Out-in visa hoppers now being barred from entry to Thailand

[BlueEasySleep]

They've made some recent statements that suggest the crackdown was initiated to target Russians, South Koreans and Vietnamese who are working here illegally.

I would guess they will be a lot more strict with non EU/UK/US/Aus passports.

[ldnguy]

Have I understood this correctly?? Thai embassy abroad are issuing tourist-VISAS like there is no tomorrow and debit money for it as well. And than people are being denied entry to Thailand. I mean, can not the thai embassy see the exact same thing as the immigration-personal at the border to Thailand in respective passport they are stamping??????

Can somebody enlighten me plse...

Glegolo

Same in most countries. You may convince a Consulate that you are a genuine tourists, but Immigration might spot that you're not. Immigration in all countries have the right to prevent entry, even if you have a valid visa. People are refused entry to UK and USA every day, even when they arrive with a valid visa. I'm sure the Thai consulates will start getting stricter as enforcement gathers pace. Still early days.

[mataleo]

Ajarn.com just had an update from our Dept that a directive was issued today. It states no tourists can have back to back tourist visas now under any circumstances at any entry point, land or air. Info has always been very reliable from our source. Seems like this is a response to the much publicised issues on ThaiVisa.com from the weekend.

[bennie1975]

I have two passports. Been going in and out Thailand on visa exemption for almost a year now. Mostly is because I come to stay with my mom and have to go out when the 30-days are up. I have a Thai passport, obtained it while I was staying here. Never used the Thai passport because I belive the immigration won't let me in because I don't have any exiting thailand stamp. But now because of the clamp down, I am thinking to use my Thai passport. Anybody can help me with this please?

[nottocus]

Ajarn.com just had an update from our Dept that a directive was issued today. It states no tourists can have back to back tourist visas now under any circumstances at any entry point, land or air. Info has always been very reliable from our source. Seems like this is a response to the much publicised issues on ThaiVisa.com from the weekend.

That's great news. Thanks for posting.

[mataleo]

Is it ED visa still ok?

Non-Immigrant Visas are apparently still okay, but I believe they may change something in terms of the ED-Visas (or perhaps other Non-Imm visas) that are being used for extended stays - especially if they decide there is a problem with people working without permits. The system should have been organized a long time ago, but as many know nothing is stable in Thailand. Just keep yourself within the law and you'll likely have few problems.

Tourists visas were within law

[seancbk]

On May 13, the then-national head of Immigration, Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon explained to The Phuket News, “Lots of nationalities come to Thailand on tourist visas but they come to work. I really want them to do the right thing, not to try to dodge around the law and evade taxes.”

Then why don't Thailand come up with a visa for people who want to work online for customers outside of Thailand.

Those people bring in foreign currency and spend it in the Kingdom.

Let them pay for a special sole person work permit, valid for one year and make them pay tax (just set a minimum salary against which tax is paid)

[Pattaya46]

Ajarn.com just had an update from our Dept that a directive was issued today. It states no tourists can have back to back tourist visas now under any circumstances at any entry point, land or air. Info has always been very reliable from our source. Seems like this is a response to the much publicised issues on ThaiVisa.com from the weekend.

Looks like you missed the beginning of the article...

"From mid-August, if new immigration rule changes come about, "...

[Pattaya46]

Then why don't Thailand come up with a visa for people who want to work online for customers outside of Thailand.

Does your country have a special visa for foreigners who want to work online ?

Mine doesn't...

[seancbk]

Then why don't Thailand come up with a visa for people who want to work online for customers outside of Thailand.

Does your country have a special visa for foreigners who want to work online ?

Mine doesn't...

My country allows nationals from 148 different countries to come without a visa and stay between 180 days and 14 days depending where they are from.

Most people get 90 days automatically. No problem with doing back to back visits.

They can do so as tourists or they can undertake a limited range of business-related activities, namely "concluding contracts or submitting tenders, examining or supervising the installation/packaging of goods or equipment, participating in exhibitions or trade fairs (except selling goods or supplying services direct to the general public, or constructing exhibition booths), settling compensation or other civil proceedings, participating in product orientation, and attending short-term seminars or other business meetings".

Working online would not be an issue. As long as you don't take up employment with a company in the country without a work visa. Working online for your business outside the country would be fine, because they understand that someone on holiday might need to deal with issues in their business whilst away.

The issue is all about coming in and taking a job which a local resident could do. I've hired expats back home and had to prove to the labour department that we could not find a suitable candidate locally. They don't care about people who have their own overseas businesses and want to work on them from home.

The reason more people don't do it? Well it is very expensive in my home country and most of the types of people who work online prefer to do it in countries where the cost of living is much lower (ie Thailand).

After living in my home country for 7 years you get FULL citizenship, no language requirement or money to pay.

[AYJAYDEE]

Then why don't Thailand come up with a visa for people who want to work online for customers outside of Thailand.

Does your country have a special visa for foreigners who want to work online ?

Mine doesn't...

My country allows nationals from 148 different countries to come without a visa and stay between 180 days and 14 days depending where they are from.

Most people get 90 days automatically. No problem with doing back to back visits.

They can do so as tourists or they can undertake a limited range of business-related activities, namely "concluding contracts or submitting tenders, examining or supervising the installation/packaging of goods or equipment, participating in exhibitions or trade fairs (except selling goods or supplying services direct to the general public, or constructing exhibition booths), settling compensation or other civil proceedings, participating in product orientation, and attending short-term seminars or other business meetings".

Working online would not be an issue. As long as you don't take up employment with a company in the country without a work visa. Working online for your business outside the country would be fine, because they understand that someone on holiday might need to deal with issues in their business whilst away.

The issue is all about coming in and taking a job which a local resident could do. I've hired expats back home and had to prove to the labour department that we could not find a suitable candidate locally. They don't care about people who have their own overseas businesses and want to work on them from home.

The reason more people don't do it? Well it is very expensive in my home country and most of the types of people who work online prefer to do it in countries where the cost of living is much lower (ie Thailand).

After living in my home country for 7 years you get FULL citizenship, no language requirement or money to pay.

how would one go about living in your country for 7 years without an immigrant visa??

[seancbk]

Then why don't Thailand come up with a visa for people who want to work online for customers outside of Thailand.

Does your country have a special visa for foreigners who want to work online ?

Mine doesn't...

My country allows nationals from 148 different countries to come without a visa and stay between 180 days and 14 days depending where they are from.

Most people get 90 days automatically. No problem with doing back to back visits.

They can do so as tourists or they can undertake a limited range of business-related activities, namely "concluding contracts or submitting tenders, examining or supervising the installation/packaging of goods or equipment, participating in exhibitions or trade fairs (except selling goods or supplying services direct to the general public, or constructing exhibition booths), settling compensation or other civil proceedings, participating in product orientation, and attending short-term seminars or other business meetings".

Working online would not be an issue. As long as you don't take up employment with a company in the country without a work visa. Working online for your business outside the country would be fine, because they understand that someone on holiday might need to deal with issues in their business whilst away.

The issue is all about coming in and taking a job which a local resident could do. I've hired expats back home and had to prove to the labour department that we could not find a suitable candidate locally. They don't care about people who have their own overseas businesses and want to work on them from home.

The reason more people don't do it? Well it is very expensive in my home country and most of the types of people who work online prefer to do it in countries where the cost of living is much lower (ie Thailand).

After living in my home country for 7 years you get FULL citizenship, no language requirement or money to pay.

how would one go about living in your country for 7 years without an immigrant visa??

I didn't say you would or could. I merely said that after 7 years living there you get permanent citizenship.

What I said was being there as a long term tourist, assuming you could afford to be one, is allowed and as long as your "work" is not for a local company ie you are not taking a job from a local, they don't care if you sit at home and work for your business overseas.

If you wanted to remain there really long term then you would simply set up a company and become legal. No need to hire any locals though, just be a sole proprietor and work for yourself.

Then 7 years later get citizenship.

Did I mention the fastest internet in the world, English as one of the official languages, a super modern but also very green city.....

Also very low tax rates, almost no crime and many other advantages.

Downsides? Rent is very high..... 30 sq/m unfurnished apartment probably between 58,000 to 75,000 THB per month

Cost of living very high. Very crowded (although I love busy cities so that doesn't worry me).

Anyway, this thread is about the Out/In Visa rules so I'll stop going on about Hong Kong now :-)

Edited July 15, 2014 by seancbk

[AYJAYDEE]

how would one go about living in your country for 7 years without an immigrant visa??

I didn't say you would or could. I merely said that after 7 years living there you get permanent citizenship.

What I said was being there as a long term tourist, assuming you could afford to be one, is allowed and as long as your "work" is not for a local company ie you are not taking a job from a local, they don't care if you sit at home and work for your business overseas.

If you wanted to remain there really long term then you would simply set up a company and become legal. No need to hire any locals though, just be a sole proprietor and work for yourself.

Then 7 years later get citizenship.

Did I mention the fastest internet in the world, English as one of the official languages, a super modern but also very green city.....

so you say anyone can come in on a tourist visa and set up a company and stay? or does he need an investor visa that costs anywhere between 1 and 3 million dollars investment?

[seancbk]

how would one go about living in your country for 7 years without an immigrant visa??

I didn't say you would or could. I merely said that after 7 years living there you get permanent citizenship.

What I said was being there as a long term tourist, assuming you could afford to be one, is allowed and as long as your "work" is not for a local company ie you are not taking a job from a local, they don't care if you sit at home and work for your business overseas.

If you wanted to remain there really long term then you would simply set up a company and become legal. No need to hire any locals though, just be a sole proprietor and work for yourself.

Then 7 years later get citizenship.

Did I mention the fastest internet in the world, English as one of the official languages, a super modern but also very green city.....

so you say anyone can come in on a tourist visa and set up a company and stay? or does he need an investor visa that costs anywhere between 1 and 3 million dollars investment?

Setting up a company in Hong Kong is very easy. I've never heard of anyone needing to invest money to qualify.

Again so long as you don't try taking up "employment" in HK there is no law that says you cannot be "working" on your own business that is located outside of HK.

So doing online work falls outside of the labour laws.

If you wanted to live permanently in HK rather than as a tourist where you need to leave periodically then I can see no issue with forming a company and becoming legal.

Bear in mind that I lived there from age 6 to 41 so never had to worry about any of that.... I was already a citizen by the time I was 13 years old.

I am however pretty sure that if you rich enough to live in HK as a tourist you could without any issue. Just don't work for a local company without the correct visa.

That is the big difference between there and there.... they understand that you sitting at home working online is not really the same as taking a job from a local. Take a job from a local and hell to pay but do work online from home and no one knows and no-one cares.

[seancbk]

how would one go about living in your country for 7 years without an immigrant visa??

I didn't say you would or could. I merely said that after 7 years living there you get permanent citizenship.

What I said was being there as a long term tourist, assuming you could afford to be one, is allowed and as long as your "work" is not for a local company ie you are not taking a job from a local, they don't care if you sit at home and work for your business overseas.

If you wanted to remain there really long term then you would simply set up a company and become legal. No need to hire any locals though, just be a sole proprietor and work for yourself.

Then 7 years later get citizenship.

Did I mention the fastest internet in the world, English as one of the official languages, a super modern but also very green city.....

so you say anyone can come in on a tourist visa and set up a company and stay? or does he need an investor visa that costs anywhere between 1 and 3 million dollars investment?

This is quite a good article, its a year or so old and the guy makes it sound harder than it is, but then I think that is because he had a family (wife and kids) and he wanted his business to have offices, staff etc etc....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joshsteimle/2013/07/12/how-i-opened-a-branch-office-of-my-business-in-hong-kong/

If you are a single person doing one man freelance internet type work it would be far easier.

The tricky part might be coming up with the approx 150,000 baht a month you would need to have even a basic subsistence lifestyle there and the amount of time it might take to get yourself an apartment, internet, utilities etc before you could start living.

Edited - Forgot to mention the following extra cost - If you are a self-employed person (SEP) aged 18 to below 65, you must enrol yourself in an MPF scheme. You are required to make mandatory contributions if you earn not less than the minimum income level, i.e. currently $5,000 a month or $60,000 a year.

Edited July 15, 2014 by seancbk

[AYJAYDEE]

how would one go about living in your country for 7 years without an immigrant visa??

I didn't say you would or could. I merely said that after 7 years living there you get permanent citizenship.

What I said was being there as a long term tourist, assuming you could afford to be one, is allowed and as long as your "work" is not for a local company ie you are not taking a job from a local, they don't care if you sit at home and work for your business overseas.

If you wanted to remain there really long term then you would simply set up a company and become legal. No need to hire any locals though, just be a sole proprietor and work for yourself.

Then 7 years later get citizenship.

Did I mention the fastest internet in the world, English as one of the official languages, a super modern but also very green city.....

so you say anyone can come in on a tourist visa and set up a company and stay? or does he need an investor visa that costs anywhere between 1 and 3 million dollars investment?

Setting up a company in Hong Kong is very easy. I've never heard of anyone needing to invest money to qualify.

Again so long as you don't try taking up "employment" in HK there is no law that says you cannot be "working" on your own business that is located outside of HK.

So doing online work falls outside of the labour laws.

If you wanted to live permanently in HK rather than as a tourist where you need to leave periodically then I can see no issue with forming a company and becoming legal.

Bear in mind that I lived there from age 6 to 41 so never had to worry about any of that.... I was already a citizen by the time I was 13 years old.

I am however pretty sure that if you rich enough to live in HK as a tourist you could without any issue. Just don't work for a local company without the correct visa.

That is the big difference between there and there.... they understand that you sitting at home working online is not really the same as taking a job from a local. Take a job from a local and hell to pay but do work online from home and no one knows and no-one cares.

so you are saying that I could come to hong kong on a tourist visa, form a company be granted permanent residency and stay for 7 years? I find that quite amazing and have never heard of any other country allowing that!

[seancbk]

so you are saying that I could come to hong kong on a tourist visa, form a company be granted permanent residency and stay for 7 years? I find that quite amazing and have never heard of any other country allowing that!

Your comprehension is a bit lacking.... you get permanent residence AFTER living there for 7 years.

You could be there as a tourist and work as long as you WERE NOT working for a HK company.

Working online on your business based in cyberspace whilst you are on holiday (ie being a tourist) is not viewed the same in HK as it is here. All they care about is that you are not taking a job from a local HK person.

Once you've been in HK as a tourist for a while you would realise that living there full time has benefits and so you would want to either get a job or if you are the work for yourself entrepreneurial type then start your own company - here is another resource that explains how easy that is - http://www.internations.org/hong-kong-expats/guide/15942-jobs-business/setting-up-a-business-in-hong-kong-15933

Once you have a company there you can live and after 7 years become a citizen automatically and no longer need to bother with visas and a work permit.

But as I said you would need to be making very good money online to manage this. Its not impossible but it would be hard and anyone working online would probably choose to do it in Thailand where cost of living is 1/6th the cost of HK.

Now do you understand?

[AYJAYDEE]

so you are saying that I could come to hong kong on a tourist visa, form a company be granted permanent residency and stay for 7 years? I find that quite amazing and have never heard of any other country allowing that!

Your comprehension is a bit lacking.... you get permanent residence AFTER living there for 7 years.

You could be there as a tourist and work as long as you WERE NOT working for a HK company.

Working online on your business based in cyberspace whilst you are on holiday (ie being a tourist) is not viewed the same in HK as it is here. All they care about is that you are not taking a job from a local HK person.

Once you've been in HK as a tourist for a while you would realise that living there full time has benefits and so you would want to either get a job or if you are the work for yourself entrepreneurial type then start your own company - here is another resource that explains how easy that is - http://www.internations.org/hong-kong-expats/guide/15942-jobs-business/setting-up-a-business-in-hong-kong-15933

Once you have a company there you can live and after 7 years become a citizen automatically and no longer need to bother with visas and a work permit.

But as I said you would need to be making very good money online to manage this. Its not impossible but it would be hard and anyone working online would probably choose to do it in Thailand where cost of living is 1/6th the cost of HK.

Now do you understand?

no i dont. are you saying that i can come in on a tourist visa, start a company and stay in the country without having to leave? and after ive been in the country for the required 7 years (because i own a company) i can then apply for permanent residence?

[englishoak]

i am so excited about the new numbers of arriving tourists in the second half of this year...i predict a huge drop...

Tourist numbers have already fallen off a cliff with the coup, they are only making things even worse for themselves with this "crackdown". I'm highly sceptical that there is a huge problem with farang working here illegally on tourist visas in the first place, to be honest.

well look at it this way, every tourist visa granted adds to the figures from TAT, so a guy doing back to back for a year thats 12 ... however many you wish doing back to back and then multiply that by 12...

Say its only 100k doing it, thats 1.2m less tourists ... put into that however many you think may have done say just 2 back to back say 1m that would be another 2m lost tourists...

yea numbers will fall off a cliff and to be honest most here have always disbelieved the tourist figures as massaged anyway... a conservative estimate would be maybe 2 - 3 million less visa entries now.

That will be hurting the image no doubt and the place deserves the dent imo.

Edited July 15, 2014 by englishoak

[JLCrab]

On May 13, the then-national head of Immigration, Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon explained to The Phuket News, “Lots of nationalities come to Thailand on tourist visas but they come to work. I really want them to do the right thing, not to try to dodge around the law and evade taxes.”

Then why don't Thailand come up with a visa for people who want to work online for customers outside of Thailand.

Those people bring in foreign currency and spend it in the Kingdom.

Let them pay for a special sole person work permit, valid for one year and make them pay tax (just set a minimum salary against which tax is paid)

Because accommodating those one-man shops IMHO it provides a dis-incentive to (BOI) companies who would invest in online services in Thailand for customers both in & ex-Thailand and who would hire Thai university graduates.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I wasn't a fan of military rule at first but I have to say I'm warming up to the Junta. They really are making an effort to clean up Thailand.

[nottocus]

Congratulations to the junta for trying to take out the trash.

Your referral to ordinary people who until now has been using legit ways to stay in Thailand as "trash" speaks volumes about your character

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks mate.

[hermesalpha]

I received an emergency treatment in November last year and had to have a tooth extracted. However, the dentist made a dental treatment plan for me which would require a minor surgery etc. and would take around 3 months to complete and cost between 50,000 and 80,000 THB in total. I have now 3 tourist visas in my passport and 2 VOA. The last exit stamp from Thailand is 8th June 2014 (around 6 weeks ago). I need to go back to Thailand and continue this dental treatment as the dentist knows my case and have already taken X-rays etc. But if I get a new 2-months tourist visa, will I still be able to claim I need to continue my dental treatment and have it completed if questioned (which I probably will) by the Immigration? Will the Immigration approve, and believe me (I haven't kept any receipts from the dental treatment, but I could give them a phone number to my dentist in Phuket) and let me in to Thailand on a tourist visa even though it's for dental treatment I'm there for.

[AYJAYDEE]

I received an emergency treatment in November last year and had to have a tooth extracted. However, the dentist made a dental treatment plan for me which would require a minor surgery etc. and would take around 3 months to complete and cost between 50,000 and 80,000 THB in total. I have now 3 tourist visas in my passport and 2 VOA. The last exit stamp from Thailand is 8th June 2014 (around 6 weeks ago). I need to go back to Thailand and continue this dental treatment as the dentist knows my case and have already taken X-rays etc. But if I get a new 2-months tourist visa, will I still be able to claim I need to continue my dental treatment and have it completed if questioned (which I probably will) by the Immigration? Will the Immigration approve, and believe me (I haven't kept any receipts from the dental treatment, but I could give them a phone number to my dentist in Phuket) and let me in to Thailand on a tourist visa even though it's for dental treatment I'm there for.

why cant your dentist email you the receipt copies?

[tlock]

On May 13, the then-national head of Immigration, Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon explained to The Phuket News, “Lots of nationalities come to Thailand on tourist visas but they come to work. I really want them to do the right thing, not to try to dodge around the law and evade taxes.”

Then why don't Thailand come up with a visa for people who want to work online for customers outside of Thailand.

Those people bring in foreign currency and spend it in the Kingdom.

Let them pay for a special sole person work permit, valid for one year and make them pay tax (just set a minimum salary against which tax is paid)

Because accommodating those one-man shops IMHO it provides a dis-incentive to (BOI) companies who would invest in online services in Thailand for customers both in & ex-Thailand and who would hire Thai university graduates.

Edited July 16, 2014 by tlock

[jaideecm]

Now we will here from all the cry babies who been living in Thailand with these tourist visa. Either get a proper visa or go home.

Any advice for someone under 50 that isn't married with no Thai children, that working outside of Thailand on a 6 week on 6 week off rotation, that wishes to spend his time off in Thailand??? Any suggestions???

I have been living in Thailand for 26 years. Before I had a retirement visa I always had a non-immigrant "o" visa with mulitpule entry. You will need to rent a place with a 1 year lease. If you can get a letter of guarantee from someone who has a company in Thailand or a Thai national such as a tracher or someone who works for the govenrment saying they will guarantee you during your stay in Thailand will help a lot when applying for the visa. Take these documents along with your bank statement to a Thai embassy or consulate and you will have no problem. Talk with an immigrations officer and they will help you, they helped me a lot in the past.

[p_brownstone]

I have two passports. Been going in and out Thailand on visa exemption for almost a year now. Mostly is because I come to stay with my mom and have to go out when the 30-days are up. I have a Thai passport, obtained it while I was staying here. Never used the Thai passport because I belive the immigration won't let me in because I don't have any exiting thailand stamp. But now because of the clamp down, I am thinking to use my Thai passport. Anybody can help me with this please?

This is never a problem; simply explain that the Thai Passport was issued overseas - hence no Exit stamp.

In any case if you hold a Thai Passport Thailand cannot deny you entry (even with an expired Thai Passport you cannot be denied entry).

Also, before you ask, Thailand has no problems with people holding another Nationality / Passport in addition to Thai - although a junior Immigration Officer may not know that and give you some problems, if that happens ask, politely, to speak to a more Senior Officer and he will certainly know the situation..

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

Is it ED visa still ok?

Yes, and it will probably be the most common visa the next few months.

I guess many people who want to stay legally in Thailand, will use that option now. Overstayers, who want to become legal, visa runners and people with too many back to back TVs.

I don't think having an ED Visa will make you bullet-proof on entry if you already have a large number of Visa Exempt and / or Tourist Visas back-to-back in your Passport.

As I believe someone already Posted the Immigration Officer is going to look at that History and ask "how come you were here all that time and only now, when the rules have changed, do you decide to go to School?"

There's a good chance you will be denied entry.

Patrick

Edited July 16, 2014 by p_brownstone

[bennie1975]

I have two passports. Been going in and out Thailand on visa exemption for almost a year now. Mostly is because I come to stay with my mom and have to go out when the 30-days are up. I have a Thai passport, obtained it while I was staying here. Never used the Thai passport because I belive the immigration won't let me in because I don't have any exiting thailand stamp. But now because of the clamp down, I am thinking to use my Thai passport. Anybody can help me with this please?

This is never a problem; simply explain that the Thai Passport was issued overseas - hence no Exit stamp.

In any case if you hold a Thai Passport Thailand cannot deny you entry (even with an expired Thai Passport you cannot be denied entry).

Also, before you ask, Thailand has no problems with people holding another Nationality / Passport in addition to Thai - although a junior Immigration Officer may not know that and give you some problems, if that happens ask, politely, to speak to a more Senior Officer and he will certainly know the situation..

Patrick

Hi.. Thanks for the reply. You mentioned to tell them the passport was issued overseas. But i had my passport issued here in Thailand, at the Charng Wattana office. Will that be an extra problem? Thanks.

Edited July 16, 2014 by bennie1975

[Mr Yim]

I wasn't a fan of military rule at first but I have to say I'm warming up to the Junta. They really are making an effort to clean up Thailand.

One or two Thaivisa members warned that the PDRC were anti farang. Now wait for the Junta to insist that those living here on retirement visas, marriage visas etc need to have a University degree, then we will see how many are applauding them.