Rebels 'destroying evidence'

[Lite Beer]

Rebels 'destroying evidence'


Ukrainian rescue workers walk past an armed pro-Russia militant as they carry the body of a victim on a stretcher at the site of the Malaysia Airlines plane crash in Grabove, in rebel-held east Ukraine yesterday.

KIEV: -- Ukraine says separatist group trying to move remnants of jet debris to Russia

The Ukrainian government has claimed that "Russian-led terrorists" are destroying evidence at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

The government said in a statement that "the terrorists" had taken 38 bodies from the crash site to a morgue in the city of Donetsk, "where the 'experts' with Russian accents claimed they intend to perform autopsies".

It said separatist groups were trying to move remnants of the aircraft to Russia. "We urge the international community to oblige Russia to withdraw its terrorists from Ukraine and to allow the Ukrainian and international experts to hold a comprehensive investigation."

The Ukrainian government also accused pro-Russian separatists of hindering investigation into the passenger plane's downing in the east of the country.

Deputy Prime Minister Vladimir Groisman said experts from Kiev would only be allowed to stay at the crash site for 30 minutes under the supervision of armed rebels. He called on the separatists to give an international commission free access to the site, where the United States says flight MH17 was shot down by a surface-to-air missile, killing all 298 passengers and crew on board.

Monitors from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), who are not forensic experts, reached the crash site near the Ukraine-Russian border late on Friday but were denied full access to the debris field by the rebels who control the area, chairman Thomas Greminger said.

Members of Ukraine's Emergency Situations Service had also reached the scene but rebels were complicating their recovery efforts, said Serhiy Taruta, the Kiev-appointed governor of the Donetsk region.Ukraine's intelligence chief, Valentin Nalivaichenko, said the insurgents had formed a "security zone" around the wreck, adding that "we hope the terrorists disappear and allow us to work".

Separatist leader Andrei Purgin rejected the allegations and said the "people’s militia" were in the area to ensure an "objective investigation".

Emergency services said early yesterday that 186 bodies were recovered. The search for the other victims' remains was complicated by the fact that the wreckage was scattered over 25 square kilometres. About 170 emergency workers were near the site, including divers who were to search a nearby lake, a spokesman said. All the bodies were to be taken to a laboratory in Kharkiv, more than 250 kilometres north of the crash site far from rebel-held territory.

The Interior Ministry said hundreds of rooms have been reserved at a hotel in Kharkiv for relatives of the victims, and that translators and psychologists were also on hand.

US President Barack Obama has called the deaths of all 298 people onboard "an outrage of unspeakable proportions", joining the chorus of world leaders calling for an immediate investigation into the mid-flight disaster that struck the Boeing 777-200 as it flew on Thursday from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

Obama called on Russia, pro-Russian separatists and Ukraine to adhere to an immediate ceasefire to allow an investigation. "We know that these separatists have received a steady flow of support from Russia," he said. "This includes arms and training, it includes heavy weapons, and it includes anti-aircraft weapons."

The US ambassador to the United Nations told an emergency UN Security Council meeting that there was evidence the Moscow-backed rebels used an SA-11 surface-to-air missile to down the plane from about 10,000 metres.

"It is unlikely that the separatists could effectively operate the system without assistance from knowledgeable personnel," Samantha Power said. "Thus we cannot rule out technical assistance from Russian personnel in operating the systems."

In an overnight call between Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the two leaders "emphasised that Russia bears a clear responsibility to deny separatists in eastern Ukraine continued access to heavy weapons and other support from inside Russia," the White House said.

A purported recording of a militant leader boasting about the downed aircraft to a Russian military intelligence officer proved thatMoscow and the separatists were culpable, Poroshenko said. The unverified phone call was posted on YouTube by Ukraine's security service, which said the message was intercepted.

"Undoubtedly, the state on whose territory this happened is responsible for this terrible tragedy," Putin told a Kremlin meeting.

Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak has vowed that "no stone will be left unturned" in the investigation. Malaysia has sent a 62-member team to help in the retrieval of bodies and plane wreckage.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Rebels-destroying-evidence-30238969.html

-- The Nation 2014-07-20

[chooka]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

[lostsoul49]

You have to understand that the Ukrainian officials are just as capable of tampering with evidence and suspicion and mistrust exists on both sides of the fence.

You also need to remember that this Ukrainian neo nazi fascist government are doing everything in their power to ignite a world war against Russia.

I do NOT trust that man, and I think this Ukraine administration who started all this by toppling an elected government because they were more pro-Russia than they were pro-EU, and who have for years under Svoboda Party creed promised to eradicate all Russians and Jews from Ukraine.

These are very dangerous people indeed and they may well be instrumental in causing world war 3.

That is why I am pretty certain they had a very big hand in all of this.

The propaganda machine is working overtime.... Whatever it all looks like, you just need to look in the opposite direction and you will more likely see the truth right there. But the US is never going to allow facts get in the way of Russia bashing. Let's just hope for the sake of humanity, that the US goes down the tubes and collapses economically before this all really gets out of hand.

Russia are a formidable adversary if they get help from China and the entire middle east.

[lostsoul49]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

You see.... You are believing everything that you are being fed by western influenced press agencies who get most of their information from the Ukrainians.

Separatist towns and villages were being indiscriminately bombed daily, and the pro-Russians shoot down a few military aircraft. So what is the best way to stop separatists from shooting down your military planes??????

By shooting down a civilian aircraft and start a propaganda war with the west behind you.

Edited July 20, 2014 by lostsoul49

[Pralaad]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

What way is Russia acting?

Russia has been accused of something they did not do without any evidence at all.

Did you think Russia will just bow down to great us of a?

[Kimagure]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

What way is Russia acting?

Russia has been accused of something they did not do without any evidence at all.

Did you think Russia will just bow down to great us of a?

So... The Ukrainians blame Russia.. the Dutch, Australians, and Malaysians are demanding justice.. and every member of the EU is asking Russia to provide some answers.

Yet somehow, you are trying to blame this all on American policy?

Are you serious, or brainwashed, or just trolling?

Unbelievable.

[lostsoul49]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

What way is Russia acting?

Russia has been accused of something they did not do without any evidence at all.

Did you think Russia will just bow down to great us of a?

So... The Ukrainians blame Russia.. the Dutch, Australians, and Malaysians are demanding justice.. and every member of the EU is asking Russia to provide some answers.

Yet somehow, you are trying to blame this all on American policy?

Are you serious, or brainwashed, or just trolling?

Unbelievable.

Nope... not unbelievable.. In fact very much believable.

You seem to think that American foreign police is squeaky clean... I have some news for you.

But that aside, The other countries are demanding Russia 'to provide answers'????

So if you were being accused of doing something you didn't do.... would YOU be able to provide answers?

They are probably as much in the dark as you are and also probably correct by saying it was probably the Ukrainians.... But of course this is being rejected by the ANTI-RUSSIAN west... so what's the point?

[chooka]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

What way is Russia acting?

Russia has been accused of something they did not do without any evidence at all.

Did you think Russia will just bow down to great us of a?

So... The Ukrainians blame Russia.. the Dutch, Australians, and Malaysians are demanding justice.. and every member of the EU is asking Russia to provide some answers.

Yet somehow, you are trying to blame this all on American policy?

Are you serious, or brainwashed, or just trolling?

Unbelievable.

Abbott fears continued MH17 interference

Prime Minister Tony Abbott fears that while Russia might say the right things about an international investigation into the downed Malaysia Airlines flight 17, interference at the crash site will continue.

Mr Abbott described the crash site in eastern Ukraine as "chaotic" and reports of pro-Russian rebels meddling with the evidence - including the removal of bodies - as "outrageous".

The prime minister made clear his "dissatisfaction with the way this has been handled".

"Russian controlled territory, Russian-backed rebels, quite likely a Russian supplied weapon - Russia can't wash its hands of this," he said.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/07/20/09/59/abbott-fears-continued-mh17-interference

[chooka]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

You see.... You are believing everything that you are being fed by western influenced press agencies who get most of their information from the Ukrainians.

Separatist towns and villages were being indiscriminately bombed daily, and the pro-Russians shoot down a few military aircraft. So what is the best way to stop separatists from shooting down your military planes??????

By shooting down a civilian aircraft and start a propaganda war with the west behind you.

Russian reporters working for R.T news quit because they say they are being fed lies by Russia and refuse to report these lies and only want to report the facts. Russians who don't believe their own government.

[Pralaad]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

What way is Russia acting?

Russia has been accused of something they did not do without any evidence at all.

Did you think Russia will just bow down to great us of a?

So... The Ukrainians blame Russia.. the Dutch, Australians, and Malaysians are demanding justice.. and every member of the EU is asking Russia to provide some answers.

Yet somehow, you are trying to blame this all on American policy?

Are you serious, or brainwashed, or just trolling?

Unbelievable.

Errr, how would you propose Russia provides answers if they are not involved ?

Would you like Russia to make up a satisfying story?

[Pralaad]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

You see.... You are believing everything that you are being fed by western influenced press agencies who get most of their information from the Ukrainians.

Separatist towns and villages were being indiscriminately bombed daily, and the pro-Russians shoot down a few military aircraft. So what is the best way to stop separatists from shooting down your military planes??????

By shooting down a civilian aircraft and start a propaganda war with the west behind you.

Russian reporters working for R.T news quit because they say they are being fed lies by Russia and refuse to report these lies and only want to report the facts. Russians who don't believe their own government.

So those reporters know the truth ? Why not share it then?

[doremifasol]

The truth?

What truth???????

I would call this a Photoshop disaster!!!

[laolover88]

Members might like to read these

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-190714.html

http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/breaking-part-ii-evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh17-is-a-false-flag-operation/

Comment in UK Guardian:

If surface-to-air missiles create round holes in the fuselage of the target, and air-air missiles create arrow-shaped forms, then why does the MH 17 have arrow-shaped forms in the fuselage?

Why does the downed aircraft show cladding damage characteristic with pin and shrapnel warheads (air-to-air systems), much more characteristic of R-27 TOPOR or R-73 missiles used on the Ukraine military MIG-29 and SU-27 aircraft?

[3NUMBAS]

western propaganda about moving the bodies ,theyre taking them to the local morgue which is sensible in the situation, but they keep that quiet ,cant leave the corpses there day after day

[blueyeshk]

This thread looks very much hijacked by the Russian cyber propaganda


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[spidermike007]

Vladimir the destroyer is misbehaving yet again. The Russians witness his brazen behavior daily. Now, the world gets treated to an episode of the "world according to Vlad".

Spidermike007

[Chicog]

My personal opinion is that Russia and the rebels are in coverup mode. They wouldn't be acting this way if they didn't have something to hide.

You see.... You are believing everything that you are being fed by western influenced press agencies who get most of their information from the Ukrainians.

Separatist towns and villages were being indiscriminately bombed daily, and the pro-Russians shoot down a few military aircraft. So what is the best way to stop separatists from shooting down your military planes??????

By shooting down a civilian aircraft and start a propaganda war with the west behind you.

What a load of tosh.

If indeed it was shot down by a Ukrainian missile, the Pro-Russian separatists would be bending over backwards to accommodate a full investigation to provide proof.

As it is they are bending over backwards to keep people away from the crime scene and the bodies; the only logical reason for doing this is to give them time to clean it up.

Even ITAR-TASS has stopped blaming the Ukrainians, the cat got out of that particular bag a long time ago.

Blah Blah "western influenced press" you have a lot more chance of getting the truth out of that than you do out of Russia Today or Press TV. It's a ridiculous mantra.

If as you say Putin is an innocent in all this he would be ordering the Rebels to back off and let the international community in to retrieve and identify the victims and return them to their loved ones at the earliest opportunity. And allow a qualified investigation team in to find out exactly what took this plane down and where it came from.

But as I've pointed out before, if he does that it will prove that he is in fact controlling this murderous rabble and therefore is culpable in the killing of these innocents.

The longer it goes on, the more the cover up and the dissemination of "anti-West" nonsense such as the above will obfuscate the truth.

[Chicog]

Errr, how would you propose Russia provides answers if they are not involved ?

Would you like Russia to make up a satisfying story?

Russia has been involved in this conflict since it started.

Why are they suddenly not involved now?

[Chicog]

western propaganda about moving the bodies ,theyre taking them to the local morgue which is sensible in the situation, but they keep that quiet ,cant leave the corpses there day after day

They should be delivering them STRAIGHT to the Ukrainians. Kiev airport is open and they can be returned to their families promptly.

The only "propoganda" here is deluded people who think Russia and the rebels they control and trying to be decent. They are the worst form of human scum. And I include Putin in that for what he is putting those families through.

One phone call from him and these "rebels" would pull back.

[Cambodger]

western propaganda about moving the bodies ,theyre taking them to the local morgue which is sensible in the situation, but they keep that quiet ,cant leave the corpses there day after day

They should be delivering them STRAIGHT to the Ukrainians. Kiev airport is open and they can be returned to their families promptly.

The only "propoganda" here is deluded people who think Russia and the rebels they control and trying to be decent. They are the worst form of human scum. And I include Putin in that for what he is putting those families through.

One phone call from him and these "rebels" would pull back.

Maybe its escaped your attention in La La Land but they're in the middle of a ongoing civil war with the Ukraine government, that makes them the enemy.

The enemy thats accusing them of this disaster.

I dont know who shot this plane down and neither do you, so you should hold back with all your accusations and calling people scum

It would be a stupid move on their part to hand over all the evidence to Kiev until there's enough of a international presence there to make sure its not tampered with by the Ukrainians.

I've never heard of a air disaster where the bodies are put on planes back to their families within a couple of days, it takes weeks...

These people are dead and the best place for them right now is in a body bag in a freezer until the expert arrive to assess the situation.

I dont know how people like you survive in Asia with all the traffic accidents deaths, looting victims, photographing, social drinkings around accident sites with bodies on the ground, it must be difficult for you to deal with that.