Long overstay, Thai son, not official married, how to untangle the situation

[kdrayong]

How to handle this (weird) situation?

 

A close friend of mine is somehow a hedonist. Smart, polite, friendly and never experienced any problems due to this behavior.

 

He's living in Thailand since a very long time. Overstay for many years, his passport blighted by the ex-gf, flushed down the toilet.

 

Since four years, he is living with his new TH-GF, just married by Buddha. He has a TH-son with her, two years old now. Somehow he could convince the hospital to issue a birth certificate, where he is officially mentioned as the legal father,

 

Now, finally, I could convince him to clear up his situation. He reported his passport missing at his local police station, today. By that he will be eligible to obtain a document from the German embassy to travel out via Suvarnabhumi. He is aware that he will need to report his overstay at the immigration and pay his 20 kTHB fine. Hope he'll fly out ASAP.

 

My question is, what are the best options for him. to return and continue his life with his family.

He is under 50 years old, but should manage it, to put 400kTHB into a TH-bank account.

 

I advised him to return by 30-days visa exemption stamp, open a 400 kTHB account, travel to Savannakhet, apply for a Non-Im-O Visa 90 days, single entry, for the purpose to visit his family. After that, apply for an extension of stay for one year, by the reason of a dependent kid.

 

Am I right?

 

Edited July 25, 2014 by kdrayong

[rgs2001uk]

He aint married, he has no family.

He aint married, the son aint his.

 

Best he gets married at the local amphor, make it official, then he can apply for an extension of his visa due to the fact he has a Thai wife, at the moment he has no wife or child.

[kdrayong]

He is officially registered to be the legal father of his son by the birth certificate.

Do you mean, that he will not be approved as the father, as long he is not legally married? 

[rgs2001uk]

He is officially registered to be the legal father of his son by the birth certificate.

Do you mean, that he will not be approved as the father, as long he is not legally married? 

 

Suggest you read up on Thai law, he aint married the kid aint his..

 

What you mean to say is, his name is on the birth certificate as the father.

Please let me know where he is "registered to be the legal father"?

 

Registered where and by whom?

See opening senetence.

[larsjohnsson]

How can you register anything without being married? And without any passport ?

[kdrayong]

I'm having no clue how he was able to manage that. Well, he is very charming and the hospital accepted some papers from him. For sure he holds no passport.

 

However, he still holds the birth certificate in his hands, with his name being the legal father. I don't know who issued it, but I guess it was the local amphor, all handled by the hospital.  

 

No matter why and how, plz. 

My question is how he will be able to continue. After reporting himself after 1x years overstay at the airport,he will pay his fine, but wants to live and stay with his family in Thailand.

(He'll fly out by Monday, I hope)

Edited July 25, 2014 by kdrayong

[rgs2001uk]

Jesus H, get this through your head.

 

He has a birth certificate that names him as the father, the birth certificate could have said Elvis Presley or Michael Jackson for all the Thais care.

 

He aint married, ergo he has no family.

 

To have a family by Thai law he needs to get married legally at the amphor, and be issued with the relevant paperwork, at the moment he aint married, has no paperwork so doesnt have a leg to stand on.

[TobiasML]

I'm having no clue how he was able to manage that. Well, he is very charming and the hospital accepted some papers from him. For sure he holds no passport.
 
However, he still holds the birth certificate in his hands, with his name being the legal father. I don't know who issued it, but I guess it was the local amphor, all handled by the hospital.  
 
No matter why and how, plz. 
My question is how he will be able to continue. After reporting himself after 1x years overstay at the airport,he will pay his fine, but wants to live and stay with his family in Thailand.
(He'll fly out by Monday, I hope)

I am as well mentioned on the birth certificate of my son. By law I am still not the legal father of my son. On the birth certificate the mother can mention anyone to be the father. Only through court ruling or marriage it becomes legally his. Therefore he would need to get married or start the registration process in court for his child. It can take up to 6month to get registered, depending how busy the court is. Only then he would be the legal father.
Would this have any effect for his visa. I do not know.
Maybe one of the more knowledgeable people on visa questions on TVF will comment soon.
Maybe best option would be to get out, pay fine, apply for a tourist visa, which will provide him with another 90days including extension and then sort it out.
He might ask at the embassy during application if it is possible to get a non-o based on the birth certificate. I doubt it but I am looking forward to be proven wrong as this would open doors for a few more people to stay here in Thailand without any hassle.

[kdrayong]

In case I understand that clearly, it means that a birth certificate, stating to be the legal father of a Thai child, doesn't have any influence of obtaining a visa or extension of stay.

Am I right?

 

[kdrayong]

 

I am as well mentioned on the birth certificate of my son. By law I am still not the legal father of my son. On the birth certificate the mother can mention anyone to be the father. Only through court ruling or marriage it becomes legally his. Therefore he would need to get married or start the registration process in court for his child. It can take up to 6month to get registered, depending how busy the court is. Only then he would be the legal father.
Would this have any effect for his visa. I do not know.
Maybe one of the more knowledgeable people on visa questions on TVF will comment soon.
Maybe best option would be to get out, pay fine, apply for a tourist visa, which will provide him with another 90days including extension and then sort it out.
He might ask at the embassy during application if it is possible to get a non-o based on the birth certificate. I doubt it but I am looking forward to be proven wrong as this would open doors for a few more people to stay here in Thailand without any hassle.

 

 

Just read this after I posted. Good statement, THX for that. 

[rgs2001uk]

In case I understand that clearly, it means that a birth certificate, stating to be the legal father of a Thai child, doesn't have any influence of obtaining a visa or extension of stay.

Am I right?

 

 

Correct, see above post.

 

Edit, it doesnt say anywhere on the birth certificate to be legal father.

Can you read Thai, do you know Thai law?

Edited July 25, 2014 by rgs2001uk

[SoFarAndNear]

As far as I understand someone else you can get a single entry Non-O visa with it but only for 90 days. and then a 60 days extenson.

[kdrayong]

 

Correct, see above post.

 

Edit, it doesnt say anywhere on the birth certificate to be legal father.

Can you read Thai, do you know Thai law?

 

 

Yes I do, since I've been a lawyer before, even if I need some Thai translators from time to time.   (not really good in Thai language)

[Showbags]

Jesus H, get this through your head.

 

He has a birth certificate that names him as the father, the birth certificate could have said Elvis Presley or Michael Jackson for all the Thais care.

 

He aint married, ergo he has no family.

 

To have a family by Thai law he needs to get married legally at the amphor, and be issued with the relevant paperwork, at the moment he aint married, has no paperwork so doesnt have a leg to stand on.

 

 

Bit of a jerk ain't ya...

 

I am not married....have a child, had a non o visa for circa 3 years based on family/child......child was not registered here as recognised as mine....I then swapped to thai child visa after being recognised by the high and mighty.....but the first few years was none of that.....all I had was the birth certificate with my name on it...go figure

 

But you know what...anything possible here as my son now has a Thai id card and he does not even have a thai birth certificate.....go figure

Edited July 25, 2014 by Showbags

[Showbags]

In case I understand that clearly, it means that a birth certificate, stating to be the legal father of a Thai child, doesn't have any influence of obtaining a visa or extension of stay.

Am I right?

 

 

 

Not in my case....but his mileage may vary

[ALFREDO]

 

In case I understand that clearly, it means that a birth certificate, stating to be the legal father of a Thai child, doesn't have any influence of obtaining a visa or extension of stay.

Am I right?

 

 

Correct, see above post.

 

Edit, it doesnt say anywhere on the birth certificate to be legal father.

Can you read Thai, do you know Thai law?

 

 

means that a birth certificate, stating to be the father of a Thai child, doesn't have any influence of obtaining a visa or extension of stay.

 

IS WRONG!

 

I have 3 sons, with 2 different Thai women, never married,

 

have always, signed papers, after child birth, at the local Amphoes in 2002, 2004 and 2007 whatever papers that had been,

I believe, confirming that I am accepting,  that I am the childrens father

 

and obtained since 2009,

many Extensions of stay for having a child and taking care a child living with it,

in Udon Thani and Khon Kaen Immigration.

As well made some Non Immigrant O Visa as father of a child in the Thai Embassy Consular section in Vientiane.

Birth certificate, house paper, copy of Gf's ID Card ect enough. 

[Satcommlee]

You don;t need a passport to have a name put on the birth certificate... I could even have your name put on MY son;s birth certificate.

 

He will need to do one of three things..

 

• If his child is old enough (maybe 7 years old), he can registered as the legal father at an Amphur by statement form the child.

 

• Marry the Mother then the child is legally his.

 

• Or obtain an order from the court recognising him as  the father.

 

He's done the Buddha wedding, so I am guessing there is no problem in getting the marriage legalized in the Amphur.

 

If he has the birth certificate and a copy of the mothers ID, then he may get a Non-O at an embassy which can later be extended (subject to further legitimization of the child)

 

 

[larsjohnsson]

Can you just pay the fine and go out with many years overstay. And then come back in again on a visa exemption? And he need a new passport quickly also Edited July 25, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[7777777]

I also have a Thai son and just got an O visa at the Thai counsolet Vientiane yesterday (fiancee's house book, fiancees and child's page in the book copied too, I also took a copy of my lease since we don't live in her hometown, copy of her ID card signed... there is a thread for non o visas that tells you all the paper work but I was overly through), but he will need a passport to put it in.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/

 

The 20000 baht at the airport doesn't sound like a problem....I would have bank records with me too (I took a years worth) and on my paper works I wrote not employed (which I am not, so while that kind of sucks in a way, I am being legal, I don't know where his money comes from). 

 

He should look at the thread about new rules for overstay that I saw the otherday on here. That sound very problematic, he could be barred for 5 years (I think)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/744965-thailand-immigration-confirms-new-overstay-rules-are-now-official/    wrong look below :)

 

He should also look at the thread about what is legal as far as being a legally reconized father and what is necessary to get married (legally at an amphor, depending on the child's age).

 

As an American I will have to get a US affidavit from my embassy saying I am divorced and another saying I am free to marry and then take that to the Thai cousolet here and have it stamped/legalized (plus translation I think, haven't done this yet, myself). 

 

Read the site and search, all that info is on here. I feel for him if he has to go but he should really look into all of these issues and take care before just going. Best of luck to him, I know I wouldn't want to go and not be able to come back for 5 years.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745684-still-time-to-clear-your-overstay-without-blacklisting/

hah! just found this so I would advise get a passport and all the right paper work to go to Laos! before September. Sorry for the panicy list of the thread above.

Edited July 25, 2014 by 7777777

[wayned]

Although it has been reported that the new overstay rules are not being enforced yet there is a report in a thread this morning of someone doing his retirement extension and having to sign a form stating that he is aware of the new requirements:

My retirement extension on 25 July 2014

Started by billd766, Yesterday, 17:52

 

I would advise him to get out before they start enforcing the rules and apply for a Non-O based on having a Thai Child.  Otherwise he could be "blacklisted" for a long time!

[ubonjoe]

He is not the legal farther of his child until he goes through the process to legitimize his parenthood.

He can get single entry non-o visas and 60 day extensions of stay to visit his child with just his name on the birth certificate. He will need the birth certificate (plus a copy) and copies of his child's house book pages.

He can get the single entry non-o visa at most nearby embassies and consulates. I can confirm Vientiane and Savannakhet will do them.

I suggest he get the single entry non-o visa before returning after paying his overstay on departure.

[seabass69]

 

Jesus H, get this through your head.

 

He has a birth certificate that names him as the father, the birth certificate could have said Elvis Presley or Michael Jackson for all the Thais care.

 

He aint married, ergo he has no family.

 

To have a family by Thai law he needs to get married legally at the amphor, and be issued with the relevant paperwork, at the moment he aint married, has no paperwork so doesnt have a leg to stand on.

 

 

Bit of a jerk ain't ya...

 

I am not married....have a child, had a non o visa for circa 3 years based on family/child......child was not registered here as recognised as mine....I then swapped to thai child visa after being recognised by the high and mighty.....but the first few years was none of that.....all I had was the birth certificate with my name on it...go figure

 

But you know what...anything possible here as my son now has a Thai id card and he does not even have a thai birth certificate.....go figure

 

Same...I got a 1 year O visa because of my son. My name on birth certificate, not legitimised through the court. 

[simon43]

You don;t need a passport to have a name put on the birth certificate... I could even have your name put on MY son;s birth certificate.

 

Just to demonstrate that the above is possible, some years ago, my Thai ex-wife actually named me as the father of her newborn child, even though we were already divorced, the baby looked as Thai as any Thai baby looks, and the real (Thai, nice but dim) father was present at the birth! 

 

(She named me as the father because I was more likely to contribute to the upkeep of the child).

 

It took a lot of effort from me, her and the real father to get the birth certificate re-issued.

 

So be aware that having your name on the birth certificate as the father of the baby does not mean that you are the real father!

 

 

[Lite Beer]

How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/

[larsjohnsson]

He is not the legal farther of his child until he goes through the process to legitimize his parenthood.
He can get single entry non-o visas and 60 day extensions of stay to visit his child with just his name on the birth certificate. He will need the birth certificate (plus a copy) and copies of his child's house book pages.
He can get the single entry non-o visa at most nearby embassies and consulates. I can confirm Vientiane and Savannakhet will do them.
I suggest he get the single entry non-o visa before returning after paying his overstay on departure.

I'm sure youre advice is good. They aleays are. BUT he doesn't have any passport. And years of overstay. I don't understand how he can do these things without a passport? And if he don't get a new passport quickly and fix the overstay problem, the new rules will start!!!

[SoFarAndNear]

Please OP tell us what you did okay? I think many here are very interested what happened to you after you left thailand with your overstay.

[ubonjoe]

 

He is not the legal farther of his child until he goes through the process to legitimize his parenthood.
He can get single entry non-o visas and 60 day extensions of stay to visit his child with just his name on the birth certificate. He will need the birth certificate (plus a copy) and copies of his child's house book pages.
He can get the single entry non-o visa at most nearby embassies and consulates. I can confirm Vientiane and Savannakhet will do them.
I suggest he get the single entry non-o visa before returning after paying his overstay on departure.

I'm sure youre advice is good. They aleays are. BUT he doesn't have any passport. And years of overstay. I don't understand how he can do these things without a passport? And if he don't get a new passport quickly and fix the overstay problem, the new rules will start!!!

 

Of course he will need to get a passport or a travel document to even leave the country that is a given.

He like many others that are possibly in the same boat will need to get things sorted out before the new overstay rules start sometime in September.

[kdrayong]

He can get single entry non-o visas and 60 day extensions of stay to visit his child with just his name on the birth certificate. He will need the birth certificate (plus a copy) and copies of his child's house book pages.

He can get the single entry non-o visa at most nearby embassies and consulates. I can confirm Vientiane and Savannakhet will do them.

I suggest he get the single entry non-o visa before returning after paying his overstay on departure.

 

Thanks guys,

That is what I recommended to him.

Leave the country with the temporary passport ASAP.

Re-enter the kingdom with a visa exemption after a while (he will need to clear up things in Europe anyway, like applying for a new passport).

Open a bank account with 400k.

Travel to Laos with the birth certificate of his son, bank book, copies etc. and apply for a single entry non-o visa. I guess he won't get that in Europe, since he is under 50 years old.

After 60 days with the 400k in the bank account, apply for an extension of stay.

 

I will continue reporting, what will happen to him.

@SoFarAndNear, I myself am living here happily and peaceful with an extension of stay, based on retirement.

[ubonjoe]

 

He can get single entry non-o visas and 60 day extensions of stay to visit his child with just his name on the birth certificate. He will need the birth certificate (plus a copy) and copies of his child's house book pages.

He can get the single entry non-o visa at most nearby embassies and consulates. I can confirm Vientiane and Savannakhet will do them.

I suggest he get the single entry non-o visa before returning after paying his overstay on departure.

 

Thanks guys,

That is what I recommended to him.

Leave the country with the temporary passport ASAP.

Re-enter the kingdom with a visa exemption after a while (he will need to clear up things in Europe anyway, like applying for a new passport).

Open a bank account with 400k.

Travel to Laos with the birth certificate of his son, bank book, copies etc. and apply for a single entry non-o visa. I guess he won't get that in Europe, since he is under 50 years old.

After 60 days with the 400k in the bank account, apply for an extension of stay.

 

I will continue reporting, what will happen to him.

@SoFarAndNear, I myself am living here happily and peaceful with an extension of stay, based on retirement.

 

It would be much better if he could get the single entry non-o visa before entering the country. They are less likely to make problems for him than with a visa exempt entry.

There is no reason to put 400k baht in the bank until he gets his parenthood legitimized. He will not get an extension until after that is done.

He can get the single entry non-o visa based upon being the parent of a Thai anywhere his age does not matter. At an honorary consulate in Germany he might even be able to get a multiple entry non-o without the legitimization.

Are you sure he cannot get a new passport without returning to Germany?

[kdrayong]

It would be much better if he could get the single entry non-o visa before entering the country. They are less likely to make problems for him than with a visa exempt entry.

He can get the single entry non-o visa based upon being the parent of a Thai anywhere his age does not matter. At an honorary consulate in Germany he might even be able to get a multiple entry non-o without the legitimization.

Are you sure he cannot get a new passport without returning to Germany?

 

 

I'm pretty sure, that he would be able to obtain a new passport at any German embassy. In Germany he will just get it faster. Right now, he will just receive a travel document, that will allow him to leave the country, after paying the fine for his overstay.

Do you see any disadvantages to travel to Germany and apply there for a new passport and a non-o visa?