Out-in visa hoppers now being barred from entry to Thailand

[manolothai]

I really do not understand two facts...

1- If I do not work, my whole life is an holiday... and I like to stay as a turist 4 years....what do they want from me?

2- I am married with a thai lady, they just give me maximum 3 month Non Immigrant visa, what is that? It is a pitance? I'm not begging anyonoe, I am married with a thai! Why only 3 month? No sense... really no sense...

[manolothai]

sorry for multiple posting... browser had problems...

[AYJAYDEE]

So, they basically punish you because you chose to come back to Thailand for a second time.

Because if you can come just once in 2 years it means they HATE REAL TOURISTS and doing so this will cause many people to get an unproper visa, like ED visas for people who are not studying.

I have spent in Thailand 7 months in the past 2 years, if they think I am suspect of working illegaly, by staying 17 months outside and 7 inside that's madness.2012-2013 holidays, total 4 months in Thailand, than 8 months OUTSIDE, 2013-2014 holidays total 3 months in Thailand.

Am I an illegal ??? No, but i will get a red stamp, because i DARED to come back, and this is not acceptable in the country which hates tourists and don't want them to come back , ever, in your lifetime.

I will red stamped because i made the mistake to come back next winter rather than going to Cambodia or Malaysia.

They should put a sign "We hate you, farangs. Spend all your money at once and leave forever. Never come back again". It would be cleaer and that's it.

no , its MORE than once in One year

It is not more. If you come here with a simple double entry visa you have already 4 months ,even without using the extension. In 2 years it totals 8 months. Enough to be RED STAMPED and warned your time in Thailand is end. All that because one holiday a year. Congratulations, Thailand !

The only country in the world who said to tourists "Don't ever come back here. We don't want you".

Good news for Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc.... They must be laughing like crazy.

the red stamp does not mean your time is ended, its a flag for them to watch and make sure youre not over 6 months in a year or 12 in two.

[max72]

So, they basically punish you because you chose to come back to Thailand for a second time.

Because if you can come just once in 2 years it means they HATE REAL TOURISTS and doing so this will cause many people to get an unproper visa, like ED visas for people who are not studying.

I have spent in Thailand 7 months in the past 2 years, if they think I am suspect of working illegaly, by staying 17 months outside and 7 inside that's madness.2012-2013 holidays, total 4 months in Thailand, than 8 months OUTSIDE, 2013-2014 holidays total 3 months in Thailand.

Am I an illegal ??? No, but i will get a red stamp, because i DARED to come back, and this is not acceptable in the country which hates tourists and don't want them to come back , ever, in your lifetime.

I will red stamped because i made the mistake to come back next winter rather than going to Cambodia or Malaysia.

They should put a sign "We hate you, farangs. Spend all your money at once and leave forever. Never come back again". It would be cleaer and that's it.

no , its MORE than once in One year

ONCE a year. One single tourist visa + 1 extension =90 days.

Same thing next year ... 180 days in 2 years....

You are already burnt ...red stamped because you dared to come back.

Punished and questioned "why did you come back to Thailand after your first holiday ?"

Here you get your red stamp, ! Take that ! Next time go to Cambodia.

[AYJAYDEE]

So, they basically punish you because you chose to come back to Thailand for a second time.

Because if you can come just once in 2 years it means they HATE REAL TOURISTS and doing so this will cause many people to get an unproper visa, like ED visas for people who are not studying.

I have spent in Thailand 7 months in the past 2 years, if they think I am suspect of working illegaly, by staying 17 months outside and 7 inside that's madness.2012-2013 holidays, total 4 months in Thailand, than 8 months OUTSIDE, 2013-2014 holidays total 3 months in Thailand.

Am I an illegal ??? No, but i will get a red stamp, because i DARED to come back, and this is not acceptable in the country which hates tourists and don't want them to come back , ever, in your lifetime.

I will red stamped because i made the mistake to come back next winter rather than going to Cambodia or Malaysia.

They should put a sign "We hate you, farangs. Spend all your money at once and leave forever. Never come back again". It would be cleaer and that's it.

no , its MORE than once in One year

ONCE a year. One single tourist visa + 1 extension =90 days.

Same thing next year ... 180 days in 2 years....

You are already burnt ...red stamped because you dared to come back.

Punished and questioned "why did you come back to Thailand after your first holiday ?"

Here you get your red stamp, ! Take that ! Next time go to Cambodia.

youre misinterpreting it

[Christie Paul]

just become LEGAL.. what a crock of shit being posted!

Crock of shit?

What does legal actually mean?

As opposed to say, "lawful".

Can one be "illegal" but break no law?

Legal is a terminology in which one applies (begs) for a dispensation. It has little to do with law. Common, admiralty, international, tort or otherwise.

[max72]

So, they basically punish you because you chose to come back to Thailand for a second time.

Because if you can come just once in 2 years it means they HATE REAL TOURISTS and doing so this will cause many people to get an unproper visa, like ED visas for people who are not studying.

I have spent in Thailand 7 months in the past 2 years, if they think I am suspect of working illegaly, by staying 17 months outside and 7 inside that's madness.2012-2013 holidays, total 4 months in Thailand, than 8 months OUTSIDE, 2013-2014 holidays total 3 months in Thailand.

Am I an illegal ??? No, but i will get a red stamp, because i DARED to come back, and this is not acceptable in the country which hates tourists and don't want them to come back , ever, in your lifetime.

I will red stamped because i made the mistake to come back next winter rather than going to Cambodia or Malaysia.

They should put a sign "We hate you, farangs. Spend all your money at once and leave forever. Never come back again". It would be cleaer and that's it.

no , its MORE than once in One year

It is not more. If you come here with a simple double entry visa you have already 4 months ,even without using the extension. In 2 years it totals 8 months. Enough to be RED STAMPED and warned your time in Thailand is end. All that because one holiday a year. Congratulations, Thailand !

The only country in the world who said to tourists "Don't ever come back here. We don't want you".

Good news for Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc.... They must be laughing like crazy.

the red stamp does not mean your time is ended, its a flag for them to watch and make sure youre not over 6 months in a year or 12 in two.

Flagged because i spent 7 months in 2 YEARS ?

Than I know what it happens. Flag is nothing, you say, but if you have many flags, even if you are under the 6 months under 12, it starts to look bad and why in the hell they should look at me like a suspect with a passport with red stamps and flags "oooohhh you have been warned many times !".

For what reason ? Because i spent 3 months a year in Thailand ?

Kick me and hundreds of thousands more off than, and I bet all the problems of Thailand will be solved.

I think many people HATE to be seen suspect (flagged, redstamped) only to be faithful tourists ...

In any other country , they are happy to see you back, when i go to Indonesia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Caribbeans (except Puerto Rico, where i had the only bad experience in the immigration 18 years ago) they asked me "when are you coming back ?" "please come back soon"...

and me , stupid as I am, i prefer to go to the only country which is not welcoming me... I have visited 108 countries, I am the hell of a tourist i think.

Now I am 40, I have stopped travelling like a wanderlust, I prefer to relax in one country, I chose Thailand.

My case is not unique, how many people are going to have problems ? LOTS of them.

The people causing trouble and working illegaly will keep doing that with their O /Retirment/ED visas....believe me...

[AYJAYDEE]

Flagged because i spent 7 months in 2 YEARS ?

Than I know what it happens. Flag is nothing, you say, but if you have many flags, even if you are under the 6 months under 12, it starts to look bad and why in the hell they should look at me like a suspect with a passport with red stamps and flags "oooohhh you have been warned many times !".

For what reason ? Because i spent 3 months a year in Thailand ?

Kick me and hundreds of thousands more off than, and I bet all the problems of Thailand will be solved.

I think many people HATE to be seen suspect (flagged, redstamped) only to be faithful tourists ...

In any other country , they are happy to see you back, when i go to Indonesia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Caribbeans (except Puerto Rico, where i had the only bad experience in the immigration 18 years ago) they asked me "when are you coming back ?" "please come back soon"...

and me , stupid as I am, i prefer to go to the only country which is not welcoming me... I have visited 108 countries, I am the hell of a tourist i think.

Now I am 40, I have stopped travelling like a wanderlust, I prefer to relax in one country, I chose Thailand.

My case is not unique, how many people are going to have problems ? LOTS of them.

The people causing trouble and working illegaly will keep doing that with their O /Retirment/ED visas....believe me...

you can do 6 months a year , period. if the way they keep track of you is a problem, then I guess thailand isnt the place for your holidays

[max72]

This witch hunt will cause more harm than good.

My opinion.

This witch hunt will make many Thais (directly and indirectly depending on tourism) angry.

My opinion.

[AYJAYDEE]

This witch hunt will cause more harm than good.

My opinion.

This witch hunt will make many Thais (directly and indirectly depending on tourism) angry.

My opinion.

that may well be but it aint something i'm gonna get all twisted out of shape over.

i'll play by their rules until their rules become too onerous and then ill quit playing.

[max72]

Flagged because i spent 7 months in 2 YEARS ?

Than I know what it happens. Flag is nothing, you say, but if you have many flags, even if you are under the 6 months under 12, it starts to look bad and why in the hell they should look at me like a suspect with a passport with red stamps and flags "oooohhh you have been warned many times !".

For what reason ? Because i spent 3 months a year in Thailand ?

Kick me and hundreds of thousands more off than, and I bet all the problems of Thailand will be solved.

I think many people HATE to be seen suspect (flagged, redstamped) only to be faithful tourists ...

In any other country , they are happy to see you back, when i go to Indonesia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Caribbeans (except Puerto Rico, where i had the only bad experience in the immigration 18 years ago) they asked me "when are you coming back ?" "please come back soon"...

and me , stupid as I am, i prefer to go to the only country which is not welcoming me... I have visited 108 countries, I am the hell of a tourist i think.

Now I am 40, I have stopped travelling like a wanderlust, I prefer to relax in one country, I chose Thailand.

My case is not unique, how many people are going to have problems ? LOTS of them.

The people causing trouble and working illegaly will keep doing that with their O /Retirment/ED visas....believe me...

you can do 6 months a year , period. if the way they keep track of you is a problem, then I guess thailand isnt the place for your holidays

Believe me i am not alone. Nobody likes to be flagged and red stamped only to be a faithful customers.

"oo hhoohhh , many many red stamps na ! . no kood ,no kood na ! Mai dee ! "

I guess all the problems in Thailand will disappear after hundreds of thousands of tourists will head towards next door country ...

[manolothai]

I guess all the problems in Thailand will disappear after hundreds of thousands of tourists will head towards next door country ...

I believe so....

[AYJAYDEE]

Flagged because i spent 7 months in 2 YEARS ?

Than I know what it happens. Flag is nothing, you say, but if you have many flags, even if you are under the 6 months under 12, it starts to look bad and why in the hell they should look at me like a suspect with a passport with red stamps and flags "oooohhh you have been warned many times !".

For what reason ? Because i spent 3 months a year in Thailand ?

Kick me and hundreds of thousands more off than, and I bet all the problems of Thailand will be solved.

I think many people HATE to be seen suspect (flagged, redstamped) only to be faithful tourists ...

In any other country , they are happy to see you back, when i go to Indonesia, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Caribbeans (except Puerto Rico, where i had the only bad experience in the immigration 18 years ago) they asked me "when are you coming back ?" "please come back soon"...

and me , stupid as I am, i prefer to go to the only country which is not welcoming me... I have visited 108 countries, I am the hell of a tourist i think.

Now I am 40, I have stopped travelling like a wanderlust, I prefer to relax in one country, I chose Thailand.

My case is not unique, how many people are going to have problems ? LOTS of them.

The people causing trouble and working illegaly will keep doing that with their O /Retirment/ED visas....believe me...

you can do 6 months a year , period. if the way they keep track of you is a problem, then I guess thailand isnt the place for your holidays

Believe me i am not alone. Nobody likes to be flagged and red stamped only to be a faithful customers.

"oo hhoohhh , many many red stamps na ! . no kood ,no kood na ! Mai dee ! "

I guess all the problems in Thailand will disappear after hundreds of thousands of tourists will head towards next door country ...

well then i guess youll have to find a new holiday place

[lostsoul49]

I really do not understand two facts...

1- If I do not work, my whole life is an holiday... and I like to stay as a turist 4 years....what do they want from me?

2- I am married with a thai lady, they just give me maximum 3 month Non Immigrant visa, what is that? It is a pitance? I'm not begging anyonoe, I am married with a thai! Why only 3 month? No sense... really no sense...

You have got it wrong.

They give you 90 days O visa so you have time to go through the procedures at your local immigration office (in Thailand) to be upgraded to your 12 month O visa.

You should be upgrading right now.

Going to an Embassy to claim a marriage visa is just the first stage in the process, you should be going through the next stages already... It all takes about 2 months, then you get your 12 months with 90 day reporting, and they renew that every year for you.

[freedomnow]

Right now is the no back-to-backs rule being enforced

or

from the 12th August onwards at Mae Sai or the entry point back in from Vientiane ?

The thing about Mae Sai in the north is you may be stuck in the restricted entry area of Myanmar/Burma unless that has changed (?) if you are refused re-entry to Thailand and that will take people by surprise who may need the extension up there to arrange a different visa with an extra 15/30 days.

Someone is going to get stuck in Tachilek on the other side of Mae Sai with their money/belongings in Thailand and no easy way onwards/out...just you watch !

I have no idea why they implemented the 30 day overland easing of visa-free overland just before a total blanket ban.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/679721-good-news-for-holders-of-uk-usa-japan-germany-france-canada-and-italy/

One main problem is the lack of forewarning about this.

Edited July 17, 2014 by freedomnow

[p_brownstone]

You make a very good point indeed.

What happens when the airlines are having to deal with potentially scores of entry problems per day?

This could really mess up their logistics if they have to get passengers back out of Thailand, and what if all their flights are fully booked in the high season? They would probably have to route them through one or more country.

As a carrier, all passengers are the airline's responsibility until they have been given entry to the destination country.

This will have absolutely NO effect on the Airline.

On Checking in a Passenger it is their responsibility to look for 1 of 2 things :

1) An outward Ticket within 30 days of the passengers planned arrival in Thailand.

2) A valid Visa for entry into Thailand.

If the passenger has neither of those and the Airline lets him board anyway - yes, the Airline is responsible for repatriating the passenger if he is refused entry to the Country.

HOWEVER if he has a Visa but is refused entry anyway it is the passengers own responsibility to arrange a flight out of Thailand, nothing to do with the Airline at all.

Patrick

[MrWorldwide]

Right now is the no back-to-backs rule being enforced

or

from the 12th August onwards at Mae Sai or the entry point back in from Vientiane ?

The thing about Mae Sai in the north is you may be stuck in the restricted entry area of Myanmar/Burma unless that has changed (?) if you are refused re-entry to Thailand and that will take people by surprise who may need the extension up there to arrange a different visa with an extra 15/30 days.

Someone is going to get stuck in Tachilek on the other side of Mae Sai with their money/belongings in Thailand and no easy way onwards/out...just you watch !

I have no idea why they implemented the 30 day overland easing of visa-free overland just before a total blanket ban.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/679721-good-news-for-holders-of-uk-usa-japan-germany-france-canada-and-italy/

One main problem is the lack of forewarning about this.

I usually only glance at the Visa forum each time I log into TV, but about a month ago it became apparent that changes were in the wind. When I started googling for more, this newspaper article set alarm bells ringing:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727092-thai-immigration-border-insecurity-mounts-as-tourist-visa-abuse-is-targeted/

I cancelled plans for one last visa run, bit the bullet and got my extension of stay right here in Pattaya. Technically, I guess Thai Immigration could say they started warning people back in late May - possibly even earlier - but I accept that for those who dont monitor the forums (I'm sure this is also huge on backpacker forums FWIW) it must be like a bolt from the blue when they rock up to the Immigration desk after climbing off a longhaul flight.

[freedomnow]

Thanks MrWorldwide, never saw that thread.

Factual info rather than members fighting behind anonymous screen names on here is always refreshing.

[Expattaff1308]

I really do not understand two facts...

1- If I do not work, my whole life is an holiday... and I like to stay as a turist 4 years....what do they want from me?

2- I am married with a thai lady, they just give me maximum 3 month Non Immigrant visa, what is that? It is a pitance? I'm not begging anyonoe, I am married with a thai! Why only 3 month? No sense... really no sense...

If you are married to a Thai why dont you apply for an extension at the local Imm office. Meet the criterea and have a 12mth extension based on marriage and no more border runs.

[watname1]

Sorry, but I'm new to this forum. If I missed it can anyone tell me how long does one have to stay outside before being allowed back in with a new 60 day tourist visa - How long not to be classed an in out??. I am one of those guys who has been living here for over 10 years. I am basically retired, but still only 47. I have land here, a company whereby the tax has been paid every year since 2005 and I am the chairman. I also have a car registered in my own name since 2005. But my biggest worry is that when I leave after the extension of my third entry from my tourist visa is up (triple entry aquired in the UK) which will be 27th Sept, I will not be allowed back to be with my girlfriend of 10 years who will be having our first child.. That's my biggest worry.

And please don't say "if you've land and a live company, why didn't you get a business visa?" I am not doing business in any form, therefore resent going down the business visa / paying tax road..

Any positive feedback appreciated..

[AYJAYDEE]

Sorry, but I'm new to this forum. If I missed it can anyone tell me how long does one have to stay outside before being allowed back in with a new 60 day tourist visa - How long not to be classed an in out??. I am one of those guys who has been living here for over 10 years. I am basically retired, but still only 47. I have land here, a company whereby the tax has been paid every year since 2005 and I am the chairman. I also have a car registered in my own name since 2005. But my biggest worry is that when I leave after the extension of my third entry from my tourist visa is up (triple entry aquired in the UK) which will be 27th Sept, I will not be allowed back to be with my girlfriend of 10 years who will be having our first child.. That's my biggest worry.

And please don't say "if you've land and a live company, why didn't you get a business visa?" I am not doing business in any form, therefore resent going down the business visa / paying tax road..

Any positive feedback appreciated..

the feeling around here today seems to be 180 days in a 12 month period with tourist visas is the best you can hope for. no one knows yet

[watname1]

Thanks Ayjaydee. I guess time will tell just about sums it all up..

[Christie Paul]

As for getting with the program. The Thais are on it. They don't want real estate prices to tank. They don't want retail to tank. They don't want tourism to collapse. They have a very open door policy although they can't be seen to be to free and easy.

Do you honestly believe the economy and tourism will collapse because of this?

I didn't say it would collapse because of this...

But tourism is already way down for a number of reasons and cultivating frustration, anger and confusion won't help the industry. When thousands of tourist based businesses, go from marginal to bankrupt, the land of smiles will become the land of anger.

Hello ugly.

The Thais are many things, but stupid is not one of them. They know for example that many of these low budget so called tourists, will one day collect some money, through inheritance for example and will spend it at the place they had the most enjoyment in their lives. They don't want to be like Malaysia wherein people go once or twice and seldom ever again.

What percentage of apartments in BKK and other place are purchased by foreigners? With the real estate boom languishing - the last thing needed is a few billion baht a month looking at other markets. Who wants to buy real estate in a country which in any way threatens access to ones investment?

[MrWorldwide]

As for getting with the program. The Thais are on it. They don't want real estate prices to tank. They don't want retail to tank. They don't want tourism to collapse. They have a very open door policy although they can't be seen to be to free and easy.

Do you honestly believe the economy and tourism will collapse because of this?

I didn't say it would collapse because of this...

But tourism is already way down for a number of reasons and cultivating frustration, anger and confusion won't help the industry. When thousands of tourist based businesses, go from marginal to bankrupt, the land of smiles will become the land of anger.

Hello ugly.

The Thais are many things, but stupid is not one of them. They know for example that many of these low budget so called tourists, will one day collect some money, through inheritance for example and will spend it at the place they had the most enjoyment in their lives. They don't want to be like Malaysia wherein people go once or twice and seldom ever again.

What percentage of apartments in BKK and other place are purchased by foreigners? With the real estate boom languishing - the last thing needed is a few billion baht a month looking at other markets. Who wants to buy real estate in a country which in any way threatens access to ones investment?

Under civilian control, I might agree with a lot of what you've said - the General has already shown that he's prepared to see Thailand endure some short-term pain to achieve his longer term goals, and that's something that spineless politicians (in Thailand and elsewhere) are rarely prepared to do. If what I've read is correct, he may even run for political office here when the time is right, and I think that's an incredible leap for someone who has made powerful enemies at the very highest levels of Thai business and government. Is he winning the grass roots support of the Thai people ? Beats me, but I would assume that's where he expects his vote to come from if he does indeed run in the 2015 elections.

We can question the logic of certain IOs bouncing people simply because they are in 'attack mode', but I dont believe the military are going to make this yet another 'Claytons' crackdown - I guess time will tell if any of us are right.

[fuzzzzy]

Sorry, but I'm new to this forum. If I missed it can anyone tell me how long does one have to stay outside before being allowed back in with a new 60 day tourist visa - How long not to be classed an in out??. I am one of those guys who has been living here for over 10 years. I am basically retired, but still only 47. I have land here, a company whereby the tax has been paid every year since 2005 and I am the chairman. I also have a car registered in my own name since 2005. But my biggest worry is that when I leave after the extension of my third entry from my tourist visa is up (triple entry aquired in the UK) which will be 27th Sept, I will not be allowed back to be with my girlfriend of 10 years who will be having our first child.. That's my biggest worry.

And please don't say "if you've land and a live company, why didn't you get a business visa?" I am not doing business in any form, therefore resent going down the business visa / paying tax road..

Any positive feedback appreciated..

the feeling around here today seems to be 180 days in a 12 month period with tourist visas is the best you can hope for. no one knows yet

may I ask, where do you get this information from ? Is there an official statement from Immigration or is this just unconfirmed rumor or hearsay ?

thanks

Edited July 17, 2014 by fuzzzzy

[AYJAYDEE]

Sorry, but I'm new to this forum. If I missed it can anyone tell me how long does one have to stay outside before being allowed back in with a new 60 day tourist visa - How long not to be classed an in out??. I am one of those guys who has been living here for over 10 years. I am basically retired, but still only 47. I have land here, a company whereby the tax has been paid every year since 2005 and I am the chairman. I also have a car registered in my own name since 2005. But my biggest worry is that when I leave after the extension of my third entry from my tourist visa is up (triple entry aquired in the UK) which will be 27th Sept, I will not be allowed back to be with my girlfriend of 10 years who will be having our first child.. That's my biggest worry.

And please don't say "if you've land and a live company, why didn't you get a business visa?" I am not doing business in any form, therefore resent going down the business visa / paying tax road..

Any positive feedback appreciated..

the feeling around here today seems to be 180 days in a 12 month period with tourist visas is the best you can hope for. no one knows yet

may I ask, where do you get this information from ? Is there an official statement from Immigration or is this just unconfirmed rumor or hearsay ?

thanks

you notice i said feeling and no one knows yet? obviously unconfirmed

[johnsjourney]

I went to Chiang Mai immigration this morning and was told there is, and will be, no change in the handling of tourist or multiple tourist visas. Mae Sai border trips are ok and not considered visa runs, and extension requests are welcome. A national newspaper and reports on this forum disagree, but I'll take the work of officials myself.

[Kalisa]

Hello ThaiVisa community!

Could you please help me to figure out how high is the chance for me to be denied from entering Thailand on a second entry with a double tourist visa.

First time I visited Thailand in March 2013, stayed for a month with a 30-days stamp and made 1 border run and stayed for an extra month.

This time I've arrived in May 2014, stayed for one month with a 30-days stamp after which I've left Thailand for 2 days and obtained a double entry tourist visa in Laos. Now first 60 days are nearly over and I was planning to activate the second entry via a short trip to a neighbouring country and get the next 60 days. I want this to be done before August, 12. But in a light of well-known issues, I'm not even sure if I can go without the whole of my luggage!

Will be grateful for any of your opinions and advices!

[LivinLOS]

Just being told by an oil and gas mate of mine, that a 3rd person, also an oil and gas guy, coming back from rotation (eg not an out in) has just been denied entry via air travel.

I am told he had to arrange his own flight out again.. But dont know how he managed to solve the airside and checking in again issues..

I dont know the denied guy personally, so until more evidence its merely a rumor, but I do know the mutual friend well and he is 100% this has happened in the last couple of days at Swampy.

[tompix321]

I went to Chiang Mai immigration this morning and was told there is, and will be, no change in the handling of tourist or multiple tourist visas. Mae Sai border trips are ok and not considered visa runs, and extension requests are welcome. A national newspaper and reports on this forum disagree, but I'll take the work of officials myself.

Thanks, but this sharply contradicts what another TV member wrote and he was also in contact with the immigration officers. The difference is that he contacted an immigration office at a border. Why would Chiang Mai Immigration get internal memos from Bangkok about issues that only matter for border checkpoints? And why should I trust one of these reports more than the other. I understand that you trust what you heard, but from my point of view there is just more confusion.