Thailand must embark on Mandela's road to democracy

[Kanthralak 1]

Just for the record, Nelson Mandela was a terrorist before he became a freedom fighter. There is a very thin line between a terrorist and a freedom fighter.

You've got Mr Mandela's history wrong. He was never a terrorist (Only branded so by the Apartheid regime) He did however become a freedom fighter, blowing up a few transformers and electric pylons, before he became a political prisoner.

He was a gracious forgiving man, unfortunately there are to few of his kind in the world today.

[Kanthralak 1]

Can we stop having an orgasm over the terrorist mandella. He bombed many innocent people, promoted violence, was caught with land mines, explosives etc. That is why he was sent to prison. He was offered to be release many times if he renounce violence but he never did. Mandella and his wife Minnie encouraged necklacing, the burning to death with a tire, fellow blacks who opposed the ANC. mandella also sang songs encouraging the killing of white people. Google it if you don’t believe it. His legacy in South Africa is 50% unemployment, One white farming family is killed on average every day- in a very barbaric way. The once prosperous country is now reverting back to the jungle without white guidance and is the murder and rape capitol of the world.

Actually his ex-wifes name is Winnie and its spelt Mandela, and Uncle Nelson never sang songs about killing whites, that was Peter Macabe (spelling) who coined the phrase "one settler, one bullet and in recent time that loonie Jojo has picked up the mantle and believe he has been expelled from the ANC for his rhetoric

Winnies necklacing campaign had nothing to do with the "political struggle" that was more to do with a "turf war" involving the Mandela "football team" her body guards and she should have been convicted for ordering the murder of Stompie Sepe (spelling) but there was nothing political in that, and while that was going on, Mandela himself was in jail effectively in solitary confinement on Robben Island and understand he hadnt had contact with his future EX wife for some years, so he could hardly be encouraging necklacing anyone in Soweto at the time

Mandela never actually bombed anyone, he was trying to bomb power lines and infrastructure when he was caught, one of the "gentleman" who did bomb civilians, "Magoo's bar in Durban" was a guy by the name of Robert McBride, who became an MP and was later done for gun running while a standing MP.

one of the few facts you have got correct, was that yes Mandela was offered freedom on a few occasions if he renounced the arm struggle via "MK" but declined

Yes you are correct on farmer being killed everyday, unemployment figures and the murder rape Captial of the world, but you are attributing things to Mandela in your post that he didnt do

so one suggests you should google things before going off on a diatribe.

please understand I am no supporter of the ANC, and no supporter of what MK was getting up to either, but at the same time, try and get your facts at least close to being right, it seems at lot of your facts you have presented have come out out the AWB handbook...

Soutpeel, your profile pic makes me hungry. I miss the Potjiekos.

I can vouch for Meneer Soutpeel. Dana take a hike.

[star kicker]

unfortunately, like most countries, thailand doesnt have a genuinely forward thinking charismatic leader who puts others before himself.

a lawyer friend of mine worked on the truth and reconciliation initiative a few years ago and resigned when she realised it was a whitewash, a façade and complete waste of time

[Soutpeel]

Suthep is the Mandela of Thailand.

They both may be criminal in the past, but they ended up as good men and leader of their counties.

Except for the small fact that one fought against a minority that believed that the majority were too stupid to vote, and the other fought for such a minority.

Exactly.Mandela stood for all the ideals that thugs like Suthep hold in contempt.And shame on Anand for his appalling article.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes and no, originally the ANC and by default the SA communist party wanted a communist state in South Africa, (ie visions of Zimbabwe today) and to this day within the ANC, there are still some of the old school which want SA to be a "socialist/communist" type goverment, its no coincidence that even today they still refer to each other as "comrade",

The ANC took a "marketing" decision to distance themsleves from the SA communist party as they were looking for support in the US/UK and to be labelled a communist organistation, certainly in the US was a big no no, if you wanted support. Joe Slovo, who was the chairman of the SA communist party also sat on the executive board on the ANC, which gives you an idea of the relationship, so please dont suggest Mandela's "ideal" was all for a "democratic" system at certain points in his career he most certainly wasnt, that only came later

Suthep is no more a "thug" than Mandela was at certain points in his life, so please take your red glasses off

[jayboy]

Suthep is the Mandela of Thailand.

They both may be criminal in the past, but they ended up as good men and leader of their counties.

Except for the small fact that one fought against a minority that believed that the majority were too stupid to vote, and the other fought for such a minority.

Exactly.Mandela stood for all the ideals that thugs like Suthep hold in contempt.And shame on Anand for his appalling article.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes and no, originally the ANC and by default the SA communist party wanted a communist state in South Africa, (ie visions of Zimbabwe today) and to this day within the ANC, there are still some of the old school which want SA to be a "socialist/communist" type goverment, its no coincidence that even today they still refer to each other as "comrade",

The ANC took a "marketing" decision to distance themsleves from the SA communist party as they were looking for support in the US/UK and to be labelled a communist organistation, certainly in the US was a big no no, if you wanted support. Joe Slovo, who was the chairman of the SA communist party also sat on the executive board on the ANC, which gives you an idea of the relationship, so please dont suggest Mandela's "ideal" was all for a "democratic" system at certain points in his career he most certainly wasnt, that only came later

Suthep is no more a "thug" than Mandela was at certain points in his life, so please take your red glasses off

Once again apologists for reaction can only smear talk about "red glasses" when their opinion is challenged.I see Abhisit has criticised certain aspects of the proposed Charter, does he have 'red glasses" too?

Returning to the subject your opinion is flawed, indeed absurd.Certainly Mandela has strong links to the Communist Party and was profoundly sceptical of received wisdom, particularly when it emenated from the West.In the case of the Lockerbie bombing he made himself distictly awkward in Eurpean and American circles - though I suspect he will be proven right by history.I never suggested Mandela was a Western liberal.The comparison with Suthep makes no sense.Suthep is a corrupt thug campaigning for the vested interests of an established minority elite and protected by the latter.Mandela was a champion for the majority.It's rather a crucial difference.,

[Soutpeel]

Once again apologists for reaction can only smear talk about "red glasses" when their opinion is challenged.I see Abhisit has criticised certain aspects of the proposed Charter, does he have 'red glasses" too?

Returning to the subject your opinion is flawed, indeed absurd.Certainly Mandela has strong links to the Communist Party and was profoundly sceptical of received wisdom, particularly when it emenated from the West.In the case of the Lockerbie bombing he made himself distictly awkward in Eurpean and American circles - though I suspect he will be proven right by history.I never suggested Mandela was a Western liberal.The comparison with Suthep makes no sense.Suthep is a corrupt thug campaigning for the vested interests of an established minority elite and protected by the latter.Mandela was a champion for the majority.It's rather a crucial difference.,

but your are wearing your red shirt dear boy, in your comments all you had to add to "Suthep is a thug" was that "he is a facist", which was the stock party line coming out the red faithful on TV over many weeks not so long ago, the funny thing is Suthep has disappeared off the scene now and has become a monk... he hasnt attempted to set up a facist state in Thailand with himself as the El Duce of Thailand, as was suggested by the red faithful, he did exactly what he said he would do... get the Shins off the scene and step back

Funny how you label people corrupt thugs without any real foundation, the National party labelled Mandela a terrorist at one point in time as well.

your response to my post, is perfect example of why there will be no real reconcilliation in Thailand as a country, as your simplist view on all things is one side is good the other bad and the start calling people names and labelling them.

Without a sincere acceptance and belief that things need to change in Thailand and people are prepared to put down the guns and start talking to each other and not resort to labelling and name calling all the time, as Mandela and De Klerk decided to do to move SA forward, things will never change in Thailand.

lest not forget, although Mandela is held up as the shining light of change in SA, there was another person sitting on the other side of this by the name of FW de Klerk, who realised/decided it was time to talk as there had been too much bloodshed, and there needed to be an sincere effort to change the political landscape in SA and in fact he was labelled a traitor by a lot of his own people in SA at the time ie the Afrikaaners, because of what he intended to do, but none the less he went ahead.

as to the last part of your post, although not Mandela directly, but his legacy, the current ANC goverment is currently doing exactly what you have accused Suthep of doing

"campaigning for the vested interests of an established minority elite" except the minority elite these days is not white, but a minority group of black "elites" who have no interest in the "majority" and onlly have an interest in themselves and lining their own pockets... bit like the your comic messiah goat herder and his sister...

People may have the right to put their names on a bit of paper and cast their vote in SA these days, but the same people 20 odd years on are still poor, hungry, cant send their kids to school to get an education

[jayboy]

Once again apologists for reaction can only smear talk about "red glasses" when their opinion is challenged.I see Abhisit has criticised certain aspects of the proposed Charter, does he have 'red glasses" too?

Returning to the subject your opinion is flawed, indeed absurd.Certainly Mandela has strong links to the Communist Party and was profoundly sceptical of received wisdom, particularly when it emenated from the West.In the case of the Lockerbie bombing he made himself distictly awkward in Eurpean and American circles - though I suspect he will be proven right by history.I never suggested Mandela was a Western liberal.The comparison with Suthep makes no sense.Suthep is a corrupt thug campaigning for the vested interests of an established minority elite and protected by the latter.Mandela was a champion for the majority.It's rather a crucial difference.,

but your are wearing your red shirt dear boy, in your comments all you had to add to "Suthep is a thug" was that "he is a facist", which was the stock party line coming out the red faithful on TV over many weeks not so long ago, the funny thing is Suthep has disappeared off the scene now and has become a monk... he hasnt attempted to set up a facist state in Thailand with himself as the El Duce of Thailand, as was suggested by the red faithful, he did exactly what he said he would do... get the Shins off the scene and step back

Funny how you label people corrupt thugs without any real foundation, the National party labelled Mandela a terrorist at one point in time as well.

your response to my post, is perfect example of why there will be no real reconcilliation in Thailand as a country, as your simplist view on all things is one side is good the other bad and the start calling people names and labelling them.

Without a sincere acceptance and belief that things need to change in Thailand and people are prepared to put down the guns and start talking to each other and not resort to labelling and name calling all the time, as Mandela and De Klerk decided to do to move SA forward, things will never change in Thailand.

lest not forget, although Mandela is held up as the shining light of change in SA, there was another person sitting on the other side of this by the name of FW de Klerk, who realised/decided it was time to talk as there had been too much bloodshed, and there needed to be an sincere effort to change the political landscape in SA and in fact he was labelled a traitor by a lot of his own people in SA at the time ie the Afrikaaners, because of what he intended to do, but none the less he went ahead.

as to the last part of your post, although not Mandela directly, but his legacy, the current ANC goverment is currently doing exactly what you have accused Suthep of doing

"campaigning for the vested interests of an established minority elite" except the minority elite these days is not white, but a minority group of black "elites" who have no interest in the "majority" and onlly have an interest in themselves and lining their own pockets... bit like the your comic messiah goat herder and his sister...

People may have the right to put their names on a bit of paper and cast their vote in SA these days, but the same people 20 odd years on are still poor, hungry, cant send their kids to school to get an education

Suthep is without doubt a corrupt thug, and to pretend otherwise is dishonest.He has lost his significance now because, like a rabid dog, he has served the purpose of his masters.The word "fascist" is overused but there's little doubt his street mobbery showed some fascist characteristics.

Of course all sides in Thailand should be discussing how to defuse the political stalemate.I wonder why that's not happening now.

I agree De Klerk's contribution.He had the wisdom to understand that the minirity elite would have to compromise and give ground, or they would lose everyhing.His wisdom has not been replicated in Thailand.

South African democracy though an improvement on the Apartheid regime is work in progress.It has not like some other countries been bludgeoned into extinction.

[Soutpeel]

Suthep is without doubt a corrupt thug, and to pretend otherwise is dishonest.He has lost his significance now because, like a rabid dog, he has served the purpose of his masters.The word "fascist" is overused but there's little doubt his street mobbery showed some fascist characteristics.

and there you go again...

Suthep.... "corrupt thug" "rabid dog" "Fascist"...... if his actions over the last few months serve as a catalyst for real and sincere change in Thailand then so be it ,because that is exactly what is needed, fundamental change in Thailand, not lip service as has been given for many years in Thailand, only time will tell, but to date he has done everything he said he would do.

[Seastallion]

Suthep is without doubt a corrupt thug, and to pretend otherwise is dishonest.He has lost his significance now because, like a rabid dog, he has served the purpose of his masters.The word "fascist" is overused but there's little doubt his street mobbery showed some fascist characteristics.

and there you go again...

Suthep.... "corrupt thug" "rabid dog" "Fascist"...... if his actions over the last few months serve as a catalyst for real and sincere change in Thailand then so be it ,because that is exactly what is needed, fundamental change in Thailand, not lip service as has been given for many years in Thailand, only time will tell, but to date he has done everything he said he would do.

To be fair, Machiavellian "the end justifies the means" does not always ring true. Albeit something good came of Suthep's efforts (and some of the good was coincidental and no credit to him), it does not change the fact that Suthep is an uncouth, unscrupulous, and un-needed person.

Regardless of what his efforts produced (catalysed to be more accurate), he is not a desirable fellow to have in any leadership role in Thailand.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Seastallion