Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates unaware of visa crackdown

[NoBrains]

The European embassey's and consulate they give a tourist a tourist visa but it will be only valid 90 days after they left left Europe......

They check there VIS system...........

The professional well organized Thai embassey's and consulates ofcourse do the same................

Edited July 18, 2014 by NoBrains

[billmunday10]

Personally I think nothing will change even after the deadline

This was confirmed when yesterday I got my girlfriend to call head of immigration in ranong as my visa will be expired at the end of the month.

He explained that you are allowed 3 back to back visas but are usually allowed more if you explain your case to the official at the border

What visas would that be? Visa are not done at border crossings or do you mean getting a visa exempt entry.

You need to read the reports about the crossings in Ranong they are not letting anybody across that has one exempt entry before. Even some with valid visas have been turned away.

I did mean visa exempt entry sorry

I have read the reports thats why I called before hand

I am driving there tomorrow

As this will be my 4th back to back he said go to immigration office explain situation and he said It should be ok as I am flying back to u.k in 3 weeks and this will be the last one

[pizzachang]

Not surprising at all. Immigration is part of one ministry and the embassies and consulates another.

Also I have seen nothing in writing issued by immigration about turning people back with tourist visas. Why should the Ministry of Foreign Affairs do anything without something official being released.

The only thing somewhat official I have seen only refers to visa exempt entries.

Logically, the way to proceed on 'Tourist Visas' of any kind, would be to first inform all Embassies and Consulates to issue only those categories which will be approved upon arrival. This current situation will only damage Thailand's reputation as a tourist destination. If "back to back" visa are not wanted then clearly inform and state such. Being refused entry and subsequent complaints to tourist boards, Chamber of Commerce, media can only be perceived as negative - unless clear, upfront information is given to travelers. Visitors that want to stay longer than 30 or 60 days COULD be offered a new category of visa...such as '6 month Vacation/Cultural Visa' or '90 Day Holiday Visa'. I think people respond better to clear options, than to a system of possible expulsion, after spending the time, money and effort to enjoy Thailand.

[rebelplatoon]

It's a mess.

Edited July 18, 2014 by rebelplatoon

[jeanno]

I went to immigration office in bangkok and in french ambassy to ask because i have a TV triple entries. I used one and a 30 days extension. They both told me than i will get no problem if i do a run boarder. A thai woman working for french ambassy also told me she was thinking that it s not normal they give tourism visa in consulat and refuse people at the boarder.

Even if the IO has the right to refuse u the entrance to the country it s a shame if they do it after looking your passport 30 secondes. Normally they ll be supposed to take you in an office to make an interview.

I ll be going to the boarder end of month and see what happen.

[JenksB]

And once again..

What defines a tourist ??

What is the difference between a temporary resident and a tourist ??

How many is too many.. Too long.. Too much..

All vague unclear and undefined.. Once again Thailand simply cannot write clear and firm rules or guidelines.

“A visa is not a guarantee that you can enter the country, that decision is made by the immigration officer at border check-point. It’s the same with every country around the world.". That's an excuse and not the answer. Most countries also have better coordination between their border check-points and embassies/consulates.

That's pretty much what I was going to say LivinLOS. Thailand needs to do a much better job of writing clear guidelines that both the immigration border police can follow as well as the Thai consulates and embassies so people are not wasting their time and money traveling to Thailand only to be turned back. This is nothing, but a chaotic mess with the border police and consulates not being on the same page.

You obviously haven't been on the receiving end of a bad tempered arrogant UK immigration officer, my wife, then girlfriend, had all the correct documents including a full tourist visa for 6 months and despite this was interrogated for 30 mins at the Immigration control post at Heathrow, she was in tears but although I was twenty feet away I wasn't allowed to approach despite him knowing I was there, eventually another immigration officer came over to see what the problem was, called his supervisor and me over, this was apparently because she couldn't write down My home address in English to his satisfaction (it was on the immigration form or landing card) when I asked if there was a requirement to be able to write in English for a tourist visa I was told to keep quiet as it was nothing to do with me! we both had return tickets to Thailand & the purpose of the visit was to visit my family

[wilcopops]

And once again..

What defines a tourist ??

What is the difference between a temporary resident and a tourist ??

How many is too many.. Too long.. Too much..

All vague unclear and undefined.. Once again Thailand simply cannot write clear and firm rules or guidelines.

“A visa is not a guarantee that you can enter the country, that decision is made by the immigration officer at border check-point. It’s the same with every country around the world.". That's an excuse and not the answer. Most countries also have better coordination between their border check-points and embassies/consulates.

That's pretty much what I was going to say LivinLOS. Thailand needs to do a much better job of writing clear guidelines that both the immigration border police can follow as well as the Thai consulates and embassies so people are not wasting their time and money traveling to Thailand only to be turned back. This is nothing, but a chaotic mess with the border police and consulates not being on the same page.

You obviously haven't been on the receiving end of a bad tempered arrogant UK immigration officer, my wife, then girlfriend, had all the correct documents including a full tourist visa for 6 months and despite this was interrogated for 30 mins at the Immigration control post at Heathrow, she was in tears but although I was twenty feet away I wasn't allowed to approach despite him knowing I was there, eventually another immigration officer came over to see what the problem was, called his supervisor and me over, this was apparently because she couldn't write down My home address in English to his satisfaction (it was on the immigration form or landing card) when I asked if there was a requirement to be able to write in English for a tourist visa I was told to keep quiet as it was nothing to do with me! we both had return tickets to Thailand & the purpose of the visit was to visit my family

...but the visa was for 6 months? and what where the back to back restrictions?

[Suradit69]

And once again..

What defines a tourist ??

What is the difference between a temporary resident and a tourist ??

How many is too many.. Too long.. Too much..

All vague unclear and undefined.. Once again Thailand simply cannot write clear and firm rules or guidelines.

"Once again Thailand simply cannot write clear and firm rules or guidelines."

The fact that so many people want to know exact numbers implies that many people are trying to figure out, once again, how to game the system. And no matter how explicit and exact they are, so many will start wanting them to bend the rules for their "special case."

It's like a bunch of little kids whining because the teacher is unfair ... which only means they didn't get what they wanted.

And once again some people seem to think that some problems exist solely in Thailand,

On the one hand people on Thai Visa want exemptions and exceptions for teachers, for off-shore workers, for independently wealthy lay-abouts, for someone who fathered a child and showed no interest in it until he realized he might get a visa or extensions because of it, and so on, but at the same time they want explicit, unbending, no-exceptions-allowed rules. Rigid but bendable.

Immigrations officers are allowed discretion in assessing individual cases based on the rules that have existed all along. When you apply for a visa you sign stating that you are coming here as a tourist or whatever. If you have a couple of years' worth of back to back visa exempt entries or tourist visas, you're not a tourist. In some less obvious cases, the immigrations officer will use his/her discretion whether that makes you happy or not.

If you live out of a suitcase, stay in hotels for a few weeks, watch elephants play football, and then you go back home you're probably a tourist. If you have a wife and children, your own home or condo with closets overflowing, a bank account and spent 364 days a year in Thailand, you're not a tourist.

Everything in between is going to be a judgment call and no matter how it goes the high-pitched whining on Thai Visa will continue to shatter glass.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Suradit69

[flyingdoc]

Surely there must be some better way of informing visitors to Thailand about Visas rather than just scaremongering, innuendo and official and unofficial threats of a crackdown? Am I going to be refused entry at Swampy in a few days time just because I have a lot of stamps in my passport, and happen to love Thailand as a holiday destination, albeit frequently? I still work in Medical Research in the U.K. but am of retirement age, but do not want a Retirement or Non 0 Visa, but just the ability to visit Thailand when I choose because I love it as a country and have many friends there.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Legitimate tourists spend a lot of money and make a lot of plans relating to their international travel and vacations.

It's not unreasonable to expect that the country you're visiting have some semblance of clarity about what is required, and what is accepted or not, for incoming visitors. Likewise, there ought to be some correlation between the policy used by Consulates in granting or not granting visas and the policy used by Immigration Officers upon arrival.

Back when I was a tourist, I'd sometimes visit Thailand four times in a year, always on visa exempt 30-day entries and always for not more than a couple weeks at a time. I never once applied for a tourist visa because I had no reason or need to. But right now, if I were in the same situation getting ready to travel from my home country, I'm not sure I'd know what I ought to do and what to expect upon arrival in Thailand.

The Thai authorities need to settle on their policy as relates to visa exempt entries and tourist visas, particularly in regard to repeat uses of them, clearly state the policy to the public, and go about their business. How hard should that be?

[ubonjoe]

Surely there must be some better way of informing visitors to Thailand about Visas rather than just scaremongering, innuendo and official and unofficial threats of a crackdown? Am I going to be refused entry at Swampy in a few days time just because I have a lot of stamps in my passport, and happen to love Thailand as a holiday destination, albeit frequently? I still work in Medical Research in the U.K. but am of retirement age, but do not want a Retirement or Non 0 Visa, but just the ability to visit Thailand when I choose because I love it as a country and have many friends there.

The intent of the reported changes is to stop people that are living here on exempt entries. The phrase visa runners and out/in has been used in official news releases.

If you are just making occasional trips here you will not have a problem entering.

.

[Time Traveller]

As long as they make money from issuing visas, they'll kept selling them no matter the buyer will be admitted or not.. Caveat emptor

[Deacon Bell]

And almost one more month of all this stuff until the deadline comes into affect.

[Pattaya Pat]

Well they are fully aware now after Thai Visa called them up to spill the beans. Good work guys.

[Pattaya Pat]

Personally I think nothing will change even after the deadline

This was confirmed when yesterday I got my girlfriend to call head of immigration in ranong as my visa will be expired at the end of the month.

He explained that you are allowed 3 back to back visas but are usually allowed more if you explain your case to the official at the border

Mmmm, I really woulndn't be at all surprised if you are correct, it certainly seems as if they are going to be 'stricter' but I wouldn't be surprised if it is nowhere near as bad as some think it will be. I just cannot imagine a situation where hundreds if not thousands of people are being turned away at borders and airports, it really would be totally unprecendented and a complete and utter car crash. I just can't see it myself. Time will tell.

[Ayutthaya69]

so better move to the Philippines you can stay for 16 months whit a tourist Visa after 16 months you have to go out outside the country and coming back and start again no need to do a Border run paid the extension at the immigration for me its not a problem Thailand i have NON-O but if i have some problem the Philippines its a good option Cebu nice place to live

[Pattaya Pat]

so better move to the Philippines you can stay for 16 months whit a tourist Visa after 16 months you have to go out outside the country and coming back and start again no need to do a Border run paid the extension at the immigration for me its not a problem Thailand i have NON-O but if i have some problem the Philippines its a good option Cebu nice place to live

Yep! If Thailand don't want our money we will go and spend it elsewhere. I appreciate some here have commitments like family etc, but would it really be the end of the world if you can't live in Thailand? Plenty of other good places to live too.

[nick02]

this is crazy , consulat give tourist visa , take money but officer imigration can denied entry in the country ....

money from visa can t refund too. paie but not sure can use ..this is no corect ...

[stailmanki]

What to do? - booked to fly in on the 23rd passport full of visa exempt/on arrivals - stayed more than 90 days already this year - on rotaion oil field worker but on call and had a lot of R&R in Thailand. Never overstayed or had back to back visas or done visa runs as such , sometimes only out of the country for a few weeks ???

Should I fly Cambodia & get a tourist visa? My flights are through Singapore , maybe I should stay there and get a visa.(what kind?)

Not married but rent shop house - I'll miss my girlfriend if I have to take R&R in another country

[lostmebike]

And almost one more month of all this stuff until the deadline comes into affect.

So look forward to thread upon thread, page upon page of 'this stuff' then

The panicking 'what ifs' and 'what about' will be here for us all to ponder over for the next few weeks, yippee!

[Pattaya Pat]

What to do? - booked to fly in on the 23rd passport full of visa exempt/on arrivals - stayed more than 90 days already this year - on rotaion oil field worker but on call and had a lot of R&R in Thailand. Never overstayed or had back to back visas or done visa runs as such , sometimes only out of the country for a few weeks ???

Should I fly Cambodia & get a tourist visa? My flights are through Singapore , maybe I should stay there and get a visa.(what kind?)

Not married but rent shop house - I'll miss my girlfriend if I have to take R&R in another country

You fall directly into the grey/vague that nobody seems quite clear on. My gut feeling is you will be ok but may get asked a few questions etc. Remember that you have done nothing wrong and are a genuine visitor in Thailand, don't forget that, so don't feel like you are some kind of criminal, and if you do get stopped whilst you should show the officer respect don't think of the guy as some kind of God, 'coz he aint. Fly in, going to another country to get a tourist visa should just be your plan B.

[Maggusoil]

And once again..

What defines a tourist ??

What is the difference between a temporary resident and a tourist ??

How many is too many.. Too long.. Too much..

All vague unclear and undefined.. Once again Thailand simply cannot write clear and firm rules or guidelines.

It seems up to the office on duty. One thing does seem to be clear. One doubts a visa "run" as such would be taking place as far away as Australia, or anywhere in Europe or America. A 'run' implies a border crossing to extend a visa, or get a back to back visa. That would normally take place at a border crossing.

A lot of this traffic would also include people from neighboring countries coming to work, or 'tourists' who are not tourists, or as you say, the long stay tourist. In Australia a 3 month double entry tourist visa is $90 and a 30 day extension can be granted at the discretion of the Immigration officer in BAngkok.

I thought I was able to get a 6 month visa but cannot check this today.

Above 3 months one presumes Thai Immigration's idea of a tourist is someone on a holiday. 3 months probably seems like long enough for a holiday. Longer than this there are all sorts of other visas for the more serious. Like working, wife, business, study, Volunteers, NGO etc.

It seems the only gap in the availability enjoyed elsewhere is permanent residency. That would solve the problems of the long stayers.

[slipperylobster]

A Consul-General in Australia confirmed that he has also not received any information from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding the crackdown.

I find this comment hard to believe after recently visiting a consulate. They seemed pretty aware of the current crack down..

Funny thing is, how would they not know...

I thought all informed people read Thai Visa.

If the embassies are looking for firsthand updates, they can get them here !

Anyways, I thought the internet was being used to track down crooks, terrorists and tax evaders...not to mention deadbeat dads, money launders and drug dealers.

Send them our link.

[Jonmarleesco]

'... immigration officials saying that “you are a tourist for 30 days, not more.”' So Thais can visit, for example, the UK as a tourist, staying for several weeks on the standard visa, yet Thailand, more reliant on tourism than the UK, now considers more than 30 days to be non-tourist. It might be prudent for the Thai foreign ministry to make that clear to the embassies of all Thailand's main tourist producing countries.

[elzach]

I can't think of any other country where a tourist visa does not practically guarantee entry into the country. Unless you are a criminal and the immigration office somehow detects this. That' s the only exception.

Other than that, welcome to Thailand (hopefully).

PS. To those that might be affected, take your money elsewhere. Thais understand only one thing: Baht.

Edited July 18, 2014 by elzach

[Pattaya Pat]

I can't think of any other country where a tourist visa does not practically guarantee entry into the country. Unless you are a criminal and the immigration office somehow detects this. That' s the only exception.

Other than that, welcome to Thailand (hopefully).

PS. To those that might be affected, take your money elsewhere. Thais understand only one thing: Baht.

Agreed. It's about time some on here started to grow a pair.

[KarenBravo]

Oh, the wailing, gnashing of teeth and beating of breast.

The heaping of ashes on head,

All because the visa run is dead.

Edited July 18, 2014 by KarenBravo

[slipperylobster]

I can't think of any other country where a tourist visa does not practically guarantee entry into the country. Unless you are a criminal and the immigration office somehow detects this. That' s the only exception.

Other than that, welcome to Thailand (hopefully).

PS. To those that might be affected, take your money elsewhere. Thais understand only one thing: Baht.

Agreed to some extent. There must be some benefit to empowering Immigration at the borders...as they may receive information that was not available at the time the visa was issued. For instance, a visa to thailand could get approved at the consulate, but Thailand wants to cover the time between when it was issued and when it is getting used. A crime/legal issue might have developed during that lag.

[Sortapundit]

'... immigration officials saying that “you are a tourist for 30 days, not more.”' .... It might be prudent for the Thai foreign ministry to make that clear to the embassies of all Thailand's main tourist producing countries.

Seems like that would be a good idea. It would also be prudent to issue immigration officers working at the borders with clear and well-defined guidelines, even if those guidelines aren't released to the public.

Time and again people have pointed out the fact that a visa doesn't guarantee entry and the final decision will always be made at the border, but while this is the law as written it isn't the case in reality at pretty much any international border around the world. The reason immigration officers are there at all is to act as a final safeguard against fraudulent visas, tampered passports and the like - in essence, to prevent people from entering the country illegally. Only in exceptional circumstances is it their job to deny entry to a visitor with a valid visa, and at almost no other border is it the job of the IO to act as a first line of defence. Policing a border in no-man's-land is enormously impractical, and even more so at the border of a country that receives so many visitors.

So, yeah. If a country wants to prevent unwanted visitors their first act should be to stop issuing visas to them.

[B1ade]

But right now, if I were in the same situation getting ready to travel from my home country, I'm not sure I'd know what I ought to do and what to expect upon arrival in Thailand.

The Thai authorities need to settle on their policy as relates to visa exempt entries and tourist visas, particularly in regard to repeat uses of them, clearly state the policy to the public, and go about their business. How hard should that be?

This is exactly what is needed, some clearly defined guidelines and for every immigration desk to adhere to the same guidelines whether it is land, sea or air so everyone can relax or adjust their visa plans accordingly. Conflicting reports from different regions is creating all the confusion. Hopefully the dust will settle after the 12th August and all will become clear.