Online freelancer, long stay in Thailand

Oceanbat · July 20, 2014

[quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127096" timestamp="1405844921"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127087" timestamp="1405844713"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127075" timestamp="1405844496"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP

Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.

I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.

The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
[/quote]
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
[/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
[/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.[/quote]But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.[/quote]
Seems like they don't want them anyway?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

JomtienEats · July 20, 2014

The answer to your tough questions is actually very simple,

It's a hugely complex question that touches many areas, new-economy ecosystem development and skills/knowledge transfer being the most important. Very difficult to tell how any new immigration initiaves affect this. If you think it's simple, you're not seeing the bigger picture.

TheSiemReaper · July 20, 2014

[quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127087" timestamp="1405844713"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127075" timestamp="1405844496"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP

Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.

I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.

The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
[/quote]
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
[/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
[/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.[/quote]But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.

Seems like they don't want them anyway?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I suspect as the knowledge based freelance economy grows that places like Thailand will start reaching out to companies like mine. We take no jobs from locals. (I don't do business in Asia at all - getting paid at the end of a project is too much like hard work, I stick to European, North American and Australian companies only as clients). We earn large amounts of money and we spend our money where we are. We're only a tiny percentage of global companies now - in 20 years, we're going to be much more significant.

Given the current visa fiasco in Thailand, I think Thailand has no idea what it really wants. The whole "Thailand doesn't want you" is in the imagination of ridiculous people living in Thailand; proudly contributing very little and over-inflating that contribution in their heads.

The Cambodian economy isn't so proud as to say; "Don't spend your money here." I think in the long run, I'll probably settle in Malaysia under the 2nd home program but I don't want to buy a home in Malaysia at the moment.

Oceanbat · July 20, 2014

[quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127132" timestamp="1405845530"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127107" timestamp="1405845120"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127096" timestamp="1405844921"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127087" timestamp="1405844713"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127075" timestamp="1405844496"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP

Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.

I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.

The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
[/quote]
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
[/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
[/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.[/quote]But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.[/quote]Seems like they don't want them anyway?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
I suspect as the knowledge based freelance economy grows that places like Thailand will start reaching out to companies like mine. We take no jobs from locals. (I don't do business in Asia at all - getting paid at the end of a project is too much like hard work, I stick to European, North American and Australian companies only as clients). We earn large amounts of money and we spend our money where we are. We're only a tiny percentage of global companies now - in 20 years, we're going to be much more significant.

Given the current visa fiasco in Thailand, I think Thailand has no idea what it really wants. The whole "Thailand doesn't want you" is in the imagination of ridiculous people living in Thailand; proudly contributing very little and over-inflating that contribution in their heads.

The Cambodian economy isn't so proud as to say; "Don't spend your money here." I think in the long run, I'll probably settle in Malaysia under the 2nd home program but I don't want to buy a home in Malaysia at the moment.[/quote]
You seem like a good bloke and quite sincere. But I don't believe Thailand had any inclination to do what you would like. I lived in Japan for a long time and perhaps my opinions are warped from that experience. Everyone kept saying "the Japanese must do this..." But you know what? They don't particularly want to and they are fine with that. To me the Thais seem to have a similar attitude.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

JLCrab · July 20, 2014

Topic subtitle: I have seen the future and it is me.

TheSiemReaper · July 20, 2014

[quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127107" timestamp="1405845120"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127096" timestamp="1405844921"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127087" timestamp="1405844713"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127075" timestamp="1405844496"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP

Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.

I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.

The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
[/quote]
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
[/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
[/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.[/quote]But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.[/quote]Seems like they don't want them anyway?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
I suspect as the knowledge based freelance economy grows that places like Thailand will start reaching out to companies like mine. We take no jobs from locals. (I don't do business in Asia at all - getting paid at the end of a project is too much like hard work, I stick to European, North American and Australian companies only as clients). We earn large amounts of money and we spend our money where we are. We're only a tiny percentage of global companies now - in 20 years, we're going to be much more significant.

Given the current visa fiasco in Thailand, I think Thailand has no idea what it really wants. The whole "Thailand doesn't want you" is in the imagination of ridiculous people living in Thailand; proudly contributing very little and over-inflating that contribution in their heads.

The Cambodian economy isn't so proud as to say; "Don't spend your money here." I think in the long run, I'll probably settle in Malaysia under the 2nd home program but I don't want to buy a home in Malaysia at the moment.

You seem like a good bloke and quite sincere. But I don't believe Thailand had any inclination to do what you would like. I lived in Japan for a long time and perhaps my opinions are warped from that experience. Everyone kept saying "the Japanese must do this..." But you know what? They don't particularly want to and they are fine with that. To me the Thais seem to have a similar attitude.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Possibly but Thailand's not Japan. Economically it's a little bit behind China. China is already making moves to allow people like me to work there legally (and they aren't all that keen laowai/farang either).

It all comes down to money in the end. Japan is an economic powerhouse and like Western Europe/The US/Canada/Etc. it doesn't need the income vs. the hassle. Thailand almost certainly does. Once the dust settles on this crackdown and the implications (particularly in the teaching sector) are better understood - I think you'll see major changes to the visa regime to make it easier for people to give Thailand their money.

pistachios · July 20, 2014

Thailand has lots of visas, exemptions and rules that other countries do not have. It is an apples and oranges comparison. Thailand is not the US, and enacts immigration rules and laws specific to its own circumstances.

The relevant questions, and they are open ones, are

1. which of these online freelancers is beneficial to Thailand's economy
2. how to accomodate them
3. what the drawbacks are
4. whether the net benefit is great enough to accomodate them
5. what charge or tax to levy

Tough questions to answer indeed and no perfect solution. However, I think the 100K/year elite card rough filter makes a reasonable fist of all 5.

What is the difference between an online freelancer spending 80k thb/month in thailand for a year and 12 one month tourists with the same monthly budget?

Apart from the airport taxes and a slight difference in how they spend their money, it's pretty much the same thing.

A tourist spends foreign currency in Thailand, pays some tax through VAT and provides jobs or revenues to thais through the services and goods he purchases. On the other hand, he produces trash, pollute and sometimes commits crime. The net benefit for Thailand is obvious, tourists as well as online freelancers are beneficial to Thailand's economy.

Thailand is doing a lot to attract tourists to the country. There are millions of them and it represent a fair share of the nation's PIB.

But Thailand doesn't give a shit about online freelancers. For a start, I'm not even sure they acknowledge their existence, and even if they did, there isn't enough of them to bother to give them a special treatment, accommodate them in any way and even tax them.

Edited July 20, 2014 by pistachios

TheSiemReaper · July 20, 2014

Thailand has lots of visas, exemptions and rules that other countries do not have. It is an apples and oranges comparison. Thailand is not the US, and enacts immigration rules and laws specific to its own circumstances.

The relevant questions, and they are open ones, are

1. which of these online freelancers is beneficial to Thailand's economy
2. how to accomodate them
3. what the drawbacks are
4. whether the net benefit is great enough to accomodate them
5. what charge or tax to levy

Tough questions to answer indeed and no perfect solution. However, I think the 100K/year elite card rough filter makes a reasonable fist of all 5.

What is the difference between an online freelancer spending 80k thb/month in thailand for a year and 12 one month tourists with the same monthly budget?

Apart from the airport taxes and a slight difference in how they spend their money, it's pretty much the same thing.

A tourist spends foreign currency in Thailand, pays some tax through VAT and provides jobs or revenues to thais through the services and goods he purchases. On the other hand, he produces trash, pollute and sometimes commits crime. The net benefit for Thailand is obvious, tourists as well as online freelancers are beneficial to Thailand's economy.

Thailand is doing a lot to attract tourists to the country. There are millions of them and it represent a fair share of the nation's PIB.

But Thailand doesn't give a shit about online freelancers. For a start, I'm not even sure they acknowledge their existence, and even if they did, there isn't enough of them to bother to give them a special treatment, accommodate them in any way and even tax them.

By my count, on a single freelancing site, there are 38K online freelancers based in Thailand already. Multiply that out across the "big 4" and that's over 100K online freelancers. Not quite the same volumes as tourists but not insignificant either.

Oceanbat · July 20, 2014

[quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127169" timestamp="1405846172"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127144" timestamp="1405845782"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127132" timestamp="1405845530"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127107" timestamp="1405845120"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127096" timestamp="1405844921"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127087" timestamp="1405844713"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127075" timestamp="1405844496"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP

Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.

I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.

The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
[/quote]
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
[/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
[/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.[/quote]But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.[/quote]Seems like they don't want them anyway?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
I suspect as the knowledge based freelance economy grows that places like Thailand will start reaching out to companies like mine. We take no jobs from locals. (I don't do business in Asia at all - getting paid at the end of a project is too much like hard work, I stick to European, North American and Australian companies only as clients). We earn large amounts of money and we spend our money where we are. We're only a tiny percentage of global companies now - in 20 years, we're going to be much more significant.

Given the current visa fiasco in Thailand, I think Thailand has no idea what it really wants. The whole "Thailand doesn't want you" is in the imagination of ridiculous people living in Thailand; proudly contributing very little and over-inflating that contribution in their heads.

The Cambodian economy isn't so proud as to say; "Don't spend your money here." I think in the long run, I'll probably settle in Malaysia under the 2nd home program but I don't want to buy a home in Malaysia at the moment.[/quote]You seem like a good bloke and quite sincere. But I don't believe Thailand had any inclination to do what you would like. I lived in Japan for a long time and perhaps my opinions are warped from that experience. Everyone kept saying "the Japanese must do this..." But you know what? They don't particularly want to and they are fine with that. To me the Thais seem to have a similar attitude.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Possibly but Thailand's not Japan. Economically it's a little bit behind China. China is already making moves to allow people like me to work there legally (and they aren't all that keen laowai/farang either).

It all comes down to money in the end. Japan is an economic powerhouse and like Western Europe/The US/Canada/Etc. it doesn't need the income vs. the hassle. Thailand almost certainly does. Once the dust settles on this crackdown and the implications (particularly in the teaching sector) are better understood - I think you'll see major changes to the visa regime to make it easier for people to give Thailand their money.[/quote]
Perhaps. But I believe you are trying to apply a western though process to what is an eastern mindset. If you read up on how japan and South Korea became powerhouses, it wasn't by allowing sole traders free reign.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

TheSiemReaper · July 20, 2014

[quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127144" timestamp="1405845782"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127132" timestamp="1405845530"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127107" timestamp="1405845120"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127096" timestamp="1405844921"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127087" timestamp="1405844713"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127075" timestamp="1405844496"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP

Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.

I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.

The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
[/quote]
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
[/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
[/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.[/quote]But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.[/quote]Seems like they don't want them anyway?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
I suspect as the knowledge based freelance economy grows that places like Thailand will start reaching out to companies like mine. We take no jobs from locals. (I don't do business in Asia at all - getting paid at the end of a project is too much like hard work, I stick to European, North American and Australian companies only as clients). We earn large amounts of money and we spend our money where we are. We're only a tiny percentage of global companies now - in 20 years, we're going to be much more significant.

Given the current visa fiasco in Thailand, I think Thailand has no idea what it really wants. The whole "Thailand doesn't want you" is in the imagination of ridiculous people living in Thailand; proudly contributing very little and over-inflating that contribution in their heads.

The Cambodian economy isn't so proud as to say; "Don't spend your money here." I think in the long run, I'll probably settle in Malaysia under the 2nd home program but I don't want to buy a home in Malaysia at the moment.[/quote]You seem like a good bloke and quite sincere. But I don't believe Thailand had any inclination to do what you would like. I lived in Japan for a long time and perhaps my opinions are warped from that experience. Everyone kept saying "the Japanese must do this..." But you know what? They don't particularly want to and they are fine with that. To me the Thais seem to have a similar attitude.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Possibly but Thailand's not Japan. Economically it's a little bit behind China. China is already making moves to allow people like me to work there legally (and they aren't all that keen laowai/farang either).

It all comes down to money in the end. Japan is an economic powerhouse and like Western Europe/The US/Canada/Etc. it doesn't need the income vs. the hassle. Thailand almost certainly does. Once the dust settles on this crackdown and the implications (particularly in the teaching sector) are better understood - I think you'll see major changes to the visa regime to make it easier for people to give Thailand their money.

Perhaps. But I believe you are trying to apply a western though process to what is an eastern mindset. If you read up on how japan and South Korea became powerhouses, it wasn't by allowing sole traders free reign.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

As the option didn't exist when those countries were doing their thing; it's near irrelevant. Thailand's development has certainly not (so far) come close to emulating the success of those nations. Both of which opened their doors to as much foreign expertise as they could get their hands on and paid through the nose for the privilege. I have friends in Japan and South Korea picking up huge pay checks in our industry. The same is not true for Thailand. Compare apples with apples and Thailand's a lot more like China than those two countries.

pistachios · July 20, 2014

If I go to the US - or to your country of origin - as a tourist, can I do online business there and stay forever?

Thailand has lots of visas, exemptions and rules that other countries do not have. It is an apples and oranges comparison. Thailand is not the US, and enacts immigration rules and laws specific to its own circumstances.

The relevant questions, and they are open ones, are

1. which of these online freelancers is beneficial to Thailand's economy
2. how to accomodate them
3. what the drawbacks are
4. whether the net benefit is great enough to accomodate them
5. what charge or tax to levy

Tough questions to answer indeed and no perfect solution. However, I think the 100K/year elite card rough filter makes a reasonable fist of all 5.

The answer to your tough questions is actually very simple, if Thailand had a need for farang on liners they would create a class of visa/wp for them, they havent done so, and there appears there is no plan to do this, therefore it suggests Thailand doesn't need them, in a similar manner Thailand needs Cambodian and Burmese worker's, so what have they done ? Made it quite easy for them to stay and work in Thailand and get a WP

Not saying that Thailand needs online freelancers, but your answer implies that if Thailand doesn't do something, it means that the country doesn't need it. That is seriously flawed logic (oops, again!).

There are plenty of things that Thailand doesn't do (about corruption, road fatalities, pollution, etc...) but it certainly needs to be done.

Oceanbat · July 20, 2014

[quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127217" timestamp="1405846776"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127205" timestamp="1405846629"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127169" timestamp="1405846172"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127144" timestamp="1405845782"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127132" timestamp="1405845530"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127107" timestamp="1405845120"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127096" timestamp="1405844921"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127087" timestamp="1405844713"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127075" timestamp="1405844496"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127065" timestamp="1405844365"][quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127056" timestamp="1405844229"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127048" timestamp="1405844149"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8127033" timestamp="1405843920"] [quote name="Soutpeel" post="8127007" timestamp="1405843509"] [quote name="TheSiemReaper" post="8126870" timestamp="1405841240"]@The OP

Come to Cambodia. Online freelancing is a legal option here. No requirement for a work permit. No requirement for language lessons. No ridiculously over-priced tourist visa either. $285/year all in. If you want a year's language lessons - that would cost about $100 on top.

I could afford the Elite card but there's no way on earth that I would afford it. 500K (that's $16k USD) Baht plus other fees for a 5 year tourist visa? Lol. If Thailand ever decides to enter the modern age and make it easy to incorporate a sole-trader that pays taxes but neither hires Thais nor hires an office; I'd consider moving to Thailand until then... not on your nelly.

The long-term impact of this visa crackdown is going to damage Thailand's ability to trade internationally give them a few years and economic pressures will make them relent (or at least come up with a sensible set of requirements for a long-term visa). Until then, come to the Kingdom of Wonder and enjoy a cheaper lifestyle without a single visit to register in a police station in your whole time here.[/quote]So how much income tax are you contributing to the Cambodian economy then
[/quote]
None. It's completely legal. My company does no business in Cambodia. It leaves me to decide where I will work. My company is a Hong Kong registered entity, trading completely overseas, no Hong Kong business allowed. I don't get paid a salary thus I have no income to tax. I pay an annual accounting fee in Hong Kong and can expense everything I can get a receipt for; including my rent, bills, etc. you don't pay taxes on expenses (apart from possibly VAT). If I can't get a receipt - I don't buy it.
[/quote]So why would Thailand want you?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
[/quote]
Umm... because as my first post says; if I could incorporate in Thailand, I'd pay tax? Are you being deliberately obtuse?[/quote]
Yep. Sounds like an awesome deal for Thailand.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Given that the tax on my company earnings would be equivalent to 8 x Thailand's GDP per capita - it's an awesome deal for Thailand. I wonder how much tax you're contributing Mr. High and Mighty? I suspect the answer is "nowhere near that much" but I'm full of myself anyway.[/quote]But no inclination to employ Thais or increase skills etc? 8 is my lucky number by the way. I'm happy for you your business is a great success.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
No inclination to employ anyone at all. Why would I? I'm a sole-trader. I don't need staff. I don't need an office. And I expect 100% ownership of my business - not 49% of it. Hiring people would just drag my earnings down and then how would I pay my staff? Thailand can build hospitals with my taxes instead or schools... or they can't and they can't have those taxes. Simple equation.[/quote]Seems like they don't want them anyway?

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
I suspect as the knowledge based freelance economy grows that places like Thailand will start reaching out to companies like mine. We take no jobs from locals. (I don't do business in Asia at all - getting paid at the end of a project is too much like hard work, I stick to European, North American and Australian companies only as clients). We earn large amounts of money and we spend our money where we are. We're only a tiny percentage of global companies now - in 20 years, we're going to be much more significant.

Given the current visa fiasco in Thailand, I think Thailand has no idea what it really wants. The whole "Thailand doesn't want you" is in the imagination of ridiculous people living in Thailand; proudly contributing very little and over-inflating that contribution in their heads.

The Cambodian economy isn't so proud as to say; "Don't spend your money here." I think in the long run, I'll probably settle in Malaysia under the 2nd home program but I don't want to buy a home in Malaysia at the moment.[/quote]You seem like a good bloke and quite sincere. But I don't believe Thailand had any inclination to do what you would like. I lived in Japan for a long time and perhaps my opinions are warped from that experience. Everyone kept saying "the Japanese must do this..." But you know what? They don't particularly want to and they are fine with that. To me the Thais seem to have a similar attitude.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
Possibly but Thailand's not Japan. Economically it's a little bit behind China. China is already making moves to allow people like me to work there legally (and they aren't all that keen laowai/farang either).

It all comes down to money in the end. Japan is an economic powerhouse and like Western Europe/The US/Canada/Etc. it doesn't need the income vs. the hassle. Thailand almost certainly does. Once the dust settles on this crackdown and the implications (particularly in the teaching sector) are better understood - I think you'll see major changes to the visa regime to make it easier for people to give Thailand their money.[/quote]Perhaps. But I believe you are trying to apply a western though process to what is an eastern mindset. If you read up on how japan and South Korea became powerhouses, it wasn't by allowing sole traders free reign.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
As the option didn't exist when those countries were doing their thing; it's near irrelevant. Thailand's development has certainly not (so far) come close to emulating the success of those nations. Both of which opened their doors to as much foreign expertise as they could get their hands on and paid through the nose for the privilege. I have friends in Japan and South Korea picking up huge pay checks in our industry. The same is not true for Thailand. Compare apples with apples and Thailand's a lot more like China than those two countries.[/quote]
I think you are wrong and aren't really attuned to the cultural aspect. That will override everything. But, we can agree to disagree.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

gray42 · July 20, 2014

... We take no jobs from locals. ...

The only people taking jobs from Thai nationals are the ones they're freely handing out work permits to for only 1,300 baht.

SandyFeet · July 20, 2014

If I go to the US - or to your country of origin - as a tourist, can I do online business there and stay forever?

Thailand has lots of visas, exemptions and rules that other countries do not have. It is an apples and oranges comparison. Thailand is not the US, and enacts immigration rules and laws specific to its own circumstances.

The relevant questions, and they are open ones, are

1. which of these online freelancers is beneficial to Thailand's economy
2. how to accomodate them
3. what the drawbacks are
4. whether the net benefit is great enough to accomodate them
5. what charge or tax to levy

Tough questions to answer indeed and no perfect solution. However, I think the 100K/year elite card rough filter makes a reasonable fist of all 5.

The answer to your tough questions is actually very simple, if Thailand had a need for farang on liners they would create a class of visa/wp for them, they havent done so, and there appears there is no plan to do this, therefore it suggests Thailand doesn't need them, in a similar manner Thailand needs Cambodian and Burmese worker's, so what have they done ? Made it quite easy for them to stay and work in Thailand and get a WP

It's not about what is needed or wanted. There are already a lot of people here doing this. Most of them spend nearly all their income in Thailand - at Thai owned businesses. If they can't do that anymore, it will mean millions of dollars less per month being spent... right in the middle of an already depressed economy.* The truth is these people trying to run the show have no idea what they are doing. They don't seem to have any actual economists or policy makers advising them or studying their proposals. Running a government agency is not easy, even for well-meaning competent people. They don't know what effects this will have on the economy, but I bet your average bar/guesthouse/restaurant/shop owner in BKK, Phuket, Pattaya, Chiang Mai etc. do. People like the OP (and there are a lot of them) spend their money, they just don't tend to spend it at the 5 star resorts and spas that the generals own. And what's the downside? They aren't taking jobs away from Thai people.

*Wanna check my math? Let's assume a conservative 5,000 people doing this in any given month in the whole country, each spending 40,000 baht per month. That's 200,000,000 baht per month, or 6.2 million US dollars. Add in people with rental income and people teaching English to Chinese and Koreans online, and it's probably a lot more than 5000, and I bet they spend a lot more than 40k also. The government is playing with fire, and they have no idea what they're doing

Christie Paul · July 20, 2014

If I go to the US - or to your country of origin - as a tourist, can I do online business there and stay forever?

Thailand has lots of visas, exemptions and rules that other countries do not have. It is an apples and oranges comparison. Thailand is not the US, and enacts immigration rules and laws specific to its own circumstances.

The relevant questions, and they are open ones, are

1. which of these online freelancers is beneficial to Thailand's economy
2. how to accomodate them
3. what the drawbacks are
4. whether the net benefit is great enough to accomodate them
5. what charge or tax to levy

Tough questions to answer indeed and no perfect solution. However, I think the 100K/year elite card rough filter makes a reasonable fist of all 5.

If one doesn't know what to do...just follow the intelligent people.

Despite overcrowding, high costs of living, pollution and general stress. Hong Kong has become a magnet for young entrepreneurs. Immigration is simple and straightforward. Being legal is generally easy. Now get to work.
I believe you still need to prove you will make a significant contribution to the Hk economy. Just buying things that you are consuming yourself probably isn't significant.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I have incorporation's in both Hong Kong and Thailand. The set up in Hong Kong is a dream. The set up in Thailand is a liability.

Oceanbat · July 20, 2014

[quote name="Christie Paul" post="8127328" timestamp="1405848075"][quote name="Oceanbat" post="8127010" timestamp="1405843537"] [quote name="Christie Paul" post="8126968" timestamp="1405842808"] [quote name="JomtienEats" post="8126915" timestamp="1405841864"] [quote name="Oceanbat" post="8126134" timestamp="1405829154"]If I go to the US - or to your country of origin - as a tourist, can I do online business there and stay forever?[/quote]Thailand has lots of visas, exemptions and rules that other countries do not have. It is an apples and oranges comparison. Thailand is not the US, and enacts immigration rules and laws specific to its own circumstances.

The relevant questions, and they are open ones, are

1. which of these online freelancers is beneficial to Thailand's economy
2. how to accomodate them
3. what the drawbacks are
4. whether the net benefit is great enough to accomodate them
5. what charge or tax to levy

Tough questions to answer indeed and no perfect solution. However, I think the 100K/year elite card rough filter makes a reasonable fist of all 5.
[/quote]
If one doesn't know what to do...just follow the intelligent people.

Despite overcrowding, high costs of living, pollution and general stress. Hong Kong has become a magnet for young entrepreneurs. Immigration is simple and straightforward. Being legal is generally easy. Now get to work. [/quote]I believe you still need to prove you will make a significant contribution to the Hk economy. Just buying things that you are consuming yourself probably isn't significant.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
[/quote]

I have incorporation's in both Hong Kong and Thailand. The set up in Hong Kong is a dream. The set up in Thailand is a liability. [/quote]
Sounds like you are doing it properly.

OB

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Christie Paul · July 20, 2014

This is just a joke people….

It’s all made up. Nothing serious here - just a conspiracy based story line - just for the purposes for entertainment, all the characters are fictional…..

Meanwhile, on the 47th floor of a skyscraper on Victoria Island a meeting of government officials and industry leaders is taking place.

Mr Woo: I am concerned about Hong Kong's ability to attract International talent. Out living costs are high, the environment is polluted and the stress levels are unattractive.

Mr Chen: We are doing our best to make immigration rules streamlined, company regulations attractive and putting up as few obstructions as possible to attract people and talent.

Mr Woo: I'm still concerned. The superior quality of life, climate and low overheads of countries like Thailand will decimate us. Who would want to operate in Hong Kong against a comparative paradise like Thailand or Indonesia?

Mr Zhang: Don't worry gentleman. The matter is in hand. Their immigration set up is an ongoing fiasco of confusion. This unsettles people and makes them insecure. And their corporate regulations ensure that running a business is a complete nightmare.

Mr Woo: And what about the internet? It is still being throttled?

Mr Zhang: Fortunately, yes.

Mr Chen: And do you think all this will remain in place? Won’t they wake up and realise what’s going on?

Mr Zhang: You never can tell. But so far all goes well. Incorporations are on the up and up. Bank accounts are increasing and we can barely facilitate the number of start ups.

Mr Woo: So your confident that we’re doing all we can to compete.

Mr Zhang: Yes.

Mr. Chen: All right then gentlemen, till next we meet. By the way Mr Zhang any plans for the weekend?

Mr Zhang: I’m going to Thailand.

Mr Woo: Me too, what a coincidence!

Mr Chen: I hear there waiving visa fees for Chinese.

The whole room breaks out into laughter.

Soutpeel · July 20, 2014

The answer to your tough questions is actually very simple,

It's a hugely complex question that touches many areas, new-economy ecosystem development and skills/knowledge transfer being the most important. Very difficult to tell how any new immigration initiaves affect this. If you think it's simple, you're not seeing the bigger picture.

Why are you quoting my post out of context ? and not even responding to the point I was making ?

If Thailand wanted the "on liner" one man band types of worker, surely they would make a visa class/WP for those types of workers ?

The BOI does make provision for IT realated set ups, but they want companies, not indivduals

One of the favorite comments on TV, is that Thai's are greedy and hungry for money above all else, so surely if the on-liner fraterity provided the ecomonic benefits as some suggest on this thread to Thailand, then surely they would be welcoming them with open arms so why no provision under the immigration/labour rules ?

please give me an example of how the typical on-liner, one man band, transfers skills and knowlege, if you read this post, it seems for the most part they dont want to employ people, so how is this skills/knowlelge transfer taking place into the Thai population ? psychic channeling ?

The answer is very simple, as stated, its very easy to see who is and isnt needed/wanted in Thailand or any country for that matter, look at the immigration/labours laws, if someone is really required they will make process relatively easy... ie Cambodian/Burmese workers for those who are not harder.

In the big scheme of things related to economic delevope of Thailand, on liner, one man bands are not even a blip on the radar.

One suspects its you thats not seeing the big picture...

JLCrab · July 20, 2014

As the Texans say 'I have no dog in this hunt'. My incorporation is in the USA and it is NGO status.

Reading posts from some active in the region I get the impression that Thailand is myopic in its lack of accommodation to the independent trader that they claim is flourishing elsewhere. Maybe they are right. But I don't think anyone has offered a reasonable explanation why that is so other than the Thai officialdom has its collective head up its -ss and has overly protectionist policies.

That may also be true. They may have some other reason that escapes those offering that explanation but time will tell. But again, not my problem.

pistachios · July 20, 2014

As the Texans say 'I have no dog in this hunt'. My incorporation is in the USA and it is NGO status.

Reading posts from some active in the region I get the impression that Thailand is myopic in its lack of accommodation to the independent trader that they claim is flourishing elsewhere. Maybe they are right. But I don't think anyone has offered a reasonable explanation why that is so other than the Thai officialdom has its collective head up its -ss and has overly protectionist policies.

That may also be true. They may have some other reason that escapes those offering that explanation but time will tell. But again, not my problem.

Maybe they realise that they could give some kind of work permit for onliners for a few thousands people. That would not in itself hurt anyway the thai economy, on the contrary.

But at the same time that would open the door for all the normal business owners to switch to this kind of work permit, bypassing the 4 employees law. All the illegal touts, divemasters, shady time share or real estate agents, russian whores, etc. that thailand want to get rid of would also rush to get this mean to stay in the country without hassle.

Edited July 20, 2014 by pistachios

Soutpeel · July 20, 2014

If I go to the US - or to your country of origin - as a tourist, can I do online business there and stay forever?

Thailand has lots of visas, exemptions and rules that other countries do not have. It is an apples and oranges comparison. Thailand is not the US, and enacts immigration rules and laws specific to its own circumstances.

The relevant questions, and they are open ones, are

1. which of these online freelancers is beneficial to Thailand's economy
2. how to accomodate them
3. what the drawbacks are
4. whether the net benefit is great enough to accomodate them
5. what charge or tax to levy

Tough questions to answer indeed and no perfect solution. However, I think the 100K/year elite card rough filter makes a reasonable fist of all 5.

The answer to your tough questions is actually very simple, if Thailand had a need for farang on liners they would create a class of visa/wp for them, they havent done so, and there appears there is no plan to do this, therefore it suggests Thailand doesn't need them, in a similar manner Thailand needs Cambodian and Burmese worker's, so what have they done ? Made it quite easy for them to stay and work in Thailand and get a WP

It's not about what is needed or wanted. There are already a lot of people here doing this. Most of them spend nearly all their income in Thailand - at Thai owned businesses. If they can't do that anymore, it will mean millions of dollars less per month being spent... right in the middle of an already depressed economy.* The truth is these people trying to run the show have no idea what they are doing. They don't seem to have any actual economists or policy makers advising them or studying their proposals. Running a government agency is not easy, even for well-meaning competent people. They don't know what effects this will have on the economy, but I bet your average bar/guesthouse/restaurant/shop owner in BKK, Phuket, Pattaya, Chiang Mai etc. do. People like the OP (and there are a lot of them) spend their money, they just don't tend to spend it at the 5 star resorts and spas that the generals own. And what's the downside? They aren't taking jobs away from Thai people.

*Wanna check my math? Let's assume a conservative 5,000 people doing this in any given month in the whole country, each spending 40,000 baht per month. That's 200,000,000 baht per month, or 6.2 million US dollars. Add in people with rental income and people teaching English to Chinese and Koreans online, and it's probably a lot more than 5000, and I bet they spend a lot more than 40k also. The government is playing with fire, and they have no idea what they're doing

Ok, so seeing as there is all this money being spent, why is the no provision for on liners then, TV finest keep tellig Thai are greedy for money, thats all that matters... so by extension, they should be welcoming them with open arms

fact is Cambodians and Burmese find it easier to be legal in Thailand than an onliner, speaks volumes to me

Burmese/Cambodians - employed in the construction industry, building roads/condo's and other infra structure and spending far less money in Thailand, than the people you refer to in your post, but yet they are "welcomed"/wanted, but the so called "big spenders" 40k/m... are not ?

Thailands priority at the moment is building roads, schools, "hard" infrasructure, what are the typical on liners doing ?.... flogging sh*t on ebay to make next months rent, will not , can not afford to set up companies and dont want to employ Thai nationals... one can kinda see their point ?

(my apologies to the IT guys, who have legimate companies in Thailand, my remarks are not directed at you)

finy · July 20, 2014

Can't believe this thread is still going on, but since we're bringing up different categories of freelancer I'd like to offer my uneducated advice:

Freelancers working for a company with valid work permit - Good on you, enjoy yourself in Thailand.

Freelancers doing some writing/programming/designing on the side to pay the bills while they build their own business - Go somewhere else like Vietnam, Cambodia, or Indo. When you've built up your company you'll have the money to do/go/prove anything.

Freelancers just paying the bills while living the high life (the new TELF/divemaster if you will) - Stay wherever you are and try to last as long as you can before you're forced back into the real world (kicked out of Thailand)

Soutpeel · July 20, 2014

Can't believe this thread is still going on, but since we're bringing up different categories of freelancer I'd like to offer my uneducated advice:

Freelancers working for a company with valid work permit - Good on you, enjoy yourself in Thailand.

Freelancers doing some writing/programming/designing on the side to pay the bills while they build their own business - Go somewhere else like Vietnam, Cambodia, or Indo. When you've built up your company you'll have the money to do/go/prove anything.

Freelancers just paying the bills while living the high life (the new TELF/divemaster if you will) - Stay wherever you are and try to last as long as you can before you're forced back into the real world (kicked out of Thailand)

I must say that rather sums things up nicely

CharlieH · July 20, 2014

A number of posts and replies removed.

7) Respect fellow members by posting in a civil manner: do not launch personal attacks, or be hateful or insulting towards other members, ie No flaming

pokerspiv · August 8, 2014

You still don't get it? Why would a country create a visa class for a small minority of people who don't add much value to the country.

You mean like retirees? Good question.

What makes retirees different from online workers, other than their age?

DrTuner · August 8, 2014

What makes retirees different from online workers, other than their age?

Guaranteed income.

Pattaya46 · August 8, 2014

What makes retirees different from online workers, other than their age?
Guaranteed income.

In DreamLand, maybe...
In real word many people have very few incomes and absolutely no guaranty of one...

pokerspiv · August 8, 2014

What makes retirees different from online workers, other than their age?

Guaranteed income.

Being retired doesn't guarantee you an income buddy. Especially if you are only 50. They are required to prove their income to get extensions. No reason online workers could not be asked the same.

TheSpade · August 10, 2014

Why would a digital nomad, i.e. someone who tends to be young, free, single, independent and loves to travel and live in different places want to stump up 500,000B upfront for a card in a politically unstable country that they may not want to live in 1 year down the line let alone 5.

Digital NOMAD.

Unlike a lot of the retirees who are stuck in Thailand and have little option to go elsewhere due to a dwindling amount of cash and no possibility to earn more these people tend to have options, regular funds coming in, and a desire to explore.

And where did this idea that they are all claiming to be rich hot shots come from? Some people make a lot of money online and some do not but none are claiming to be a hot shot.

Just guys and girls doing their thing online and making their own way in the world without having to rely on others to tell them what to do and pay them a wage.

Edited August 10, 2014 by TheSpade

ATF · August 10, 2014

Why would a digital nomad, i.e. someone who tends to be young, free, single, independent and loves to travel and live in different places want to stump up 500,000B upfront for a card in a politically unstable country that they may not want to live in 1 year down the line let alone 5.

Digital NOMAD.

Unlike a lot of the retirees who are stuck in Thailand and have little option to go elsewhere due to a dwindling amount of cash and no possibility to earn more these people tend to have options, regular funds coming in, and a desire to explore.

And where did this idea that they are all claiming to be rich hot shots come from? Some people make a lot of money online and some do not but none are claiming to be a hot shot.

Just guys and girls doing their thing online and making their own way in the world without having to rely on others to tell them what to do and pay them a wage.

Unless you are paying tax somewhere you are guilty of tax evasion which is a serious crime. Just because everything is digital is no excuse. Thailand may have the occasional political blip but politicians do not run a government, Civil Servants do. In this respect Thailand's rule of law is as stable as just about any country in the World.

You may not agree but thousands of multi-national corporations do.

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