California death penalty delays 'violate Constitution'

[webfact]

California death penalty delays 'violate Constitution'

(BBC) California's death penalty has been ruled unconstitutional and described as "dysfunctional" by a federal judge.

It follows a similar ruling in Northern California that has kept the death penalty on hold since 2005.

Death sentences in California are in reality "life in prison, with the remote possibility of death", said US District Judge Cormac Carney.

The long delays and uncertainty violate the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment, he concluded.

In making his ruling, Mr Carney annulled the death sentence of Ernest Dewayne Jones, who was condemned to death nearly two decades ago for the rape and murder of a 50-year-old accountant.

Mr Carney said that more than 900 people had been sentenced to death in the state since 1978 but that only 13 had been executed.

"Inordinate and unpredictable delay has resulted in a death penalty system in which very few of the hundreds of individuals sentenced to death have been, or even will be, executed by the State," he wrote in his ruling.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28338965

-- BBC 2014-07-17

[lostsoul49]

Yup... Has to be nerve racking.... will they?.... won't they????

[fresnoboy]

Maybe it would be better if they did it the Chinese way ?

Guilty ! Shot the next day.

[klauskunkel]

It's "deadlocked" because it's big business. Lawyers, NGOs, religious groups, activists, the media, prisons, even Hollywood - they all profit from this status quo, therefore it won't change.

[ezzra]

Those condemned to death die a thousand deaths, over and over again, every morning they wake

up and look around and realize where they are and what awaits them.....

[Ulysses G.]

Those condemned to death die a thousand deaths, over and over again, every morning they wake

up and look around and realize where they are and what awaits them.....

Yes, but lets not forget that many of them deserve it.

[hugh2121]

This puzzles me but then it is America. Why puzzled? I thought the American constitution applied to the whole of the USA. So why is it only illegal in California? Either it violates the constitution nationwide or it does not violate it at all. I know different states have different laws but do they have different constitutions? What am I missing here? If people have been killed illegally, surely it was premeditated murder. I'm not making a judgement on capital punishment although I have my own views, only querying what the hell is going on this crazy country.

[kamahele]

This puzzles me but then it is America. Why puzzled? I thought the American constitution applied to the whole of the USA. So why is it only illegal in California? Either it violates the constitution nationwide or it does not violate it at all. I know different states have different laws but do they have different constitutions? What am I missing here? If people have been killed illegally, surely it was premeditated murder. I'm not making a judgement on capital punishment although I have my own views, only querying what the hell is going on this crazy country.

This is a bit of a tricky question to answer. The American constitution does apply to the whole of America, however not all states have the death penalty and only this state was sued in this particular court.This may be appealed up to the conservative Supreme Court which no doubt would find that it is legal despite the ban on cruel and unusual punishment in the constitution. Just the 300 million dollars per each execution would make me think it is a boondoggle.

[wolf5370]

Maybe it would be better if they did it the Chinese way ?

Guilty ! Shot the next day.

When the UK had the penalty it had to be carried out in 7 days (or 8 if convicted on a Monday - so the hangman didn't have to travel on a Sunday, the Sabbath, in order to meet it). Seven days to appeal. Appeals were rare of course - and sometimes applied posthumously. Keeping someone on death row for years, let alone decades, is immoral - it is giving them two sentences for one crime, imprisonment and death.

[Trouble]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

This puzzles me but then it is America. Why puzzled? I thought the American constitution applied to the whole of the USA. So why is it only illegal in California? Either it violates the constitution nationwide or it does not violate it at all. I know different states have different laws but do they have different constitutions? What am I missing here? If people have been killed illegally, surely it was premeditated murder. I'm not making a judgement on capital punishment although I have my own views, only querying what the hell is going on this crazy country.

This is a bit of a tricky question to answer. The American constitution does apply to the whole of America, however not all states have the death penalty and only this state was sued in this particular court.This may be appealed up to the conservative Supreme Court which no doubt would find that it is legal despite the ban on cruel and unusual punishment in the constitution. Just the 300 million dollars per each execution would make me think it is a boondoggle.

Please provide a reference for your 300 million dollars cost per person executed.

[rotary]

They need to start 24 hour express service and move on with the disposal of the killers.

[siampolee]

California death penalty delays 'violate Constitution'

California murder victims say in a seance that their murder violated their human rights constitution.

​Yet again it appears that the victim becomes the criminal and the criminal the victim.

[Credo]

A criminal can be a victim and a victim can also be a criminal. They are not mutually exclusive.

[Suradit69]

This puzzles me but then it is America. Why puzzled? I thought the American constitution applied to the whole of the USA. So why is it only illegal in California? Either it violates the constitution nationwide or it does not violate it at all. I know different states have different laws but do they have different constitutions? What am I missing here? If people have been killed illegally, surely it was premeditated murder. I'm not making a judgement on capital punishment although I have my own views, only querying what the hell is going on this crazy country.

"This puzzles me but then it is America. Why puzzled? I thought the American constitution applied to the whole of the USA."

It does apply to the whole of the US, but each case is tried separately and then it can be used as a reference in future cases.

There is meant to be a separation of powers that applies to states and to the Federal government, although over the years the Federal government has moved into areas that it originally had no legal authority over ... such as education, which was originally the sole responsibility of state governments ... until the Federal government started funding different programs.

When President Kennedy was killed, the case against his alleged killer would have been tried in Texas where it happened. While the Federal government may sometimes step in to remedy denial of civil rights issues based on the US constitution when individuals have been murdered, murder is a violation of state law, not Federal. But laws, their enforcement and court decisions at the state level must not violate US Constitutional law.

Usually the Supreme Court makes decisions about specific cases, in this case one that was specific to a California case, but then state and federal courts take that ruling into consideration in any future cases that have similar attributes.

Think of when you were a kid. If you wanted to do something, you might ask your father. Whatever your father said was the law. Unless your mother got wind of it. Usually your father would decide things in a way that wouldn't upset your mother or that she might not notice and that was the end of it. But if one of your siblings appealed to your mother, whatever she said would either confirm or undo what your father said. In future, you, your father and your brothers and sisters would keep that ruling in mind if they were asked about similar things and they would decide accordingly.

Your father ( the state) could make certain, generally trivial, decisions, but they could be either quashed or supported by your mother (the federal government). In future, your mother's decision would be often cited when mooted by lesser persons who thought those references would help their cause or in a (usually vain) attempt to garner sympathy.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Suradit69

[sae57]

This puzzles me but then it is America. Why puzzled? I thought the American constitution applied to the whole of the USA. So why is it only illegal in California? Either it violates the constitution nationwide or it does not violate it at all. I know different states have different laws but do they have different constitutions? What am I missing here? If people have been killed illegally, surely it was premeditated murder. I'm not making a judgement on capital punishment although I have my own views, only querying what the hell is going on this crazy country.

Yes, each state has its own constitution, as well as legislature & elected governor (remember "state" originally means "nation") and court system. The US constitution governs the procedures of national (including between the states) and international concern. The state constitutions cover procedures that are internal to the individual state. In cases of conflict, the national C trumps the state C; but the national is not supposed to encroach on state concerns. Where the line is drawn between the two realms of concern is in constant tension and negotiation--quite interesting actually. The national C also defines certain human rights, considered of universal concern and which therefore trump state constitutions and laws. The issue here is that while California has the death penalty for certain crimes, the national C protects individuals against "cruel and unusual punishment" as a human right. The federal courts have declined to rule that the death penalty is cruel and unusual (some states have it, some don't), but have ruled that certain ways of implementing it is c&u. In this case, long and uncertain delays.

[boomerangutang]

In order to sentenced to death, you've got to be found guilty of doing some dastardly act.

It's a drag being on 'death row' but think about what victims suffered, most of whom were summarily snuffed out, with no trial or jury.

Death row is no picnic in the park, but a whole heck of lot better conditions than most prisoners in other countries, who might be in awful prison for speaking out against a government or caught with a few microscopic specks of a recreational drug that's not alcohol. In California, they've got clean beds, Cable TV, 3 large meals/day, showers.

In a typical women's prison in Russia, for example, all the women have access to running water, one half hour per week. There's one faucet for 160 women, so they fight over who can get a few drops to try and clean up with.

[Lakegeneve]

"In order to sentenced to death, you've got to be found guilty of doing some dastardly act."

Convicted for a serious offence and then sentenced to death, yes of course.

However, given the number of people on death row in the US who have been subsequently found to be innocent in recent years based on exculpatory evidence , I am not sure that one can have complete confidence that all those on death row deserve to be there.

(See the Illinois example where 20 people on death row were subsequently found to be innocent and 167 on death row were commuted to life sentences; "halted executions in 2000 after revelations that 20 death-row convicts were not guilty of the crimes that put them there. "

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/09/illinois.death.penalty/).

Some will say that the criminal justice can never be perfect, that is of course true. That is one reason why the appeals and review process in the criminal justice system is so important. However, when the state implements the ultimate punishment what is the acceptable error rate? 3%, 5%, 10% or 20%? Perhaps, that is one reason why there has been no executions in California since 2006, many policy makers recognise the flaws in the system.

Though on a completely separate issue, the courts decision here seems to be consistent with the US Supreme Court 2011 judgement instructing California to relieve overcrowding in the prisons and to get to down a 137% figure from the then near 165% figure. (The Gov has had to ask for extra time to achieve this) The basis of that decision was also that the overcrowding was a breach of the cruel and unusual punishment Constitutional provision.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/the-supreme-court-declares-californias-prisons-overcrowded/239313/

Some pics of overcrowding, http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-courts-prisons13-pictures-photogallery.html

Previous reports indicate that death row was in a poor state, "Corrections officials insist the prison is so dilapidated and overcrowded that a new Death Row must be built if California is going to continue holding condemned inmates at San Quentin."

(2005 http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/INSIDE-DEATH-ROW-At-San-Quentin-647-condemned-2594023.php .)

These two more recent reports by the same reporter from last year (570 on death row at that time) provide a good insight into more recent conditions. Both have an embedded audio report;

http://www.lifeofthelaw.org/reporter-on-death-row/

http://kalw.org/post/walking-death-row-san-quentin-state-prison

Pics, http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTR34TTV#a=2

You can judge for yourself what the conditions are like and if prisoners have what you allege.

Conditions should be better in the US than Russia but frankly I'm not sure why you compare a US prison with another non western country with a poor human rights record? Would you compare civil rights for the average citizen in the US to Russia? Is it not better to compare like for like, ie. another western country? However, which western democracy has capital punishment apart from Japan?

Here are some other articles on overcrowding in California and the US Supreme Courts decision;

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21577411-california-hasnt-emptied-its-prisons-enough-it-trying-magic-number http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/07/convicting-california

The criminal justice system in California is a mess. Keeping people on death row for 20 or 30 or 40 years is obviously futile and undermines one of the aims of capital punishment (criminologist reports show that in most US death penalty states, murder rates are usually higher than non death penalty. Facts that undermine capital punishment acting as a deterrent).

The current state of the dysfunctional prison system in California seems only to have maximised creating a more stressed and brutal environment for prisoners and prison staff alike (too few prison staff). There will be more of these types of court cases in the future (not in Russia though!).

[capcc76]

Haha, a District Judge ruling means very little here. Seen it before from trial level judges that have an aversion to the death penalty. Will be quickly reversed by the 9th Curcuit. No real news here.

The problem with Death eligible cases being prosecuted and moving through the system during the last 20 years is cost on burden in the legal system, not accuracy or validity of conviction and sentence. I have also seen older cases (70s and 80s) that were suspect in mid 90s when I clerked for a State Supreme Court Justice, not in the new

Lol, nice jail house lawyer like legal analysis on here though. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[capcc76]

In order to sentenced to death, you've got to be found guilty of doing some dastardly act.

It's a drag being on 'death row' but think about what victims suffered, most of whom were summarily snuffed out, with no trial or jury.

Death row is no picnic in the park, but a whole heck of lot better conditions than most prisoners in other countries, who might be in awful prison for speaking out against a government or caught with a few microscopic specks of a recreational drug that's not alcohol. In California, they've got clean beds, Cable TV, 3 large meals/day, showers.

In a typical women's prison in Russia, for example, all the women have access to running water, one half hour per week. There's one faucet for 160 women, so they fight over who can get a few drops to try and clean up with.

I have toured a death row, went into a cell and actually sat in the electric. Much, much nicer than general population or normal max security prisons.

[boomerangutang]

....went into a cell and actually sat in the electric.

what does that mean? ...sat in the electric chair? Trying to be funny, perchance?

[johna]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

This puzzles me but then it is America. Why puzzled? I thought the American constitution applied to the whole of the USA. So why is it only illegal in California? Either it violates the constitution nationwide or it does not violate it at all. I know different states have different laws but do they have different constitutions? What am I missing here? If people have been killed illegally, surely it was premeditated murder. I'm not making a judgement on capital punishment although I have my own views, only querying what the hell is going on this crazy country.

This is a bit of a tricky question to answer. The American constitution does apply to the whole of America, however not all states have the death penalty and only this state was sued in this particular court.This may be appealed up to the conservative Supreme Court which no doubt would find that it is legal despite the ban on cruel and unusual punishment in the constitution. Just the 300 million dollars per each execution would make me think it is a boondoggle.

Please provide a reference for your 300 million dollars cost per person executed.

TYT Cenk Uyger says every execution in the State of California costs the tax payer 308 million dollars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yIZ0JU6T1c

[chuckd]

There are various reasons for this inflated figure.

The figure actually comes from total costs to run the death row facility for a total of 714 death row convicted felons over the past three decades.

State and federal expenditures to run the facility have been a total of $4 Billion and only 13 convicted murderers have been executed during that same three decades. The low number of executions skews the average somewhat.

Considering the average appeals process in California takes over 25 years, it is little wonder California costs are so high.

This decision was made by a Federal District Judge and will likely now go to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals which covers California.

The 9th Circuit Court will make their decision and it will go to the Supreme Court where their decision will possibly be overturned.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/20/california-death-penalty-execution-costs

[capcc76]

....went into a cell and actually sat in the electric.

what does that mean? ...sat in the electric chair? Trying to be funny, perchance?

No, I actually sat in the electric chair that had been in use for a long time.

[submaniac]

California should adopt old school Thai execution style. Tying up hands with an orchid in a wai position...and then shooting.