that tourist can only stay so many days a year ..none of these people are breaking the law...so all the smart ass would do well to remember this.......you could be next Jack

it is immigrations job to catch illegal workers INSIDE thailand and arrest , blacklist then deport them ..........not at borders before they have entered there is a declatation on the immigration card that you sign..that is how they get you INSIDE thailand

Well, no.

It is immigration job to stop possible violators from even entering.

Saying that, current crack down even on tourist visa holders is draconian.

May be Thailand should introduce 1 year tourist visa or alternatively develop a new program for people under the retirement age who may want to live in Thailand.

Again saying that , they did, the elite program which is fairly expansive. May be this is what Thailand wants , only people with money.

Nothing wrong with that, only people with money do not move to Thailand

[Tine]

I was shocked to read this when I woke up this morning. I am just looking for some guidance really.

My mother in law from the Philippines has been staying with us and helping take care of our baby. First she came over on a 30 day visa exempt stamp and two weeks ago she did a u turn at the sadao border for another 15 days. When she was coming through to do her 15 days they told her at the border that next time she won't be able to do a u turn and will need to spend a night in Malaysia. She is actually planning on staying until September. My husband is planning on taking her to penang tomorrow to get a 60 day tourist visa. They will return via the sadao border.any ideas if she is going to be denied entry at the border? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[gk10002000]

until they change the LAW to state that tourist can only stay so many days a year ..none of these people are breaking the law...so all the smart ass would do well to remember this.......you could be next Jack

it is immigrations job to catch illegal workers INSIDE thailand and arrest , blacklist then deport them ..........not at borders before they have entered there is a declatation on the immigration card that you sign..that is how they get you INSIDE thailand

They are all breaking the law . . . they are not "tourists" if you are using the people denied entry in the article as an example . . . they are using the tourist visa to enable them to stay long term in Thailand . . . that is NOT the purpose of the tourist visa, and THAT is what they are cracking down on.

And no, it's immigration's job to stop undesirable or illegal people at the border before they get into Thailand, not just once within the borders.

The big issue is the Embassies and consulates issuing the VISAs, but then the border officials not honoring them for whatever reason. Some people surely were abusing the system, but that is not for the border officials to decide. Does the fine print of the VISA says the 30 day extension or further renewals is "subject to approval".

[dukebowling]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... alt=whistling.gif> ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

A cold fact that apparently needs to be repeated ad infinitum since some people seem incapable of understanding it.

The reason of refusal needs to be a good one. A commitment is a commitment whether by a country or an individual. Only those that do not keep their word can support a refusal of a lawful Visa.

Edited July 14, 2014 by dukebowling

[bkkjames]

In my mind if the the goal is stop people working illegally, then should they not spend the time resources neccesary chasing those who do as opposed to this carpet bombing type exercise on tourist visas? How hard is it to find those that are abusing the system anyway?

[mataleo]

How can u be turist for 30 days if the visa is for 60 and can be extended for 30 days?

[phirho]

It seems the Russians working here illegally is a major target.

It doesn't seem to be that way. If you read the first post, you see other nationalities like UK and USA were refused entry as well. Moreover, Russians still getting 30-day exempt entries on other land borders just fine (e.g. Ban Laem)

[krislarter]

I come to Thailand every winter for 6 months from the UK for the last 10 years.I had non "O" 2times when it was easier and now use triple tourist visas.I work offshore so i can go away for 6 months and get away from the winter and have plenty of cash to spend in LOS.

I have used extensions a few times to stay extra months also.I will apply for the same visa this time when i come.I have 2 used triple visas in my newish passport with 1 extension.I use the Ranong crossing as it is near the island i stay at.

I understand the reason they are cracking down on 30 day exempt,but on the same hand border runners are not breaking any laws in that respect.If it was illegal it would not be allowed,but it is not illegal.

If i stay 2 months and do a run for the 2nd and 3rd entry and return on the same day that is also not illegal as the visa allows it.If i want to extend it for 30 more days that is also not illegal as they allow it and inform us on their consulate sites that it is ok to do that.

There seems to be no consistency in their administry of the new rules.They should limit the multiple exempt to just one 30 day entry.They should ask for more evidence of funds when issuing the tourist visa in our home countries,or only issue single entry 60 day visas and not allow another until 30-60 days after it has expired.Plenty of people who work in their own country often go away for the winter months to be in a better climate to relax and have fun.Not everyone is in LOS to work illegally or stay illegally.

All i ask is for the rules to be consistent and clear so we can all abide by the rules.

Not so much to ask is it?

[jpinx]

Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas, how can you obtain a visa and then be denied entry to the country unless you fly into it?

Classic Thailand

You must have read a different article to me . . . they are not refusing entry to "tourists", they are refusing entry to people who consistently abuse the Tourist Visa, i.e. "visa runners", and with all the recent reporting on this subject, why are you surprised or shocked about this?

As per the article:

"All of the foreigners who were denied entry had a previous history of multiple visa exempt entries or back to back tourist visas."

Thailand is currently undergoing some fairly major changes, reducing corruption and following the law a lot more closely. I have no idea how long this will last for, but the message is clear . . . we're trying to do things better, and you (foreigners) need to follow the law as it is written now.

Although the visa situation here isn't easy, simple or convenient, most of us manage to stay here for years at a time by doing things "properly" . . . I suggest some of these others start to do the same, and perhaps, just perhaps, when they see that we can do things correctly, they might just make it easier for us doing it properly to stay here even longer/easier at some future point in time.

They were NOT abusing the system.

That is the system that has always been in place in Thailand for years, signed, sealed and delivered by none other than the immigration Bureau of Thailand.

You went to an embassy, they gave you a visa, sometimes they deny you a double entry and stick you with a single entry, but THEY issued the visas.

You wanted an extension, you went to immigration and THEY extended it for you... simple as that.

As a matter of fact, up until these new xenophobic changes, this is the very website where people came for advice on how to stay in Thailand long term on tourist visas and were helped by scores of members of all the tricks of the trade. Nobody used to chime in saying 'shame on you' or 'you are not a tourist, stop abusing the system'...

Yet most of you lot probably found your way onto this website in the first instance by looking for the very same info for your own needs.

I reckon there is a lot of hypocrisy in this thread coming from people who themselves have done their own fair share of visa runs, as a matter of fact I don't think I know many farang here who haven't and I have met many many farang in my time.

It is Thailand that has brought this culture of visa runs, and as far as I am concerned, no visa running farang has ever abused a system put in place by immigration themselves.

----------------------------

In many ways you are correct. The whole culture of abusing the system has been going on for a long time and has lined many pockets, and I think that is a large part of the reason for the clampdown now. It's not only the abuse of the immigration rules that were endemic - look at the creeping abuse of pavement and beach space by street vendors. Just because it's been going on for so many years doesn't make it right. The backhanders doled out were considerable and the new regime has declared war on corruption. Also this will leverage the corruption involved with the "employment" of foreigners without a proper work-permit.

Interesting aside -- I see elsewhere that China has asked Thailand for visa-free entry for it's passport holders. Watch this space.....

[Maggusoil]

"You are a tourist for 30 days, not more."

they mean business now, i hope it doesn't spread to the northern and eastern borders

Is this part of military law and how much has it to do with problems with the area in general?

It would seem the military may have a spin on it.

[OnMyWay2]

So for legit tourists is it still possible to enter with a 60 day Visa?

[harrycallahan]

I was shocked to read this when I woke up this morning. I am just looking for some guidance really.

My mother in law from the Philippines has been staying with us and helping take care of our baby. First she came over on a 30 day visa exempt stamp and two weeks ago she did a u turn at the sadao border for another 15 days. When she was coming through to do her 15 days they told her at the border that next time she won't be able to do a u turn and will need to spend a night in Malaysia. She is actually planning on staying until September. My husband is planning on taking her to penang tomorrow to get a 60 day tourist visa. They will return via the sadao border.any ideas if she is going to be denied entry at the border? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Third entry on a tourist visa, sounds like denied. Especially if coming through land border. But no one can tell you exactly, and even if pay for visa still don't know. This article suggests Bkk entry improves chances.

For what it's worth; she isn't a tourist.

[hobz]

So for legit tourists is it still possible to enter with a 60 day Visa?

Only if the immigration officer is sane enough to believe that you can be a tourist for more than 30 days.

[JAFO]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

^I seriously doubt this.

What it will do however is stop these people that have exploited a system that was not strictly enforced as it should have been. I support it 100%. I am glad those multi visa runners were displaced. I doubt they will be let back in from the airport

Either you are a tourist occasionally or you live here with a retirement, Marriage or Work visa.

I expect more borders to follow suit soon.

[bkkjames]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

^I seriously doubt this.

What it will do however is stop these people that have exploited a system that was not strictly enforced as it should have been. I support it 100%. I am glad those multi visa runners were displaced. I doubt they will be let back in from the airport

Either you are a tourist occasionally or you live here with a retirement, Marriage or Work visa.

I expect more borders to follow suit soon.

I hope you are correct - wouldn't fancy being in a tourist related business at the moment. I find it hard to understand why if the so called undesireables were such, how come the Embassy issued them a visa in the first place? The brakes should have been put on right there IMO.

[JeffreyWitty]

Don't be surprised in the future if they limit the land crossings to only members of ASEAN community and all others would have to gain entry via air.

They are serious (currently) about getting out the illegal riff-raff.

We, as an EX-PAT community have brought some of this on ourselves by not policing our own. If you know someone who is violating the VISA requirements - TURN THEM IN!!!!!!!!!!!

It's those folks who abuse the system and ruin it for the rest of the legitimate ex-pats!

[grantbkk]

Everyone saw this coming for a month. Serial visa runners are the target this time. Easy to spot someone who is actually living here by thumbing through their passport. Does anyone have sympathy for the stranded individuals that now have to get their buddy or mother to send them funds to travel to another entry point? These are the same guys that brag about beating the system. Some even have the ability to reside here legally but choose to use loopholes in the rules to scam the system.

This is a crackdown gentleman. It will pass but the visa landscape may never be the same. You have to laugh at the people who are complaining they have to get back to their jobs here, obviously working illegally. If they trust their girlfriends and wives there stuff will be here when and if they get back.

[hagler]

Been waiting for this to start to happen for over 10 years now. Great news. If they keep it up then all the skivers will go away to other countries with less rigorous immigration and Thailand will be even more pleasant to live in. All good here. Sympathy to those caught up in this but hey thats life.

[farangx]

All of the foreigners who were denied entry had a previous history of multiple visa exempt entries or back to back tourist visas.

too obvious why they were denied entry.

Edited July 14, 2014 by farangx

[Tatsujin]

until they change the LAW to state that tourist can only stay so many days a year ..none of these people are breaking the law...so all the smart ass would do well to remember this.......you could be next Jack

it is immigrations job to catch illegal workers INSIDE thailand and arrest , blacklist then deport them ..........not at borders before they have entered there is a declatation on the immigration card that you sign..that is how they get you INSIDE thailand

They are all breaking the law . . . they are not "tourists" if you are using the people denied entry in the article as an example . . . they are using the tourist visa to enable them to stay long term in Thailand . . . that is NOT the purpose of the tourist visa, and THAT is what they are cracking down on.

And no, it's immigration's job to stop undesirable or illegal people at the border before they get into Thailand, not just once within the borders.

The big issue is the Embassies and consulates issuing the VISAs, but then the border officials not honoring them for whatever reason. Some people surely were abusing the system, but that is not for the border officials to decide. Does the fine print of the VISA says the 30 day extension or further renewals is "subject to approval".

Thailand is no different from ANY other country (UK, USA, all of them) . . . a visa does NOT guarantee entry into the country, it's down to the individual immigration official's decision whether to allow it . . . same, same in every other country.

And yes, it IS for the border official to decide, same as every other country.

[csabo]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

yeah, i agree with this. i had a nightmare trying to get my wife back into the UK after we went to Paris for a weekend last year. she had valid UK and Schengen visas too. took 15 minutes of talking before they would let us enter

Not sure if being delayed fifteen minutes would constitute a nightmare. I think the story relayed in the article is a bit more nightmare-like and if anything, speaks to the relative ease of your delay. These border agents have a job to do and take orders from higher ups. People have been abusing Thailand's lazy enforcement of their own standards. Unfortunately, as is usually the case, a few bad apples have spoiled it for the bunch. The bad apples being the "tourists" who are getting local jobs to perpetuate a permanent vacation and using border crossings like a merry-go-round. Additional abusers might include people under 50, not married to a Thai, legitimately retired and earning a pension in there mother country but are forced to get back to back tourist visas because no other option is available to them. I would have been forced to go that route myself but as I am only here on my first double entry visa, the way things are going, it may be my last. Obviously Thailand can make any rules they want, it is their country to do with as they please and I will always be a gracious visitor but in reality, retirement has nothing to do with one's age and everything to do with money in the bank. If this comment diverged slightly from the topic I apologize.

[BV70]

How long must you stay out of the country for a tourist visa to not be classed as back-to-back. One day, one week, one month, several months?

[whiteman]

Don't be surprised in the future if they limit the land crossings to only members of ASEAN community and all others would have to gain entry via air.

They are serious (currently) about getting out the illegal riff-raff.

We, as an EX-PAT community have brought some of this on ourselves by not policing our own. If you know someone who is violating the VISA requirements - TURN THEM IN!!!!!!!!!!!

It's those folks who abuse the system and ruin it for the rest of the legitimate ex-pats!

Wow witty do not also to forget your 500 bhat reward you maybe can get a work permit and employ 4 Thais to rat on the abusers. just put an add in the local paper and your phone will start ringing with whistle blowers.

[krislarter]

How long must you stay out of the country for a tourist visa to not be classed as back-to-back. One day, one week, one month, several months?

Good Question.

Probably up to the imm officer.

[csabo]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

^I seriously doubt this.

What it will do however is stop these people that have exploited a system that was not strictly enforced as it should have been. I support it 100%. I am glad those multi visa runners were displaced. I doubt they will be let back in from the airport

Either you are a tourist occasionally or you live here with a retirement, Marriage or Work visa.

I expect more borders to follow suit soon.

I hope you are correct - wouldn't fancy being in a tourist related business at the moment. I find it hard to understand why if the so called undesireables were such, how come the Embassy issued them a visa in the first place? The brakes should have been put on right there IMO.

Because issuing aka selling visa's makes money. Stamping them does not.

[alanrchase]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

Can happen in most countries. Just because you were issued and charged for a visa it does not guarantee you will be allowed to enter.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[raiya]

holy cheese...