Thousands march for Gaza in London, clashes in Paris over Israeli onslaught

[Mossfinn]

 

 

Yes, you are harassing. Replying to a personal message I sent in the forum, continuously posting the same message over and over urging for response, is harassment, and the mods deleted those posts you made to give you a hint, maybe they should have issued warnings...

And no, it's not about the responses I may get, I have heard them all by now, I can hold my own, no worries.

 

 

Maybe we have a different view of harassment, if you answered the question, I wouldn't have to repeat it would I?

 

[dr_lucas]

 

 

It does seem strange that posts deemed anti Semitic are removed, yet the majority of Islamaphobic, ones, even if reported, remain!
 
(That may cause me to be off on a holiday; but it had to be said.)

My guess would be, from reading your posts for years, is that what you consider "Islamaphobic", most other people don't.

 

 

If you are as familiar with my posting history as you claim to be you will see that I have regularly and consistently expressed my outrage and condemnation of Islamic terrorists at each and every opportunity.

 

Whilst at the same time defending the right of all people, whatever their religion, to peacefully go about their lives.

 

In the same way, I condemn and am outraged by the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF, for reasons which I have posted many times. I wont post them again; as you have said to Mossfinn many times, go back and read them.

 

Doing so does not make me, nor anyone with the same opinion, Judeophobic, anti Semitic or whatever the word of the day is.

 

Neither does it mean I do not support the right of the Israeli people to go peacefully about their daily lives. I have condemned the attacks by Hamas as well.

 

 

Sorry to break the news to you, but continuously posting Pro-Palestinian posts and dodging every question I ask you which answer to may show that Israel is right, just proves your bias. 

[Ulysses G.]

 

GentlemanJim has not figured out that they are on the same side yet. 

You just don't get it do you ugg?

 

Tell it to someone who has not seen the silly games that you play for years, already. Maybe they will take your trolling seriously.

[Mossfinn]

I guess by asking uncomfortable questions, I will get called many names. But by not responding to a simple question, I am requested to troll through a myriad of pages, I have heard of trying to defend the indefensible, but that is just plain ridiculous.

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

 

It does seem strange that posts deemed anti Semitic are removed, yet the majority of Islamaphobic, ones, even if reported, remain!
 
(That may cause me to be off on a holiday; but it had to be said.)

My guess would be, from reading your posts for years, is that what you consider "Islamaphobic", most other people don't.

 

 

If you are as familiar with my posting history as you claim to be you will see that I have regularly and consistently expressed my outrage and condemnation of Islamic terrorists at each and every opportunity.

 

Whilst at the same time defending the right of all people, whatever their religion, to peacefully go about their lives.

 

In the same way, I condemn and am outraged by the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF, for reasons which I have posted many times. I wont post them again; as you have said to Mossfinn many times, go back and read them.

 

Doing so does not make me, nor anyone with the same opinion, Judeophobic, anti Semitic or whatever the word of the day is.

 

Neither does it mean I do not support the right of the Israeli people to go peacefully about their daily lives. I have condemned the attacks by Hamas as well.

 

 

Sorry to break the news to you, but continuously posting Pro-Palestinian posts and dodging every question I ask you which answer to may show that Israel is right, just proves your bias. 

 

 

He seems to think that people take his spin seriously. We are supposed to forget about his numerous  comparisons between Israel and the Nazis and his denials of the anti-Semitic posts on the forum.  I prefer the posters who just come out and say what they mean. 

[fasteddie]

 

Go back and read this thread from the beginning. There are lots of articles, photos and video evidence on what kind scum show up for those anti-Semitic protests. However, there is a major difference between anti-Israel protests in Europe and the U.S.
 
“When it comes to Europe, I think the overwhelming factor is raw native deep-seated anti-Semitism,” he told Fox News on Tuesday. For a long time, the anti-Semites of Europe discovered that by using the “veneer of anti-Zionism,” they could get away with it, he said.

“Now, the veneer and cover are gone,” Krauthammer said. Signs used by European protests saying “Hitler was right” and chants about gassing Jews makes anti-Israel protests into “raw anti-Semitism finding a semi-respectable outlet,” he said.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/384680/krauthammer-european-opponents-israel-are-anti-semitic-american-ones-are-just-ignorant

...
 

Yes, the increase in OPEN and SHAMELESS global antisemitism (against Jews) is dramatic, scary, and wrong. The most disturbing part is that more average people (not just the obvious Nazis and radical Islamists) seem to be saying Jews "deserve" and should "expect" this hatred "because" of what's happening in Israel. I think some "liberal" Jews are playing a sickening and cowardly game. They might march with placards saying "Not in Our Name" about Israeli policies and I think their implicit message is -- yes it is OK to hate on all the Jews in the world that are supportive of the existence of Israel ... but don't hate on us who are not, see we are not, look at our signs. Don't they see what message that gives about how it is justified to hate on the MAJORITY of Jews in the world who feel support to the one nation state in the world of the Jewish people, Israel? Do they really think real haters care about their "progressive" politics when push comes to shove? No, of course Jews have every right to express their politics like anyone else, but these are strange times, these protest rallies are being used to express messages that are not only anti-Israeli policies but also markedly suggestive of riling up Jew hating in various ways ... such as the "child murders" meme. Yes in the face of the reality of the current poisonous hatred of this time in history, yes, I am questioning the wisdom (not the right) of any Jews being involved in these kinds of rallies ... not sure about it, but I am questioning it. 
 
The blood libel / "child murderer" emphasis thing Krauthammer mentions is for real, from Islam and European Christians.
 
 

COMMENT: British Jews labelled ‘child murderers' as sick anti-Semitism spreads across UK JULY 2014 now joins January 2009 as a month when war between Israel and Hamas caused anti-Semitism to spew forth across Britain.
 
 

 
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/496333/British-Jews-labelled-child-murderers-as-anti-Semitism-spreads-across-UK
 

 
. The overwhelming aggression displayed by Israel against Palestinian people is unacceptable, and it continues, unabated day after day. You tell us how 'small' and isolated Israel is and how it deserves the right to exist. Nobody on here disputes that, BUT it is the 5th most powerful military nation on earth - not bad for such a small place eh! The violence it is delivering upon women and children is 'sickening', and all normal human beings are sickened by it. If for example any other country in the world were delivering that violence on any other people who were unable to defend themselves then that nation would face the wrath of all other good human beings. It just so happens that it is Israel - yet again who is dishing out the  violence, so guess what - hatred for Israel is growing on a daily basis around the world. Does that really surprise you? i do not understand how you cannot see that the growing dislike for all things Israeli will be the result. And lets get one thing straight, stop playing the 'Jew' card! I have many good Jewish friends living in the UK, USA and Canada who deplore these actions by Israel, they are great and good people. The dislike here is for Israel and its current war mongering regime, NOT as you keep saying Jews.
 
For all the propaganda and self justification that you and a few million others have swallowed up and convinced yourself of there are BILLIONS of people that believe you are wrong. If we had a GLOBAL referendum tomorrow then Israel would be flushed down the toilet in a heartbeat- as would any other nation guilty of the war crimes that Israel is guilty of. If you cannot work out why then that is your problem. You are making Israel the victim again, it is NOT. Israel is in a very privileged position and it's abuse of that position is plain for all normal folk to see. The fact that some people even justify it because a man who nobody actually knows who he really was and who cannot be identified said it was 'the promised land' 3000 years ago is beyond absurd. The man who went up a mountain on his own, disappeared came back a while later and said, you'll never believe this but I have been talking to God who made me write this on these stone tablets and he said he will only talk to me and has put me in charge of you all! "oh ok then" says everybody - guess you are in charge then! If anybody did that today they would be sectioned under the mental health act, he does it 3000 years ago and he is a bloody prophet!
 
Israel has no desire to be part of the international community, it flouts and ignores UN resolutions like it is a national sport, and you expect the rest of the world to have sympathy. If tomorrow we got rid of ISIS, Al Q, the Taliban, the CIA and the current regime in Israel (will you mis translate that now and say i am calling for the total wiping from the map of Israel?) the world would actually wake up a much much safer and happier place, then we could deal with the rest of the thugs and religious extremists (of all flavours)that take advantage of the chaos in the world today.
 
The world-wide protests being carried out should tell you that something is wrong with your current mind-set. A re-think might be in order. Good people do not go to the trouble of getting off their ass, taking a day off work, traveling a hundred miles to London and walking for 5 miles on a hot day just to have a 'undeserved' go at Israel. They BELIEVE their protest is just and valid. Protests will always attract idiots and people with extreme views and that is who the camera men are looking for, they dont look for the other 10 000 normal, good people who are saying enough is enough, that wouldn't make them any money, they just seek out the idiots. You then read their reports and claim that idiotic behaviour is representative of the other 10-20-30 thousand people taking part in the protest.
 
Until Israel acts with the responsibility that it should as one of the worlds top 5 military powers then do not expect an ounce of respect or sympathy from everyone else. You reap what you sow.

What he said with bells on!

[GentlemanJim]

 

 

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>
 

 

And many people of all persuasions now don't.
 
And all I ask is for answers to my questions, maybe I ask too much?

 

 
I was not talking to you and you have clipped my post and made it completely out of context. That is against forum rules!, At NO TIME have you asked ME any questions. Take your gripe to the people that you asked questions to and leave me out of it. Clear!

 

 
Jim, my apologies, my flippant response has angered you and that is inexcusable. I will report it and ask for it to be removed, it has had the response I neither expected, or wanted, and in absolutely no way was directed at you.
 
Moss

 

GentlemanJim has not figured out that they are on the same side yet. 

 

Is that the level of maturity we are now reduced to? Do you think this is about being on 'sides' UG? you are either with me or against me'? And I thought I was dealing with adults. This is not about 'sides' UG, many of us have tried telling you, this is not about sides, I am not on one side or the other, but I DO know right from wrong,  it is not about a game of basket ball or tag team wrestling, this is about an individuals views as to whether they support or do not support the actions of a powerful foreign Government. It is not about religion or Jews, it is about a powerful Foreign Government raining down death and destruction on an imprisoned densely packed population. Your remarks along with the big smiley, show that you have zero compassion for anyone in this matter. Whilst many many people die on both sides, for you this is just an internet game, some entertainment to brighten up an otherwise dull and dreary day. A team game! Well take your team and go somewhere where you can have a good laugh, perhaps down at the pub forum would be more suitable.

[DPIZZA]

 

 

Think you'll find most regular decent people condemn killing of women and children whoever does it and whoever are the victims.

 

It is false to suggest its anything for most but simply a natural reaction when innocents and those unable to defend themselves are killed. 

 

There is no defence no matter who the aggressor is, whatever race, whatever nation, whatever religion, it is wrong and disgusting to most. People do not like to see civilian casualties, period. 

 

It just happens to be Israel as the main aggressor  and the more people try to justify so many children and civilian injuries and deaths the less support Israel will continue to enjoy or indeed be surprised or sympathetic when there is blowback. This would be both unfortunate and sad but as we know all too well from history when a bully eventually gets taken down a peg or two then the usual reaction is one of apathy and people tend to be unsurprised and often even unsympathetic. In Israel's case not because most normal people are  Anti Semitic but because its simply wrong and they tend to have long  memories and understand what goes around often comes around.  

 

And yes if this were the British instead of Israel acting in this manner I would be ashamed of Britain and also outraged ( as I am for many things Britain has done and continues to at times ) whether I were myself British or considered Britain an ally. 

 

 

I agree with you 100% that killing of women and children or any other civilians is shocking and should be avoided.

Also most of the people of Israel would agree with you ( ofcourse there are the extremists on both sides, but they are a minority).

 

BUT the problem is that you fail to understand WHY citizens are being killed, and from there HOW to make it stop!

 

Hamas doesnt have the sensitivity that you and the rest of the western world has for human lives. 

It uses death of civilians for its advantage in a sick propaganda.

For Hamas, the more civilian casualties, the more shocking the better. 

Unfortunately, Hamas and News agencies share an interest - the more shocking the better the story.

 

Hamas uses your sensitivity to their advantage. They actually were counting on it!

They know pretty well that they cant defeat Israel with their rockets, they want to defeat it on the world opinion stage.

Otherwise, how can you explain that they refused all long lasting cease fires, broke all "Humanitarian cease fires", and were the one to start this conflict!

 

They dont think like me and you. For the extremist Muslim, to die as a shahid (martyr in the name of Islam) is the best thing they can aspire to.

All life here on earth come to serve only one goal, the life in the afterlife, and there, it is only heaven or hell.

So according to that twisted logic, ofcourse you want a sure ticket for reaching heaven (being a Shahid).

 

Hamas caused the conflict. It doesnt want to stop it. It hides behinds civilians.

It attacks from civilian centers to reach a win win situation: or Israel will sustain from hitting the target, or more civilians will die.

The more civilian dies, the more people will join their rank, the more Israel looses its status.

 

I dont expect you to believe me, do research on your own, but you can start with these:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2wvqDfitLY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6iKFQDEP4

 

 

Spare me the propaganda videos, there is nothing special about you tube examples, there are thousands out there all from all points of view and it represents the views of very few and is counter productive to peace and progress. Although of course that is the point of both fundamentalist camps. That is not research btw

 

Sensitivity extends as far as people wish it according to their own moral sense of decency.  I see no excuse in this age for people ( especially educated peoples ) to accept any killing of civilians not your own and not on another's.

 

I would suggest leaving the religion aspect aside too. Your beliefs are yours as they are theirs and I would rather not go into the foolishness of mans attempts to justify his own actions in the name of it. Frankly to many it is the biggest lie ever conceived by man in order to justify murdering and attempting to vilify others. 

 

Now on to your idea that a walled in people has anywhere to go, its getting a bit old hearing about the human shield when 1.7m are in a small area such as Gaza. Civilians are being killed mostly because Israel is not at all bothered where it target. Israel is using its own form of terrorism no less but on a far grander scale, its hard to see that being popular. 

 

As far as your theory on Hammas is concerned seeking attn  it is probably correct, they do want to see these atrocities affect world opinion and it hopes to feed their aim for international sympathy, then again you have to in that case marvel at the genius of Hammas knowing its enemy so well and the stupidity of Israel in supplying the desired effect no ? 

 

in your scenario Israel playing into the hands of Hammas would be one of the most stupid moves it could do, yet here it is doing exactly that.... would it not be better and smarter for the supposed brains of Israel to quit making the same mistakes and lowering themselves to the level of whom they claim to be above and find a final two state solution that its been bucking for decades ?  

 

Israel continues decade after decade to lose its victim status in the eyes of many, it should be concerned because for all its wealth and intelligence it really does show it lacks wisdom and human compassion no less than any other repressive regime its people faced in the past. Not so far removed from those it would like to claim it differs from. Same same just pretends to be different.

 

Do your own research, the similarities in attitude and thinking by Hammas and often Israel's policy and responses are sadly quite striking. 

 

The problem you have is your eye for an eye attitude, as a wise man once said. only ends up making the whole world blind. (Gandhi) 

 

Hello EnglishOak,

i was thinking to answer all the subjects you raised, but it would just take to long, since i have answer for every single word you have written.

Instead, i will address the main point and the important issues.

 

2 days ago Hamas and Islamic Jihad didnt want to continue the cease fire proposed by Egypt, US, PA and Israel.

It wants to continue the negotiations while still fighting to exert pressure on Israel, and by that, risking the lives of thousands of Gazans again...

This action is totally not in accordance to the erroneous assumption that Israel is the aggressor, and that Hamas actually fight for the sake of the Gazans.

Hamas prefers to survive on the back and on the blood of its people. Its wealthy leaders who stays in Qatar and Egypt dont risk themselves in Gaza, while going to fitness clubs in their luxury hotels.

The right thing to do, is to give up the power to the Palestinian Authority headed by Abu Mazen. 

They failed in bringing prosperity to the people who chose them in free elections in 2005.

The way of terror is not the way like you have rightly said: "an eye for an eye will make the all world blind..."

 

It is arrogant from your side to think that Israel and Israelis do not understand this very well.

It also shows that you again erroneously think of Israelis as some kind of a Jihadist radicals.

That is totally untrue. Israel is a DEMOCRACY where decisions are made by elected government, elected every 4 years, and not by fanatic religious types.

21% of it population is non Jewish, mostly Arabs (Palestinians by your understanding). They have equal voting rights, have members of congress, judges, teachers, etc...

you my friend are on the wrong side of the argument, and it is really funny (more sad) for me to see how terrorists managed to hijack the logic from people like you.

 

Hamas, on the other hand is exactly the opposite: a terror Jihadist organization, which despises your democratic liberal life style, who doesnt even recognize Israel, let alone wanting to directly negotiate with it!

[uptheos]

I guess by asking uncomfortable questions, I will get called many names. But by not responding to a simple question, I am requested to troll through a myriad of pages, I have heard of trying to defend the indefensible, but that is just plain ridiculous.

 

You wrote at 17:58 "I would like to respond to your reasoned response in more depth later, as I am about to take my son out". 

 

Is he still waiting?

[Ulysses G.]

Is that the level of maturity we are now reduced to? Do you think this is about being on 'sides' UG?

Somehow, I overlooked all your pro-Israel posts and your buddy's too. How could I have been so remiss?

[Pattszero]

 

 

 

Think you'll find most regular decent people condemn killing of women and children whoever does it and whoever are the victims.

 

It is false to suggest its anything for most but simply a natural reaction when innocents and those unable to defend themselves are killed. 

 

There is no defence no matter who the aggressor is, whatever race, whatever nation, whatever religion, it is wrong and disgusting to most. People do not like to see civilian casualties, period. 

 

It just happens to be Israel as the main aggressor  and the more people try to justify so many children and civilian injuries and deaths the less support Israel will continue to enjoy or indeed be surprised or sympathetic when there is blowback. This would be both unfortunate and sad but as we know all too well from history when a bully eventually gets taken down a peg or two then the usual reaction is one of apathy and people tend to be unsurprised and often even unsympathetic. In Israel's case not because most normal people are  Anti Semitic but because its simply wrong and they tend to have long  memories and understand what goes around often comes around.  

 

And yes if this were the British instead of Israel acting in this manner I would be ashamed of Britain and also outraged ( as I am for many things Britain has done and continues to at times ) whether I were myself British or considered Britain an ally. 

 

 

I agree with you 100% that killing of women and children or any other civilians is shocking and should be avoided.

Also most of the people of Israel would agree with you ( ofcourse there are the extremists on both sides, but they are a minority).

 

BUT the problem is that you fail to understand WHY citizens are being killed, and from there HOW to make it stop!

 

Hamas doesnt have the sensitivity that you and the rest of the western world has for human lives. 

It uses death of civilians for its advantage in a sick propaganda.

For Hamas, the more civilian casualties, the more shocking the better. 

Unfortunately, Hamas and News agencies share an interest - the more shocking the better the story.

 

Hamas uses your sensitivity to their advantage. They actually were counting on it!

They know pretty well that they cant defeat Israel with their rockets, they want to defeat it on the world opinion stage.

Otherwise, how can you explain that they refused all long lasting cease fires, broke all "Humanitarian cease fires", and were the one to start this conflict!

 

They dont think like me and you. For the extremist Muslim, to die as a shahid (martyr in the name of Islam) is the best thing they can aspire to.

All life here on earth come to serve only one goal, the life in the afterlife, and there, it is only heaven or hell.

So according to that twisted logic, ofcourse you want a sure ticket for reaching heaven (being a Shahid).

 

Hamas caused the conflict. It doesnt want to stop it. It hides behinds civilians.

It attacks from civilian centers to reach a win win situation: or Israel will sustain from hitting the target, or more civilians will die.

The more civilian dies, the more people will join their rank, the more Israel looses its status.

 

I dont expect you to believe me, do research on your own, but you can start with these:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2wvqDfitLY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6iKFQDEP4

 

 

Spare me the propaganda videos, there is nothing special about you tube examples, there are thousands out there all from all points of view and it represents the views of very few and is counter productive to peace and progress. Although of course that is the point of both fundamentalist camps. That is not research btw

 

Sensitivity extends as far as people wish it according to their own moral sense of decency.  I see no excuse in this age for people ( especially educated peoples ) to accept any killing of civilians not your own and not on another's.

 

I would suggest leaving the religion aspect aside too. Your beliefs are yours as they are theirs and I would rather not go into the foolishness of mans attempts to justify his own actions in the name of it. Frankly to many it is the biggest lie ever conceived by man in order to justify murdering and attempting to vilify others. 

 

Now on to your idea that a walled in people has anywhere to go, its getting a bit old hearing about the human shield when 1.7m are in a small area such as Gaza. Civilians are being killed mostly because Israel is not at all bothered where it target. Israel is using its own form of terrorism no less but on a far grander scale, its hard to see that being popular. 

 

As far as your theory on Hammas is concerned seeking attn  it is probably correct, they do want to see these atrocities affect world opinion and it hopes to feed their aim for international sympathy, then again you have to in that case marvel at the genius of Hammas knowing its enemy so well and the stupidity of Israel in supplying the desired effect no ? 

 

in your scenario Israel playing into the hands of Hammas would be one of the most stupid moves it could do, yet here it is doing exactly that.... would it not be better and smarter for the supposed brains of Israel to quit making the same mistakes and lowering themselves to the level of whom they claim to be above and find a final two state solution that its been bucking for decades ?  

 

Israel continues decade after decade to lose its victim status in the eyes of many, it should be concerned because for all its wealth and intelligence it really does show it lacks wisdom and human compassion no less than any other repressive regime its people faced in the past. Not so far removed from those it would like to claim it differs from. Same same just pretends to be different.

 

Do your own research, the similarities in attitude and thinking by Hammas and often Israel's policy and responses are sadly quite striking. 

 

The problem you have is your eye for an eye attitude, as a wise man once said. only ends up making the whole world blind. (Gandhi) 

 

Hello EnglishOak,

 

i was thinking to answer all the subjects you raised, but it would just take to long, since i have answer for every single word you have written.

 

Instead, i will address the main point and the important issues.

 

 

2 days ago Hamas and Islamic Jihad didnt want to continue the cease fire proposed by Egypt, US, PA and Israel.

 

It wants to continue the negotiations while still fighting to exert pressure on Israel, and by that, risking the lives of thousands of Gazans again...

 

This action is totally not in accordance to the erroneous assumption that Israel is the aggressor, and that Hamas actually fight for the sake of the Gazans.

 

Hamas prefers to survive on the back and on the blood of its people. Its wealthy leaders who stays in Qatar and Egypt dont risk themselves in Gaza, while going to fitness clubs in their luxury hotels.

 

The right thing to do, is to give up the power to the Palestinian Authority headed by Abu Mazen. 

 

They failed in bringing prosperity to the people who chose them in free elections in 2005.

 

The way of terror is not the way like you have rightly said: "an eye for an eye will make the all world blind..."

 

 

It is arrogant from your side to think that Israel and Israelis do not understand this very well.

 

It also shows that you again erroneously think of Israelis as some kind of a Jihadist radicals.

 

That is totally untrue. Israel is a DEMOCRACY where decisions are made by elected government, elected every 4 years, and not by fanatic religious types.

 

21% of it population is non Jewish, mostly Arabs (Palestinians by your understanding). They have equal voting rights, have members of congress, judges, teachers, etc...

 

you my friend are on the wrong side of the argument, and it is really funny (more sad) for me to see how terrorists managed to hijack the logic from people like you.

 

 

Hamas, on the other hand is exactly the opposite: a terror Jihadist organization, which despises your democratic liberal life style, who doesnt even recognize Israel, let alone wanting to directly negotiate with it!

 

 

 

Good post - the problem is that vengeful bombardments are great recruiting sergeants for Jihadists.

 

You'll find even more sprouting up now.

 

Not a very clever long term prospect for Israel is that, eh?  

.....................................................................................................................................

 

Hours after narrowly failing to murder Margaret Thatcher in the Brighton bomb, the IRA calmly announced:

 

“Today we were unlucky, but remember we only have to be lucky once – you will have to be lucky always.” 

......................................................................................................................................

 

Perpetual war will be the death of Israel. 

[Mossfinn]

 

 

GentlemanJim has not figured out that they are on the same side yet. 

You just don't get it do you ugg?

 

Tell it to someone who has not seen the silly games that you play for years, already. Maybe they will take your trolling seriously.

 

 

You have altered my post, isn't that against forum rules, as the poster who liked your post, was prompt to tell me earlier
 

[Jingthing]

Perpetual war will be the death of Israel. 

 

Perhaps.

Nobody knows.

But laying down their arms in the face of a radical Islamic Jihadist death cult that has openly stated their genocidal intentions against Jews to the one Jewish state would mean a much QUICKER death. 

Let the global protesters intentionally or unintentionally cheerlead for the Hamas dream of the end of Israel by chanting their "River to the Sea"  rap rhyme to express "anti-Zionism" ...  a "PR war" is not the top priority of Israel right now. A REAL WAR is. 

[DPIZZA]

 

 

It is worth noting that the Palestinian refugees are still confined to camps as other Arab countries find it expedient, for whatever reason, to not let them assimilate into their own countries.

 
It's true the oil rich nations have enough money to give the people of Gaza a fresh start in their respective countries.
But who in their right mind would bring evil and trouble to its own doorstep?
No, they are happy to fuel the fire of Hamas and let them make martyrs of women and children.
Distant slaughter by proxy is the rich Arab way.

 

 

So, if your homeland was invaded and you were forced out of your homes into a refugee camp in a foreign country you would simply shrug your shoulders and say 'Never mind, I'll take my family to live somewhere else!'

 

Good job that sort of thinking didn't exist in 1940!

 

oh really?

 

Even though the Jews in Germany and occupied countries in Europe were suffering from genocide, i don't remember many cases where they blew themselves up on Nazi families and citizens, or shooting rockets into Berlin from their Ghettos! or not even going around with knifes cutting the heads of German officers! The few that did fight back were partisans who usually went after Nazi's military targets.

 

But lets not go that far, lets talk about 800,000 Jewish people from the Arab nations: the Arab Jews!  They were expelled from their countries and homes, in Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, etc.. without letting them take any property, when their only crime was being Jewish! Some of them were very wealthy people, and respected in their communities, and all their belongings and property was taken by the state! Today, they all live in Israel, and non of them want to be back to their old countries and live with their Arab neighbors! Unlike the Palis fake unending refugee status, the Arab Jews built their life from nothing in their new country, not looking back, never getting any refugee status, or any finance from anyone! 

 

Do you see them building terror organizations in their old countries? NO!

 

Here, for you education, the story of the Arab Jews, the forgotten refugees:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=KH8RL2XRr48

 

 

 

[Mossfinn]

 

 

 

It does seem strange that posts deemed anti Semitic are removed, yet the majority of Islamaphobic, ones, even if reported, remain!
 
(That may cause me to be off on a holiday; but it had to be said.)

My guess would be, from reading your posts for years, is that what you consider "Islamaphobic", most other people don't.

 

 

If you are as familiar with my posting history as you claim to be you will see that I have regularly and consistently expressed my outrage and condemnation of Islamic terrorists at each and every opportunity.

 

Whilst at the same time defending the right of all people, whatever their religion, to peacefully go about their lives.

 

In the same way, I condemn and am outraged by the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF, for reasons which I have posted many times. I wont post them again; as you have said to Mossfinn many times, go back and read them.

 

Doing so does not make me, nor anyone with the same opinion, Judeophobic, anti Semitic or whatever the word of the day is.

 

Neither does it mean I do not support the right of the Israeli people to go peacefully about their daily lives. I have condemned the attacks by Hamas as well.

 

 

Sorry to break the news to you, but continuously posting Pro-Palestinian posts and dodging every question I ask you which answer to may show that Israel is right, just proves your bias. 

 

Dodging every question? Perhaps he is reading from your rule book, I have got to the end of page 5 so far, another 18 to go, and although I understand the stance, I bet if I continue to read, and the jury is out on that at the moment, there will be no answer to my question.

 

Care to oblige, yourself and ug, if only to spare me your unswerving loyalty?

[Pattszero]

 

Perpetual war will be the death of Israel. 

 

Perhaps.

Nobody knows.

But laying down their arms in the face of a radical Islamic Jihadist death cult that has openly stated their genocidal intentions against Jews to the one Jewish state would mean a much QUICKER death. 

Let the global protesters intentionally or unintentionally cheerlead for the Hamas dream of the end of Israel by chanting their "River to the Sea"  rap rhyme to express "anti-Zionism" ...  a "PR war" is not the top priority of Israel right now. A REAL WAR is. 

 

 

Well I'm certainly not in that camp - my greatest concern for Israel is that I see and hear a tidal wave of anti-semitism growing. 

 

It's bad enough in the west - I dread to think what it's like in the Muslim world. 

 

What atrocity is being formed now?

 

And you know what?  -  Netanhayu walked straight into this trap.  

 

Anyone that thinks this wasn't a vengeance mission re the three boys is seriously deluded. 

 

There was no need for it - and it's backfiring dramatically. 

[Ulysses G.]

 

So, if your homeland was invaded and you were forced out of your homes into a refugee camp in a foreign country you would simply shrug your shoulders and say 'Never mind, I'll take my family to live somewhere else!'
 
Good job that sort of thinking didn't exist in 1940!

oh really?
 
Even though the Jews in Germany and occupied countries in Europe were suffering from genocide, i don't remember many cases where they blew themselves up on Nazi families and citizens, or shooting rockets into Berlin from their Ghettos! or not even going around with knifes cutting the heads of German officers!

 

Of course they didn't. This poster is constantly comparing Nazis and the Jews and it is complete nonsense. The Palestinians started the violence in their conflict. The Jews did NOT. 

[midas]

 

 

 

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>
 

 
I was not talking to you and you have clipped my post and made it completely out of context. That is against forum rules!, At NO TIME have you asked ME any questions. Take your gripe to the people that you asked questions to and leave me out of it. Clear!

 

 
Jim, my apologies, my flippant response has angered you and that is inexcusable. I will report it and ask for it to be removed, it has had the response I neither expected, or wanted, and in absolutely no way was directed at you.
 
Moss

 

GentlemanJim has not figured out that they are on the same side yet. 

 

Is that the level of maturity we are now reduced to? Do you think this is about being on 'sides' UG? you are either with me or against me'? And I thought I was dealing with adults. This is not about 'sides' UG, many of us have tried telling you, this is not about sides, I am not on one side or the other, but I DO know right from wrong,  it is not about a game of basket ball or tag team wrestling, this is about an individuals views as to whether they support or do not support the actions of a powerful foreign Government. It is not about religion or Jews, it is about a powerful Foreign Government raining down death and destruction on an imprisoned densely packed population. Your remarks along with the big smiley, show that you have zero compassion for anyone in this matter. Whilst many many people die on both sides, for you this is just an internet game, some entertainment to brighten up an otherwise dull and dreary day. A team game! Well take your team and go somewhere where you can have a good laugh, perhaps down at the pub forum would be more suitable.

 

 

 

" Your remarks along with the big smiley, show that you have zero compassion for anyone in this matter."

 

How very well put!

 

And as I watch this atrocity on various television news channels day after day, I really begin to wonder to what extent this heartless and the callous attitude is endemic in their society? It's potentially quite chilling.

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

Perpetual war will be the death of Israel.

Perhaps.
Nobody knows.
But laying down their arms in the face of a radical Islamic Jihadist death cult that has openly stated their genocidal intentions against Jews to the one Jewish state would mean a much QUICKER death. 
Let the global protesters intentionally or unintentionally cheerlead for the Hamas dream of the end of Israel by chanting their "River to the Sea"  rap rhyme to express "anti-Zionism" ...  a "PR war" is not the top priority of Israel right now. A REAL WAR is.

 

 
Well I'm certainly not in that camp - my greatest concern for Israel is that I see and hear a tidal wave of anti-semitism growing.

 

It was always there. That is why Israel has been treated so unfairly. However, the mainstream media are finally admitting it, which is progress.

 

I would draw a sharp distinction between the European sympathizers and demonstrators from the American ones. When it comes to Europe, I think the overwhelming factor is raw, native, deep-seated anti-Semitism. This is 2,000-year-old anti-Semitism. Now for awhile they discovered that if you put the veneer of anti-Zionism -- the cover of anti-Zionism -- you can get away with it in respectable society. The veneer and cover are gone. You've got placards being carried in Germany of all places, 'Hitler was right.' Chants of Jews to the gas. This is raw anti-Semitism finding a semi-respectable outlet and you get the foreign ministers of France, Germany and Italy issuing a joint statement denouncing anti-Semitism in their country.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/08/05/krauthammer_on_anti-israel_protests_this_is_raw_anti-semitism_finding_a_semi-respectable_outlet.html

 

 

[Pattszero]

 

 

 

Perpetual war will be the death of Israel.

Perhaps.
Nobody knows.
But laying down their arms in the face of a radical Islamic Jihadist death cult that has openly stated their genocidal intentions against Jews to the one Jewish state would mean a much QUICKER death. 
Let the global protesters intentionally or unintentionally cheerlead for the Hamas dream of the end of Israel by chanting their "River to the Sea"  rap rhyme to express "anti-Zionism" ...  a "PR war" is not the top priority of Israel right now. A REAL WAR is.

 

 
Well I'm certainly not in that camp - my greatest concern for Israel is that I see and hear a tidal wave of anti-semitism growing.

 

It was always there. That is why Israel has been treated so unfairly. However, the mainstream media are finally admitting it, which is progress.

 

I would draw a sharp distinction between the European sympathizers and demonstrators from the American ones. When it comes to Europe, I think the overwhelming factor is raw, native, deep-seated anti-Semitism. This is 2,000-year-old anti-Semitism. Now for awhile they discovered that if you put the veneer of anti-Zionism -- the cover of anti-Zionism -- you can get away with it in respectable society. The veneer and cover are gone. You've got placards being carried in Germany of all places, 'Hitler was right.' Chants of Jews to the gas. This is raw anti-Semitism finding a semi-respectable outlet and you get the foreign ministers of France, Germany and Italy issuing a joint statement denouncing anti-Semitism in their country.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/08/05/krauthammer_on_anti-israel_protests_this_is_raw_anti-semitism_finding_a_semi-respectable_outlet.html

 

 

 

 

The second greatest anti-semitic act of the twentieth century was shipping all the Jews out of Europe and into Israel.  

 

All wise Jews know that. 

 

Disgusting - 

[Ulysses G.]

The second greatest anti-semitic act of the twentieth century was shipping all the Jews out of Europe and into Israel.

If they had stuck around, they would have all ended up being gassed. Now THAT Is "Disgusting"!

[DPIZZA]

 

 

Why should other Arab countries absorb Palestinian refugees

Because they drove thousands of Jews out of their homes in their countries - that had to flee to Israel with only the clothes on their backs. If Arabs have the "right to return", then Jews should too as well as compensation for all their stolen property, but neither one is going to happen.

 

 

You're getting your timeline of events confused again.

 

There is nothing wrong with his timeline.

Actually the timeline has nothing to do with it.

It doesnt matter when the Arab expelled the Jews from their country.

The Jews in the Arab world were not Israeli citizens or any fighting side in the conflict, unlike the Palis in Israel.

Their only crime was that they were Jewish.

It is funny that the Arabs think that ALL Jews should be blamed for the fighting in Israel,

while when someone says something against Muslims they immediately shout Islamophobia!

Dont you think so?

[DaveWalsh]

The second greatest anti-semitic act of the twentieth century was shipping all the Jews out of Europe and into Israel.  

 

All wise Jews know that. 

 

Disgusting - 

 

This has to be the most idiotic comment on the thread.

[DaveWalsh]

I would draw a sharp distinction between the European sympathizers and demonstrators from the American ones. When it comes to Europe, I think the overwhelming factor is raw, native, deep-seated anti-Semitism. This is 2,000-year-old anti-Semitism. Now for awhile they discovered that if you put the veneer of anti-Zionism -- the cover of anti-Zionism -- you can get away with it in respectable society. The veneer and cover are gone. You've got placards being carried in Germany of all places, 'Hitler was right.' Chants of Jews to the gas. This is raw anti-Semitism finding a semi-respectable outlet and you get the foreign ministers of France, Germany and Italy issuing a joint statement denouncing anti-Semitism in their country.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/08/05/krauthammer_on_anti-israel_protests_this_is_raw_anti-semitism_finding_a_semi-respectable_outlet.html

 

You've posted this quote already. 

 

Posting the same quote multiple times (albeit using different sources) doesn't make it any more valid. 

 

Focusing solely on a tiny number of anti-semitic extremists (most of whom know little about Hitler and couldn't locate Israel on a map) strikes me as a desperate basis for an argument.  

 

Why not focus instead on the vast majority of protesters who condemn Israel's actions on purely humanitarian grounds. 

[DPIZZA]

When would that time be?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, but there would come a time where reality would have to be faced, and rather than holding on to the dream of

turning back the clock, a leadership needs to do what is best for the interests of its people and salvage what they

can out of the mess. Being defeated and having to compromise is not how things were supposed to go, but such is

life.
 

 

 

What is now Israel was part of non Jewish states for roughly 2000 years before 1948. Using your argument, the state of Israel should not exist!

 

(How long before someone quotes just the last phrase as 'proof' that is my opinion?)

 

The problem is that the Jews DID try to assimilate in their own countries.

But the same unreasonable hate that your side of the argument shows towards them now, prevented them from really assimilate.

At the start of the 19'th century there were 2 opposing ideas to solve the problem of Antisemitism:

one claimed that the Jews should gain some kind of Autonomy in their own countries- Auto emancipation.

The other claimed that the Jews should leave their countries and return to their father's land Israel - Zionism.

After the holocaust, many Jews were disillusioned from the idea that they can be safe among the nations, and that is how Zionism gained it popularity.

 

The Palestinian would not have the trouble the Jews had, according to the support you guys give them in your comments, to assimilate in your societies and actually many of them did already, and they are living quiet well, without consideration to their failing leadership.

[mrtoad]

 

GentlemanJim has not figured out that they are on the same side yet. 

You just don't get it do you ugg?
 

Tell it to someone who has not seen the silly games that you play for years, already. Maybe they will take your trolling seriously.

Pot and a Kettle springs to mind.

UG, if one has Anti Israeli Government beliefs, does that make one an Anti-Semite? I am getting more and more confused, as it seems that anyone who criticises the disgusting antics of The Israeli government gets classed as one.

[Loptr]

I guess by asking uncomfortable questions, I will get called many names. But by not responding to a simple question, I am requested to troll through a myriad of pages, I have heard of trying to defend the indefensible, but that is just plain ridiculous.

 

What do you expect from arm-chair warriors with zero skin in the game...

[DPIZZA]

 

 

Think you'll find most regular decent people condemn killing of women and children whoever does it and whoever are the victims.

 

It is false to suggest its anything for most but simply a natural reaction when innocents and those unable to defend themselves are killed. 

 

There is no defence no matter who the aggressor is, whatever race, whatever nation, whatever religion, it is wrong and disgusting to most. People do not like to see civilian casualties, period. 

 

It just happens to be Israel as the main aggressor  and the more people try to justify so many children and civilian injuries and deaths the less support Israel will continue to enjoy or indeed be surprised or sympathetic when there is blowback. This would be both unfortunate and sad but as we know all too well from history when a bully eventually gets taken down a peg or two then the usual reaction is one of apathy and people tend to be unsurprised and often even unsympathetic. In Israel's case not because most normal people are  Anti Semitic but because its simply wrong and they tend to have long  memories and understand what goes around often comes around.  

 

And yes if this were the British instead of Israel acting in this manner I would be ashamed of Britain and also outraged ( as I am for many things Britain has done and continues to at times ) whether I were myself British or considered Britain an ally. 

 

 

I agree with you 100% that killing of women and children or any other civilians is shocking and should be avoided.

Also most of the people of Israel would agree with you ( ofcourse there are the extremists on both sides, but they are a minority).

 

BUT the problem is that you fail to understand WHY citizens are being killed, and from there HOW to make it stop!

 

Hamas doesnt have the sensitivity that you and the rest of the western world has for human lives. 

It uses death of civilians for its advantage in a sick propaganda.

For Hamas, the more civilian casualties, the more shocking the better. 

Unfortunately, Hamas and News agencies share an interest - the more shocking the better the story.

 

Hamas uses your sensitivity to their advantage. They actually were counting on it!

They know pretty well that they cant defeat Israel with their rockets, they want to defeat it on the world opinion stage.

Otherwise, how can you explain that they refused all long lasting cease fires, broke all "Humanitarian cease fires", and were the one to start this conflict!

 

They dont think like me and you. For the extremist Muslim, to die as a shahid (martyr in the name of Islam) is the best thing they can aspire to.

All life here on earth come to serve only one goal, the life in the afterlife, and there, it is only heaven or hell.

So according to that twisted logic, ofcourse you want a sure ticket for reaching heaven (being a Shahid).

 

Hamas caused the conflict. It doesnt want to stop it. It hides behinds civilians.

It attacks from civilian centers to reach a win win situation: or Israel will sustain from hitting the target, or more civilians will die.

The more civilian dies, the more people will join their rank, the more Israel looses its status.

 

I dont expect you to believe me, do research on your own, but you can start with these:

 

The usual, "blame the victim" nonsense, morphing into the "its their religion" irrelevance. Anything to divert from the core issue of the Zionist land theft

 

The usual cry baby tactics, with a lot of emotion but no substance or any logic behind...

If you have any relevant comments concerning what i said, i will be happy to explain to you were your logic failed you...

Blame the victim is your strategy...

 

If their religion is irrelevant, so lets also consider history as irrelevant, or geographic as irrelevant, and then we can solve the conflict!

 

Ofcourse, the issue of building houses is a terrible crime, much more than kidnapping 3 young men and murdering them, or shooting thousands of rockets into Israel, or blowing up buses, etc... 

 

I never saw that the houses and WHOLE TOWNS in territories in Sinai desert, or even in Gaza strip posed a great barrier to peace once the Israelis decided to leave them, for a "chance" of peace...

[Bwanatickey]

Anti-Semite, oh yes Anti Semite, is just thinking and pondering your thoughts

an anti symmetric.

[Mossfinn]

 

You'll fit in well here, along with not answering simple questions,