New police crack down on motorists in CM.

[northernjohn]

I noticed a couple of days ago, I pulled up to the front of the lights on my wife's scooter, ahead of the white line, and noticed everyone else was behind the line staring at me.

Would be nice if the police acted on laws that actually matter, but I guess that's beyond their capabilities.

had the same thing this evening, first time ever in chiang mai. all locals pulled up behind the line, i did my usual thing of getting out of the way of trucks behind and going ahead of them, got stares. perhaps there's some communication gone around that i've missed.

Every one behind the line and you don't see that as a form of communication?

[CBR250]

But we cannot cherry-pick the ones that most concern us western-thinking drivers.

This seems to presuppose that there are good rules for non-Western-thinking drivers and an different set of driving rules for Western-thinking ones. The automobile machine is the same everywhere as is the system of roads, lights and signs.

Westerners might be more scrupulous on details of the laws and safety, but that doesn't mean there are different systems. Pretty much if a Westerner sees what he considers bad driving or unsafe practices, he's correct; it's not a matter of style or culture.

Sorry, I can't see where you have found some reason to conclude that I suggest, imply or state that there are different laws and rules for western and Thai drivers.

I do say there are different behaviours and attitudes to enforcement - that is, that there is a different "style or culture". For example, westerners usually think lane discipline is important, while Thais are far more flexible about the use of lanes - two lanes can become three (or more) with ease if there is a lot of vehicles and limited space. You, as a westerner, may consider that "bad driving" or "unsafe". Thai drivers see it as pragmatic. Another very welcome cultural difference is that Thais also seem far more accepting of the presence of other road users, and work together as road users to a far greater extent than in the competitive traffic snarls of home. I have not seen many instances of road rage here, and have seen numerous instances of traffic politeness that would be unheard of back home. So, there are indeed cultural differences in driving behaviour. Whether these differences are sometimes "bad" is open to debate. And in regard to some cirumstances I would probably agree, others not.

One point of contention we obviously have regards your claim that : "Pretty much if a Westerner sees what he considers bad driving or unsafe practices, he's correct'.

I disagree - most Western drivers are NOT great adjuticators of what constitutes good driving. They often think that good driving simply means following rules, as they lack the ability and experience to readily adapt to differing conditions.

[StevieH]

I noticed a couple of days ago, I pulled up to the front of the lights on my wife's scooter, ahead of the white line, and noticed everyone else was behind the line staring at me.

Would be nice if the police acted on laws that actually matter, but I guess that's beyond their capabilities.

had the same thing this evening, first time ever in chiang mai. all locals pulled up behind the line, i did my usual thing of getting out of the way of trucks behind and going ahead of them, got stares. perhaps there's some communication gone around that i've missed.

Every one behind the line and you don't see that as a form of communication?

nope. just saw it as unusual for thailand.

but great question nonetheless. sharp.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

^^ are you serious? The fatality rate is like 600% higher per capita in Thailand than for example the USA.

Thailand is world class dangerous road system.

Substandard enforcement? lack of education? something is causing Thailand to stand out poorly in this public safety issue.

FWIW the roads did seem safer today. Could just be a lot of people are staying off the roads for fear of being ticketed etc.

Let's hope this safety and enforcement trend continues.

[Chicog]

Another very welcome cultural difference is that Thais also seem far more accepting of the presence of other road users, and work together as road users to a far greater extent than in the competitive traffic snarls of home.

I once watched a madman in a pickup so drunk that he went up Thae Pae road from the bridge weaving from one side of the road to the other. I was sure he would hit something when he joined the traffic at the moat, but people backed off and let him carry on.

In his paralytic state he could have mown down a pedestrian or smashed into someone on a bike.

You think that "acceptance of the presence of other road users" is a good thing? No-one attempted to flag him down and stop him. (I was in a tuk tuk and the driver would do nothing).

I just call it insane tolerance of crap - to the point of being deadly - driving.

It isn't working together, it's just "You don't hit me and I won't hit you" and it works far more by luck than judgement - as the accident statistics demonstrate.

[intel4004]

I noticed a couple of days ago, I pulled up to the front of the lights on my wife's scooter, ahead of the white line, and noticed everyone else was behind the line staring at me.

Would be nice if the police acted on laws that actually matter, but I guess that's beyond their capabilities.

So you were the one in the wrong then......but not an important law in your eyes then?

No, and one I will not follow. On a scooter, you're safer pulling off in front of the cars than around them. Car drivers have a habit of not seeing you. I'll drive to the front thank you very much.

So you're one of the many pl@#kers providing an obstacle course as I try to cross safely at the traffic lights.

The streets need to be reclaimed for walkers and cyclists here. CM is fairly flat from what I've seen is a perfect city for cycling. It is also shocking at the number of street vendors that block footpaths, you can't bl@@dy walk anywhere without being forced on to the road, wondering if the next vehicle thundering up from behind is going to clip you or worse.

In the UK they have advanced stop boxes for cyclists, maybe they could do the same here for M/Cs or cyclists where it is safe to have them.

[Mapguy]

Saw a red-helmeted traffic policeman with camera at the Huay Kaeo T-intersection near Hillside 4. He was very efficient. First he'd stop the traffic; then he hopped out of his booth and took pictures of all motorcyclists both over the stop line and without helmets. Then back to the booth to change the traffic signal.

No one seemed to be smiling. Of course, he had to take a picture including the license plate. No one looked inclined to moon the camera.

[Mapguy]

Another very welcome cultural difference is that Thais also seem far more accepting of the presence of other road users, and work together as road users to a far greater extent than in the competitive traffic snarls of home.

I once watched a madman in a pickup so drunk that he went up Thae Pae road from the bridge weaving from one side of the road to the other. I was sure he would hit something when he joined the traffic at the moat, but people backed off and let him carry on.

In his paralytic state he could have mown down a pedestrian or smashed into someone on a bike.

You think that "acceptance of the presence of other road users" is a good thing? No-one attempted to flag him down and stop him. (I was in a tuk tuk and the driver would do nothing).

I just call it insane tolerance of crap - to the point of being deadly - driving.

It isn't working together, it's just "You don't hit me and I won't hit you" and it works far more by luck than judgement - as the accident statistics demonstrate.

As an upright citizen, why didn't you sprint to his truck, drag it to a stop, pull open the door, yank him to the pavement and hold him there immobile in a half-nelson until the police arrived ?

Confront a drunk driver? I don't think so, cowboy!

Edited July 22, 2014 by Mapguy

[intel4004]

While I'm in a moaning mood about the roads and driving. The number of times I see absolute muppets stopping at lights on a 3 lane dual carriageway waiting to turn right in the wrong (middle) lane thats for going straight on ONLY!!

I wouldn't mind it but its clearly marked with huge white arrows. This means all the cars have to squeeze over to the far left-hand lane to proceed. So shortsighted and mindless.

Even more amazing few people honk the offenders!

[MESmith]

Driving here is fun. Hope they don't spoil it like they did in the "west"

[MESmith]

While I'm in a moaning mood about the roads and driving. The number of times I see absolute muppets stopping at lights on a 3 lane dual carriageway waiting to turn right in the wrong (middle) lane thats for going straight on ONLY!!

I wouldn't mind it but its clearly marked with huge white arrows. This means all the cars have to squeeze over to the far left-hand lane to proceed. So shortsighted and mindless.

Even more amazing few people honk the offenders!

Go with the flow. 2 lanes can turn right into a 2 lane road. Left lane & hard shoulder for straight on. "On yer bike", sorry you haven't got one yet

[scottishjohn]

maybe this is why they are doing it;

[Tham1]

Driving here is fun. Hope they don't spoil it like they did in the "west"

what do you mean? perhaps you are referring to the fact that the UK for example has about 10% of the road deaths of Thailand per capita. The driving here is a disgrace.

[scottishjohn]

Driving here is fun. Hope they don't spoil it like they did in the "west"

Don't you mean the 'Wild west'

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Driving here is fun. Hope they don't spoil it like they did in the "west"

what do you mean? perhaps you are referring to the fact that the UK for example has about 10% of the road deaths of Thailand per capita. The driving here is a disgrace.

Most drivers in the UK, drive cars. Most drivers in Thailand drive scooters.

I'm thinking the deaths are more related to the type of transport, than policing of transport.

[Mapguy]

I noticed a couple of days ago, I pulled up to the front of the lights on my wife's scooter, ahead of the white line, and noticed everyone else was behind the line staring at me.

Would be nice if the police acted on laws that actually matter, but I guess that's beyond their capabilities.

So you were the one in the wrong then......but not an important law in your eyes then?

No, and one I will not follow. On a scooter, you're safer pulling off in front of the cars than around them. Car drivers have a habit of not seeing you. I'll drive to the front thank you very much.

I would like to suggest the preposterous notion to motorcyclists to stay in line in the correct lane. Just because the motorcycle is inexpensive and handy to get about and easier to manouver isn't license for the unruly and often dangerous samba done by riders in traffic --- and I am not talking about the very scary kamikaze speedsters who gamble their lives and those of others.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Mapguy

[northernjohn]

^^ are you serious? The fatality rate is like 600% higher per capita in Thailand than for example the USA.

Thailand is world class dangerous road system.

Substandard enforcement? lack of education? something is causing Thailand to stand out poorly in this public safety issue.

FWIW the roads did seem safer today. Could just be a lot of people are staying off the roads for fear of being ticketed etc.

Let's hope this safety and enforcement trend continues.

Well on the face of it what you say looks good. But that is only part of the story.

You did mention the dangerous road system. That is true.

But what you did not mention is that in case of a serious accident the first hour is the most critical time. How many people get educated medical attention with in the first hour?

Also that Thailand gets a lot of tourists who have never driven on a motor bike but because they are in Thailand they think they are experts.

Also in the Bangkok Post today it says that the rush hour traffic was reduced by around 25% in the morning and the afternoon high traffic hours. Not sure how that works but I am pretty sure the people are not choosing to stay home because of traffic checks. They have been going on since long before I got here.

There was a nice picture in the Bangkok post of the zebra zone filled with motor bikes so if a pedestrian wanted to cross the road they would have to walk on the traffic side no room in the Zebra zone. Must not have been one of those 90 intersections the Bangkok police are cracking down on.

They also said the vehicles in front of the white line was the most violated law and the second one was driving on the wrong side of the street.

[Mapguy]

Driving here is fun. Hope they don't spoil it like they did in the "west"

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? Hope so!

For those who think Thailand is turning into a "nanny state," I believe there are some cheap tickets available for the Eastern Ukraine. Have a good flight!

Edited July 22, 2014 by Mapguy

[northernjohn]

Another very welcome cultural difference is that Thais also seem far more accepting of the presence of other road users, and work together as road users to a far greater extent than in the competitive traffic snarls of home.

I once watched a madman in a pickup so drunk that he went up Thae Pae road from the bridge weaving from one side of the road to the other. I was sure he would hit something when he joined the traffic at the moat, but people backed off and let him carry on.

In his paralytic state he could have mown down a pedestrian or smashed into someone on a bike.

You think that "acceptance of the presence of other road users" is a good thing? No-one attempted to flag him down and stop him. (I was in a tuk tuk and the driver would do nothing).

I just call it insane tolerance of crap - to the point of being deadly - driving.

It isn't working together, it's just "You don't hit me and I won't hit you" and it works far more by luck than judgement - as the accident statistics demonstrate.

I think in a way they do consider others more than a westerner. They think nothing of it when some one pulls in front of them or passes them. Where as a lot of westerners think they have been singled out and the guy or gal was doing it to them personally. Where as to the Thai it is normal.

[uptheos]

I noticed a couple of days ago, I pulled up to the front of the lights on my wife's scooter, ahead of the white line, and noticed everyone else was behind the line staring at me.

Would be nice if the police acted on laws that actually matter, but I guess that's beyond their capabilities.

had the same thing this evening, first time ever in chiang mai. all locals pulled up behind the line, i did my usual thing of getting out of the way of trucks behind and going ahead of them, got stares. perhaps there's some communication gone around that i've missed.

Every one behind the line and you don't see that as a form of communication?

I've been behind the line for many years, it's never communicated anything to the Thai's (and I stared!)

[happysanook]

They are far too lazy to chase down the true danger. That is speeders and dangerous passings.

This other crap is nothing but for dough.

[FolkGuitar]

What really is the point of the scooters zigging and zagging up to the front of the line. It's not as if they are going to get anywhere that much sooner. Is it really worth risking someone else's life to shave 37 seconds off of a trip from Warrarote Market to the Canal Road? Because no matter what, that's about ALL one is going to save. You may not care about your own life and be willing to sacrifice it for those 37 seconds, but is it fair to chance sacrificing someone else?

Do the math. On a trip of 10km, just how much time will you save by speeding 20kph over the limit? Or even 30kph? Sure, if you're going 200km, speeding will get you there faster. Maybe even 10 minutes faster... That's important if you are ... are... are...

No, that's usually not really important at all, especially if it means putting others at risk. It's just selfish.

[Trujillo]

What really is the point of the scooters zigging and zagging up to the front of the line.

Aside from the natural propensity for any driver to try to get ahead, probably the advantage to everyone is that all the bikes get going as a group. Would you rather have them salted in and among the cars all along the headway to the intersection? As a matter of fact, there are some intersections around that have a "bay" in the front of the first white car line where bikes are supposed to wait for the light. This area is usually marked with Thai letters designating the area for bikes only. So some big thinkers have actually not only identified this area as where the bikes ought to wait, but have marked it as such.

[CBR250]

I noticed a couple of days ago, I pulled up to the front of the lights on my wife's scooter, ahead of the white line, and noticed everyone else was behind the line staring at me.

Would be nice if the police acted on laws that actually matter, but I guess that's beyond their capabilities.

So you were the one in the wrong then......but not an important law in your eyes then?

No, and one I will not follow. On a scooter, you're safer pulling off in front of the cars than around them. Car drivers have a habit of not seeing you. I'll drive to the front thank you very much.

I would like to suggest the preposterous notion to motorcyclists to stay in line in the correct lane. Just because the motorcycle is inexpensive and handy to get about and easier to manouver isn't license for the unruly and often dangerous samba done by riders in traffic --- and I am not talking about the very scary kamikaze speedsters who gamble their lives and those of others.

Yes, it is a preposterous notion. Thank god all of the motorcyclists will not listen. If they did then all of those tin cans would be waiting in line at each set of lights for far longer than they do now. and have nowhere to park when they arrive at their destination.

Be grateful for motorbikes, they minimise the jumble on the roads. Do you really want me out there on the roads and in the parking spaces in my 4.9 metre long pick-up when I go to the market? Is it not better for me (and others) that I am happy to ride my dinky little Wave that slips into small spaces between lines of traffic? And can then park on a footpath or together with 10 other scooters in the space of one car? And is it not better for those who are too old, too scared or just unable to ride motorbikes that many of us are prepared to do so? If the motorbike delivers me no advantage over cars as a road user - as you propose - I will use the truck. And will many others. Then you would be writing about the endless traffic jams.

[FolkGuitar]

What really is the point of the scooters zigging and zagging up to the front of the line.

Aside from the natural propensity for any driver to try to get ahead, probably the advantage to everyone is that all the bikes get going as a group. Would you rather have them salted in and among the cars all along the headway to the intersection? As a matter of fact, there are some intersections around that have a "bay" in the front of the first white car line where bikes are supposed to wait for the light. This area is usually marked with Thai letters designating the area for bikes only. So some big thinkers have actually not only identified this area as where the bikes ought to wait, but have marked it as such.

Nothing wrong with the bikes waiting in the front. Other countries have put in bike lanes on the side just so the bikes can get to the front. It's the zigging and zagging to get there that causes so many of the accidents. As a driver it doesn't make any difference to me if it is cars or bikes in front, beside, or behind me, providing they are following the rules of the road. It's only when one driver thinks the rules don't apply to him that the problems really occur. Here in Chiang Mai I prefer to drive a scooter, but I guess I just don't have that, as you call it, natural propensity for any driver to try to get ahead. It's not as if it's going to get me to my destination that much sooner. I'd rather take the extra 11 seconds and arrive relaxed.

[narkeddiver]

In terms of reducing accidents / fatalities (and potentially increasing income) I would have thought that the best thing to crack down on would be drink driving by far!

[northernjohn]

I noticed a couple of days ago, I pulled up to the front of the lights on my wife's scooter, ahead of the white line, and noticed everyone else was behind the line staring at me.

Would be nice if the police acted on laws that actually matter, but I guess that's beyond their capabilities.

had the same thing this evening, first time ever in chiang mai. all locals pulled up behind the line, i did my usual thing of getting out of the way of trucks behind and going ahead of them, got stares. perhaps there's some communication gone around that i've missed.

Every one behind the line and you don't see that as a form of communication?

I've been behind the line for many years, it's never communicated anything to the Thai's (and I stared!)

Whoopee.

One man behind the line and he thinks it is the same as every man behind the line.

For all we know there was no more room for you in front of the line.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

What really is the point of the scooters zigging and zagging up to the front of the line. It's not as if they are going to get anywhere that much sooner. Is it really worth risking someone else's life to shave 37 seconds off of a trip from Warrarote Market to the Canal Road? Because no matter what, that's about ALL one is going to save. You may not care about your own life and be willing to sacrifice it for those 37 seconds, but is it fair to chance sacrificing someone else?

Do the math. On a trip of 10km, just how much time will you save by speeding 20kph over the limit? Or even 30kph? Sure, if you're going 200km, speeding will get you there faster. Maybe even 10 minutes faster... That's important if you are ... are... are...

No, that's usually not really important at all, especially if it means putting others at risk. It's just selfish.

In a 10Km journey around CM, I usually save 5-10 minutes (Vs car).

No speeding, plenty of weaving, and it's fun.

[intel4004]

While I'm in a moaning mood about the roads and driving. The number of times I see absolute muppets stopping at lights on a 3 lane dual carriageway waiting to turn right in the wrong (middle) lane thats for going straight on ONLY!!

I wouldn't mind it but its clearly marked with huge white arrows. This means all the cars have to squeeze over to the far left-hand lane to proceed. So shortsighted and mindless.

Even more amazing few people honk the offenders!

Go with the flow. 2 lanes can turn right into a 2 lane road. Left lane & hard shoulder for straight on. "On yer bike", sorry you haven't got one yet

Not correct, read my post again. The lanes are clearly marked as to where you should be depending on your direction. At this junction anyway. I know its the law of the jungle here but hopefully for not much longer.

Maybe some lives will be saved and I hope the crackdown continues on the really poor driving. We see it every day here so many drivers only see what's in front of them and no awareness what's around them. Some of you may enjoy this relaxed Thai attitude but how many lives has it cost so far?

I do have to laugh though when I arrived here in June I was appaled at the poor driving now I've noticed I'm beginning to drive like a Thai. Got to stop IT!

Sent from my C6833 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[naboo]

Hmm, someone been here a month telling us how it should be.