Scores of foreigners refused entry to Thailand at Malaysian border

[AYJAYDEE]

Clearly there are very many different definitions of a tourist, I'd say it's someone who is here for leisure with no intention of working or running any kind of business. Not every tourist stays in hotels and not every tourist has an ongoing ticket. Just because someone has been a tourist for 2 years already does no nesseserally mean that person is not a real tourist.

The crackdown is to prevent people using a Tourist Visa or Exempt Stamp to come to Thailand and then work.. that can happen on someones first ever visit.

2 years is a resident not a tourist. does your home country allow 2 yr tourists?

[chrisinth]

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What is amazing (not unsurprising) is nobody has said you must stay out of the country XXXX days / weeks / months before we will consider to allow you back in again.

Meanwhile over at TAT, the spin machine has thrown a belt and they are looking for a new part.

It will be interesting when they get the belt fitted and tightened.........................

[MrWorldwide]

Because sex tourists are liked a lot more than illegal English teachers.

You seem to be working on the assumption that these are mutually exclusive groups.

[mjj]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

Do you not read anything in the OP pieces?

Legitimate tourists who wish to enter Thailand are advised to show officials hotel bookings or some kind of travel itinerary.

In addition to this, I would add that (in their eyes), you are probably NOT a tourist when:

1. You have no luggage

2. You have numerous out/in stamps back to back or in close relationship to each other

3. You leave the border at 10am and reenter at 1pm on the same day

4. You are on a bus/van that caters specifically for out/in border runs

Get the picture?

When I first came to Thailand I planned on staying here less than a month, but things changed and I stayed for 13 months. I never worked and I did 12 border runs back to back to stay. First Samui to Malaysia and then Bangkok to Cambodia. I never felt like anything other than a tourist on an extended holiday and had money as I was planning to go to other countries to travel when I got bored of Thailand.

Now my situation then may or may not be common or rare, but without it I wouldn't be celebrating 10 years of marriage and have a beautiful son.

I'm all for doing things the right way, but I feel that Thailand doesn't help itself. Most want to be legal, but there is no clarity and offers that fit people.

Maybe Thailand doesn't want the traveller type like I was anymore, but in this day and age I would think a lot of graduates see Thailand as a holiday / extended break once they have finished studying. Thailand can be a wonderful country than I and many others visited and decided to stay in. It will be a shame if that option is not open to others in the future.

[mjj]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

Do you not read anything in the OP pieces?

Legitimate tourists who wish to enter Thailand are advised to show officials hotel bookings or some kind of travel itinerary.

In addition to this, I would add that (in their eyes), you are probably NOT a tourist when:

1. You have no luggage

2. You have numerous out/in stamps back to back or in close relationship to each other

3. You leave the border at 10am and reenter at 1pm on the same day

4. You are on a bus/van that caters specifically for out/in border runs

Get the picture?

When I first came to Thailand I planned on staying here less than a month, but things changed and I stayed for 13 months. I never worked and I did 12 border runs back to back to stay. First Samui to Malaysia and then Bangkok to Cambodia. I never felt like anything other than a tourist on an extended holiday and had money as I was planning to go to other countries to travel when I got bored of Thailand.

Now my situation then may or may not be common or rare, but without it I wouldn't be celebrating 10 years of marriage and have a beautiful son.

I'm all for doing things the right way, but I feel that Thailand doesn't help itself. Most want to be legal, but there is no clarity and offers that fit people.

Maybe Thailand doesn't want the traveller type like I was anymore, but in this day and age I would think a lot of graduates see Thailand as a holiday / extended break once they have finished studying. Thailand can be a wonderful country than I and many others visited and decided to stay in. It will be a shame if that option is not open to others in the future.

[HUAHIN62]

You get visa runners and visa runners, at present everyone is handled the same. You get the runners at the lower end of the scale that stay in Thailand to survive financialy, you get runners that work here illegaly and compete with Thai's for jobs, you get runners that work here illegaly but do jobs that don't compete with Thai's for jobs (running websites in their home countries etc.), you get runners that is or was involved in crimminal activities and you get runners that stay in Thailand during the winter season (3 to 6 months of the year) to escape the cold in their home countries and because they like Thailand. The new rules will chase away the good and the bad, which I think is a result of the lack of understanding by authorities of the complexity of their own country's tourism. Under the present laws what they are doing is correct, but the question is if the laws are correct. Why not start a 6 month visa that cost B 10 000 per person (just an example) and visa applicants must supply proof of funds and medical cover. Why not have a foreign work visa that allows for people in the IT business to stay in Thailand but do work back in their home countries? These 2 groups are the bigger spenders and should be accommodated. I played around with some numbers, let say there are 200 000 such "tourists" in the country at any given time and they spend on average B 100 000 per month, thats B 240 bn per year that could be lost for the economy. With the present downturn in tourism and the economy I think that the timing of this clampdown is ill advised. Would it not have been better to get rid of the unwanted elements while retaining the wanted tourists?

[AYJAYDEE]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

Do you not read anything in the OP pieces?

Legitimate tourists who wish to enter Thailand are advised to show officials hotel bookings or some kind of travel itinerary.

In addition to this, I would add that (in their eyes), you are probably NOT a tourist when:

1. You have no luggage

2. You have numerous out/in stamps back to back or in close relationship to each other

3. You leave the border at 10am and reenter at 1pm on the same day

4. You are on a bus/van that caters specifically for out/in border runs

Get the picture?

When I first came to Thailand I planned on staying here less than a month, but things changed and I stayed for 13 months. I never worked and I did 12 border runs back to back to stay. First Samui to Malaysia and then Bangkok to Cambodia. I never felt like anything other than a tourist on an extended holiday and had money as I was planning to go to other countries to travel when I got bored of Thailand.

Now my situation then may or may not be common or rare, but without it I wouldn't be celebrating 10 years of marriage and have a beautiful son.

I'm all for doing things the right way, but I feel that Thailand doesn't help itself. Most want to be legal, but there is no clarity and offers that fit people.

Maybe Thailand doesn't want the traveller type like I was anymore, but in this day and age I would think a lot of graduates see Thailand as a holiday / extended break once they have finished studying. Thailand can be a wonderful country than I and many others visited and decided to stay in. It will be a shame if that option is not open to others in the future.

what country does it the right way and allows a tourist to stay for 13 months?

[AYJAYDEE]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

Do you not read anything in the OP pieces?

Legitimate tourists who wish to enter Thailand are advised to show officials hotel bookings or some kind of travel itinerary.

In addition to this, I would add that (in their eyes), you are probably NOT a tourist when:

1. You have no luggage

2. You have numerous out/in stamps back to back or in close relationship to each other

3. You leave the border at 10am and reenter at 1pm on the same day

4. You are on a bus/van that caters specifically for out/in border runs

Get the picture?

When I first came to Thailand I planned on staying here less than a month, but things changed and I stayed for 13 months. I never worked and I did 12 border runs back to back to stay. First Samui to Malaysia and then Bangkok to Cambodia. I never felt like anything other than a tourist on an extended holiday and had money as I was planning to go to other countries to travel when I got bored of Thailand.

Now my situation then may or may not be common or rare, but without it I wouldn't be celebrating 10 years of marriage and have a beautiful son.

I'm all for doing things the right way, but I feel that Thailand doesn't help itself. Most want to be legal, but there is no clarity and offers that fit people.

Maybe Thailand doesn't want the traveller type like I was anymore, but in this day and age I would think a lot of graduates see Thailand as a holiday / extended break once they have finished studying. Thailand can be a wonderful country than I and many others visited and decided to stay in. It will be a shame if that option is not open to others in the future.

what country does it the right way and allows a tourist to stay for 13 months?

[Thai at Heart]

Whatever!

Of course there is a very large contingent of visarunners.

But many of them are NOT working.

This is another sign that Thailand is getiing on the wrong track.

If it gets known that Thai visa's are not worth the money you pay for it, this will have a negative effect on "real" tourists.

Besides this bad effect, what about the loss of capital, loss of jobs?

I know a guy, 42, swimming in his money....well ok, wading, a visa runner.

Spends around 2-3 million baht a year.

He will probably not get a visa any more.

Byebye!

He should look at investing 10 mill and going for an investment visa if he wants to stay, under 50 and single no need to be bound to Thailand I doubt he would be missed anyway it's only 2-3 mill a year.

To add he can afford the elite card plenty options if he is just not so tight.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I can see why you have the name you do !!!!

Invest 10mn just for a visa? Strewth

[mjj]

Dp

Edited July 16, 2014 by mjj

[Thai at Heart]

Whatever!

Of course there is a very large contingent of visarunners.

But many of them are NOT working.

This is another sign that Thailand is getiing on the wrong track.

If it gets known that Thai visa's are not worth the money you pay for it, this will have a negative effect on "real" tourists.

Besides this bad effect, what about the loss of capital, loss of jobs?

I know a guy, 42, swimming in his money....well ok, wading, a visa runner.

Spends around 2-3 million baht a year.

He will probably not get a visa any more.

Byebye!

He should look at investing 10 mill and going for an investment visa if he wants to stay, under 50 and single no need to be bound to Thailand I doubt he would be missed anyway it's only 2-3 mill a year.

To add he can afford the elite card plenty options if he is just not so tight.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I can see why you have the name you do !!!!

Invest 10mn just for a visa? Strewth

[Baerboxer]

Has anyone here ever booked a hotel room for 6 months solid?

Nah, didn't think so.

Let's have less of the BS, shall we?

Yes, I have for one,

But that was while working in one country legitimately on and appropriate business visa.

[KarenBravo]

I wonder how All the self righteous people on here and other threads will react when they start with your tyoe of visa. You're literary cheering the misery of these people of whom most have the means to stay here and don't work or do any crime.

Of course Thailand has the right to enforce their immigration laws but dont talk about these people like you're better then them. Immigration will move to the othet type of visas because also those were not always properly enforced/checked. E.g. people borrowing the 400k or 800k

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

Yet another person that doesn't quite get what all this is about.

They are not changing the conditions of any of the visas. They are just enforcing the existing rules.

People that use back-to-back tourist visas, or, visa exempt stamps which are meant for tourists, are obviously long-stayers and are therefore not Thailand's idea of a tourist.

You want to stay a long time? Get the correct visa and abide by its rules.

Traffic laws were in existence, but, they weren't enforced. Now they say that they will be. It's the same scenario.

Edited July 16, 2014 by KarenBravo

[mjj]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

Do you not read anything in the OP pieces?

Legitimate tourists who wish to enter Thailand are advised to show officials hotel bookings or some kind of travel itinerary.

In addition to this, I would add that (in their eyes), you are probably NOT a tourist when:

1. You have no luggage

2. You have numerous out/in stamps back to back or in close relationship to each other

3. You leave the border at 10am and reenter at 1pm on the same day

4. You are on a bus/van that caters specifically for out/in border runs

Get the picture?

When I first came to Thailand I planned on staying here less than a month, but things changed and I stayed for 13 months. I never worked and I did 12 border runs back to back to stay. First Samui to Malaysia and then Bangkok to Cambodia. I never felt like anything other than a tourist on an extended holiday and had money as I was planning to go to other countries to travel when I got bored of Thailand.

Now my situation then may or may not be common or rare, but without it I wouldn't be celebrating 10 years of marriage and have a beautiful son.

I'm all for doing things the right way, but I feel that Thailand doesn't help itself. Most want to be legal, but there is no clarity and offers that fit people.

Maybe Thailand doesn't want the traveller type like I was anymore, but in this day and age I would think a lot of graduates see Thailand as a holiday / extended break once they have finished studying. Thailand can be a wonderful country than I and many others visited and decided to stay in. It will be a shame if that option is not open to others in the future.

what country does it the right way and allows a tourist to stay for 13 months?

Well, Thailand used to. Without getting in to what country allows what, I can't see a reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to be a tourist for an extended time. I have no idea what other countries do, but if someone wants to holiday, have fun and spend money, what is the problem?

[KarenBravo]

Well, Thailand used to. Without getting in to what country allows what, I can't see a reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to be a tourist for an extended time. I have no idea what other countries do, but if someone wants to holiday, have fun and spend money, what is the problem?

Yes, they used to because they weren't enforcing the existing rules.

How many genuine tourists want to stay for a year and spend money? One in a thousand?

If you create a way for that genuine tourist to stay, a hundred more will abuse it.

[Deacon Bell]

I think there will be a lot of people with new passports on the way

If they get it while in Thailand, won't they have to transfer the current visa status on to the first page?

Which would kind of defeat the purpose, and also people are being refused entry with their first (double-entry) tourist visa.

Getting a proper visa/extension or moving to another country would probably be better.

[AYJAYDEE]

I think there will be a lot of people with new passports on the way

If they get it while in Thailand, won't they have to transfer the current visa status on to the first page?

Which would kind of defeat the purpose, and also people are being refused entry with their first (double-entry) tourist visa.

Getting a proper visa/extension or moving to another country would probably be better.

who was refused on a first visa?

[KarenBravo]

Which would kind of defeat the purpose, and also people are being refused entry with their first (double-entry) tourist visa.

That's because it was their second, or third tourist visa in a row. Therefore immigration does not deem them a genuine tourist.

[transam]

I know a bloke who is building a "resort" in his gf name that uses a tourist visa for years.

[Tony125]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

As an example, the vast majority of tourists visit a country of a set amount of time and have hotels and flight home booked. I think it would be pretty obvious if you're a tourist or not. Tourists don't stay in the same country for years for example. So those getting back to back visas for years on end are obviously not tourists. There will be some gray areas, but for the vast majority it's very easy to know.

"B--l Sh-- T I live here now on retirement have proper visa but have been visiting Thailand with friends off and on for "14 years " and in the first visit had a hotel booked for first few days of trip afterwards we traveled around picking hotels at random or staying with Thai G/F and going all over by rented car, bus, train for up to 3 weeks. Stayed longer when 9-11 occured because we could not fly home (they would not allow flites from overseas to enter USA) but immigration understood never asked us for more money for overstay. Bottom line we usually only had a hotel for first few nites so having to come here now show some long itinery with hotels , places to visit ect would be somewhat hard for even " real " tourists to do. I think real tourists will come here less if they have to have a whole agenda pre-planned out too much trouble if they have to prove where they are going what they are doing in order to travel around Thailand and nearby areas. Guess those that want to try long time here will have to go online and type up long "vacation" agenda with hotels, travel tickets on Bus, train ect to try long stay. Not really worth it.

[kaobang]

I know a bloke who is building a "resort" in his gf name that uses a tourist visa for years.

i know few ones too(and all are with ed visas not tourist visas)

arrest them,deport them,seize their properties,bank accounts......ban them from thailand forever

but why target genuine tourists who want to spend few months in thailand

[KarenBravo]

but why target genuine tourists who want to spend few months in thailand

They aren't. They can get a double-entry tourist visa from their own country (as long as it isn't back-to-back).

[bkkjames]

I wonder what is going on with others that don't frequent TV - say those from Philippines, China, Vietnam etc. Similar panic and stories of refusal?

[watso63]

I wonder what is going on with others that don't frequent TV - say those from Philippines, China, Vietnam etc. Similar panic and stories of refusal?

Mmmm, exterminate...exterminate...EXTERMINATE!!!

[AYJAYDEE]

but why target genuine tourists who want to spend few months in thailand

They aren't. They can get a double-entry tourist visa from their own country (as long as it isn't back-to-back).

do you know for sure the two entries can be back to back??

[JDGRUEN]

To JDG -- Some persons and governments just have a hard time saying 'NO!' -- the current government apparently doesn't.

And rightfully so ... every country has a right to change their minds on how certain laws are enforced. I don't take issue with it (as if it mattered if I did).

I do take issue with how this has been handled. Why not take people who they wish to bar from Thailand (at least temporarily) and issue them a special limited time pass - say 7 days (as is available)... stamp big red stamps in their passport and let them go back with the written orders that the 'tourist' had to sign and get their belongings - settle their affairs and get out of Thailand. Even if the IOs required the party to get on line - (provide WiFi) and say Book a Flight out of Thailand and I'll let you back in. You have 7 days.

Nothing like this was done. My friends finally got home at 1:00 this morning after spending 2 and 1/2 days in Malaysia, spending lots of cash, go to Penang - get a Tourist Visa .. come back ... All the while on their FIRST attempt to do a border crossing they had a flight out of Thailand booked in June for July 29. They had the printed out flight paperwork - the IOs did not even want to look at them ... So entry was barred. So stupid - why treat genuine tourists like dodgy criminals ... ? Mercy me!!

how many 30 day entries and tourist visas did they have in a row?

Being an innocent minded young German couple .. taking a sort of sabbatical they came to Thailand as advised on a visa on arrival or exemption or whatever it is called. They made border runs to get a total of 120 days. From everything they were exposed to (not being Thaivisa.com junkies) they thought that the border runs were the most appropriate thing to do as it seemed normal ... stamp - stamp - stamp - Sawatdee Khrup - from the friendly faces at the Border Checkpoints . They being real tourists just coupled the border runs with their extensive sight seeing. Booked a flight in June to leave Thailand in July ... and then ... you read the rest of the story. They encountered no information telling them that what they were doing was not the best thing to do. No signs at the Border Checkpoints, no leaflets handed out saying what really should be done to handle a visa... No one ever looked up and said .. you have had too many extensions - this is the last one ... NOTHING..

[KarenBravo]

but why target genuine tourists who want to spend few months in thailand

They aren't. They can get a double-entry tourist visa from their own country (as long as it isn't back-to-back).

do you know for sure the two entries can be back to back??

The visas cannot be back-to-back. We know this as this is why those people were turned away.

I can't say for sure about the entries being back-to-back, but, I don't think it would be a problem as the multi-entry Non-Imm visa holders are not having any problems. Also, you are still using a single double-entry visa which is legal.

There is no time limit set between entries on a multiple entry visa. The important thing is that you are not breaking the letter, or spirit of the law.

[Thai at Heart]

Well, Thailand used to. Without getting in to what country allows what, I can't see a reason why someone shouldn't be allowed to be a tourist for an extended time. I have no idea what other countries do, but if someone wants to holiday, have fun and spend money, what is the problem?

Yes, they used to because they weren't enforcing the existing rules.

How many genuine tourists want to stay for a year and spend money? One in a thousand?

If you create a way for that genuine tourist to stay, a hundred more will abuse it.

Well go and create the way.

If a married bloke needs 400k, how much does a tourist? At the moment there is no new "way" so, one can only conclude that they want to remove a certain type of tourist

As yet, they haven't said why other than working illegally. Surely this is an enforcement and labour dept issue?

[AYJAYDEE]

To JDG -- Some persons and governments just have a hard time saying 'NO!' -- the current government apparently doesn't.

And rightfully so ... every country has a right to change their minds on how certain laws are enforced. I don't take issue with it (as if it mattered if I did).

I do take issue with how this has been handled. Why not take people who they wish to bar from Thailand (at least temporarily) and issue them a special limited time pass - say 7 days (as is available)... stamp big red stamps in their passport and let them go back with the written orders that the 'tourist' had to sign and get their belongings - settle their affairs and get out of Thailand. Even if the IOs required the party to get on line - (provide WiFi) and say Book a Flight out of Thailand and I'll let you back in. You have 7 days.

Nothing like this was done. My friends finally got home at 1:00 this morning after spending 2 and 1/2 days in Malaysia, spending lots of cash, go to Penang - get a Tourist Visa .. come back ... All the while on their FIRST attempt to do a border crossing they had a flight out of Thailand booked in June for July 29. They had the printed out flight paperwork - the IOs did not even want to look at them ... So entry was barred. So stupid - why treat genuine tourists like dodgy criminals ... ? Mercy me!!

how many 30 day entries and tourist visas did they have in a row?

Being an innocent minded young German couple .. taking a sort of sabbatical they came to Thailand as advised on a visa on arrival or exemption or whatever it is called. They made border runs to get a total of 120 days. From everything they were exposed to (not being Thaivisa.com junkies) they thought that the border runs were the most appropriate thing to do as it seemed normal ... stamp - stamp - stamp - Sawatdee Khrup - from the friendly faces at the Border Checkpoints . They being real tourists just coupled the border runs with their extensive sight seeing. Booked a flight in June to leave Thailand in July ... and then ... you read the rest of the story. They encountered no information telling them that what they were doing was not the best thing to do. No signs at the Border Checkpoints, no leaflets handed out saying what really should be done to handle a visa... No one ever looked up and said .. you have had too many extensions - this is the last one ... NOTHING..

why didnt they get tourist visas like any normal tourist would do? most appropriate? everything they were exposed to?

[KarenBravo]

If a married bloke needs 400k, how much does a tourist? At the moment there is no new "way" so, one can only conclude that they want to remove a certain type of tourist

Yes, they want to remove people that are obviously not tourists from using tourist visas and visa exemptions.

It has been explained by Immigration and on TV ad nauseum.

You want to stay long term, get a long term visa.

If you can't qualify for that visa, Thailand doesn't want you.