AYJAYDEE Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 here was another thread about 8 people who were refused entry at that checkpoint and told to go back to KL and fly to BKK. and there was no indication that they were on 2nd entries of existing visas.for those trying to work out rules. The golden rule is allowing someone into any country is discretionary. We are seeing the beginnings of severe turbulence. But this will not affect people who come to Thailand for a two month holiday every year. Time to stop being so complacent to think you can rely on rules. If you're trying to work out the application of rules you've been here to long and not welcome is my guess. That's why I have chosen other ASEAN counties that allow residence on tourist visas. as i have seen absolutely no indication that there will be any restrictions on double and triple tourist visas or multiple non-o's, i dont consider myself complacent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilocos Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 here was another thread about 8 people who were refused entry at that checkpoint and told to go back to KL and fly to BKK. and there was no indication that they were on 2nd entries of existing visas. for those trying to work out rules. The golden rule is allowing someone into any country is discretionary. We are seeing the beginnings of severe turbulence. But this will not affect people who come to Thailand for a two month holiday every year. Time to stop being so complacent to think you can rely on rules. If you're trying to work out the application of rules you've been here to long and not welcome is my guess. That's why I have chosen other ASEAN counties that allow residence on tourist visas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerrysum Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa.condos will be selling for peanuts soonMy thoughts exactly, thanks for mentioning it....... I am watching a big dumping process in Thailand right now, with properties, unless I'm wrong.... It ain't no shang-ri-la....... Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96tehtarp Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 When I first came here and negotiated the visa rules, while married to a Thai. I never had enough money in the bank for either a marriage visa or a retirement visa, so I did what many other foreigners did and that was ro pay a firm to buy the necessary visa for a year, at a cost of about 40,000 baht. After asking around I was able to find someone who could do the same thing for 17,000 baht while I sat in the comfort of my home, I have done this for 6 years now wwith peace of mind but this is my last hurrah, I am going back home before my next visa ransome note is due. It has been a great experience and I hope these well intended foreighners have good luck obtaining a visa I am truly going to miss the LOS Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa. if u could afford 40,000 for a visa, why not spend it on a ticket home once a year and get new non-o multiple entries ? I believe the 40K Bigfarang1948 is referring to is the fee some "agents" charge to secure a 1 year extension of stay without having to provide any documentation other than a passport. Using these agents is quite popular and may be illegal. People I know who use them have all received real extension stamps, (not fake stamps), and had to do 90 reporting as normal. No problems leaving the country at the airport for them either. Don't ask me, I know nothing about who, how, where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYJAYDEE Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 When I first came here and negotiated the visa rules, while married to a Thai. I never had enough money in the bank for either a marriage visa or a retirement visa, so I did what many other foreigners did and that was ro pay a firm to buy the necessary visa for a year, at a cost of about 40,000 baht. After asking around I was able to find someone who could do the same thing for 17,000 baht while I sat in the comfort of my home, I have done this for 6 years now wwith peace of mind but this is my last hurrah, I am going back home before my next visa ransome note is due. It has been a great experience and I hope these well intended foreighners have good luck obtaining a visa I am truly going to miss the LOS Looks like a lot of foreigners are either leaving or will have to get married, have a child or get a retirement visa. if u could afford 40,000 for a visa, why not spend it on a ticket home once a year and get new non-o multiple entries ? I believe the 40K Bigfarang1948 is referring to is the fee some "agents" charge to secure a 1 year extension of stay without having to provide any documentation other than a passport. Using these agents is quite popular and may be illegal. People I know who use them have all received real extension stamps, (not fake stamps), and had to do 90 reporting as normal. No problems leaving the country at the airport for them either. Don't ask me, I know nothing about who, how, where. i know that. and he could afford the 40,000. aticket home wont cost much more and he can get a new non O each year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaPhom Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 A lot of western countries deal with prostitution by targeting the kerb crawlers, maybe this is also a back door way to start dealing with this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilocos Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 i have no problems with not allowing back to back tourist visas and VOA's if that's what they choose to do but my issue is with people being denied at borders. This is what creates the unecessary confusion. The decision on whether someone is a visa runner should be made by the embassy when they apply for a visa and not at a border. I have just got back from London with a new triple entry tourist visa (GBP 75). I have a passport full of tourist visas/VOAs and non-immigrant visas. I have purchased future tickets from Thailand etc based on my being able to stay during the time printed on my visa and also made various plans for trips with friends in Thailand. Now i am in a situation where i don't know if i will be able to return for my second or third entry. If they had denied my visa application at the embassy then i would simply not have travelled to Thailand in the first place. I sincerely wish you luck. But if you have been residing in Thailand more than 183 days in a year the border may decide you have been given tourist visa in error. You would have been better to get a new passport. Good luck anyway. Perhaps embassies are giving visas against wishes of Bangkok and therefore the need to turn back those upon entry to Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYJAYDEE Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 i have no problems with not allowing back to back tourist visas and VOA's if that's what they choose to do but my issue is with people being denied at borders. This is what creates the unecessary confusion. The decision on whether someone is a visa runner should be made by the embassy when they apply for a visa and not at a border. I have just got back from London with a new triple entry tourist visa (GBP 75). I have a passport full of tourist visas/VOAs and non-immigrant visas. I have purchased future tickets from Thailand etc based on my being able to stay during the time printed on my visa and also made various plans for trips with friends in Thailand. Now i am in a situation where i don't know if i will be able to return for my second or third entry. If they had denied my visa application at the embassy then i would simply not have travelled to Thailand in the first place. I sincerely wish you luck. But if you have been residing in Thailand more than 183 days in a year the border may decide you have been given tourist visa in error. You would have been better to get a new passport. Good luck anyway. Perhaps embassies are giving visas against wishes of Bangkok and therefore the need to turn back those upon entry to Thailand. there is no indication that 2nd and third entries will be refused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chickenslegs Posted July 15, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2014 You can't beat a bit of the old In/out - in/out ) But doing it back-to-back is almost impossible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtomtom69 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 i was thinking more of the guy that gets a triple entry once a year for his holiday in thailand and does quick in/outs to do so?? As he does not have a history of back to back tourist visas it should not be a problem. thats what I'm thinking too but things are so confused right now, nothing will surprise me. my sister in laws boyfriend comes on a double entry tourist every year and I'm wondering if he will have to spend a few days in laos to activate the second entry?? hope not. If that's all that was required, a few days away from Thailand a lot of people should be rejoicing as they'd be able to spend just a few days outside of Thailand every 2-3 months and continue to live on essentially back-to-back tourist visas or visa exempt stamps. I don't see what anyone has to fear from spending a few days in Laos or anywhere else between entries on a double or triple entry tourist visa. If you can't afford to spend even 1 day away from Thailand you can't really afford to be in Thailand at all, I'm sorry. I don't think a tourist visa with more than 1 entry was necessarily designed so that you can come back the same day you left to get a new stay. There are reports on another thread about foreigners being told to stay in Malaysia a couple of nights before being allowed re-entry. At least one guy, mike something posted that he disobeyed that order, returned 15 minutes later, was refused and then had to go to Penang anyway. Maybe if he had listened and done what legitimate tourists do, including many that are spending a few months in Thailand to turn a visa or border run into a short holiday away from Thailand, they'd have fewer problems. Met a very nice elderly American man in Vientiane back in March when we were both applying for double entry tourist visas. He was on his second back-to-back one after his previous one issued in LA had just expired. He flew in from Chiang Mai via Bangkok to Vientiane and originally his flight was booked for 2 nights in Vientiane. Even though he had never been there and enjoyed his stay (we spent some time together for lunch the first day and then most of the afternoon from the time we got our passports back on the second day, until his return flight that evening) it turned out that although his flight was actually scheduled for the following day at 6pm, he couldn't stand the thought of spending another day there even though I just decided to extend my own stay in Vientiane for another day, to 4 days. With that attitude of only staying away the bare minimum time some folks may be very disappointed with the interpretation of these regulations and find themselves shafted. Therefore, I'd recommend staying a few days away from Thailand in between border runs even on a double or triple entry tourist visa. However, what's unclear is if a few days away is going to be enough - returning the same day is clearly not going to be tolerated anymore for visa exempt entries and for some entrants on tourist visas, even if they spent 2-3 days away obtaining these visas - that's because they have been spending very little time outside of Thailand overall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AYJAYDEE Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 i was thinking more of the guy that gets a triple entry once a year for his holiday in thailand and does quick in/outs to do so?? As he does not have a history of back to back tourist visas it should not be a problem. thats what I'm thinking too but things are so confused right now, nothing will surprise me. my sister in laws boyfriend comes on a double entry tourist every year and I'm wondering if he will have to spend a few days in laos to activate the second entry?? hope not. If that's all that was required, a few days away from Thailand a lot of people should be rejoicing as they'd be able to spend just a few days outside of Thailand every 2-3 months and continue to live on essentially back-to-back tourist visas or visa exempt stamps. I don't see what anyone has to fear from spending a few days in Laos or anywhere else between entries on a double or triple entry tourist visa. If you can't afford to spend even 1 day away from Thailand you can't really afford to be in Thailand at all, I'm sorry. I don't think a tourist visa with more than 1 entry was necessarily designed so that you can come back the same day you left to get a new stay. There are reports on another thread about foreigners being told to stay in Malaysia a couple of nights before being allowed re-entry. At least one guy, mike something posted that he disobeyed that order, returned 15 minutes later, was refused and then had to go to Penang anyway. Maybe if he had listened and done what legitimate tourists do, including many that are spending a few months in Thailand to turn a visa or border run into a short holiday away from Thailand, they'd have fewer problems. Met a very nice elderly American man in Vientiane back in March when we were both applying for double entry tourist visas. He was on his second back-to-back one after his previous one issued in LA had just expired. He flew in from Chiang Mai via Bangkok to Vientiane and originally his flight was booked for 2 nights in Vientiane. Even though he had never been there and enjoyed his stay (we spent some time together for lunch the first day and then most of the afternoon from the time we got our passports back on the second day, until his return flight that evening) it turned out that although his flight was actually scheduled for the following day at 6pm, he couldn't stand the thought of spending another day there even though I just decided to extend my own stay in Vientiane for another day, to 4 days. With that attitude of only staying away the bare minimum time some folks may be very disappointed with the interpretation of these regulations and find themselves shafted. Therefore, I'd recommend staying a few days away from Thailand in between border runs even on a double or triple entry tourist visa. However, what's unclear is if a few days away is going to be enough - returning the same day is clearly not going to be tolerated anymore for visa exempt entries and for some entrants on tourist visas, even if they spent 2-3 days away obtaining these visas - that's because they have been spending very little time outside of Thailand overall. probably safer altho our cambodia crossing is pretty desolate and hard to get decent transportation to and from. as he only comes once a year it isnt like he spends little time outside thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post seancbk Posted July 15, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2014 no one is condeming anyone for undone paperwork. its the folks that have been doing the 30 day visa exemption run that some seem so down on I'll add that it sure was a lot of fun doing those visa runs. I'll miss them. Some of my best memories in Thailand are from one of many trips to various border crossing getting my in-out 30 day exemptions. It was a hoot. The OP confirms those days are over. The worst things I've ever done since living in Thailand were the 3 visa runs to Laos. Vientiane itself is quite nice and yes I met some nice people, but the trip in the mini van and back was hell. I have sworn that unless I have absolutely no choice, I will never ever go in a mini van that is has a deadline to meet. The drivers of those things should all be banned from driving for life. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Deerhunter Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 What I find unbelievable is their statement that stopping the visa run people will reduce crime! Personally, I doubt very much that any of the visa run people are criminals. If they are working without a WP, then they are technically and simply breaking the law. People who break the laws are committing crime. People who commit crimes are criminals. The statement is correct but not what you were thinking. I don't think they are suggesting all expats here are robbing banks here or burgling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevWaters Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Can anyone tell me when they are going to stop giving 60 day tourist visas at embassies outside of Thailand. Will these be replaced with 30 day tourist visas? Don't be ridiculous. They will not change the actual 60-days tourist visa.All that just because someone made a report that some officer, in a lost small border office, may have said that... Be serious please. He did say the order came from Bangkok Immigration, can you link me to anything to the contrary? No. I read again and what I find is: "have been ordered by the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok to deny entry to foreigners holding 60-days Tourist visas." He didn't talk about "stop giving 60 days tourist visa" or "replaced with 30 day tourist visas" He also said "Tourists" stay for a maximum of 30 days and not 60 days, which implies that they want to reduce the visa length (if that comment has been passed down by anyone in authority). We'll just have to wait and see, it's anyone's guess at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyinhuahin Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 "condos will be selling for peanuts soon" How many condos are owned by tourist visa runners? Zero. No. I do know property owners who winter here on tourist visa that they stretch or replace to fill a season Or did, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maejo Man Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Have you ever noticed the thousands of Russian "ladies of the night" plying theit trade in Pattaya, Phuket and up and up and down Sukhumvit? They are criminals in the eyes of Thai law. If they are stopped from entering Thailand, they have achieved their goal. I highly doubt that thousands of women from Russia (a country with 3x higher average salary and 3x GDP per capita plus one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world) are coming to Thailand to work as street prostitutes. With due respect, all I can say is that you have not been here long, or walking around with your eyes closed, or cannot tell a Russian hooker from a Russian tourist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilocos Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 It is my opinion only that if fully computerised access by border staff it'll go same way as schengen, 90 days in and 90 days out. Is there any CURRENT immigration notices that support this opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 thats what I'm thinking too but things are so confused right now, nothing will surprise me. my sister in laws boyfriend comes on a double entry tourist every year and I'm wondering if he will have to spend a few days in laos to activate the second entry?? hope not. As he does not have a history of back to back tourist visas it should not be a problem. If that's all that was required, a few days away from Thailand a lot of people should be rejoicing as they'd be able to spend just a few days outside of Thailand every 2-3 months and continue to live on essentially back-to-back tourist visas or visa exempt stamps. I don't see what anyone has to fear from spending a few days in Laos or anywhere else between entries on a double or triple entry tourist visa. If you can't afford to spend even 1 day away from Thailand you can't really afford to be in Thailand at all, I'm sorry. I don't think a tourist visa with more than 1 entry was necessarily designed so that you can come back the same day you left to get a new stay. There are reports on another thread about foreigners being told to stay in Malaysia a couple of nights before being allowed re-entry. At least one guy, mike something posted that he disobeyed that order, returned 15 minutes later, was refused and then had to go to Penang anyway. Maybe if he had listened and done what legitimate tourists do, including many that are spending a few months in Thailand to turn a visa or border run into a short holiday away from Thailand, they'd have fewer problems. Met a very nice elderly American man in Vientiane back in March when we were both applying for double entry tourist visas. He was on his second back-to-back one after his previous one issued in LA had just expired. He flew in from Chiang Mai via Bangkok to Vientiane and originally his flight was booked for 2 nights in Vientiane. Even though he had never been there and enjoyed his stay (we spent some time together for lunch the first day and then most of the afternoon from the time we got our passports back on the second day, until his return flight that evening) it turned out that although his flight was actually scheduled for the following day at 6pm, he couldn't stand the thought of spending another day there even though I just decided to extend my own stay in Vientiane for another day, to 4 days. With that attitude of only staying away the bare minimum time some folks may be very disappointed with the interpretation of these regulations and find themselves shafted. Therefore, I'd recommend staying a few days away from Thailand in between border runs even on a double or triple entry tourist visa. However, what's unclear is if a few days away is going to be enough - returning the same day is clearly not going to be tolerated anymore for visa exempt entries and for some entrants on tourist visas, even if they spent 2-3 days away obtaining these visas - that's because they have been spending very little time outside of Thailand overall. This is a great example of the re-stated requirement for a visa to be "fit for purpose". I doubt that the Thai authorities intended that a tourist visa should be used for a 150 day virtually continuous stay. Sound advice to act like a tourist if you have a tourist visa and 3 or 4 days in neighbouring country is no hardship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 narrithiwat crossing 4 days ago the group coming back from Penang with double entry tourist visas Do you mean the ones with lots of O/I visa stamps in their passports or genuine tourist visas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Don't be ridiculous. They will not change the actual 60-days tourist visa.All that just because someone made a report that some officer, in a lost small border office, may have said that... Be serious please. He did say the order came from Bangkok Immigration, can you link me to anything to the contrary? No. I read again and what I find is: "have been ordered by the Immigration Bureau in Bangkok to deny entry to foreigners holding 60-days Tourist visas." He didn't talk about "stop giving 60 days tourist visa" or "replaced with 30 day tourist visas" He also said "Tourists" stay for a maximum of 30 days and not 60 days, which implies that they want to reduce the visa length (if that comment has been passed down by anyone in authority). We'll just have to wait and see, it's anyone's guess at the moment. Naw, you're just looking for things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilocos Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 narrithiwat crossing 4 days ago the group coming back from Penang with double entry tourist visas Do you mean the ones with lots of O/I visa stamps in their passports or genuine tourist visas? if you're on thai visa looking at this forum i doubt you're a genuine tourist lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Pol Lt-Colonel Weerawat Nilwat claimed that 'Efficiency on this front will also reduce crime,"'. So, much of the country's domestic crime is linked to border runners? Stop them, and see the statistics fall? I shouldn't expect anyone to hold their breath in anticipation, Lt Colonel Weerawat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutone Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 So if an Italian citizen who has absolutely no history of visa runs and arrived in Thailand obtaining a 30 day visa exempt status because he did not have time to get a proper tourist visa, wants to stay here longer than 30 days. Will he be able to travel to Vientianne, Laos get a proper Thai tourist visa from the Thai embassy, and be allowed reentry at the Friendship bridge immigration checkpoint, Nong Khai, into Thailand in order to stay an additional 30 or so days? He will be able to show sufficient funds and plane ticket back to Italy before the expiration of his newly issued tourist visa. This applies to my son-in-law visiting with his Thai wife. They live in Italy and are staying only two months. This is not a visa run in the sense of someone doing it repeatedly in order to stay in Thailand for an indefinite period of time. Before anyone says,"He should have gotten a proper tourist visa before coming." I know, I know, but it just didn't work out this time. Last minute travel plans, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AGareth2 Posted July 15, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2014 When it comes down to it Thais don't really like foriegners Our money is wanted but our persons are not 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AYJAYDEE Posted July 15, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted July 15, 2014 When it comes down to it Thais don't really like foriegners Our money is wanted but our persons are not the thais in my village do 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevWaters Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Wonder what will happen to all those foreigners that are married, have children, but don't have enough money to get a Non-Imm visa based on marriage. Will Immigration start splitting up families? You only need 40K/month for a visa based on marriage or a kid. Even an English teacher makes that. the number's now 65K/month or 800K in the bank or any combo equating to that. Starting English teachers *might* get half that, but then they'd already have a WP ...wouldn't they!!Ah Thailand, Land of Perplexities its 400,000 for those married to a thai Yes, I fall into the category above. Married with a son but earn a little less than 40,000. Teachers are covered by the Work Permit. If I had huge savings I could get a non immigration o visa based on that, and retire :-) wouldn't that be nice! Working visa it is then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilocos Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 So if an Italian citizen who has absolutely no history of visa runs and arrived in Thailand obtaining a 30 day visa exempt status because he did not have time to get a proper tourist visa, wants to stay here longer than 30 days. Will he be able to travel to Vientianne, Laos get a proper Thai tourist visa from the Thai embassy, and be allowed reentry at the Friendship bridge immigration checkpoint, Nong Khai, into Thailand in order to stay an additional 30 or so days? He will be able to show sufficient funds and plane ticket back to Italy before the expiration of his newly issued tourist visa. This applies to my son-in-law visiting with his Thai wife. They live in Italy and are staying only two months. This is not a visa run in the sense of someone doing it repeatedly in order to stay in Thailand for an6 indefinite period of time. Before anyone says,"He should have gotten a proper tourist visa before coming." I know, I know, but it just didn't work out this time. Last minute travel plans, etc. no problem for your son in law. Sleep easy mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benmart Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) A lot of people are going to lose a lot. Including Thais. This is baby with bath water on steroids. Too inflexible and done too fast. It would be OK if there were now easier "real" visas, work permits, including legalization of online freelancing, etc. But there is not. On the condo market, no kidding, this is really bad for places like Pattaya. Cause and effect clearly not well considered on this one. Unfortunate as it my be, those who ignored, scoffed or circumvented the immigration laws, must now comply or leave. The writing has been on the walls for some time. I remember reading past posts saying something along the lines of, "It's (Immigration crackdowns) temporary and things will go back to the way it was before". "They will enforce it for a while and then go back to the same old thing". The cause was most probably due to the person not complying with immigration law and now they must face the effect. I wish luck to those that can apply for the proper visa. For those that cannot, farewell and good luck. Edited July 15, 2014 by Benmart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stgrhe Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 I assume the Out/In that takes place on a double or triple entry tourist visa will not fit the criteria for refusal I wouldn't be so sure about that because the intend with double or triple entry tourist visas are to allow TOURISTS to leave Thailand for a holiday stay in a near by country, e.g. Siem Reap, and then return again for more tourism in Thailand. These tourists do not do in-outs on the same day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyinhuahin Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Have you ever noticed the thousands of Russian "ladies of the night" plying theit trade in Pattaya, Phuket and up and up and down Sukhumvit? They are criminals in the eyes of Thai law. If they are stopped from entering Thailand, they have achieved their goal. I highly doubt that thousands of women from Russia (a country with 3x higher average salary and 3x GDP per capita plus one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world) are coming to Thailand to work as street prostitutes. With due respect, all I can say is that you have not been here long, or walking around with your eyes closed, or cannot tell a Russian hooker from a Russian tourist Statistics deceive, and you can pick yours from any of a number of sources to prove anything you want. Me, I'll go with the tall redhead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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