Foreigners urged to convey 'better understanding' of Thai politics

[soalbundy]

I'm saying nothing to my government until I'm given the full Rachada treatment.

you and me both, i want to see the money first

Edited July 16, 2014 by soalbundy

[soalbundy]

Democracy through dictatorship.

Am I missing something?

Mark Twain said it aptly, ''If voting made any difference they would make it illegal''

[Emster23]

"My country,U.S.A. only supports countries that are a democracy."

I am an American, born and bred. Is this a troll bait? Does this guy only watch Fox? That belief is pure horse poop, historically and currently. Best example now is US support of thugs in Egypt. Far, far worse than anything the junta has done here. No comparison.

I would also guess that foreigners know more about (or could know more about) real Thai situation because of free press and junta not yet censoring English/foreign media feeds. Thais just don't seem to understand that we don't suck up to our supposed "superiors", nod our heads in agreement to whatever line they hand out that day, then turn off our minds.

[Baerboxer]

My country,U.S.A. only supports countries that are a democracy. Thailand is not currently a democracy.

The U.S.A does not support any country that permits slavery. Thailand permits slavery.

What's left to explain?

Oh yeah...come to Thailand and spend your money...but good luck getting a visa!!!!!!!!!!!!

India is the world's biggest democracy.

It also has an estimated 10 million bonded slave workers, which is against the law, but just carries on.

USA - does it sanction India? Or support the overthrow of democracies it doesn't like? How democratic is the USA in reality?

[Travel2003]

So they are relying on foreign business people to explain to their countrymen how Thai politics work? Thais cannot explain it to themselves, much less the rest of the world. What a joke.

Since this is a joke.

Please explain how the Thais should be the one to explain to rest of the world how it works?

How exactly should this be done?

The only way to get this info out is actually for a stranger (visitor) to experience it and relay the info.

[Baerboxer]

What the Thai Foreign Minister does not understand and few foreigners are willing to admit is that foreign businesses love corruption. The corporate power structure of the Anglo-American Empire was built on it during the industrial revolution and it feeds on it. During the last century it nurtured it and honed it to a fine edge.The history post World War II years is replete with glaring examples. After IT&T offed Allende, Pinochet was made Chilean President. How long did the USA support Marcos, Papa Doc, Sandanistas, Battista, Chiang Kai Chek, the Diems in S. Vietnam, ... and that ilk? When you can buy whomever you want, you have all the stability you will ever need. Democratic governments are the enemy of capitalism. They are motivated by such arbitrary values as morality, popularism, rules of law, effects of cultural diversity, economic movements and trends. Corruption has only one motivation, greed. And that is stable and dependable. So, while the Juntas ambitions, vis-à-vis the elimination of corruption, is admirable and deserving of our hopes for their success, the outcome of that program could eventually spell economic pain as foreign businesses begin looking for labor markets under the control of buyable political leaders.

Yeah its great.

These days foreigners go to jail under the foreign corrupt business acts.

Those days are gone.

The US and UK have substantially strengthened their anti-bribery legislation and many major American and European MNCs have been embroiled in recent and ongoing corruption cases.

"Those days are gone" - far from it which is why they have had to beef up their laws.

[lostmebike]

We the foreigners in this country are treated pretty much like a second class citizens,

so what different is what we "convey" and to whom and where? no Thai official listen

to us any way,

and beside, the day Thai people will understand what is REALLY going on in their own politics

than they can ask as the Mai Ru Liang class (don't understand) to "understand...

Agreed.

We should help Thailand just as Thailand helps us Foreigners.

[soalbundy]

So they are relying on foreign business people to explain to their countrymen how Thai politics work? Thais cannot explain it to themselves, much less the rest of the world. What a joke.

Since this is a joke.

Please explain how the Thais should be the one to explain to rest of the world how it works?

How exactly should this be done?

The only way to get this info out is actually for a stranger (visitor) to experience it and relay the info.

but only if the money is right

[Thai at Heart]

What the Thai Foreign Minister does not understand and few foreigners are willing to admit is that foreign businesses love corruption. The corporate power structure of the Anglo-American Empire was built on it during the industrial revolution and it feeds on it. During the last century it nurtured it and honed it to a fine edge.The history post World War II years is replete with glaring examples. After IT&T offed Allende, Pinochet was made Chilean President. How long did the USA support Marcos, Papa Doc, Sandanistas, Battista, Chiang Kai Chek, the Diems in S. Vietnam, ... and that ilk? When you can buy whomever you want, you have all the stability you will ever need. Democratic governments are the enemy of capitalism. They are motivated by such arbitrary values as morality, popularism, rules of law, effects of cultural diversity, economic movements and trends. Corruption has only one motivation, greed. And that is stable and dependable. So, while the Juntas ambitions, vis-à-vis the elimination of corruption, is admirable and deserving of our hopes for their success, the outcome of that program could eventually spell economic pain as foreign businesses begin looking for labor markets under the control of buyable political leaders.

Yeah its great.

These days foreigners go to jail under the foreign corrupt business acts.

Those days are gone.

The US and UK have substantially strengthened their anti-bribery legislation and many major American and European MNCs have been embroiled in recent and ongoing corruption cases.

"Those days are gone" - far from it which is why they have had to beef up their laws.

What are you talking about. My previous employer removed two country managers because they could not prevent ongoing payments by reps.

Another employer paid hundreds of thousands to undergo global training for foreign corrupt business act compliance.

It will never be removed 100% but believe me, it is a very different playing field to 30 years ago. The fact that these MNCs are in the news is testament.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Baerboxer]

Wow-the flippin nerve to ask us for help in understanding-perhaps the Thai Government should try listening to our complaints and suggestions just once,on how we feel about living in Thailand and how the Farangs lot could be improved,then we might think of helping them,as it is I would have zero impetus to praise Thailand in any way.Presently the country seems to be imploding and little wonder.Perhaps the Thais should begin with really following Buddhas teachings ,at least the monks could observe AHIMSA and no eating of animal flesh,rather than just make meditate on all the excuses why they can.Most other Buddhists properly follow Buddha and observe vegetarianism(China-Taiwan-India)The disease should be rooted out at the core.The proof is in the pudding ...so immediately now ,some of the the readers of this text ,especially the Thais, will be saying to themselves"then why dont you just go back home if you dont like it."Perhaps we would like to make Thailand our home-the whole world belongs to God,not to Thais or Americans etc.etc.How long will we be Thais or Europeans-100 years max then maybe animals or trees.Will nationality matter when we are trotting throughout Chiang mai in a dogs body.Get it together folks,you are half way there-why spoil it now.

I think it's quite a reasonable request. I've certainly been embarrassed by the very blinkered propaganda that has been spouted as journalism from the main media representative of my country here.

Quite frankly, it's nothing more that a lobbyist or PR company would spin. Certainly not objective balanced journalism, presenting all sides fairly and presenting all facts. Very selective and very biased. This was similar in 2010 and little has changed.

Time more people here started complaining about some of the reporting quality being fed back.

[xminator]

Oh but foreigners understand thai politics, its just that foreigners understanding of thai politics hit a bit too close to home and not what thai politicians think foreigners should understand about thai politics.

Why not just rephrase the wording to, Shut up dirty Farang, give us your money and be happy about it!

[soalbundy]

Wow-the flippin nerve to ask us for help in understanding-perhaps the Thai Government should try listening to our complaints and suggestions just once,on how we feel about living in Thailand and how the Farangs lot could be improved,then we might think of helping them,as it is I would have zero impetus to praise Thailand in any way.Presently the country seems to be imploding and little wonder.Perhaps the Thais should begin with really following Buddhas teachings ,at least the monks could observe AHIMSA and no eating of animal flesh,rather than just make meditate on all the excuses why they can.Most other Buddhists properly follow Buddha and observe vegetarianism(China-Taiwan-India)The disease should be rooted out at the core.The proof is in the pudding ...so immediately now ,some of the the readers of this text ,especially the Thais, will be saying to themselves"then why dont you just go back home if you dont like it."Perhaps we would like to make Thailand our home-the whole world belongs to God,not to Thais or Americans etc.etc.How long will we be Thais or Europeans-100 years max then maybe animals or trees.Will nationality matter when we are trotting throughout Chiang mai in a dogs body.Get it together folks,you are half way there-why spoil it now.

I think it's quite a reasonable request. I've certainly been embarrassed by the very blinkered propaganda that has been spouted as journalism from the main media representative of my country here.

Quite frankly, it's nothing more that a lobbyist or PR company would spin. Certainly not objective balanced journalism, presenting all sides fairly and presenting all facts. Very selective and very biased. This was similar in 2010 and little has changed.

Time more people here started complaining about some of the reporting quality being fed back.

Why ? When you are pushed to the periphery of society,not allowed a voice in the country you call home,are given no security of abode,why should we shout viva la Thailand ? What goes around comes around. As an Englishman i worked for over 40 years in Germany where my participation was wanted and encouraged i even had communal voting rights,that sort of treatment encourages love of the host country,not the way the Thai authorities are going about things. Let them sort it out themselves.

[transam]

It is not up to foreign businesses to spread the propaganda. They are quite capable of forming their own opinions and to tell it as they really see it.

I think we all know how it is, if we know I am absolutely sure the rest of the "business" world and governments know. BUT, not sure if LOS knows we all know...... .......

[John1thru10]

Democracy through dictatorship.

Am I missing something?

You are indeed. And it's because, along with most Western journalists and politicians, you are reacting to words rather than facts.

In Western minds, words like 'military coup', 'junta', 'dictatorship' have the power to conjure up some very disturbing references, such as Pinochet (1973), Mussolini, Franco, the Greek Colonels (1967), Ceaucescu, etc. But if we look at the facts, what happened here has nothing in common with those historical (and indeed tragic) events. Thailand was clearly spiralling down into senseless violence, anger was mounting, pathetic egos on both sides were blocking all possibilities of compromise and understanding at the cost of human lives, the ugly face of civil war was becoming more of a possibility with every new senseless death, and the coup put an end to all this, without hurting anyone. That. Is. A. Fact.

Democracy, no one will deny, is one beautiful and promising concept. But there is a huge gap between what real democracy is supposed to be like, and the noxious political environment which allowed the Thaksin family to seize power in this country. Incidentally in Western countries where elections are basically won with massive amounts of money by manipulating the voters minds through the media, I believe that democracy is also becoming more and more of a demockracy. Read Al Gore's The Assault on Reason for first hand confirmation as to how electoral campaigns really work in the country that never ceases to pose as the ultimate and universal champion of democracy.

Almost all the Western comments about the Thai situation repeatedly oppose the 2 concepts as if it were understood by all that these concepts are clear and self-evident in the context of recent events. Well, they are not. The former government had not been 'democratically elected' because the level of manipulation was outrageous and the 'coup' was not a bloody takeover staged by some power-thirsty military group or person in order to subdue and utilise this country for their personal benefit.

I have to say something about this. This is almost verbatim to what I expressed originally, myself. And something I dearly hoped to believe. But I am no longer convinced. The more I've heard the oft' repeated reasons for these actions, and looked around with my own experience, and some years of study regarding Thai history, I no longer beleive the position you've stated here, and which I orginally supported myself.

The reason routinely stated for the negative spirit sweeping immigration, for example, is the meme of 'illegally working on tourist visas'. Thai unemployment is at 1% - and that 1% will not be made 0% ever, because no country every reaches a goal of 0 unemployment. 1% unemployment is as good as that number is possible to be, anywhere. Also, the vast majority of foriegners working in Thailand, are English teachers. So those are not jobs being taken 'from' Thais, in any significant way. They are not specifically targeting businesses which employ foreigners, either, which would be the most obvious and logical place to begin, if 'working illegally' was really the issue as is repeated every day. Changing the subject for emotional reasons (as people here do often), to expressions like 'get rid of the riff raff' and statements like that, border on an unthinking mob mentality where vast numbers of people are led by emotional prejudices, which is never a positive in history.

If the goal were to 'end corruption' as is also stated, then likewise there would be much more immediate and logical steps to take internally, and instead, what we see is a blaming of foreigners across the board, again. Another illogical reaction which simply invokes a spirit of angry nationalism. You cannot defend it by pointing to another country which does the same thing, as it is a negative regardless.

I've had a lot of friends in Thailand over the years, from the highest positions in Thai society (really), to the lowest paid workers, and I can say from my experience with them, that lower classes of people in Thailand feel notably and brutally oppressed at this time. Saying that does not in any way mean that I support violence (because I do not), or that I am against the yellow party (which I am not against, either).

I listened extremely closely to the Junta's speech, at the beginning of the crackdown. In the last 10-15 minutes of his speech, he expressed clearly (apparently, after most posters here had stopped paying attention) that what he seeks is an end to 'western influence' - he specifically blamed the political problems in Thailand on 'western movies' and other cultural ideas and references like that. He specifically stated that Thai's must become 'more Thai again' - and, if you know the political history of Thailand (and I'm talking about more than a couple years, but going back to the end of WWII at least), then that statement means, get in line or know the consequences. Millions and millions of Thai people in Thailand feel their spirits crushed at this time. And while it is not an easy situation to describe in one view, their spirits do matter greatly. And the visa crackdown, is actually an attempt to rid Thaialnd of a western 'influence' - whereby poorer Thais have an example to look towards - and since that is a much more difficult statement to make overtly for the Junta, instead it seeks to demonize westerners in other ways, such as repeating the propaganda that westerners 'steal jobs', or are 'criminals', or responsible for 'corruption'. Xenophobia, historically, anywhere, has never led to positive results.

I dearly love Thailand, Thai people, and Thai culture. And when I say that, I am not describing history as being limited to the last several years (the way most people here seem to), or night clubs, or bar girls, or beer, or watching football. I've studied historical Thai culture with a true passion for years, and the particulars of Buddhism and other subjects I'm not allowed to mention here for political reasons. And I've never worked in Thailand, for that matter. I had an unusual entry into Thailand orignally, which moved me to want to understand the culture as something more than just a way to relax, and my own self interests. The repression of millions and millions of people, is nothing to be defended simply because it allows a foreigner who happnes to find themselves on the comfortable side of a situation at the moment, to have a relaxing time.

Edited July 16, 2014 by John1thru10

[soalbundy]

Democracy through dictatorship.

Am I missing something?

You are indeed. And it's because, along with most Western journalists and politicians, you are reacting to words rather than facts.

In Western minds, words like 'military coup', 'junta', 'dictatorship' have the power to conjure up some very disturbing references, such as Pinochet (1973), Mussolini, Franco, the Greek Colonels (1967), Ceaucescu, etc. But if we look at the facts, what happened here has nothing in common with those historical (and indeed tragic) events. Thailand was clearly spiralling down into senseless violence, anger was mounting, pathetic egos on both sides were blocking all possibilities of compromise and understanding at the cost of human lives, the ugly face of civil war was becoming more of a possibility with every new senseless death, and the coup put an end to all this, without hurting anyone. That. Is. A. Fact.

Democracy, no one will deny, is one beautiful and promising concept. But there is a huge gap between what real democracy is supposed to be like, and the noxious political environment which allowed the Thaksin family to seize power in this country. Incidentally in Western countries where elections are basically won with massive amounts of money by manipulating the voters minds through the media, I believe that democracy is also becoming more and more of a demockracy. Read Al Gore's The Assault on Reason for first hand confirmation as to how electoral campaigns really work in the country that never ceases to pose as the ultimate and universal champion of democracy.

Almost all the Western comments about the Thai situation repeatedly oppose the 2 concepts as if it were understood by all that these concepts are clear and self-evident in the context of recent events. Well, they are not. The former government had not been 'democratically elected' because the level of manipulation was outrageous and the 'coup' was not a bloody takeover staged by some power-thirsty military group or person in order to subdue and utilise this country for their personal benefit.

I have to say something about this. This is almost verbatim to what I expressed originally, myself. And something I dearly hoped to believe. But I am no longer convinced. The more I've heard the oft' repeated reasons for these actions, and looked around with my own experience, and some years of study regarding Thai history, I no longer beleive the position you've stated here, and which I orginally supported myself.

The reason routinely stated for the negative spirit sweeping immigration, for example, is the meme of 'illegally working on tourist visas'. Thai unemployment is at 1% - and that 1% will not be made 0% ever, because no country every reaches a goal of 0 unemployment. 1% unemployment is as good as that number is possible to be, anywhere. Also, the vast majority of foriegners working in Thailand, are English teachers. So those are not jobs being taken 'from' Thais, in any significant way. They are not specifically targeting businesses which employ foreigners, either, which would be the most obvious and logical place to begin, if 'working illegally' was really the issue as is repeated every day. Changing the subject ,emotionally (as people here do often), to expressions like 'get rid of the riff raff' and statements like that, border on a mob mentality where vast numbers of people are judged only on emotional prejudices, which is never a positive in history.

If the goal were to 'end corruption' as if also stated, then likewise there would be much more immediate and logical steps to take internally, and instead, what we see is a blaming of foreigners across the board, instead. Another illogical reaction which simply invokes a spirit of angry nationalism.

I've had a lot of friends in Thailand over the years, from the highest positions close to the royal family, to red shirt low paid workers, and I can say from my experience with them, that lower classes of people in Thailand are being notably and brutally oppressed at this time. Saying that does not in any way mean that I support violence (because I don't), or that I am against the yellow party (which I am not against, either).

I listened extremely closely to the Junta's speech, at the beginning of the crackdown. In the last 10-15 minutes of his speech, he expressed clearly (apparently, after most posters here had stopped paying attention it seems) that what he seeks is an end to 'western influence' - he specifically blamed the political problems in Thailand on 'western movies' and other cultural ideas and references like that. He specifically stated that Thai's must become 'more Thai again' - and, if you know the political history of Thailand (and I'm talking about more than a couple years now, but going back to the end of WWII at least), then that statement means, get in line or know the consequences. Many Thai people in Thailand feel their spirits crushed at this time. And the visa crackdown, is actually an attempt to rid Thaialnd of a western 'influence' - whereby poorer Thais have an example to look towards - and since that is a much more difficult statement to make overtly for the Junta, instead it seeks to demonize westerners in other ways, such as repeating as a propaganda that westerners 'steal jobs', or are 'criminals', or responsible for 'corruption'. Xenophobia, historically, anywhere, has never led to positive results for a country.

History has shown that when the coup ends and we have a '"democratically elected government'' everything will swing back to the way it was.It is too late to stop western influence,this is the age of internet,Thailand relies on trade with the outside world,all the goodies come from us.The occasional Thai outburst against the west just shows up their inferiority complex that they have regarding farangs,or as i overheard my oldest step daughter tell her teacher who was visiting our home,''Falang are just better than we are,its just the way it is'"

[Dublin]

Seriously !!!!

Thailand as a whole does not understand Thai politics & they want foreigners to have a better understanding, come on really, I think the most common understanding is bribery & Corruption money talks bull shit walks you want something you pay. and not just thailand most of asia works to this system so Im not pointing fingers.

[abrahamzvi]

I formulated a post of some length to reply to the OP, and decided to delete it. frack it....

How to explain to the world that thailand has a weak police force, that fails to protect the people and the peace and uphold the laws fo the nation, leading to an open door policy with the Army to step in..... It will happen again and again and again, so get used to, and understand its not a coup its a hostile takeover of upper management.

I wish everyone all the best in this hostile job market

I totally and utterly disagree with your comments and others voiced here. It is true that there are many things that ought to be corrected and put in order in Thailand, which can make this beautiful country one of the "pearls of the east". It is practically self sufficient, has many skilled people, and offers a lot of opportunities for people abiding the laws. However, many things, including plundring this country, misusing and not abiding the laws, distorting the educational system and others, that the present Military rulers are now trying to correct. Some of the positive actions are already visible and one can only hope that they will continue with their positive efforts until such time as this society is healed from some of its ills and can return to a democracy. Democracy is a wonderful system, but at times it has to be temporarily suspended in order to replace chaos by a properly functioning democracy. I do believe that this is what is happening in Thailand now.

[Rorri]

My country,U.S.A. only supports countries that are a democracy. Thailand is not currently a democracy.

The U.S.A does not support any country that permits slavery. Thailand permits slavery.

What's left to explain?

Oh yeah...come to Thailand and spend your money...but good luck getting a visa!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks for explaining that

now i understand why things are the way they are in the good old democratic u.s.of a

btw...my money seems to last longer here

Your money might last longer here, but where did you earn it... certainly not in Thailand.

[John1thru10]

I formulated a post of some length to reply to the OP, and decided to delete it. frack it....

How to explain to the world that thailand has a weak police force, that fails to protect the people and the peace and uphold the laws fo the nation, leading to an open door policy with the Army to step in..... It will happen again and again and again, so get used to, and understand its not a coup its a hostile takeover of upper management.

I wish everyone all the best in this hostile job market

I totally and utterly disagree with your comments and others voiced here. It is true that there are many things that ought to be corrected and put in order in Thailand, which can make this beautiful country one of the "pearls of the east". It is practically self sufficient, has many skilled people, and offers a lot of opportunities for people abiding the laws. However, many things, including plundring this country, misusing and not abiding the laws, distorting the educational system and others, that the present Military rulers are now trying to correct. Some of the positive actions are already visible and one can only hope that they will continue with their positive efforts until such time as this society is healed from some of its ills and can return to a democracy. Democracy is a wonderful system, but at times it has to be temporarily suspended in order to replace chaos by a properly functioning democracy. I do believe that this is what is happening in Thailand now.

I do not admire you for the statement, "Democracy is a wonderful system, but at times it has to be temporarily suspended", because even recent world history has shown, that temporary suspensions are never very temporary in practice.

George Bush stated exactly that sentence, in fact. It led to war crimes such as the illegal use of torture, certain ethnic groups having their civil rights clearly vioated at will, the unwarranted (and unreported) detainment of thousands of people outside any legal jurisdiction (no proof required), an unparalleled expansion of government spying, 2 of the longest and most expensive (and deadliest) wars in U.S. history - and no end in sight, more than a decade later.

Is that what you support, as well? Because all of that began with literally (very literally) the same sentence as you use here.

Edited July 16, 2014 by John1thru10

[soalbundy]

I formulated a post of some length to reply to the OP, and decided to delete it. frack it....

How to explain to the world that thailand has a weak police force, that fails to protect the people and the peace and uphold the laws fo the nation, leading to an open door policy with the Army to step in..... It will happen again and again and again, so get used to, and understand its not a coup its a hostile takeover of upper management.

I wish everyone all the best in this hostile job market

I totally and utterly disagree with your comments and others voiced here. It is true that there are many things that ought to be corrected and put in order in Thailand, which can make this beautiful country one of the "pearls of the east". It is practically self sufficient, has many skilled people, and offers a lot of opportunities for people abiding the laws. However, many things, including plundring this country, misusing and not abiding the laws, distorting the educational system and others, that the present Military rulers are now trying to correct. Some of the positive actions are already visible and one can only hope that they will continue with their positive efforts until such time as this society is healed from some of its ills and can return to a democracy. Democracy is a wonderful system, but at times it has to be temporarily suspended in order to replace chaos by a properly functioning democracy. I do believe that this is what is happening in Thailand now.

I do not admire you for the statement, "Democracy is a wonderful system, but at times it has to be temporarily suspended", because history has show, temporary suspensions are never very temporary in practice.

George Bush stated exactly your statement, in fact. It led to war crimes such as the illegal use of torture, the unwarranted (and unreported) detainment of thousands of people outside any legal jurisdiction (no proof required), an unparalleled expansion of government spying, 2 of the longest and most expensive (and deadliest) wars in U.S. history - and no end in sight a decade later. And all beginning with literally the same sentence as you use here. I do not admire you for making the statement yourself, here.

Seems pretty temporary here,in fact its more like a merry-go-round.

[MrY]

My country,U.S.A. only supports countries that are a democracy. Thailand is not currently a democracy.

The U.S.A does not support any country that permits slavery. Thailand permits slavery.

What's left to explain?

Oh yeah...come to Thailand and spend your money...but good luck getting a visa!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mother of God, we have another live one!!!

Off the top of my head just SOME of the "democraticisms" the Good Ole US of A has sponsored, past and current:

Chile junta

Egypt junta

Taleban

Greek junta

Argentina junta

Contras

Paraguay junta

Noriega

South Vietnam

Cambodia

El Salvador

Persia

Marcos

Saddam Hussein (pre-Kuwait)

Apartheid

Haiti

...and that's just some of them openly admitted and easily verifiable.

You've got an 'F', back to school....

Edited July 16, 2014 by MrY

[jpeg]

I formulated a post of some length to reply to the OP, and decided to delete it. frack it....

How to explain to the world that thailand has a weak police force, that fails to protect the people and the peace and uphold the laws fo the nation, leading to an open door policy with the Army to step in..... It will happen again and again and again, so get used to, and understand its not a coup its a hostile takeover of upper management.

I wish everyone all the best in this hostile job market

I totally and utterly disagree with your comments and others voiced here. It is true that there are many things that ought to be corrected and put in order in Thailand, which can make this beautiful country one of the "pearls of the east". It is practically self sufficient, has many skilled people, and offers a lot of opportunities for people abiding the laws. However, many things, including plundring this country, misusing and not abiding the laws, distorting the educational system and others, that the present Military rulers are now trying to correct. Some of the positive actions are already visible and one can only hope that they will continue with their positive efforts until such time as this society is healed from some of its ills and can return to a democracy. Democracy is a wonderful system, but at times it has to be temporarily suspended in order to replace chaos by a properly functioning democracy. I do believe that this is what is happening in Thailand now.

I cannot believe the utter stupidity of this post. Democracy, by it's nature, is a constantly evolving, organic process and any 'temporary suspension' thereof is an oxymoron

I am happy the violence has stopped, but let us not delude ourselves into believing anything other than that this country should have been allowed to engage in this process of evolvement without any strong arm tactics. I too am becoming increasingly skeptical about the reasons given for this coup and it does seem, increasingly, that those who have sole power want to take the country back to some bygone golden age of feudalism completely free of 'Western influence'. And they have the cheek to ask us farang to help them Priceless!

[John1thru10]

I formulated a post of some length to reply to the OP, and decided to delete it. frack it....

How to explain to the world that thailand has a weak police force, that fails to protect the people and the peace and uphold the laws fo the nation, leading to an open door policy with the Army to step in..... It will happen again and again and again, so get used to, and understand its not a coup its a hostile takeover of upper management.

I wish everyone all the best in this hostile job market

I totally and utterly disagree with your comments and others voiced here. It is true that there are many things that ought to be corrected and put in order in Thailand, which can make this beautiful country one of the "pearls of the east". It is practically self sufficient, has many skilled people, and offers a lot of opportunities for people abiding the laws. However, many things, including plundring this country, misusing and not abiding the laws, distorting the educational system and others, that the present Military rulers are now trying to correct. Some of the positive actions are already visible and one can only hope that they will continue with their positive efforts until such time as this society is healed from some of its ills and can return to a democracy. Democracy is a wonderful system, but at times it has to be temporarily suspended in order to replace chaos by a properly functioning democracy. I do believe that this is what is happening in Thailand now.

I do not admire you for the statement, "Democracy is a wonderful system, but at times it has to be temporarily suspended", because history has show, temporary suspensions are never very temporary in practice.

George Bush stated exactly your statement, in fact. It led to war crimes such as the illegal use of torture, the unwarranted (and unreported) detainment of thousands of people outside any legal jurisdiction (no proof required), an unparalleled expansion of government spying, 2 of the longest and most expensive (and deadliest) wars in U.S. history - and no end in sight a decade later. And all beginning with literally the same sentence as you use here. I do not admire you for making the statement yourself, here.

Seems pretty temporary here,in fact its more like a merry-go-round.

Not for my Thai friends who work harder than anyone else I've ever known, and who try to live on a salary of 6k baht a month, while supporting their parents and children at the same time. For them it's been a lifetime.

Edited July 16, 2014 by John1thru10

[Chris Lawrence]

Message to people back home; 'Do as they say not as they do'

Maybe the NCPO needs to walk around the other side of the fence and see how the rest of the world operates?

If they want more people to invest their intellect/skill into Thailand, they may need to understand what these people's needs are. Thailand needs this type of development/not everyone needs Thailand.

[John1thru10]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent people who are thinking of awful people they've observed. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of those people here who talk about the 'undesirables', are in Thailand thsmselves because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. That they don't admit it here, means nothing. It is a statistical FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while claiming routinely that they, themselves are somehow 'vicitimized' by these young people - that these young people 'only want your money' - to be profoundly immoral. Of course they 'only want your money' - that's called their survival, and the only option they have.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! But that would be a huge threat to most of these voices . That would empower those people who are prayed upon here. I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? NO. Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people as soon as possible? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak moral excuse, to say the least. And at best, most of you represent the worst a western society could offer in that way.

Edited July 16, 2014 by John1thru10

[Rorri]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of them are here because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. This is a FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while making negative remarks about all those people, claiming constantly that they are 'vicitimized' by Thai people if they happen to have a discrepancy over a few baht or the like, to be profoundly immoral.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak excuse, to say the least, in order to avoid any type of self reflection or honesty from most voices here.

" I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine," prove it. These are easy words for you to say, but can you back it up. In what area of "work" are you talking about. I know many western police that work harder than Thai police, pollies who work harder than thais, farmers who work hard etc.... in fact, I think many readers could give examples of "lazy" thai workers.

[MrY]

Thailand, one of the "pearls of the east". It is practically self sufficient...

...and Ceylon, Goa, Hong Kong, India, Java , Philippines, Shanghai, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, and that stunning stripper that used to work at Suzie Wong's make the rest of the "Pearl Chain".

Here's some reading on the Thai utopia about 'self-sufficiency'. It's a model, not a fact. I've got no views about this politically, but they are nowhere near reaching this worthy goal. Just saying.

Localism in Thailand

[John1thru10]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of them are here because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. This is a FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while making negative remarks about all those people, claiming constantly that they are 'vicitimized' by Thai people if they happen to have a discrepancy over a few baht or the like, to be profoundly immoral.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak excuse, to say the least, in order to avoid any type of self reflection or honesty from most voices here.

" I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine," prove it. These are easy words for you to say, but can you back it up. In what area of "work" are you talking about. I know many western police that work harder than Thai police, pollies who work harder than thais, farmers who work hard etc.... in fact, I think many readers could give examples of "lazy" thai workers.

You're utterly blind to say you need 'proof' of that. They are working all around you, every day. They are your maids, the gardeners who manicure your environment, your security guard, the people reparing houses across the soi, cooking your food, bringing you your beer....I could go on and on. Sociopathic of you, in fact, to not have noticed their struggles behind those smiles by now. Or, do you actually believe they find it a pleasure to serve you?

When you characterize 'lazy Thai people', is speaks to your racism. And is a justification you make for taking advantage. And, you conveniently overlook the salary aspect, I notice. Let me guess, you blame the poor for their own low salaries, as well.

Edited July 16, 2014 by John1thru10

[Rorri]

There are other, major issues that Thailand faces, which I have yet to hear the Junta (or practically anyone here) express any concern over, ever - which is more than telling. We're usually not even allowed to address it.

One, is the class system in Thailand, which oppresses millions, and which is at the root of it's political turmoil. I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine, and are expected to survive AND simultaneously support parents and children, on a salary of about 6k baht per month. I hear all the dehumanizing excuses that westerners make, in their attempt to overlook those people in order to enjoy themselves without guilt. But it is truly UNACCEPTABLE to build a system on the backs of those individuals that way.

What is the Junta's position on that? I have yet to hear his impassioned speech on the matter. Instead, he tells those people that they should stop watching western movies. That is not an aid to them.

What is the Junta's position on the sex trade, and the utter lack of education and opportunities which forces millions upon millions of young people to throw their lives away to become the servant of any passerby? What is YOUR postition on that, retirees? I never hear it addressed here, other than westerners complainging that these poor young women (and men) don't 'really love them'...in exchange for a few baht, no less.

Every day here, I read other westerners talking about 'getting rid of the undesirables', and I'm sure some of them are very decent. But, we all know here, and are not allowed to mention it, than many (many) of them are here because they can enjoy a luxurious lifestyle at the expense of others. This is a FACT. And I consider those people, when they sit here every day judging who is 'legitimate' or not, before running off to obsess on beer, bar girls and football, while making negative remarks about all those people, claiming constantly that they are 'vicitimized' by Thai people if they happen to have a discrepancy over a few baht or the like, to be profoundly immoral.

The obvious solution to those (massive) problems for Thailand, is education. Education education education! I have yet to hear the Junta address this, even once. Are they closing the sex tourism areas? Are they investing in finding other options for those millions of young people? NO. And...are you guys here? NO.

How can you legitimately belief that, compared to these OBVIOUS problems for millions of people around you everyday - that what you believe the 'real' problem is, is whether some English teacher is on a tourist visa or not? It's a weak excuse, to say the least, in order to avoid any type of self reflection or honesty from most voices here.

" I have many friends in Thailand (who truly represent millions just like them) who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine," prove it. These are easy words for you to say, but can you back it up. In what area of "work" are you talking about. I know many western police that work harder than Thai police, pollies who work harder than thais, farmers who work hard etc.... in fact, I think many readers could give examples of "lazy" thai workers.

You're utterly blind to say you need 'proof' of that. They are working all around you, every day. They are your maids, the gardeners who manicure your environment, your security guard, the people reparing houses across the soi, cooking your food, bringing you your beer....I could go on and on. Sociopathic of you, in fact, to not have noticed their struggles behind those smiles by now. Or, do you actually believe they find it a pleasure to serve you?

When you characterize 'lazy Thai people', is speaks to your racism. And is a justification you make for taking advantage. And, you conveniently overlook the salary aspect, I notice. Let me guess, you blame the poor for their own low salaries, as well.

Racism would be "IF" I said "ALL" Thais, I did not say ALL, get it right. I agree Thais do work...what I commented on was you saying "who their whole lives, have worked harder than most westerners can imagine" which is utter BS, it is you sir, who seems to be "blind". All those occupations you mentioned are also done by many western people in their own country. As for "salary" well it is the Thai government's policy not to encourage paying higher, otherwise it will start a, "local" wage war... we as foreigners do not set national wages. I suggest if you are going to debate, make sure you are smart enough to back up what you say, there are many readers who read these posts.

[MrY]

You're utterly blind to say you need 'proof' of that. They are working all around you, every day. They are your maids, the gardeners who manicure your environment, your security guard, the people reparing houses across the soi, cooking your food, bringing you your beer....I could go on and on. Sociopahtic of you, in fact, to not have noticed their struggles behind those smiles by now. Or, do you actually believe they find it a pleasure to serve you?

When you characterize 'lazy Thai people', is speaks to your racism. And is a justification you make for taking advantage. And, you conveniently overlook the salary aspect, I notice. Let me guess, you blame the poor for their own low salaries, as well.

I also must confess to this 'sociopathic' and 'racist' inability to spot the legions of overworked Thais (but maybe it's just me as I use my time Africa as a yardstick as to what constitutes 'overworked'). Underpaid, for sure, but rarely overworked. Having contracted various work to the locals over the years, it is my experience that even doubling the going (poor) rate will not make them productive. 20,000 baht will not get you a security guard that will not sleep on the job. The expectation here is that they are supposed to pretend to work and you then pretend to pay them. If you need more done, hire more of them at the piss-poor rate they expect and accept.