Australian Shot In Thailand

[george]

Another Aussie shot

BANGKOK: -- A second Australian has been shot in Thailand - a week after a Brisbane woman died in a driveby shooting in Kanchanaburi.

Australian Ambassador Bill Paterson confirmed on Thursday that a 22-yearold man was shot in Chantaburi, near the Cambodian border, on Tuesday night.

Leigh Birkinshaw, 22, from Wagga, south of Sydney, is in a stable condition in a Bangkok Hospital, he said.

The circumstances in which the man was shot were unknown, the ambassador said.

Birkinshaw was moved to Bangkok on Wednesday from Chantaburi, which is about 245 kilometres southeast of the capital.

Queensland nurse Pam Fitzpatrick, 26, died last week after being shot in the neck while drinking with her younger sister and friends at a bar in Kanchanaburi after the AustraliaBrazil World Cup clash.

Thai police are investigating both shootings.

--The Nation 2006-06-29

[Chua]

I feel sorry for this poor mate and hope others can learn to avoid heated altercations with underworld types.

=============== Warning: flame on =========================

But why do incidents like this provoke others to think irrationally and illogically, with no regard for basic math, reason, and understanding?

Even if there is an actual or perceived increase in Farrang shootings, one has to take into account the INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF FARRANGS IN THAILAND. If there were 200% more farrangs here (twice as many as in, say 2001), but only an increase of 50% in the absolute number of violent incidents, that would actually represent a DECREASE PER CAPITA, ie, a decrease in the likelihood that any individual Farrang would be in danger.

So it's possible that Farrang ARE SAFER HERE NOW, than say 5 years ago.. because for sure, the number of Farrang has increased since then at a quite rapid pace, while the crime rate seems only minimally different.

=Chua=

There are three types of lies:

1) White lies

2) Bad lies

3) Statistics

oh, yeah, and Fox News...

[Baht Man]

Well i hope the poor guy survives and makes a more or less full recovery.

A "more or less" full recovery?.

[pakwan]

What the sam hill DOES Wagga Wagga mean anyway?

Not a trend in Farang killings, just select groups. In the past 6 months (look up the stories in the BKK Post and/or Nation if you don't remember) there's been an Australian assrested and deported for living with a 16 yr old "Ward" that he "Rescued" from a poor starving hill tribe 4 yrs earlier. Then there was that bizzare case where an Australian fello was cought sexually molesting bunny rabbits. I still shake my head remembering his lawyer asking to have him freed to wait trial if he were to put a restraining order on him to keep him "More than 100 meters away from PET SHOPS!"

Yes, I know there's many more and no, I don't remember them all, just those with the twist. "Farang Stabbed, Shot, Hung, Beat to death, by Thai Girlfriend, Lover, Bargirl, GF's Husband/Boyfriend" is just not news any more. No more than it was back before the Big Mango.

I'm just wondering (no offence if you don't know these representitives of da lan down under) just how bored you (those) 'aussies' really are?

I'm not synical and I don't wish ill on anyone but there are times when natural seletion has just gotta clean the 'gene' pool before swimming.

[danone]

in case anyone forget in his/her ivory tower:

its a very cruel society here.

land of smiles?

shark teeth hidden inside the smiling faces.

[pakwan]

Hey Chua,

try this equation on your calculator:

X2 = increase farang targets

Y-1= inablility of a limited size society to mass produce criminal eliment

simple supply and demand can prove the number of farang fatalities

the number of farang fatalities may still increase but the % that it could actually be "YOU" could have decreased there by creating the illusion that it is safer

Edited June 29, 2006 by pakwan

[thailand_tom]

i can tell you this.. if thailand either does not care about the welfare of foreigners..weather they are living here or on vacation then its time to move and vacation somewhere else..it seems to me and i have been here a year... that thais really do not like foreigners..i would like to know what happened to the guy who shot the women..and killed her..and the guy who shot the young man..were they arrested..etc..its bad enough that we are not allowed to own land here..when in our own countries thais can..now we have to put up with worrying about someone killing us..and its ok..and i read where someone was saying he thinks the conversation went like..bah..bah..bah and the foreigner got mad..i don't know what part of thailand this guy is living in ..but ..i seen thais get pissed off about 5 balt someone owes them...

[Breema_Ken]

Re- Ramadin's thoughts on this incident.

I wonder if any Farang have paid for the extermination of a Farang in Smileyland?

Wife/husband/pain in the ass that just won't go away...

There must be loads of reasons why this is/has been entertained.

Have any of you pursued a quote on this sort of arrangement?

..."When in Rome"...and all that.

I suspect this is a common thing. No doubt some of the Pattaya clan have cleaned up mistakes this way.

In India it would cost just 1500-4000 baht per hit. Cheap and easy.

Something that I love about thaivisa.com is that you expats are all so ###### honest about Thailand. In India we've got something called indiamike.com. It is a similar forum (more useful for travellers, less news and a smaller expat knowledge base), yet it is so ###### defensive. When I make a comment about Indians being cheaters, liars, and thieves, everyone jumps to their defense. That is no fun.

Keep up the good work you pit bulls!

(and do send your 2000Rs to [email protected])

[kayo]

Maybe us expats should create a "society" that has it's own security.

Say, we hire some robust, highly-trained Israeli commandos as they backpack around SE Asia, and give them a chance to resolve our disputes in a calculated, disciplined, professional style.

Maybe hire the front-man Thai negotiator, who tries to make peace with the Thai businessman, while the two Israeli commandos stand behind him with all of their military toys to protect the negotiator.

If all of us expats throw in 2000 Baht for the year, we'd have plenty to run the program without additional costs per incidence.

Maybe call it "Scores R Us." (I just bought the domain name scoresrus.com). So, whose in?

If it is a successful program, I know expats in many countries would love to buy franchise rights for such an endeavor (expats in India have been begging for such a program!).

Yeah, at leaqst if they are isreali´s, we can get ´em cheap.... Or was that, they only spend cheap but come pricey???

I like the laws in Texas - where Gun Control means hitting what you aim at!

What, like your lawyer?

Signed... DICK Cheney.

To Leigh, I hope you pull through, and that you´ll be okay. Don´t know your story. Don´t know if you are at fault or not, and frankly don´t care, but I hate guns, in all shapes and sizes, including those that pull the trigger on them, so I wish you the best.

Edited June 29, 2006 by kayo

[Chang_paarp]

What the sam hill DOES Wagga Wagga mean anyway?

Wagga is the local Aboriginal language for crow or raven, so Wagga Wagga means many crows. It is an apropriate name for the town.

Funnily enough it is a town with Army, Navy and Air Force bases in it. Why they have a Navy training base over 200km from the nearest ocean beats me. Wagga also has a University, teachers college and a training hospital full of trainee nurses. It can be a fun town to visit.

[ErikaG]

Is there an increase? What are the comparable statistics??

See this site: http://www.murderuk.com/misc/stats.htm

In the UK, about 15 murders every week.

I 'acquired' this statistical information from an apparently reliable source, but I don't know how accurate this is:

THAILAND

1995 - 4,542 (only 2,075 arrested)

1996 - 4,474 (1,934)

1997 - 4,485 (1,091)

1998 - 5,717 (2,168)

1999 - 4,648 (1,802)

2000 - 5,135 (2,043)

UNITED KINGDOM

2000 - 850

So in the yr 2000 the per capita then the percentage is UK 1.42 murders per head of population, versus 8.38 in Thailand.

In the same period in the USA, it was about 5.51%, of which 71% were gun crimes!

So in Thailand in yr 2000, the per capita rate of murder is six times higher than the UK, since the populations are roughly equal. But, only about 30% of murderers in Thailand are arrested, so the clear up rate is very low.

Would be interesting to know how many out of the murders in Thailand were ferang.

I know Thailand is not Brazil, for farangs or tourists. But in Year 2000, the 5135 murders in Thailand seem to be incredibly too many ! In comparison with the 850 murders of UK, that are so many !

And only 30% of murderers are arrested !

One weak ago, Pam was assassinated, tragically !!

The land of smiles, is turning very bad !

Sawatdee kha.

Erika

[penzman]

Is it just me, or are we seeing an increase in the shootings of farang here? Or are the media just taking up these stories more and more?

Hope this guy is okay, and that the shooter is caught.

Just think of the number of shootings and violent acts (Thais included) you never hear about, either because you don't read the Thai newspapers, or the violent act or murder that doesn't make it to the newspapers, commited by an influential figure who is under police protection, illegal aliens killed and never declared as missing, etc..

BAN FIREARMS, there's nothing left to hunt anyway. SEVERE PUNISHMENT to those caught in possession of firearms. That's all.

[kayo]

Breema, I agree with you. Unfortunately, little we can do about it. We´ve had this a thousand times. Darned censors. (I never use that word, I use the one you mentioned.

it´s kind of sh1t, innit?

Anyway, stay on topic man.

Edited June 29, 2006 by kayo

[catwho]

One thing i have learnt from living here,never argue with a thai man especially,,,woman too ,but we always argue with them.

thais act first,cause they loose face and worry about it later.

besides if they go to jail ,they are all use to living close to each other and they get a feed.

as hard as it is,, always ,say ka tawd kurp.[sorry ]and leave ....and if you see trouble brewing leave.

[Backpack_thailand]

BAN FIREARMS, there's nothing left to hunt anyway. SEVERE PUNISHMENT to those caught in possession of firearms. That's all.

Absolutely! Checking some of the stats quoted on the sites mentioned on this thread, Thailand, USA etc. which are "gun cultures" have a massively higher murder rate than say UK which had a tiny amount.

UK Murders: 800+

Thailand Murders: 5,000+

USA Murders: 16,000+

In UK it's illeagal to own a hand gun - it's not rocket science is it!

Ban guns altogether, take away the option of killing. If people have a beef let's go back the good old days when you stood toe-to-toe knocking 7 shades of <deleted> out of each other...!!!

[Kerryd]

BAN FIREARMS, there's nothing left to hunt anyway. SEVERE PUNISHMENT to those caught in possession of firearms. That's all.

Hmmmm, I received my first rifle when I was 9 years old (an old bolt action .22 calibre Cooey. Still have it in fact, 36 years later !)

I now own a number of rifles, shotguns and handguns (not here in Thailand though). In all those years, I've never shot at anyone, or used a firearm in any illegal manner.

I was fairly successful at the couple of civilian shooting competitions I entered, and usually scored near the top in every military qualification I did over 22 years of service.

When home, I often have to carry a firearm due to my work and location. Thus far I'm never had to use it, mostly due to good pre-planning, knowledge and experience.

Should I be subject to "SEVERE PUNISHMENT" ?

[Backpack_thailand]

BAN FIREARMS, there's nothing left to hunt anyway. SEVERE PUNISHMENT to those caught in possession of firearms. That's all.

Hmmmm, I received my first rifle when I was 9 years old (an old bolt action .22 calibre Cooey. Still have it in fact, 36 years later !)

I now own a number of rifles, shotguns and handguns (not here in Thailand though). In all those years, I've never shot at anyone, or used a firearm in any illegal manner.

I was fairly successful at the couple of civilian shooting competitions I entered, and usually scored near the top in every military qualification I did over 22 years of service.

When home, I often have to carry a firearm due to my work and location. Thus far I'm never had to use it, mostly due to good pre-planning, knowledge and experience.

Should I be subject to "SEVERE PUNISHMENT" ?

Well done to you sir! You are one individual and I agree that there are more "responsible" gun users than not.

But, answer these...

1. If you give 1,000 people guns and they all got into an argument with someone, what are the chances of a tragedy???

Answer: Could be 1, could be a few, could be all of them!

2. If you had 1,000 people WITHOUT guns and they all got into an argument with someone, what are the chances of a tragedy???

Answer: NO CHANCE AT ALL!

As I said before, it's not rocket science!

[Sturbuc]

...

Even if there is an actual or perceived increase in Farrang shootings, one has to take into account the INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF FARRANGS IN THAILAND. If there were 200% more farrangs here (twice as many as in, say 2001), but only an increase of 50% in the absolute number of violent incidents, that would actually represent a DECREASE PER CAPITA, ie, a decrease in the likelihood that any individual Farrang would be in danger.

.....

well, do you think e.g. 100 shootings before,

100 thais,

100 tourists -> 1 per capita

now 150 shootings,

100 thais,

150 tourist -> 1,5 per capita

means a decrease......

[oevna]

I can't believe he's from a place called Waga Waga

My father is from a place called Walla Walla.

Back on topic though... I think this is a combination of a few unusual recent events, plus much greater access to international news media. Despite Thailand still having a fair ammount of corruption, I think it is still a safer place than it was 10 or 20 years ago. And back then, nobody outside of the local area and maybe the victim's home town would ever hear about it. Now here I am sitting at my desk at work on the other side of the world reading about local news in Chanthaburi.

[oevna]

BAN FIREARMS, there's nothing left to hunt anyway. SEVERE PUNISHMENT to those caught in possession of firearms. That's all.

Absolutely! Checking some of the stats quoted on the sites mentioned on this thread, Thailand, USA etc. which are "gun cultures" have a massively higher murder rate than say UK which had a tiny amount.

UK Murders: 800+

Thailand Murders: 5,000+

USA Murders: 16,000+

In UK it's illeagal to own a hand gun - it's not rocket science is it!

Ban guns altogether, take away the option of killing. If people have a beef let's go back the good old days when you stood toe-to-toe knocking 7 shades of <deleted> out of each other...!!!

Nothing's absolute, which is why even though I believe that I ought to be able to own a gun, I also know that there are plenty of idiots who shouldn't, and my ability to get a gun means their ability to get a gun. So I am grudgingly against gun ownership.

[Lacoste]

Though this was writen some six years ago i think it raises some valid points to think about, Though i dont agree with all the points made, and while it is obviously put together by a pro-gun supporter it is still worth a read.

I am English by the way and dont advocate the right to bear arms, though i am a member of a gun club in Bangkok and enjoy shooting at the range very much.

What do you think?

Great Britain, which gave birth to the great political philosophy of classic liberalism and to America, the flowering of Western civilization, is in moral decline.

Not content with holding Gen. Augusto Pinochet hostage, Britain now holds its own citizens hostage like an authoritarian nation that distrusts its own citizens with firearms.(1)

Since 1996, when a madman went on a rampage killing 16 children and their teacher in Dunblane, Scotland, Great Britain has tightened to strangulation its already draconian gun control laws so that only certified members of approved target-shooting clubs are allowed to own guns. These must be .22 caliber or smaller and must be kept locked up at the club at all times.

Guns have been virtually banned, and the God-given right to self-defense has been virtually abrogated in England.

Dramatic Increase in Robberies and Other Crime

And yet, crime has steadily risen in Britain in the last several years. The U.S. Department of Justice says a person is nearly twice as likely to be robbed, assaulted or have a vehicle stolen in Britain as in the United States. Although the U.S. remains ahead of Britain in rates of murder and rape, the gap is rapidly narrowing.

And while robberies rose 81 percent in England and Wales, they fell 28 percent in the United States. Likewise, assaults increased 53 percent in England and Wales but declined 27 percent in the United States. Burglaries doubled in England but fell by half in the United States. And while motor vehicle theft rose 51 percent in England, it remained the same in America.

To make matters worse for England – and this is also true for Canada – in those countries where citizens are disarmed in their own homes, day burglary is commonplace and dangerous because criminals know they will not be shot at if caught flagrante delicto. Not so in the U.S., where burglars not only prefer night burglaries but try to make sure homeowners are not in to avoid being shot at by the intended victim.

The rising tide of thievery and burglaries in England has dubbed Britain "a nation of thieves," wrote the London Sunday Times, which noted: "More than one in three British men has a criminal record by the age of 40. While America has cut its crime rate dramatically Britain remains the crime capital of the West. Where have we gone wrong?"(2) Perhaps England should look introspectively.

The most drastic ascendancy of crimes in Britain was found in those types of felonies where recent studies in the U.S. have shown that guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens not only save lives but also protect private property, reduce injuries to good people, and crime is generally deterred.(3)

Writing in the May/June 2000 issue of the Medical Sentinel of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS), Dr. Michael S. Brown writes that while the British laws have disarmed law-abiding citizens, "a black market has flourished, as usual with prohibitions, to supply criminal elements. Up to 3 million illegal guns are in circulation in Britain, leading to a rise in drive-by shootings and gangland-style executions."

Dr. Brown continues, "Young criminals (ages 15 to 25 with prior convictions), according to the Sunday Times, 'own or have access to guns ranging from Beretta submachine guns to Luger pistols, which can be bought from underworld dealers for as little as £200 ($320 U.S.).'"(4) In the U.S., ordinary citizens shoot three times as many criminals in self-defense as do the police.

Recent work by professor John R. Lott Jr. at the University of Chicago has shown that allowing people to carry concealed weapons deters violent crime - without any apparent increase in accidental death or suicide. While neither state waiting periods nor the federal Brady Law is associated with a reduction in crime rates, adopting concealed-carry gun laws cuts death rates from public, multiple shootings like those in Littleton, Colo., this year or Dunblane, Scotland in 1996.

Professor Lott found that when concealed-carry laws went into effect in a given county, murders fell by 8 percent, rapes by 5 percent and aggravated assaults by 7 percent. For each additional year concealed-carry gun laws have been in effect, the murder rate declines by 3 percent, robberies by more than 2 percent and rape by 1 percent.(5)

Women Using Guns for Self-Defense

Moreover, studies in the U.S. have shown that guns are the great equalizer for females when accosted in the streets or assaulted in their homes.

When a woman is armed with a gun, up to 83 percent of the time she will be successful at preventing rape, and only half as likely of being injured in the process.(3) These figures should be good news in the U.S. for the 17 million American women estimated to carry guns, but not for those in Great Britain who have been proscribed from keeping guns for self-protection.

While the number of rapes in the U.S. is still higher than in Great Britain, it is falling, whereas the rate of sex crimes and violent assaults in England and Wales is increasing rapidly because of their permissive criminal justice system and even greater tendency than the U.S. to rehabilitate rather than punish criminals - and, of course, the stringent policy of citizen disarmament.

This pusillanimous policy advertises to sex criminals that they have nothing to fear not only from their criminal justice system but also from their intended victims.

Will the British require another American Revolution to come to their moral senses? Or, instead, will we Americans reject our Second Amendment, the palladium of our liberties and our legacy of freedom?

References

1. Faria, M.A. Jr. "England and Gun Control: Moral Decline of an Empire." Medical Sentinel 1999; 4(2); 52-55.

2. Ungoed-Thomas J. A nation of thieves. London Sunday Times, Jan. 11, 1998.

3. Faria, M.A. Jr. "Medical Warrior: Fighting Corporate Socialized Medicine." Macon, Ga., Hacienda Publishing Inc., 1997, pp. 107-120.

4. Brown, M.S. "Results are in for Britain: 'Less guns,' more crime. Medical Sentinel 2000; 5(3):106, http://www.haciendapub.com.

5. Lott, J.R. "More Guns Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws." Chicago, University of Chicago Press, 1998.

Dr. Miguel A. Faria Jr. is the editor-in-chief of the Medical Sentinel, the official journal of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) and author of "Vandals at the Gates of Medicine: Historic Perspectives on the Battle Over Health Care Reform" (1995) and "Medical Warrior: Fighting Corporate Socialized Medicine" (Macon, Ga., Hacienda Publishing Inc., 1997), http://www.haciendapub.com.

[martinhuahin]

Is it just me, or are we seeing an increase in the shootings of farang here? Or are the media just taking up these stories more and more?

Hope this guy is okay, and that the shooter is caught.

It's impossible to tell if there is a real increase in farang shootings based on anecdotes in the newspapers.

In England there has been a steady decline in violent crime, but the public actually perceive the crime to increase. Rarely is public perception of crime level in sync with the actual levels.

Do you really think this is true?! Since Blair came to power violent crime has gone through the roof, and I should know, I have moved from the most dangerous city in the UK, Nottingham. Gang related gun crime there is out of control. A discussion on this and accurate figures can be found on the BBC, http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/news/newsbeat/...mefigures.shtml also on Nottingham: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5006852.stm

I'm much happier with a peaceful life here in Thailand.

[khall64au]

Thailand is not exactly covering itself in glory at the moment!!!

Ahem! Who is the TOSSER? Bring on the "war on handguns"... give the Thai police some REAL work!

So busy handing out fines for farangs with no motorcycle helmets, farangs not carrying their passports, farangs daring to enjoy themselves prior to nightclub raids, farangs daring to volunteer in post-disaster projects.......... ok, I'll shut up now!

Meanwhile, vicious pricks on motorbikes tour the country shooting dead anyone they feel like... business disputes, dislike of backpackers, no real reason needed.... but shooting deaths are increasing alarmingly all over this country.

On top of global media covering the far southern Muslim insurgency, the world is taking notice of the emergence of lawlessness in Thailand and the time has come to take positive action.

[pschef]

Sorry This has gone so far of topic, when did this tread change to gun control. One poor YOUNG GIR & YOUNG GUY have been shot for what ever reason. lets show some respect. Monty Phython used Wagga Wagga in a scetch as far back as 1970 if any body can remember that. Chateau del Wagga Wagga with a bouquet like a aborigani arm pit, 3 glasses of this and u will never get up

[H2oDunc]

Is it just me, or are we seeing an increase in the shootings of farang here? Or are the media just taking up these stories more and more?

Hope this guy is okay, and that the shooter is caught.

It's impossible to tell if there is a real increase in farang shootings based on anecdotes in the newspapers.

In England there has been a steady decline in violent crime, but the public actually perceive the crime to increase. Rarely is public perception of crime level in sync with the actual levels.

Until I see some real statistics on farang shootings in Thailand, I would be very careful about judging an increase or decrease. Is the murder rate per farang capita increasing? There could be more farang living in Thailand now than 10 years ago? We need to see yearly murder rates, which I am sure is recorded (and available??), compared with farang population.

Who can remember how many farang was shot 5 yars ago? 10? 15? Killed by knife? I certainly don't remember.

Looking at photos of Pattaya, I don't think there's much doubt that more farang live there now than 15 years ago.

Cheers

NM

decrease in Violent crime. Where the hel_l are you getting your figures from mate. here in the the UK we are seeing a big increase in violent crime with murder, gun and knife crime running rampant. If the public, whether here in the Uk or back in LOS percieves there is a rise in these types of crime then things need to be done. If these things are being reported more chances are they are happening more. here in the UK all the powers that be always blame the media for the troubles. I know I feel a lot safer wandering around Thailand than I do around here.

[mazaki]

First of all........goddamnit I'm so sick and tired of hearing all you expats complain about Thailand constantly, everytime you get the chance of saying something negative about the place, you will take it and throw out all your faul and negativeness in the face of us. WHY ARE YOU IN THAILAND ???? Is it because you did something silly in your home country and now you can't return ? Because it sure is a big mystery to me why you stay here when everything is soooooo wrong and bad and Thais apparently to you guys only are waiting for a chance to either kill you, steal from you or hustle you...... GO HOME YOU SOUR TURDS!

That post about proguns....... that one ticks me right off too. It's not exactly Einstein material that lesser guns will kill fewer people and you can take thoose statistics and shuff em' up. Statistics are excaly what was said earlier.... LIES. Its all in the eye of the beholder. How do you interperted statistics ? are we looking at numbers from one month, one year or 10 years, it depends on how you want to use them. If you want to say America had a decrease in rapes and uk increased all you have to do is look for a month where thoose numbers match your so call "statistic" and then you got the numbers you were looking for. EVery country in the world should make it illegal to own or carry a gun, you can have one in a shooting range and thats it PERIOD.

I think we would have a lot more positive atmosphere in this forum if you the "farang" actually tried to spend some time to understand the thais and their culture instead you just get angry and frustrated, it reminds me of USA and their total ignorance of why they are so hated....because they dont want to understand they just want things their way. OK sorry for having such an ill temper but im pretty new to this forum (maybe around 6 months or so and then i signed up) and ive seen so much negative stuff here, that i just couldnt hold it back any longer.

LOL PEACE OUT

[khall64au]

First of all........goddamnit I'm so sick and tired of hearing all you expats complain about Thailand constantly, everytime you get the chance of saying something negative about the place, you will take it and throw out all your faul and negativeness in the face of us. WHY ARE YOU IN THAILAND ???? Is it because you did something silly in your home country and now you can't return ? Because it sure is a big mystery to me why you stay here when everything is soooooo wrong and bad and Thais apparently to you guys only are waiting for a chance to either kill you, steal from you or hustle you...... GO HOME YOU SOUR TURDS!

That post about proguns....... that one ticks me right off too. It's not exactly Einstein material that lesser guns will kill fewer people and you can take thoose statistics and shuff em' up. Statistics are excaly what was said earlier.... LIES. Its all in the eye of the beholder. How do you interperted statistics ? are we looking at numbers from one month, one year or 10 years, it depends on how you want to use them. If you want to say America had a decrease in rapes and uk increased all you have to do is look for a month where thoose numbers match your so call "statistic" and then you got the numbers you were looking for. EVery country in the world should make it illegal to own or carry a gun, you can have one in a shooting range and thats it PERIOD.

I think we would have a lot more positive atmosphere in this forum if you the "farang" actually tried to spend some time to understand the thais and their culture instead you just get angry and frustrated, it reminds me of USA and their total ignorance of why they are so hated....because they dont want to understand they just want things their way. OK sorry for having such an ill temper but im pretty new to this forum (maybe around 6 months or so and then i signed up) and ive seen so much negative stuff here, that i just couldnt hold it back any longer.

LOL PEACE OUT

Thankyou very much for your comments Mr Peace Out / 3 Posts! We, many of us, take every and each opinion (as well as digesting national and global news) into consideration before popping our words out in reply, for the global masses to digest.

[john b good]

Is there an increase? What are the comparable statistics??

See this site: http://www.murderuk.com/misc/stats.htm

In the UK, about 15 murders every week.

I 'acquired' this statistical information from an apparently reliable source, but I don't know how accurate this is:

THAILAND

1995 - 4,542 (only 2,075 arrested)

1996 - 4,474 (1,934)

1997 - 4,485 (1,091)

1998 - 5,717 (2,168)

1999 - 4,648 (1,802)

2000 - 5,135 (2,043)

UNITED KINGDOM

2000 - 850

So in the yr 2000 the per capita then the percentage is UK 1.42 murders per head of population, versus 8.38 in Thailand.

In the same period in the USA, it was about 5.51%, of which 71% were gun crimes!

So in Thailand in yr 2000, the per capita rate of murder is six times higher than the UK, since the populations are roughly equal. But, only about 30% of murderers in Thailand are arrested, so the clear up rate is very low.

Would be interesting to know how many out of the murders in Thailand were ferang.

Maybe I'm simple but how the <deleted> can you have 8.38 (murders) per head of population. Even in the old dart how can you have 1.42 murders per head of population.

I know that you don't get too many Einstein's contributing to the forum but perhaps people should read what they have written before clicking on the "submit" icon.

Edited June 29, 2006 by john b good

[Otis]

BAN FIREARMS, there's nothing left to hunt anyway. SEVERE PUNISHMENT to those caught in possession of firearms. That's all.

Hmmmm, I received my first rifle when I was 9 years old (an old bolt action .22 calibre Cooey. Still have it in fact, 36 years later !)

I now own a number of rifles, shotguns and handguns (not here in Thailand though). In all those years, I've never shot at anyone, or used a firearm in any illegal manner.

I was fairly successful at the couple of civilian shooting competitions I entered, and usually scored near the top in every military qualification I did over 22 years of service.

When home, I often have to carry a firearm due to my work and location. Thus far I'm never had to use it, mostly due to good pre-planning, knowledge and experience.

Should I be subject to "SEVERE PUNISHMENT" ?

Well done to you sir! You are one individual and I agree that there are more "responsible" gun users than not.

But, answer these...

1. If you give 1,000 people guns and they all got into an argument with someone, what are the chances of a tragedy???

Answer: Could be 1, could be a few, could be all of them!

2. If you had 1,000 people WITHOUT guns and they all got into an argument with someone, what are the chances of a tragedy???

Answer: NO CHANCE AT ALL!

As I said before, it's not rocket science!

Wow! What an arguement! What a conclusion! I disagree with you. The intellectual gyrations you had to go through to come up with said conclusion must have required some truly complicated thought processes on the same plane as the complex science of rocketry. Therefore, it must be rocket science. Or are you just pulling my (our) leg(s)? Otis

[Napolean_Complex]

I can't believe he's from a place called Waga Waga

And why would that be "I can't believe he's from a place called Waga Waga"

I am not really wanting to get into some hot debate on place names but there are stranger names than Wagga Wagga.

In canada, there is a place called dildo newfoundland. Beat that