NEVER speak Thai in English Class

[Neeranam]

I was an English teacher here for over a decade and did some a Trinity TESOL course so know what the experts say about using F1 language.

I have kids and observed a teacher at a language school in the grounds of Khon Kaen University. This school has been there for over 10 years so I thought it might be the best.

This was by far the worst teacher I have ever seen!

First he attempted to speak Thai to the 10 year olds. Grammatically wrong and bad pronunciation It was amusing listening to their responses.

Then he gave them a wordsearch handout about fruit and said in Thai - "hide the word", obviously meaning to say find the word. Pathetic teaching and I never enrolled my 7 year old.

How this guy got a job there beats me - there must be a shortage of 'dancing white monkeys" in Khon Kaen.

I've also witnessed terrible Thai teachers trying to Teach Thai and using very bad English.

.

I learned Thai by total immersion. NEVER look for a Thai teacher with good English skills to mean they can teach Thai.

[Scott]

I don't have a problem with that. My Thai is significantly bad enough that no one understands what I am saying! If I need a translation of something, which is very, very rare, I will usually have a Thai teacher do the translation.

Occasionally, I have a brighter student who can help out the others.

In general, this is only done when trying to give a complicated set of instructions.

[Jimmyd]

There is really only one 'never' that is always true--*never* say *never*--(yes, I believe this oxymoronic statement). I would, however, agree that for most native English teachers that almost all lessons should go by without the teachers speaking any Thai, and that Thai students should be encouraged, guided, prodded and cajoled as much as possible into speaking in English as much as possible in class.

[lostinisaan]

This was by far the worst teacher I have ever seen!

First he attempted to speak Thai to the 10 year olds. Grammatically wrong and bad pronunciation It was amusing listening to their responses.

How this guy got a job there beats me - there must be a shortage of 'dancing white monkeys" in Khon Kaen

I was an English teacher here for over a decade and did some a Trinity TESOL course so know what the experts say about using F1 language

If you were a teacher before, so why don't you teach your kids? Oh no, you were just observing a white dancing monkey who was worse in Thai than you are.

I've got 38 grade one kids, who never had English before May this year. If I wouldn't use Thai sometimes, I'd have to look for another position.

I'm not talking about "wrong" Thai now, just explaining words, which saves plenty of time. So you must be fluent in Thai that you could figure out how bad this guy's Thai was.

It's not a pay back thing, because somebody upset you? Sorry, i don't buy your story.Your statement about dancing white monkeys is quite annoying, if you know what i MEAN.

. Unfortunately, you did some a Trinity TESOL course. Congratulations!

P.S. What do the experts say about using F 1 language?

Edited July 17, 2014 by lostinisaan

[SlyAnimal]

I think "NEVER" is definitely too strong, and even "never" is too stronger word lol.

Thai should generally not be used within the classroom, but there are some situations where it is better to speak Thai. Primarily situations where understanding, or speed, are more important than the learning which students receive from total immersion.

Although the examples the OP has given, don't sound like situations where it'd be practical to use Thai. Those are perfect situations to essentially teach the students English, as the teacher will probably use other, similar activities, on a regular basis, and it's an important skill for students to be able to identify and understand questions.

Also yes, if Thai is used, it should be used correctly. But unfortunately most farang don't necessarily know when they're using incorrect Thai grammar/tones, since if they did, they'd likely correct their mistakes.

However if they can still convey understanding in Thai, regardless of grammar/tone mistakes, within 1 minute, which might take 10 minutes to explain in English, then that gives the teacher an additional 9 minutes of teaching time on the topic which he is actually trying to teach.

[CiaranO]

The op sounds like he is one of these near perfect people that has never made a mistake in his life.

Any chance we could observe you teaching ? Let's see how you fair!!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Yooyung]

If you have lived here and taught for more than 5 years and you still cannot speak reasonable Thai then what kind of example are you? I usually find its the guys that cant even order a pad thai without their girlfriends help that complain the loudest. I agree it should not be overused. I am currently teaching at a government school in an IEP program, this is in NakhonNowhere by the way. I basically HAVE to be able to speak Thai or my lessons will take too long. I can speak Thai well, at least I can definitely speak enough Thai for the levels I am teaching. I find that being able to explain myself in Thai, at times when the kids just dont get it....works wonders. The kids also respect me more. They can come up to me and ask me how to translate things they want to say......isnt that what a language teacher does? Isnt that our jobs? My french teacher in Australia spoke English at times.....its a no brainer really isnt it? If someone clearly CANNOT form an understandable sentence in Thai then ok, I think that is a bad idea. However this 'total immersion' fantasy is the realm of disgruntled expat teachers that cannot accept that,the reality of the situation is that they are just not very good at learning the language of the country they has chosen to live in. I can parrot on all day to my students in English. I can 'immerse' them untill they are practically drowning......at the end of the day they will go home and totally forget about what I said, mainly because they couldnt understand 1/4 of it...no matter how much hand waving i did and funny faces I made. They will go home to their tvs and watch Thai soaps with mum and dad. No, I would rather use Thai when necessary to save time and make things CLEAR.

[KarenBravo]

I learnt Thai one on one with a Thai lady. I made sure that her English was good so that she could understand and answer any questions I had,

[Yooyung]

I learnt Thai one on one with a Thai lady. I made sure that her English was good so that she could understand and answer any questions I had,

Its such a hard concept to grasp though....I mean..she actually used English to help you learn??????NEVER...NEVER I SAY....BE OFF WITH YOU!

[stubuzz]

A whole lesson based on a word-search is just a time wasting exercise. It shows a complete lack of professionalism from the lazy teacher. OP, I hope you passed on your thoughts to the school administration.

[bkkgooner]

Anyone who uses a word search as anything other than a quick warmer activity for kids arriving early to language school classes or filler for a lesson that has finished quicker than expected has no interest in the profession and shouldn't be near a classroom.

[Neeranam]

If you were a teacher before, so why don't you teach your kids? Oh no, you were just observing a white dancing monkey who was worse in Thai than you are.

I've got 38 grade one kids, who never had English before May this year. If I wouldn't use Thai sometimes, I'd have to look for another position.

I'm not talking about "wrong" Thai now, just explaining words, which saves plenty of time. So you must be fluent in Thai that you could figure out how bad this guy's Thai was.

It's not a pay back thing, because somebody upset you? Sorry, i don't buy your story.Your statement about dancing white monkeys is quite annoying, if you know what i MEAN.

. Unfortunately, you did some a Trinity TESOL course. Congratulations!

P.S. What do the experts say about using F 1 language?

Because I work on Saturdays and want my kids out the house. Plus I haven't really got the patience to teach my own.

I do speak Thai pretty fluently - been learning for over 20 years.

Sorry if the monkey term offended you - most of us had to start somewhere. 38 kids in a class ! Do you think the school actually care about the kids' learning?

I've been there and there are ways to teach them in English only if you properly prepare the lesson. It takes a lot of energy and the language sticks with the kids.

You're the teacher, google what the experts say, or start a new thread.

"Payback". don't know what you mean and nobody upset me at all.

[Neeranam]

The op sounds like he is one of these near perfect people that has never made a mistake in his life.

Any chance we could observe you teaching ? Let's see how you fair!!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

How do I sound perfect?

I have made thousands of mistakes in my life.

I gave teaching up - amazing how I lasted so long, 13 years. Most don't last that long.

Could probably still give you a few tips if you have the humility to listen.

[nidieunimaitre]

Teaching a language, and thereby using the native language? Really?

When it comes to teaching foreign languages, countries like Belgium set the example.

Not a single word in the native language is spoken in the classroom, or printed in the handbooks.

If you need the native language to explain something, that only proves you are teaching something too early, or in a wrong way.

To learn a new language, the student has to think in that language!

[Yooyung]

Ok, heres a simple hypothetical situation:

Teacher Ling from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology and can speak English well. He uses the fact that he can speak English ( the native tongue of his students) to help explain things, answer any questions...and generally bond with his students.

Teacher Lee from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology but cannot speak a word of English. He repeats himself again and again and again until, perhaps his students have some clue what he is talking about. He cannot joke, bond...even make small talk with his students in their native language....not even to break the ice.

I know which zoology major I would choose to help me improve my Chinese conversation skills..........

Is that unreasonable? If so, how?

[nidieunimaitre]

Ok, heres a simple hypothetical situation:

Teacher Ling from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology and can speak English well. He uses the fact that he can speak English ( the native tongue of his students) to help explain things, answer any questions...and generally bond with his students.

Teacher Lee from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology but cannot speak a word of English. He repeats himself again and again and again until, perhaps his students have some clue what he is talking about. He cannot joke, bond...even make small talk with his students in their native language....not even to break the ice.

I know which zoology major I would choose to help me improve my Chinese conversation skills..........

Is that unreasonable? If so, how?

Please explain why you mention zoology.

Next I will answer your question.

Just want to be sure I am not wasting my time.

[brucetefl]

Anyone who has taken any TESOL course worth its salt will know how to model language (they may use a different terminology).

Context setting and modeling are key.

I speak Cantonese and Mandarin pretty well (used to fluent until too many years in Thailand). When I taught in Hong Kong and China I would not use them because once I spoke Chinese to my students they usually decided they never had to speak another word of English to me again.

Never is a strong word, but lets put it this way: Thai English teachers speak Thai to describe and explain things about English. How well does that seem to work?

Exactly.

Ok, heres a simple hypothetical situation:

Teacher Ling from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology and can speak English well. He uses the fact that he can speak English ( the native tongue of his students) to help explain things, answer any questions...and generally bond with his students.

Teacher Lee from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology but cannot speak a word of English. He repeats himself again and again and again until, perhaps his students have some clue what he is talking about. He cannot joke, bond...even make small talk with his students in their native language....not even to break the ice.

I know which zoology major I would choose to help me improve my Chinese conversation skills..........

Is that unreasonable? If so, how?

[stubuzz]

I think he means teacher Ling is not qualified to teach language.

Hypothetically, If i was looking for a Chinese teacher, i would find one that is qualified to teach me.

Edited July 18, 2014 by stubuzz

[lostinisaan]

If you were a teacher before, so why don't you teach your kids? Oh no, you were just observing a white dancing monkey who was worse in Thai than you are.

I've got 38 grade one kids, who never had English before May this year. If I wouldn't use Thai sometimes, I'd have to look for another position.

I'm not talking about "wrong" Thai now, just explaining words, which saves plenty of time. So you must be fluent in Thai that you could figure out how bad this guy's Thai was.

It's not a pay back thing, because somebody upset you? Sorry, i don't buy your story.Your statement about dancing white monkeys is quite annoying, if you know what i MEAN.

. Unfortunately, you did some a Trinity TESOL course. Congratulations!

P.S. What do the experts say about using F 1 language?

Because I work on Saturdays and want my kids out the house. Plus I haven't really got the patience to teach my own.

I do speak Thai pretty fluently - been learning for over 20 years.

Sorry if the monkey term offended you - most of us had to start somewhere. 38 kids in a class ! Do you think the school actually care about the kids' learning?

I've been there and there are ways to teach them in English only if you properly prepare the lesson. It takes a lot of energy and the language sticks with the kids.

You're the teacher, google what the experts say, or start a new thread.

"Payback". don't know what you mean and nobody upset me at all.

The “dancing monkey term” didn't offend me. You've seen a guy at a language school, who couldn't speak Thai, okay. Then he’s using the wrong teaching method, a word search.

But to come to the conclusion that people shouldn't speak Thai with students, when teaching those English, seems a bit strange.

I’m many hours alone with 38 little kids. Should I tell them in English to go and see a doctor, when they have a headache, toothache, fever etc.??

That leads to a good word. Sick. Explain it in English to kids who haven’t got any knowledge of the English language. Or just give them the Thai word, of course with the right pronunciation.

Yes, 38 kids are way too much, but we’re trying to set up an EP, of course were more parents interested, than actually places available. It’s a small town and more a pilot project.

Some of our kids do have a learning disorder, and we’ll have to let them go to the ordinary program.

We do actually care that they learn as much as possible and we’re using all possible techniques that are possible. My Thai colleague speaks good English and we help each other.

Using Thai is just a bridge to reach the destination where I

want them.

I’d never use a whole sentence, only words, well unfortunately it’s also quite funny to understand and make some jokes in Thai.

My own personal experience is that students respect foreigners more, who speak their language.

Wish all a great weekend.Those who try to speak Thai and those who do.

[janpharma]

During the TEFL course that I took last year we were strongly advised not to speak Thai during class.

[Yooyung]

I think he means teacher Ling is not qualified to teach language.

Hypothetically, If i was looking for a Chinese teacher, i would find one that is qualified to teach me.

You are wrong. Thai teachers dont know how to use English to explain things to students. Surely, with all your experience you should know this, its pretty common knowledge for anyone that has actually taught in Thai schools. There are some good Thai English teachers....guess what???? they use a mix of Thai and English to help them teach.....

I am at a loss to figure out what the point to all this is. If you have worked here in Thailand in Thai govt schools etc you will understand that what may work in Belgiium....probably wont work here. Many of my students cannot even read English proplerly, they are victims of a system that is letting them down. I get thrown into classrooms full of 13/14 year olds that cant really read English, or say who they are and where they were born....and you prattle on about 'immersion'! What planet are you teaching on? I absolutely use Thai to help these kids understand and it works! They can not only pronounce the words/sentences properly, they actually understand what it is they are saying!....by the way there is often about 40 of them.

Another point is that Thai not only cant the run of the mill Thai English teacher speak properly.....the heads of English departments cant either! I literally have to speak Thai to the head of English where I work, if I dont.....god knows what <deleted> ups will happen! Its at all levels. In a perfect world Thai kids would have been taught properly from an early age at least how to read English properly. This is not the case. Its VERY difficult to teach sentence structures and get kids to remember them when they cannot even read them! I am constantly trying to plug up the holes!

I will continue to use Thai as an aid to teaching. I actually enjoy learning Thai, its useful...because I live here and work with.......wait for it.....Thai people! To say that it is somehow disadvantaging my students by me being able to help them by explaining things clearly, making sure they have a point of reference.....I am at a loss ladies and gentlemen.

[dao16]

For a bit of background, I have learned Thai and Laos (Isaan) from self-study and talking with people over the last decade or so. I live most of my life in Thai, except when I have to go give classes. In other words, my Thai/Laos is enough that I know I am not completely butchering things, since people in my out-of-school life understand me.

At the uni, I keep things in English. The guy before me was much better at Thai (not just speaking, but reading, writing...the whole lot) and he would give entire lectures in Thai, which I thought was ridiculous.

Anyway, I will occasionally throw in a Thai word or expression (or, something in Laos for laughs...not because it is a bad language, but because the students get super excited that you know expressions in their local lingo). I never go beyond a word or a short expression/sentence and students will never suspect that I actually know more than that. They think I have just memorized a few expressions.

I know this from first hand experience, as I ran into a student working at a bar/restaurant when I was out with my wife (I work at a uni, so the kids wait tables, etc.). We knew the owner and my student was there while my wife, the owner, another worker and I were all having a conversation in Thai. During a lull in the conversation, she said "oh, you can speak Thai? All the students think you can't speak Thai like this."

So, I think that as long as you keep it minimal, it won't affect the class....since they won't really believe you can actually speak and understand based on a few expressions or words.

[NoshowJones]

I don't have a problem with that. My Thai is significantly bad enough that no one understands what I am saying! If I need a translation of something, which is very, very rare, I will usually have a Thai teacher do the translation.

Occasionally, I have a brighter student who can help out the others.

In general, this is only done when trying to give a complicated set of instructions.

I never used Thai when I was teaching, but If I was giving a command, ie "sit down", "be quiet" or "write this down" I always used Thai. Your second paragraph Scott, I sometimes had as well, and took full advantage.

[andrewrooney]

I speak English the vast majority of the time in my classes. However, sometimes a situation arises that is better handled by speaking Thai. For example, if one of the slower students seems completely lost, sometimes I will take him or her aside to explain something in Thai. I've also found that when discipline issues arise, speaking Thai is extremely valuable. If you need to tell a rowdy student to sit down and stop talking, you can yell at him in English until you're blue in the face and he'll think it's all a big joke. If you tell him the same thing in Thai he'll usually listen right away.

Also, sometimes it can be funny to speak some Thai for a joke here and there, to keep the students entertained. If you can make a quick pun here and there it keeps things lively.

One should definitely use English as much as possible in the classroom, and encourage the students to do the same, but every class is different and I have to agree with the "never say never" sentiment.

[Yooyung]

Ok, heres a simple hypothetical situation:

Teacher Ling from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology and can speak English well. He uses the fact that he can speak English ( the native tongue of his students) to help explain things, answer any questions...and generally bond with his students.

Teacher Lee from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology but cannot speak a word of English. He repeats himself again and again and again until, perhaps his students have some clue what he is talking about. He cannot joke, bond...even make small talk with his students in their native language....not even to break the ice.

I know which zoology major I would choose to help me improve my Chinese conversation skills..........

Is that unreasonable? If so, how?

Please explain why you mention zoology.

Next I will answer your question.

Just want to be sure I am not wasting my time.

Ok, i'll rephrase it for you...

Mr Ling from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, has actively taken part in life in his new country, he has learnt how to communicate in English at an every day level very well. Mr Ling also has a TCFL (Teaching Chinese as a Foriegn Language) certificate that took him 4 weeks to complete. Mr Ling graduated from shanghai University with a Bachelor of Chinese linguistics. Mr Ling often uses his good communication skills in English to help make his lessons run more smoothly. It also helps with communication in all other aspects of his working life, such as booking time for new and less experienced students that cannot yet speak Chinese very well, speaking to parents of children he teaches about their childrens progress......oh my god, do I need to go on?

Mr Lee from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, does not speak English at all, including with his students. Mr Lee has completed a TCFL as well and he also has a Bachelor of Chinese linguistics from Shanghai University. Mr Lee makes sure ALL communication in English between himself , his students AND himself and the parents of his students ,be done through a qualified interpreter.

Ok, I would STILL choose mr Ling.

[nithisa78]

No shortage of dancing monkeys where you park yourself.

[Neeranam]

I think he means teacher Ling is not qualified to teach language.

Hypothetically, If i was looking for a Chinese teacher, i would find one that is qualified to teach me.

You are wrong. Thai teachers dont know how to use English to explain things to students. Surely, with all your experience you should know this, its pretty common knowledge for anyone that has actually taught in Thai schools. There are some good Thai English teachers....guess what???? they use a mix of Thai and English to help them teach.....

I am at a loss to figure out what the point to all this is. If you have worked here in Thailand in Thai govt schools etc you will understand that what may work in Belgiium....probably wont work here. Many of my students cannot even read English proplerly, they are victims of a system that is letting them down. I get thrown into classrooms full of 13/14 year olds that cant really read English, or say who they are and where they were born....and you prattle on about 'immersion'! What planet are you teaching on? I absolutely use Thai to help these kids understand and it works! They can not only pronounce the words/sentences properly, they actually understand what it is they are saying!....by the way there is often about 40 of them.

Another point is that Thai not only cant the run of the mill Thai English teacher speak properly.....the heads of English departments cant either! I literally have to speak Thai to the head of English where I work, if I dont.....god knows what <deleted> ups will happen! Its at all levels. In a perfect world Thai kids would have been taught properly from an early age at least how to read English properly. This is not the case. Its VERY difficult to teach sentence structures and get kids to remember them when they cannot even read them! I am constantly trying to plug up the holes!

I will continue to use Thai as an aid to teaching. I actually enjoy learning Thai, its useful...because I live here and work with.......wait for it.....Thai people! To say that it is somehow disadvantaging my students by me being able to help them by explaining things clearly, making sure they have a point of reference.....I am at a loss ladies and gentlemen.

Nobody is saying there is anything wrong with learning Thai but just don't use it in the classroom. It took my 5 years before I could even master the tones.

One thing I remember the teacher in the OP saying was " mee ngan baan mai"?. I know what he was trying to say but he ended up saying "have you any housework"?

Have you have any qualifications in language acquisition or have you done any real TEFL course? I don't mean the mickey mouse ones that run in Thailand.

Have you googled what the experts say?

Perhaps you speak Thai in class to improve your own language skills?

Oops sorry yooyung, I'm mixing you up with lostinisaan.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

Ok, heres a simple hypothetical situation:

Teacher Ling from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology and can speak English well. He uses the fact that he can speak English ( the native tongue of his students) to help explain things, answer any questions...and generally bond with his students.

Teacher Lee from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, a degree in zoology but cannot speak a word of English. He repeats himself again and again and again until, perhaps his students have some clue what he is talking about. He cannot joke, bond...even make small talk with his students in their native language....not even to break the ice.

I know which zoology major I would choose to help me improve my Chinese conversation skills..........

Is that unreasonable? If so, how?

Please explain why you mention zoology.

Next I will answer your question.

Just want to be sure I am not wasting my time.

Ok, i'll rephrase it for you...

Mr Ling from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, has actively taken part in life in his new country, he has learnt how to communicate in English at an every day level very well. Mr Ling also has a TCFL (Teaching Chinese as a Foriegn Language) certificate that took him 4 weeks to complete. Mr Ling graduated from shanghai University with a Bachelor of Chinese linguistics. Mr Ling often uses his good communication skills in English to help make his lessons run more smoothly. It also helps with communication in all other aspects of his working life, such as booking time for new and less experienced students that cannot yet speak Chinese very well, speaking to parents of children he teaches about their childrens progress......oh my god, do I need to go on?

Mr Lee from China teaches Chinese conversation in Australia. He has 10 years experience, does not speak English at all, including with his students. Mr Lee has completed a TCFL as well and he also has a Bachelor of Chinese linguistics from Shanghai University. Mr Lee makes sure ALL communication in English between himself , his students AND himself and the parents of his students ,be done through a qualified interpreter.

Ok, I would STILL choose mr Ling.

My children go to Chinese classes - everything is in Chinese, even the writing and was from day 1.

Are you familiar with AUA - they teach Thai by only using Thai.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK_Z9dADtRo

However the woman in that video has a terrible attitude toward farang and I would fire her because of this.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Neeranam

[brucetefl]

If I had to choose the best Chinese teacher I would choose the best teacher. That has nothing to do with their ability to speak speak English.

I studied Spanish for 3 years in high school. We mainly spoke English with the teacher explaining the Spanish. I remember almost none of it. Como se yamo? May yamo Bruce. Thats pretty much it.

I "studied" Cantonese in Hong Kong basically by speaking to people on the streets for 18 months. I am still basically fluent.

There is not some law that says you cannot use L1 in the classroom. But any teacher that spends more than a few moments of the class speaking L1 is fooling themselves into thinking its helpful.

I know some Thai teachers what translate most of what they say in English into Thai.

Do you think the students ever struggle to understand? Of course not. They just wait for the translation.

Edited July 18, 2014 by brucetefl

[Neeranam]

If I had to choose the best Chinese teacher I would choose the best teacher. That has nothing to do with their ability to speak speak English.

I studied Spanish for 3 years in high school. We mainly spoke English with the teacher explaining things in Thai. I remember almost none of it. Como se yamo? May yamo Bruce. Thats pretty much it.

I "studied" Cantonese in Hong Kong basically by speaking to people on the streets. I am still basically fluent.

There is not some law that says you cannot use L1 in the classroom. But any teacher that spends more than a few moments of the class speaking L1 is fooling themselves into thinking its helpful.

I know some Thai teachers what translate most of what they say in English into Thai.

Do you think the students ever struggle to understand? Of course not. They just wait for the translation.

I agree. Look at how native speakers learn their language.