Korat Immigration, Beware.

[Ken]

I'm posting this for my friend "koratsteve". Yesterday he and his wife went to the Korat Immigration office for the purpose of getting a "letter" from them showing his Korat address. The purpose is he wants to get a Thai Driving license. His visa situation: he is here on a non-immigrant o, 90 day stays, and he travels in and out of Thailand to England as he works in England. He has been married to his current wife approximately 6 years and they own a house in Korat (Well she does anyway ) At the immigration office yesterday, his wife was informed that she was in violation of the law and the fine was to be 800 Baht. The reason is that she had failed to register a foreigner as staying in her house within 24 hours of his arrival.

"They were very nice about it", he says. They indicated that if they had come to their house and caught this that the fine would be 1,600 Baht. They also indicated that if he didn't want the "letter" they would "forget about the fine this time". At any rate he wanted the letter as it was still cheaper than going to Bangkok to his embassy for a letter. He will try and get his license today with the said letter. His wife told me that if the Korat license bureau doesn't accept the letter then I owed her 800 Baht, as I was the one who suggested that it could be done this way.

I have to wonder how many others are in violation or is this just a "Korat" thing.

[bdenner]

Some strange laws are enacted in immigration offices through out the country, I’ve never heard of such a thing in the Udon Thani/Nong Khai provinces over the past 5 years.

No letter no fine is really bizarre

[utapaortnab]

Ken,

Thank you for posting this. I plan to do the very same thing (apply for my Thai driving licence) here in Chiayaphum and had planned to also get my name placed on the family tambon so I can change over from my/our O visas in Sept to Retirement visas if we want.

My wife Rattana (Lat) has an expired Thai passport, which she used to enter the U.S. when we moved there from Apr 1996-Oct 2005, including visits back to Thailand up until she obtained her American citizenship and her American passport. (We are both on O visas), and she also has her new Thai ID card, which she got AFTER we returned to Chiayaphum last Oct 2005, so I wonder if any "fines" will be levelled at us????

I'll post a reply to this thread once we go through the process.

Ken and Lat Bower

19/1 Moo 2, Ban Sakinam, Gudtum

Chiayaphum, 36000, Thailand

Cell PH: 06-090-8686

//email removed//

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm posting this for my friend "koratsteve". Yesterday he and his wife went to the Korat Immigration office for the purpose of getting a "letter" from them showing his Korat address. The purpose is he wants to get a Thai Driving license. His visa situation: he is here on a non-immigrant o, 90 day stays, and he travels in and out of Thailand to England as he works in England. He has been married to his current wife approximately 6 years and they own a house in Korat (Well she does anyway ) At the immigration office yesterday, his wife was informed that she was in violation of the law and the fine was to be 800 Baht. The reason is that she had failed to register a foreigner as staying in her house within 24 hours of his arrival.

"They were very nice about it", he says. They indicated that if they had come to their house and caught this that the fine would be 1,600 Baht. They also indicated that if he didn't want the "letter" they would "forget about the fine this time". At any rate he wanted the letter as it was still cheaper than going to Bangkok to his embassy for a letter. He will try and get his license today with the said letter. His wife told me that if the Korat license bureau doesn't accept the letter then I owed her 800 Baht, as I was the one who suggested that it could be done this way.

I have to wonder how many others are in violation or is this just a "Korat" thing.

[ThaiRanger]

Ken,

Thank you for posting this. I plan to do the very same thing (apply for my Thai driving licence) here in Chiayaphum and had planned to also get my name placed on the family tambon so I can change over from my/our O visas in Sept to Retirement visas if we want.

My wife Rattana (Lat) has an expired Thai passport, which she used to enter the U.S. when we moved there from Apr 1996-Oct 2005, including visits back to Thailand up until she obtained her American citizenship and her American passport. (We are both on O visas), and she also has her new Thai ID card, which she got AFTER we returned to Chiayaphum last Oct 2005, so I wonder if any "fines" will be levelled at us????

I'll post a reply to this thread once we go through the process.

Ken and Lat Bower

19/1 Moo 2, Ban Sakinam, Gudtum

Chiayaphum, 36000, Thailand

Cell PH: 06-090-8686

//email removed//

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm posting this for my friend "koratsteve". Yesterday he and his wife went to the Korat Immigration office for the purpose of getting a "letter" from them showing his Korat address. The purpose is he wants to get a Thai Driving license. His visa situation: he is here on a non-immigrant o, 90 day stays, and he travels in and out of Thailand to England as he works in England. He has been married to his current wife approximately 6 years and they own a house in Korat (Well she does anyway ) At the immigration office yesterday, his wife was informed that she was in violation of the law and the fine was to be 800 Baht. The reason is that she had failed to register a foreigner as staying in her house within 24 hours of his arrival.

"They were very nice about it", he says. They indicated that if they had come to their house and caught this that the fine would be 1,600 Baht. They also indicated that if he didn't want the "letter" they would "forget about the fine this time". At any rate he wanted the letter as it was still cheaper than going to Bangkok to his embassy for a letter. He will try and get his license today with the said letter. His wife told me that if the Korat license bureau doesn't accept the letter then I owed her 800 Baht, as I was the one who suggested that it could be done this way.

I have to wonder how many others are in violation or is this just a "Korat" thing.

Ken And Lat

My wife and I have a similar situation Wife US citizen now has Dual citizenship with Thai ID and Thai Passport. We will be going to BKK for extension of retirement VISA Monday. we have always have had great luck down there with no problems but the Korat immigration office has given me reason to wonder. She has been here about 4 years this time and when I went to report my 90 address in Korat they nailed her for never having filed a 90 day report. The lady in BKK told her for the last four years there was no need to this as she was a Thai and got an automatic one year extension evrytime see asked. Last time I was there the Lady even suggest that we renew hers a few months early so we would only have to report o BKK once a year together. It will be no big thing for us to report every 90 days together in Korat but strange. They were kind enough not to fine us for the last four years in Korat. I will be interested in how you and Lat make out also, so keep us posted. Looking forward to meeting you on the 29th Birthday bash in Non Thai.

Al and Lek

Thai Ranger

[lopburi3]

Immigration normally only issues such letters when you are here on an extension of stay and doing 90 day address reports so it appears they were doing an 800 baht favor - wife (home owner) makes the required, but seldom done (outside of hotels), report and immigration provides address verification on that basis.

[Ken]

Immigration normally only issues such letters when you are here on an extension of stay and doing 90 day address reports so it appears they were doing an 800 baht favor - wife (home owner) makes the required, but seldom done (outside of hotels), report and immigration provides address verification on that basis.

Lopuburi3, that's an interesting "take" on what happened. Didn't know that such letters were only "normally" issued for people on extensions, but if indeed that is the case then now it does make some sense (in a Thai logical way).

And by the way, happy to report "koratsteve" was successful in getting his motorcycle and car driving license using said letter. Saved 800 Baht that his wife was going to come after me for if things hadn't worked out.

[citizen33]

I don't know if I have missed something, but my understanding is that there is no dual citizenship allowed for adult Thais. Children can hold both a Thai and foreign passport but must choose which country's citizenship to hold when they attain the age of majority. The prohibition on dual citizenship from the Thai side strikes me as one of the big injustices oif the current legal set up. This is what is deterring my wife from applying for UK citizenship, and I'd be very interested to hear if I am wrong. I am aware that quite a lot of UK-resident Thai wives do in fact have two passports, but I understood that this is not legitimate and can lead to loss of Thai citizenship.

[Ken]

I don't know if I have missed something, but my understanding is that there is no dual citizenship allowed for adult Thais. Children can hold both a Thai and foreign passport but must choose which country's citizenship to hold when they attain the age of majority. The prohibition on dual citizenship from the Thai side strikes me as one of the big injustices oif the current legal set up. This is what is deterring my wife from applying for UK citizenship, and I'd be very interested to hear if I am wrong. I am aware that quite a lot of UK-resident Thai wives do in fact have two passports, but I understood that this is not legitimate and can lead to loss of Thai citizenship.

I would say you are miss-informed. As you correctly pointed out there are many Thai's with two passports, ie dual citizens. There are numerous threads on Thaivisa that confirm that this is a "legitimate" thing to do. A quick search and I came up with this fairly recent link on TV: Thai dual citizenship It should allay any of your fears.

[dutch]

I don't know if I have missed something, but my understanding is that there is no dual citizenship allowed for adult Thais. Children can hold both a Thai and foreign passport but must choose which country's citizenship to hold when they attain the age of majority. The prohibition on dual citizenship from the Thai side strikes me as one of the big injustices oif the current legal set up. This is what is deterring my wife from applying for UK citizenship, and I'd be very interested to hear if I am wrong. I am aware that quite a lot of UK-resident Thai wives do in fact have two passports, but I understood that this is not legitimate and can lead to loss of Thai citizenship.

I would say you are miss-informed. As you correctly pointed out there are many Thai's with two passports, ie dual citizens. There are numerous threads on Thaivisa that confirm that this is a "legitimate" thing to do. A quick search and I came up with this fairly recent link on TV: Thai dual citizenship It should allay any of your fears.

With dual citizenship it is depending on TWO countries.

In my case f.e. it was only since 1 april 2003 that Dutch government did allow a Thai wife of a Dutch citizen to have two passports.

Edited June 30, 2006 by dutch

[koratsteve]

Ken,

The way the immigration officer explained things to me was that irrelevant of what visa a Farang is on if he stays in a private house it is the responsibility of the registered owner of that property to inform the immigration or local police that they have a foreigner staying there, this must be done within 24 hours of arrival, if you fail to do this and present you’re self to the immigration police after 24 hours the fine is 800 baht, or if you fail to contact them and they catch you the fine is 1600 baht.

So every time you have a buddy staying at you’re house you are breaking the law.

I as you know have lived in Thailand on and off for the last 14 years or so and have made many visa extensions etc without ever having this brought to my attention before.

My wife seems to think that it was just a charge for the free letter, but there was a lot of paper work and receipts involved so I’m not so sure.

In the end paying 800 baht to get the letter for my driving license application was still a lot cheaper that having to go to the British embassy in BKK.

On another note I remember reading that the girl in the Jo Ho licensing office was very cute and very helpful, I can confirm that I found this to be correct on both counts and when my license expires in 12 months I will be leaving the wife at home when I go to renew it.

[citizen33]

Ken,

Thanks very much for your comment and the interesting link: there are posts both ways but on balance I think you are probably right. I have found other links, on Thai/Malay dual citizenship, which seem to indicate that Thai Ministers accept that legitimate dual nationality can exist Also lookng at an English version of the Nationality Act, it seems that renounciation of nationality by Thai wives acquiring foreign nationality may be something they can elect to do or not do. However, the section that leaves doubts in my mind is the one about children born in Thailand of alien fathers. Look in particular at the preamble of s17 read with subsection 2, and also the final provision.

Section 17. With respect to a person who has Thai nationality, by reason of his having been born within the Thai Kingdom of an alien father, his Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that:

(1) He has resided in a foreign country, of which his father has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years as from the day of his becoming sui juris;

(2) There is evidence to show that he makes use of the nationality of his father or of a foreign nationality, or that he has an active interest in the nationality of his father or in a foreign nationality;

(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting with the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;

(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.

The Minister in the event of (1) or (2), and the Court in the event of (3) or (4) and upon request of the public prosecutor, shall order the revocation of Thai nationality

I am aware that slight variations in translation may change the meaning of this passage or for that matter the one on wives. I will see if my Thai friend with a Law degree knows the answer.

[Cheeky Farang]

Ok, I had my Mrs Phone the Immigration office in Korat and asked her to glean all the info from them. She confirms that Immigration MUST be informed of a farangs arrival within a 24hour period of arrival.

Her email to me here, “them say I have to tell them every time when you come in 24 hour the law is if I not tell them I have to pay 800 baht and I have to go tell them not fax or email. Them say they cheking how many farang stay in Korat because no one do yet” excuse her grammar.

Strange they said “checking how many farang are staying in Korat” any one any ideas about this one?

CF

[Ken]

......

Strange they said “checking how many farang are staying in Korat” any one any ideas about this one?

CF

CF: I'm only "guessing" on this, but based on the context of the rest of the email, I would say that they are now starting to check on the "status" of Farang who live in Korat (or surrounding area).

Have to wonder also if my wife is supposed to report that I live at her house, even though I report the address every 90 days as I'm on an extension of visa.

[ray23]

Strange they said “checking how many farang are staying in Korat” any one any ideas about this one?

CF

Well I think this is the magic answer, a valid law, choosen enforcement, for a specific purpose.

It's interesting the the Thai is being required to do the reporting, usually it's just us with the requirements.

The simple answer comply, the other report to a diffierent office.

There are many unenforced laws just about anywhere you go, but they are valid laws and can be enforced. Each immigration office and indeed each officer seems to be in the position of interputing intent within law. Me I would just take the wife down and report, there really doesn't seem to be malious intent. But thats just me

[Gumballl]

Does a Thai spouse have to report if her husband is merely "visiting" for a couple of weeks. This small period of time does not really constitute "living".

When I used to live in BKK, nobody registered me with immigration. I did it myself when I entered the country (every 90 days). I was on a tourist visa, hence I was once again, not "living" in LOS.... just vacationing.

Edited July 3, 2006 by Gumballl

[mpdkorat]

Ok, I had my Mrs Phone the Immigration office in Korat and asked her to glean all the info from them. She confirms that Immigration MUST be informed of a farangs arrival within a 24hour period of arrival.

Her email to me here, “them say I have to tell them every time when you come in 24 hour the law is if I not tell them I have to pay 800 baht and I have to go tell them not fax or email. Them say they cheking how many farang stay in Korat because no one do yet” excuse her grammar.

Strange they said “checking how many farang are staying in Korat” any one any ideas about this one?

CF

Really this law has been around for a long time. My Landlady in Pattaya registered me. Maybe the Korat office have been told to inforce it?

[koratsteve]

Ok, I had my Mrs Phone the Immigration office in Korat and asked her to glean all the info from them. She confirms that Immigration MUST be informed of a farangs arrival within a 24hour period of arrival.

Her email to me here, “them say I have to tell them every time when you come in 24 hour the law is if I not tell them I have to pay 800 baht and I have to go tell them not fax or email. Them say they cheking how many farang stay in Korat because no one do yet” excuse her grammar.

Strange they said “checking how many farang are staying in Korat” any one any ideas about this one?

CF

I do not think that the Korat immigration are out looking for people to fine, They gave my wife the option of walking away and notifying them the next time I arrived but as I needed the letter for my driving license application I thought it would be cheaper to pay the fine to get the letter.

The immigration officer did show me a pile of papers with pictures of Farang on which he said that they had fined after they had come to the immigration office.

I asked him if I had a friend come and stay for a few days would my wife have to report him, his answer was yes.

In my opinion the only way you get caught out was if you went to the office or had a run in with the local police for some reason ( note that the fine is 1600 baht if you do not turn yourself in).

In the future my wife will be notifying them of my arrival as a matter of course but if anyone is worried about being caught out I think the chances are very slim but I would recommend that the next time you do a visa run etc it would be worth paying them a visit within 24 hours of you’re arrival in Korat

[Cheeky Farang]

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...?page=alienstay

Link Here

According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, "House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national." If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station. In Bangkok the notification is made to the Immigration Bureau. The notification of residence of foreign nationals is made by the manager of licensed hotels according to the hotel act, owners of guesthouses, mansions, apartments and rented houses using the form TM. 30.

The notification of residence of foreign nationals within 24 hours can be made in a number of ways to make the notification as convenient as possible:

[Lazykhao]

Ken,

Thanks very much for your comment and the interesting link: there are posts both ways but on balance I think you are probably right. I have found other links, on Thai/Malay dual citizenship, which seem to indicate that Thai Ministers accept that legitimate dual nationality can exist Also lookng at an English version of the Nationality Act, it seems that renounciation of nationality by Thai wives acquiring foreign nationality may be something they can elect to do or not do. However, the section that leaves doubts in my mind is the one about children born in Thailand of alien fathers. Look in particular at the preamble of s17 read with subsection 2, and also the final provision.

Section 17. With respect to a person who has Thai nationality, by reason of his having been born within the Thai Kingdom of an alien father, his Thai nationality may be revoked if it appears that:

(1) He has resided in a foreign country, of which his father has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years as from the day of his becoming sui juris;

(2) There is evidence to show that he makes use of the nationality of his father or of a foreign nationality, or that he has an active interest in the nationality of his father or in a foreign nationality;

(3) He commits any act prejudicial to the security or conflicting with the interests of the State, or amounting to an insult to the nation;

(4) He commits any act contrary to public order or good morals.

The Minister in the event of (1) or (2), and the Court in the event of (3) or (4) and upon request of the public prosecutor, shall order the revocation of Thai nationality

I am aware that slight variations in translation may change the meaning of this passage or for that matter the one on wives. I will see if my Thai friend with a Law degree knows the answer.

Thailand does recognise dual nationality. If you look through Thaivisa immigration forums you can easily satisfy yourself of this. I know people with Thai/British, Thai/German Thai/US citizenship.

Section 17 of the immigration act does not apply in your case because your child has Thai nationality by virtue of having a Thai mother. Section 17 refers to an earlier part of the act which, in certain circumstances, grants Thai nationality to a child born in Thailand to parents both of whom are aliens (e.g where the father has permanent residency status).

Another section of the Act has caused much confusion as it is badly translated into english.

It appears to read that Thai law requires dual nationals to revoke Thai citizenship at age 20 if they wish to retain citizenship of another country. This is absolutely not the case.

The Act lays down the procedure where the OTHER country requires a Thai to revoke Thai citizenship as a condition of retaining or obtaining citizenship of that OTHER country. This used to be the case with USA.

A Thai national can voluntarily request revocation of Thai citzenship at age 20 if he holds dual nationality or if he is applying for nationality of another country.

Edited July 6, 2006 by Lazykhao