More rice missing from Thai warehouses

[robblok]

You are not thinking clearly... who said the high quality rice was there in the first place..... You can administrate bad quality rice as good quality rice. It would indeed not be practical to move rice in and out and replacing it.

Well, then that would mean that they either had millions of fake farmers to pay, or farmers were being paid for rice that didn't exist.

How would that get paid out of the agricultural bank without a receipt from a mill? This con only works if you don't involve farmers. The farmers would blab.

This con could work.. but yes it would require people to work together to break the system (most systems are designed that you need the help of someone else if you want to cheat it). Not so far fetched in a country like Thailand. Just wait for the results you will see.

Of course its feasible, but not likely. Someone in the bank would blab. That's why, issuing invoices for millions.of tonnes of rice would be extremely difficult.

If each farmer grows 50tonnes, you need an awful lot of names and id cards to get to 1mn

True.. but there is an other way too.. remember that there are G2G trades.. suppose you sell rice B grade on paper but give them A grade and get the difference paid out on a hidden bank. Remember they discovered fake G2G trades and G2G trading companies aligned to Taksin. A few fake deals on paper could be used to get A grade out. Really this program is made with fraud in mind.

The G2G trader aligned with Taksin (there as an article about that way back) could also just on paper sell B grade even at lower price as it was paid for and sell it back into the system with fake names. There are many options.. just that you did not think about it does not mean its not possible.. Especially the G2G trades need to be checked.

[metisdead]

Posts with messed up quotes have been removed.

[EnglishJohn]

What strikes me is that the owner must have been pretty confident that nobody was going to look seriously at how much was missing because otherwise the loss was certainly going to show up eventually. Now why would that be ?.

Thaksin himself said 'A little loss is acceptable'. Maybe we didn't quite appreciate how that would transform into government policy. I smell a very big rat - maybe these mills were given assurances by Pheu-Thai that they would be safe to skim. This coup has been a real nuisance !.

[spermwhale]

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"In Pathum Thani province, officials rechecked the warehouses of Phoenix Agritech Wednesday and initially found almost 100,000 sacks of rice went missing. Besides of the missing of the rice, officials also found scaffolding structure inside piles of thousands of rice sacks."

So is she gonna come back to face the music for this blatant scam?

Of course not, she has never known responsibility nor consequences. Like the graffiti '< Thai language removed>' spray painted on her election campaign signs, she is shameless and careless & only thinks of her own & family's well-being.

And there are good reasons she appointed herself chairwoman of the board that runs the rice scheme, on top of her dual jobs as prime minister and defense minister. The ministerial positions are both full time jobs, yet she found plenty of time to also run the rice scheme. That said, she went to one rice meeting and had her underlings actually attend the rest of the meetings in her stead. This family is a sham.

[Nickymaster]

What strikes me is that the owner must have been pretty confident that nobody was going to look seriously at how much was missing because otherwise the loss was certainly going to show up eventually. Now why would that be ?.

Thaksin himself said 'A little loss is acceptable'. Maybe we didn't quite appreciate how that would transform into government policy. I smell a very big rat - maybe these mills were given assurances by Pheu-Thai that they would be safe to skim. This coup has been a real nuisance !.

maybe these mills were given assurances by Pheu-Thai that they would be safe to skim.

This!!

[Hardy99]

Amused about the extremly intelligent comments of some THAIVISA posters

I am shure in your Country the PM or the President is going to Count

the stock of what ever is owned by the Government... :-) ..

I guess all comenting that khun Yingruck is responsible for the loss

in that rice story would say that Obama, Merkel, Cameron, Abbott

or who ever is responsible when there are a few Guns missed out

of the army stocks...

How happy I am in my Country things run different....

I think the money wasting activities of the self proclaimed dictators

costs much more for the tax payers...

Free TV Shows, payd Parties (where others not allowed to meet

with more then 5 people..) Events and Invitations to try to explain

foreign Country officials Thai "Democracy".

There will no Country with democratic standards tolerate such

instruments to bring "peace" to the People...

[robblok]

You are not thinking clearly... who said the high quality rice was there in the first place..... You can administrate bad quality rice as good quality rice. It would indeed not be practical to move rice in and out and replacing it.

Well, then that would mean that they either had millions of fake farmers to pay, or farmers were being paid for rice that didn't exist.

How would that get paid out of the agricultural bank without a receipt from a mill? This con only works if you don't involve farmers. The farmers would blab.

This con could work.. but yes it would require people to work together to break the system (most systems are designed that you need the help of someone else if you want to cheat it). Not so far fetched in a country like Thailand. Just wait for the results you will see.

Of course its feasible, but not likely. Someone in the bank would blab. That's why, issuing invoices for millions.of tonnes of rice would be extremely difficult.

If each farmer grows 50tonnes, you need an awful lot of names and id cards to get to 1mn

True.. but there is an other way too.. remember that there are G2G trades.. suppose you sell rice B grade on paper but give them A grade and get the difference paid out on a hidden bank. Remember they discovered fake G2G trades and G2G trading companies aligned to Taksin. A few fake deals on paper could be used to get A grade out. Really this program is made with fraud in mind.

The G2G trader aligned with Taksin (there as an article about that way back) could also just on paper sell B grade even at lower price as it was paid for and sell it back into the system with fake names. There are many options.. just that you did not think about it does not mean its not possible.. Especially the G2G trades need to be checked.

Yes, that is very possible. But at the end of the day, the actual benefit would be to ship grade B as grade A. That would mean that what is left in the warehouse is better quality than what it would show on paper.

I said sell grade b but ship grade a and get the difference from the buyer an other way.

[metisdead]

Some more posts with messed up quotes have been removed. Try to delete the quoted post in the middle of the quoted posts when posting and this problem may go away.

[catweazle]

Thailand - hub of missing rice

[KhnomKhnom]

I guess those who want to excuse criminal Thaksins will say that the scaffolding was there to allow air to circulate around the bags, ...oh ok, I know that is a big laugh.

The scaffolding is proof "someone" was stealing rice.

[catweazle]

Some more posts with messed up quotes have been removed. Try to delete the quoted post in the middle of the quoted posts when posting and this problem may go away.

Doesn't the deletion of a quoted quote make everything else become obsolete? Just asking...

[Thai at Heart]

Well if they have shipped all the B grade and managed to charge the client for A, there will be some pretty furious international buyers, and its not exactly clear to me who on the Thai side would have got conned?

That would be very easy to measure because there is a stock list and it will show what has been sold, and that is in very large lots.

[gabruce]

In Pathum Thani province, officials rechecked the warehouses of Phoenix Agritech Wednesday and initially found almost 100,000 sacks of rice went missing.

That's not what I read, and let's be a little realistic here. Its not of biblical proportions. If only that were so.

There are still 18mn tonnes of rice in the warehouse and no one knows of how good a quality it all is.

It may say grade A on the bag, but only when it gets reopened and packaged with anyone really know.

How do you KNOW there are still 18 Mn tons of rice in storage?

Have you been to all the warehouses and personally counted each sack?

Is your information from the previous PTP government who did an audit and found that there NO missing or mouldy rice?

Alternatively can you post the links that actually quote this figure.

I tend to believe the military auditing teams rather than any information from the previous PTP government.

Read the papers. How many tonnes of missing rice have they declared so far?

50k? 100k.

Around 100k. I think if they had found 1mn missing they would be trumpeting it from the highest mountains. I am amazed they even went back to check this place

So this is 50,000 sacks missing. 5,000 tonnes. Phew. I await them not finding this so called missing 3mn. Keep counting.

Its irrelevant anyway if 30% of what they count is mouldy .

The article claims 5% missing so far. It's not clear to me whether that's 5% of the total rice expected or 5% of the rice that's been checked so far. Either way, it looks like something around 1 million tons (or more) might be missing by the time they finish the inspection. As you note, there is also the need to account for mismatches in quality (ie jasmine vs all broken rice) and ruined/mouldy rice.

[mekongsailor]

The NACC is investigating losses of up to $16 billion

Do you think you could get $16 billion in 11 suit cases ?.....if yes than dear Yingie has just walked out the country with it, and going to do a spot of shopping in Paris...

Easily. Even in 1 suit case. A diamond of 1KT, Color D, Clarity VVS2 with a diameter of 6.5mm is worth about 120.000 THB.

Short: 16 Billion dollars can buy +/- 5 kgs of those kind of diamonds. Not so difficult to carry it as hand luggage on an aircraft.

[lostmebike]

They went back to recheck the sane place.

But I thought there would be such richer pickings to find all over the place.

Shouldn't this be, more rice missing from warehouse they already checked?

No. They mean re-checked because the first check organized by the chairwoman of the rice scheme was only a PR plot to cover up the mounting losses until the PTP won another election. This time, they actually opened the doors, looked inside, and found what every warm blooded creature knew they would. Evidence of a scam of biblical proportions.

In Pathum Thani province, officials rechecked the warehouses of Phoenix Agritech Wednesday and initially found almost 100,000 sacks of rice went missing.

That's not what I read, and let's be a little realistic here. Its not of biblical proportions. If only that were so.

There are still 18mn tonnes of rice in the warehouse and no one knows of how good a quality it all is.

It may say grade A on the bag, but only when it gets reopened and packaged with anyone really know.

Got to disagree here.

Look at that picture. That is a structure, purposely built to give the impression of quantity (or rather hide the lack of quantity)

Now if this is just one of the government warehouses used, who's to say there aren't a shed-load more just waiting to be discovered?

Surely this has the makings of potentially being the biggest scam ever in Thailand's history!

[allan michaud]

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They went back to recheck the sane place.

But I thought there would be such richer pickings to find all over the place.

Shouldn't this be, more rice missing from warehouse they already checked?

No. They mean re-checked because the first check organized by the chairwoman of the rice scheme was only a PR plot to cover up the mounting losses until the PTP won another election. This time, they actually opened the doors, looked inside, and found what every warm blooded creature knew they would. Evidence of a scam of biblical proportions.

In Pathum Thani province, officials rechecked the warehouses of Phoenix Agritech Wednesday and initially found almost 100,000 sacks of rice went missing.


That's not what I read, and let's be a little realistic here. Its not of biblical proportions. If only that were so.

There are still 18mn tonnes of rice in the warehouse and no one knows of how good a quality it all is.

It may say grade A on the bag, but only when it gets reopened and packaged with anyone really know.

Well this article indicates around 2 thirds of the rice is missing from this warehouse although it also states that, so far, their seems to be something like an average of 5% missing. However, as stated in earlier articles many warehouses have been found to have heavily mixed rice, with cheaper rice being mixed with better qualities and that also seems to be on a fairly large scale. I guess it comes down to your personal view of the term 'biblical proportions'. We appear to be looking at several million tons either missing, lost to damage and from 'mixing' grades. I reckon that's approaching biblical proportions.

[metisdead]

Some more posts with messed up quotes have been removed. Try to delete the quoted post in the middle of the quoted posts when posting and this problem may go away.

Doesn't the deletion of a quoted quote make everything else become obsolete? Just asking...

Well, usually by the time a member is replying to a long chain of quoted posts, he's most likely replying to the last post as opposed to the middle original quoted post.

[HerbalEd]

Yingluck.. no there is no rice missing we checked it.. Dereliction of duty at the least corruption at the worst. She should go to jail for sure just to set an example.

It will be hard to prove of course but who knows payments could be made to friends of the PTP for this and that could moved up to higher echelons of PTP. They are not stupid they wont make it too obvious but maybe we are lucky and some warehouse owners will crack and finger people higher up.

Does anyone here actually think Yinluck will return to Thailand? I even wonder if the present Thai government actually prefers that she not.

[sailblue]

Now that explains why they were not trying too hard to sell the rice. It was already sold out the back door, the longer they could "keep it" the longer they had to think of a story like , "it has gone bad and we had to burn it" .

Was all of this rice insured ?

[tingtongfarang]

Yingluck.. no there is no rice missing we checked it.. Dereliction of duty at the least corruption at the worst. She should go to jail for sure just to set an example.

It will be hard to prove of course but who knows payments could be made to friends of the PTP for this and that could moved up to higher echelons of PTP. They are not stupid they wont make it too obvious but maybe we are lucky and some warehouse owners will crack and finger people higher up.

Does anyone here actually think Yinluck will return to Thailand? I even wonder if the present Thai government actually prefers that she not.

Would seem she has been given the green light to go awol, in a normal world her assets would be seized and passport canceled ...she would be toast! along with anyone else implicated in this scam,

The civilised world is expected to accept this as thainess but in reality if she does,nt return GP loses almost all street cred.

[ggt]

Yingluck...may have taken the rice with her when she left the country...does not plan to return anytime soon...likes Jasmine rice...mak mak...t-soot...

[Bernard Flint]

The rats must be massive now

[Thai at Heart]

In Pathum Thani province, officials rechecked the warehouses of Phoenix Agritech Wednesday and initially found almost 100,000 sacks of rice went missing.

That's not what I read, and let's be a little realistic here. Its not of biblical proportions. If only that were so.

There are still 18mn tonnes of rice in the warehouse and no one knows of how good a quality it all is.

It may say grade A on the bag, but only when it gets reopened and packaged with anyone really know.

How do you KNOW there are still 18 Mn tons of rice in storage?

Have you been to all the warehouses and personally counted each sack?

Is your information from the previous PTP government who did an audit and found that there NO missing or mouldy rice?

Alternatively can you post the links that actually quote this figure.

I tend to believe the military auditing teams rather than any information from the previous PTP government.

Read the papers. How many tonnes of missing rice have they declared so far?

50k? 100k.

Around 100k. I think if they had found 1mn missing they would be trumpeting it from the highest mountains. I am amazed they even went back to check this place

So this is 50,000 sacks missing. 5,000 tonnes. Phew. I await them not finding this so called missing 3mn. Keep counting.

Its irrelevant anyway if 30% of what they count is mouldy .

The article claims 5% missing so far. It's not clear to me whether that's 5% of the total rice expected or 5% of the rice that's been checked so far. Either way, it looks like something around 1 million tons (or more) might be missing by the time they finish the inspection. As you note, there is also the need to account for mismatches in quality (ie jasmine vs all broken rice) and ruined/mouldy rice.

They can't count the mismatches and grades unless it is completely damaged. Too many stacks, too much volume. Too much deterioration.

The 5% is the allowed discrepancy before the prosecute. Just imagine that. It shows clearly that to accurately count the stacks quickly is impossible. Millions upon millions of sacks.

[KarenBravo]

So you keep saying.

[Local Drunk]

They can't count the mismatches and grades unless it is completely damaged. Too many stacks, too much volume. Too much deterioration.

The 5% is the allowed discrepancy before the prosecute. Just imagine that. It shows clearly that to accurately count the stacks quickly is impossible. Millions upon millions of sacks.

Right... so again, why are there millions of sacks of rice that need to be investigated?

[Thai at Heart]

They can't count the mismatches and grades unless it is completely damaged. Too many stacks, too much volume. Too much deterioration.

The 5% is the allowed discrepancy before the prosecute. Just imagine that. It shows clearly that to accurately count the stacks quickly is impossible. Millions upon millions of sacks.

Right... so again, why are there millions of sacks of rice that need to be investigated?

Ummmmmm. Because they have a few thousand warehouses full of rice. Was that a rhetorical question or just a really stupid one?

[chotthee]

Yingluck...may have taken the rice with her when she left the country...does not plan to return anytime soon...likes Jasmine rice...mak mak...t-soot...

Anyone check her 15 luggages?

[wvavin]

Everything is too late now. The NCPO is slapping their own faces by letting her go. She's now gone!

[JesseFrank]

How do you KNOW there are still 18 Mn tons of rice in storage?

Have you been to all the warehouses and personally counted each sack?

Is your information from the previous PTP government who did an audit and found that there NO missing or mouldy rice?

Alternatively can you post the links that actually quote this figure.

I tend to believe the military auditing teams rather than any information from the previous PTP government.

Read the papers. How many tonnes of missing rice have they declared so far?

50k? 100k.

Around 100k. I think if they had found 1mn missing they would be trumpeting it from the highest mountains. I am amazed they even went back to check this place

So this is 50,000 sacks missing. 5,000 tonnes. Phew. I await them not finding this so called missing 3mn. Keep counting.

Its irrelevant anyway if 30% of what they count is mouldy .

Why you say that only 50.000 sacks are missing when in the OP it clearly says 100.000 ? Agenda somewhere ?

This is also not the first report of 100.000 sacks missing, I think so far including this one, they have found already close to 500.000 sacks missing altogether, en just the other day it was reported that have so far checked only 60% of the warehouses.

More to come for sure

[KarenBravo]

Everything is too late now. The NCPO is slapping their own faces by letting her go. She's now gone!

Actually, they've been very smart.

If she was in the country and they had to prosecute her for the rice buying fiasco, she would become a martyr.

The reds in Isaan and the North could start to cause problems for the army, especially as many of their conscripts are from these regions.

Tried and sentenced in absentia and a refusal to come back to face the music plays straight into the Army's hands.

Think about it.