OPINION: The right kind of long-timer

[Issangeorge]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

If they want real teachers they will have to pay real salaries.

You're right. And by forcing all the faux teachers home, they'll be forced to pay for and get real teachers.

I don't belive that. There are plenty of teachers from the Philippines and other countries that would love to work here for those low salaries. And many of them are also better qualified

They may be better qualified, but most of them cannot speak proper English, so they get paid what they are worth.

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[gamini]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

I agree. But real English teachers who speak good English and not hard to understand regional dialects.

[Tomtomtom69]

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Sorry that you are offended by reality, but it's the same everywhere when dealing with immigrants.

You want to go to America or Britain or Australia? If you are a PhD, doctor or millionaire the door is open (wide open). PhDs are the one category of immigrant that can sponsor themselves into many countries, including the above.

High school diploma or less, or a BA in an non-marketable field? Please stay home. Thailand is not the first to do this and will not be the last.

I doubt very many foreign PhDs would consider Thailand as a place to live and work. They would be ridiculed by nearly everyone back home and nobody would think that they would be able to make a career here. Sure, there are some foreign lecturers at universities here who like the easy life and the students who highly respect teachers (that's part of the culture) but in that case, 50,000-100,000 Baht a month at the very best is all one can hope for salary wise. Opportunities for advancement would be far and few. I know a couple of foreign researchers/lecturers at Chiang Mai Univ. and they are all here because of Thai wives/lifestyle etc. not for the money. They all live very modest lives and salary wise they'd be considered to be barely above poverty levels when converted to AUD/USD/EUR back in their home countries. Pretty embarrassing when you consider these people are considered to be experts in their fields and have Master's Degrees and extensive experience or PhDs.

Thailand also lags behind in research. There are almost no incentives for any foreigner to come and study here - I've never heard of Thai government scholarships for foreign students, except in a few exceptional circumstances but they do nothing to bring that talent over here for any longer than it takes to finish their graduate degrees. Thailand does not have a policy of attracting highly skilled foreigners - all they care about is exploiting migrant laborers who by definition are low skilled and a few (very few) highly skilled foreigners can come in temporarily, 1 year at a time (or 2 years for BOI registered businesses) until maybe, one day they are suddenly no longer wanted or needed. In almost all cases any factory, any larger business in Thailand has no more than 1-2 westerners/other foreigners working in the whole company even when there are hundreds or more employees and thus even the current local/foreigner ratio wouldn't be exceeded - something which is very strange from the perspective of someone who's used to a much more diverse workforce back home or even in Singapore/Hong Kong.

I read recently right here on Thai visa of a Thai who had lived and studied in the USA for a long time and was offered a salary of lousy 89,000 Baht a month for quite a challenging position with a high deal of responsibility I believe it was in the manufacturing industry or something. Needless to say he didn't take the job despite the prospect of being closer to family.

Thailand is thus far, far away from being an immigrant receiving country. China is drafting policies to attract some highly skilled expats and with their increasing standards of living, China is actually not a bad place for a PhD to consider moving to. But Thailand? It's good as a retirement destination and for holidays but that's about it. Very few people in the west are going to be sad if they can't easily move to Thailand or live in Thailand long term.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[toooa]

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This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

By "we" I'm assuming you mean anyone who's me, or people who might fit my own subjective criteria for worthiness. Little bit arrogant aren't we eh?

Bummer for all the upcountry and poorer schools who used to be able to just scrape by with "riff raff teachers" that would accept lower wages.... We'll I guess that's the end of that then....after all, if you're a "real English teacher" then a school in upper Isaan won't be able to afford you. And you certainly won't be wasting your valuable time there.

And good point about the taxes....after all isn't this what it's all about? Money.... like everything when you but scratch the surface. Ideally no foreigners at all would be let in, but if we have to let them in, at least we can try to get more money per capita....don't want them coming along and messing up the gene pool or spreading that terrible "thinking" thing they do.... but if they've got money that'll do.... money trumps everything.

[Sarana]

I feel I have stayed in Thailand long enough and if Immigration issues the stamps and visas they should not complain about it afterwards like they did to me in India. They should also plainly advertise all the different types of visa available apart from tourist. Anyway for me now the feeling is mutual.

[Boatfreak]

OK Maybe a wrong example then altough I wonder why they are any welders left here since the rest of the world is looking for them . But OK let's forget the welders then but do not tell me that Thailand has exactly what they need in every profession because that would be the first country in the world to do so then.

Implement, as in many countries, "special skills" permit for what the country really needs. It is easy to say JUST get a work permit, not all companies can comply with the requirements such as 4 Thais per farang etc. Some skills are really needed, I tink about shipbuilding because tha is my branche but I am sure the same applies for welders, nurses, programmers,teachers...as these professions are needed all over the world. Special Skills permit is the answer.

Well actually there are "special skills" permit its called a WP

BTW there are a few shipbuilding yards in Thailand, and the proper Thai welders are some of the best in the world, not talking about what the average TV posters see's sitting on a bar stool watching a Somchai rice farmer burning electrodes with sunglasses on..

Welding is one area where Thailand doesnt need "special skills" anything and in fact Thai welders are sought all over the world, and some of them which would make an "English" teacher very jealous indeed with money they are earning...

Edited July 22, 2014 by Boatfreak

[atyclb]

I certainly agree with the idea of getting all the useless, broke-ass, flip-flop wearing sex-pests out of Thailand and back to a coal mine where they belong.

There should be no one size fits all for allowing folks to stay - good recognizes good - it should be as simple as that.

The fact is in thailand, thai society and microcosms like pattaya theres someone/something for everyone. thais certainly allowed pattaya to blossom with attractions for ALL. the reason so many from all ends of the spectrum are attracted is thai society. if society becomes largely moral and one of integrity then yo will see a drastic change in demographics of expats. perhaps is the thai entertainment sector slumps enough the immigration rules will be relaxed. i doubt the expat demographic in japan is similar to tat of thailand. imo expats from all ends of the spectrum should be able to stay in thailand as long as they are not damaging society.

[mikemellow]

So, some guy who is successful enough to have made it by 40, to be wealthy beyond the imagination of the author of this Phuket news drivel, to be smarter and richer and contribute more to Thailand than a hundred of the ilk of this author or a truck full of immigration office nazis, who happens to be too young for a retirement visa, who spends more on hotels than this dumb author can imagine, is automatically feckless because he has too many stamps in his passport?

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So someone with wealth beyond imagination ... at age 40 can just put 10 million baht or roughly 300,000 $US into a Thai money market fund for the next 10 years and cash out at age 50 -- what's the big deal for someone with millions of dollars?

Good move put $300,000 US in Thailand for 10 years when the constitution can be shredded on a dime...... maybe the banks will be nationalized!! who knows.....do you really trust your money in a thai bank?

[ericthai]

The entire work permit process needs to be overhauled. Thailand's AEC neighbors like Malaysia and Singapore have it sorted. Most companies must send their workers out of country to obtain work visas. This is due to a ridiculous invested capital requirement enforced at Chaeng Wattana. No company wants to report anything but minimal invested capital, because it is taxed at a very high rate. At Chaeng Wattana, there is a process for converting tourist or visa on arrivals to Non-B's. However, because the immigration officers are looking for a handout, they try to use the invested capital requirement as an obstacle to conversion. Chaeng Wattana looks at how many work visas the company has been issued, and then the amount of declared invested capital, and then almost always denies conversion. If you change jobs, you immediately must exit the country (I think the new rule is you have 7 days - how generous!). So, you fly out, go to a neighbor country embassy, and get a new Non-B. What a waste of money and resources! Probably the most common employment for foreign workers, who are not migrant workers, is teaching. Anything they can do to make the work permit process easier on the schools is probably good. But, there are some foreign workers who really contribute to the Thai economy. Those are the foreign workers who make their companies more profitable, allowing them to grow and hire more Thai workers. Many companies need foreign workers for their expertise. It makes the companies more efficient and more competitive. Thailand needs to stop biting the hand that feeds it. Clamping down on border runners is ok, but the country really needs to modernize its foreign worker regulations.

Some of what you are saying is incorrect. If you lose your job and you are on an extension to stay then yes you have 7 days to leave. If you have a Non-B you do not have to leave and get a new non-B the one you have is still valid. As for them checking the registered capital, how many work permits etc this is the rules. You need to have 2 million registered capital for each work permit. Also they are not always denied I have never had a problem getting my B visa or work permit. Getting a work permit is not difficult. You need to submit the correct paper work and pay 3000B and once everything is checked out it is issued. The issue with teachers getting a work permit is the schools don't want to do it. With the new changes that will change things. At first it is going to be difficult for teachers and schools but in the end the schools are going to have to do the right thing and then with limited amount of qualified teachers wages will go up. There are already allot of expats working in top positions in foreign owned companies along with a good amount of engineers. I worked as an industrial engineer in Thailand for many years before opening my own company. The Japanese I think have the most expats living in Thailand working in upper management.

The regulations for working here as a foreigner is not really that difficult if you have a legitimate company.

[Alwyn]

I guess the poster is a Thai? He equates wealthy with being a high quality person...Does he not think that some wealthy people are criminals? Or doesn't it bother him, just as long as they are wealthy, like Gary Glitter, and as such become hi-so in his mind?

[Kasset Tak]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Would you work for 15-30 000 Baht a month? If so then I know many schools that would hire you!

[anselpixel]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Would you work for 15-30 000 Baht a month? If so then I know many schools that would hire you!

Teaching English in Thailand is mostly handled by Thais who cannot speak English.

The rest of it on both sides of the issue is a racket: TESL teachers make no money and often have zero protection from the schools who promise work visas and never manage to get them, while Thai teachers of English speakers get the ax all the time for running "visa mills," whether that's true or not.

I spent more than a thousand USD to enroll at one of the country's largest universities when I first came, and in spite of the fact that 90% of us showed up for class and had a genuine interest in learning Thai language, a political cleansing totally removed the program from existence.

I never even got a refund for the nine months of missed classes.

Don't assume anything about the "rules."

[Kasset Tak]

Look folks.

It's about the cost-benefit equation that we all (implicitly) go through.

Is it worth going through the immigration, work permit, and reporting hassles to be able to stay here?

Most of the successful ex-pat residents have answered that question, and you will hardly ever see them on this Forum.

Those that feel done-hard by Thailand's immigation and Ministry of Labor have a self-defeatist mindset.

Sorry to say but there are more instances than just Immigration and Ministry of Labor that can mess up your life...

MOE and OVEC have approved of me working as a teacher. I have worked on several projects and research projects for MOE, OVEC and Ministry of Agriculture and I have been approved by TCT in the past. But with TCT's new rules I'm not approved as a teacher any,more as I don't have a BA in Education but BA in Business Administration.

[arisaje]

guess some people are just perfect and contribute unknown quality's to Thailand ...the key word being unknown

I for one welcome the day IMMIGRATION will be actually sorted out and they treat people with respect instead of suspected criminals...it all starts with good day how may i help you ...not what you want ..passport now! ...as happened to me yesterday

Hey Terry P, well that could be said for any immigration department in the world......try the USA and Canada! got to be the most miserable immigration officers anywhere and so rude it almost makes you wonder why you flew 10hrs++ to go there.

[AsienExpat]

I been through the progress of open a company, getting a WP and Business Visa in this country all by myself. I can tell you it's not a walk in the park.

How can Thailand be attractive for anyone to start a new life here or expanding your business if you are not a "big investor" or a high skilled engineer hired by an local/international company.

The options are limited. Maybe after all this is really just a holiday destination or retirement place. I don't know...

Thailand was long time a perfect holiday destination, cause everything was, like it was.... since they start to chance everything, the tourist figures drop. And still i can't see and end of all this stuff. I have the feeling their is much less smiling. The times of mai pen rai are maybe over. But if they are over, one of the reasons why many foreigners fall in love with this country disappears. Stern unsmilingly officialdom the most westeners have in their homecountrys enough. Every day the rules becomes tougher. Today i tried to open a bank account, even their are now new rules. A Non-Immi dont seems enough in this times, you need also a certificate of residence just to open it. No smile in the bank, just the words "New rules, you have to go to immigration first to get this document". Quo Vadis, thailand?

[leighd7]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

How can anyone be a proper English teacher if they not English. that would short cut the list down of proper English.

[JLCrab]

So, some guy who is successful enough to have made it by 40, to be wealthy beyond the imagination of the author of this Phuket news drivel, to be smarter and richer and contribute more to Thailand than a hundred of the ilk of this author or a truck full of immigration office nazis, who happens to be too young for a retirement visa, who spends more on hotels than this dumb author can imagine, is automatically feckless because he has too many stamps in his passport?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

So someone with wealth beyond imagination ... at age 40 can just put 10 million baht or roughly 300,000 $US into a Thai money market fund for the next 10 years and cash out at age 50 -- what's the big deal for someone with millions of dollars?

Good move put $300,000 US in Thailand for 10 years when the constitution can be shredded on a dime...... maybe the banks will be nationalized!! who knows.....do you really trust your money in a thai bank?

That's the deal.

[enuff said]

guess some people are just perfect and contribute unknown quality's to Thailand ...the key word being unknown

I for one welcome the day IMMIGRATION will be actually sorted out and they treat people with respect instead of suspected criminals...it all starts with good day how may i help you ...not what you want ..passport now! ...as happened to me yesterday

Hey Terry P, well that could be said for any immigration department in the world......try the USA and Canada! got to be the most miserable immigration officers anywhere and so rude it almost makes you wonder why you flew 10hrs++ to go there.

People who complain about Thai Imm. really have not been around.

I was questioned for 20 min in Aussie (I am from US) about why I had been in Thailand while they went through my devices looking for bootleg whatever.

In this age of piracy and terrorism, terryp is living in a dream world.

'nuff said

~

[LivinLOS]

So, some guy who is successful enough to have made it by 40, to be wealthy beyond the imagination of the author of this Phuket news drivel, to be smarter and richer and contribute more to Thailand than a hundred of the ilk of this author or a truck full of immigration office nazis, who happens to be too young for a retirement visa, who spends more on hotels than this dumb author can imagine, is automatically feckless because he has too many stamps in his passport?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

So someone with wealth beyond imagination ... at age 40 can just put 10 million baht or roughly 300,000 $US into a Thai money market fund for the next 10 years and cash out at age 50 -- what's the big deal for someone with millions of dollars?

Good move put $300,000 US in Thailand for 10 years when the constitution can be shredded on a dime...... maybe the banks will be nationalized!! who knows.....do you really trust your money in a thai bank?

No however invested in a government bond is a lot more secure.

I nearly did the investor visa at 3 mil, after my first wife died.. At that value it make an ok proposition.. At 10mil the loss of the time value of money makes it a poor cost benefit proposition.

[JLCrab]

If one is sufficiently wealthy and wants to stay in Thailand for 10 years or more until age 50 then one has to take into account the lost time value of money on the roughly 300K $US vs. peace-of-mind t-bills, money market or otherwise.

and if the time value of money lost for those xx years is a big hindrance then you aren't sufficiently wealthy.

[me313]

"Liberalization" is the catchword for absolute greed, a credo which has been spread around the world in global financial policies and in developing countries what that really means is all investors are welcome, especially avaricious, low quality crocodile types of human beings, which equates to "quality" in this country. This is an even worse "rat race" than in any Western country because unlike other countries where industrialization has been fettered by labor unions and human rights organizations, contracts including health care, insurance and a lifestyle that is above cheap slavery, here it's all about squeezing every bit out of workers so the wealthy so-called "elite" can have "quality" business partnerships with unsavory but well-funded investors. Now that any movement for poor people's rights has been entirely crushed in the name of "Democracy", foreign Investors with carte blanche to exploit is really the key to this new immigration policy, a plan that's been in the works for a long time, it's investors paradise here now. Some people might even venture to call this a post-colonialist paradise, and it appears that Thai people are happy to serve with big smiles. It's low quality human behavior on all fronts, with polished glittery new buildings and "luxury" living space for foreigners to relax in, pushing poor Thais further into the inland rural areas. All opposition crushed, now all can smile and smile while the rest are silenced. Forget about Buddhism as some esoteric salvation from the stress of the West, because many Thai people covertly put dead fetuses adorned with gold up on their alters and pretends it's homage to Buddha, all covered in gold, ornamented with flowers, hoping for wealth at any price, so forget about the soul. Also, forget about the fake smiles being anything but gratuitous greed and expectation of reward to entice investors, unsavory low-quality human beings, to remain as long as possible, to form partnerships to build condos, hotels, chains, sweatshop factories, to induce more 3rd world slavery, to conduct more business.

"...we look forward to a liberalization of business regulations for higher-quality foreigners."

More money = higher quality. That's offensive. At least the writer is upfront about it.

Edited July 23, 2014 by me313

[LivinLOS]

If one is sufficiently wealthy and wants to stay in Thailand for 10 years or more until age 50 then one has to take into account the lost time value of money on the roughly 300K $US vs. peace-of-mind t-bills, money market or otherwise.

and if the time value of money lost for those xx years is a big hindrance then you aren't sufficiently wealthy.

But people who have even moderate wealth are used to making value / reward decisions.. Is the reliability of the M5 worth having over the excitement of the 911 or should I simply go for the refinement of the SL..

I know many multi millionaires, and all of them consider their investments and acquisitions quite cautiously, in fact I would say they spend more time considering these things than the guy without wealth who goes and and blows it on a new ford on credit. Its this calculated mindset that generally got them into that bracket.

Simply put, the time value of 10 mil, doesnt make a good value proposition compared to other options (elite) for what it gives you. At 3 mil it may have done.

[JLCrab]

That's the offer by the Thai government. Take it or leave it.

[kinmaew]

Bloody Hell are they for real am I actually reading this? Seriously if they are serious I think its a good thing how else can you build up a country this may be the first step of better things to come for Thailand, its people and for the rest us.

[wilcopops]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

totally facile post

[timewilltell]

Written by a PC liberal that loves "diversity"...jess I hate that word alng with cohesion, vibrant and numerous others that are spouted off by that brigade. The laws do not need watering down so Thailand becomes cohesive and diverse....they need strengthing so the culture is maintained.

I think Thailand is trying to change its culture unless you mean a selective culture that filters out the extensive bad elements like corruption, becoming involved in politics for personal gain like taking public land for yourself, populist political policies designed with corruption in mind, deceiving so on.

The laws do need strengthening, in fact they need complete overhaul from statutes to procedure since they are wantonly out of date and abused by lawyers, criminals and cheats for immoral advantage. Thailand does needs to shake itself out of its aged self-delusion and open its eyes to the modern world with all its opportunities to become as great as it dreams. Dreams need action to succeed and speed of implementation is a critical factor in the success of most business ventures which applies to nations too. With ASEAN on its doorstep embracing valuable people into its nation will benefit it far more than isolating and treating them with contempt.

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[JLCrab]

Great. In golf, it's called a mulligan.

[ingvar]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

Would that real English teacher be from Preston, Lancaster perhaps?

[larsjohnsson]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

If they want real teachers they will have to pay real salaries.

You're right. And by forcing all the faux teachers home, they'll be forced to pay for and get real teachers.

I don't belive that. There are plenty of teachers from the Philippines and other countries that would love to work here for those low salaries. And many of them are also better qualified

They may be better qualified, but most of them cannot speak proper English, so they get paid what they are worth.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yehh like the proper English in Scotland and north of England

[samran]

This is a good thing.

Get a work permit and work visa. Pay your bloody taxes. Then you'll have no problem.

This visa run thing has gone on long enough. One of the good things that will come out of this is we will have less 'teachers' now. We really don't need all this riff raff 'teachers' whose only qualification is speaking the language and being white. High time this country hired real English teachers.

If they want real teachers they will have to pay real salaries.

Schools are going to find it harder not to do so now aren't they? This is a good thing, not a bad thing for the humble English teacher.