Im switching to edu-visa, how about my child?

[SicaStyle]

hi all.

I've been living in Thailand over 5 years. I was teaching and holding a non-B for almost 4 of those years, but when i was too prego to work anymore, i moved down to the islands with my retired mother and had my child down here. We've been living with her since, which has worked out happily for us because she gets to play an active roll in watching her grandson grow and i'm able to spend my days being a full time mom with the help of her finances. I'm not working and have been existing here on a couple tourist visas and a bunch of visa exempt stamps, but those days are clearly over. The time has come for me to get on an education visa, which I'm happy with, as I'd intended to increase my fluency and reading/writing ability in Thai anyway. My question is this: what about my 15 month old son? Will it be an O visa that he needs to get? We are American.

On a side note, he is 1/2 Thai by blood but unfortunately his father is unable to provide the proper documentation to pass on his citizenship- that's a whole different mess that unfortunately is not an option, though I know it would be the golden ticket to not worrying about any of this visa stuff. Maybe one day. In any case, I'm currently his only legal guardian and as far as Thai law is concerned, he's just a very asian looking farang baby. This all needs to be handled by November so I'm startin to feel the heat- I want my son to be exposed to his cultural roots for as long as we can, and want to make sure that he grows up bilingual.

Thanks for your time and input.

[Maestro]

Once you have your education extension, your child can get a dependent extension under clause 2.11 of Police Order 777.2551.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=276615

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[CWMcMurray]

In the past , young children were not affected by overstay rules... Not sure if any have any knowledge if this will still be the case once the new 'blacklist Rules' go into affect

May be worth a call to immigration 1111

If needing to get him a visa, don't think it is possible to piggyback on an ED visa (some one correct me if I am wrong)

If so, then best would likely be to get him enrolled in a pre- k program

15 month is a bit on the young side, as most start pre-k (if choosing to start before KG1) at 2 years old.

But you may want to check will local schools and see how young they will accept

Also if you can work with you mom you get finances in the bank under your name, believe it is 500k, you can then piggyback on his ED visa for supporting him, for as long as he is in school on a valid ED visa

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CWMcMurray]

Just saw Maestro's message... So for now he can piggyback on your ED visa

Then once he is old enough, if you have the funds to show support. He can get an ED visa and you can then piggyback on his visa

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ubonjoe]

Your child is Thai by birth if his birth certificate shows a Thai as his father. Nothing more is needed than that.

Have you gotten a passport for your child yet?

[SicaStyle]

Your child is Thai by birth if his birth certificate shows a Thai as his father. Nothing more is needed than that.

Have you gotten a passport for your child yet?

I'm the only one on the birth certificate as his paperwork was not together at the time of birth. He wanted to use his brothers ID (proper papers) for the birth certificate but I absolutely refused- I'm not about to have my baby's paperwork muddled with fraud, especially claiming the father is a man I'd never even met at the time. Insane. My son does have a passport now (american) and we've traveled internationally already- he has the same multi entry tourist visa that I do at the moment.

I'm happy to hear that I can piggyback off my edu, but does that mean I must have my edu issued BEFORE I can apply for his or could I potentially do the paperwork together? If not at the same time, could I do his paperwork immediately after? As in, could I bring him to Penang with me, receive my visa from the embassy and the next day file for his, then both re-enter the kingdom together?

I've heard of the law where young children dont get overstay fines, but with so many laws suddenly changing, it seems like a risk that could result in a blacklist and could affect our overall ability to exist at least part time in this country. Also, if he was on overstay as a tourist, wouldnt it then potentially come up as a problem to travel abroad, especially on short trips? I assume that the same general standards for allowing foreigners to enter the kingdom would apply to children in regards of already having existing stamps- especially if there are overstays involved. It sounds like too much of a risk to rely on him being allowed to overstay and assume we could enter with me having my edu and him having nothing, or assuming an embassy will just continue to issue him a tourist visa.

As for him having an edu for pre-k, I'll look into it, but I'm pretty sure he's too young to join any place around here- and I'd be skeptical of actually dropping him off at a place that would allow it. Frankly, the education options on the island I live on are infamously rubbish, which have driven a lot of expats living here to develop homeschooling study groups for their kids- but unfortunately I dont believe that option offers the possibility of an edu visa as they're not officially registered. I'll look farther into that, but pretty sure I'll strike out.

I hope piggybacking will work for now, and maybe by the time another option is needed, his father will be able to offer some help at that point. He's from a small village in which her majesty the princess came to help all the stateless and paperwork-less children, but of course, he was too busy being a careless punk teenager in bkk during that time as he was sure such things would be irreverent in his life so didn't jump on the bandwagon while he still could. Now he's been informed he's too old to apply for such things and any attempts to sort him out have been rejected- aside from corruption, which thus far has been a black hole of empty promises at a price. I can't rely on all that working out, so unfortunately I have to operate under the idea that he may always be just as much of a foreigner here as I am- even though when you look at him he could pass for even a pure blood Thai.

[ubonjoe]

You could still get him made the father of your child if he had his ID card and house book. It might require a DNA test but it is possible.

You should be able to get his non-o visa when you apply for your non-ed visa. Just be sure you have his birth certificate with you.

Then when you get your extension you will be able get his dependent extension based upon yours.

It is correct that once your child is older and is attending a school registered with the Ministry of Education you could get an extension as his parent after he has an extension for that. But you would need 500k baht in the bank to do it.

[SicaStyle]

You could still get him made the father of your child if he had his ID card and house book. It might require a DNA test but it is possible.

That's definitely the plan if and when he is able to obtain those things :/

[gemguy]

I was told by immigration officials at Cheangwattana that this is not something to worry about as the child is less than 14 years old.

Of course you can not fully rely on what the immigration officials tell you because what they say at the time could easily be refuted by another immigration official at the airport or at the border when entering or exiting the Kingdom.

Everyone agrees that children, such as your case, are a non issue...even if the child is overstayed according to the tourist visa he has in the passport.

When you think of it, what other visa would they give to the child when he enters the Kingdom on a passport.

You may think they should have a special immigration status stamp for the child saying children are exempt when proven to be with the parent(s) when entering the Kingdom and they are therefore attached to what ever visa status the parent or parents are currently using.

That is not the case and officially you are supposed to apply for a visa outside the country at any Thai consulate...but it is not always that simple...right?

I was told by 2 relatively high ranking immigration officials that this not something to be concerned about.

But what does that mean???

However if you do want the child to be official, having long term immigration status I was told the parent ( that would be you in this case ) can apply for the child to be granted immigration status that is attached to your immigration status by way of going to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ( located at the Cheangwattana complex ) and fill out the application form that requests your child be attached to your current immigration status.

I am not sure if a parent on a ED visa can accomplish this but more than likely you can if that is the immigration status you are currently on or will be applying for yourself.

When you go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs you will find out.

I was told that you take the application form or documents to a Thai embassy and submit the form / documents with an application for a Non immigrant 90 day visa

The immigration officials were not clear on which 90 day non immigrant visa but more than likely a Non immigrant "O" visa

Then you enter the country with the child on a non immigrant 90 day visa .

Then you apply for the 1 year extension

When you apply for the 1 year extension , I was told, the extension will coincide with the guardians immigration status and the date the guardians long term status or extension status ends...so that the child and the guardian renew their immigration status at the same time.

That is how it was explained to me...about 2 weeks ago when I was out there at Cheangwattana asking about the status of my 21 month old child who reentered Thailand on June 13 / 2014 and was evolving into an overstay on the 30 day tourist visa upon arrival at the airport.

I was there with some other people taking care of their immigration status and I went to visit the immigration official that originally issued me my retirement immigration status 3 years ago...all arranged in Thailand, in 1 day...for a price of course, but it was brilliant...... and an eye opener....lol.

The officials said they did not know themselves how the new overstay rules will effect a child under 14 years old while they both assured me nothing will happen to you or the child if the child has overstayed as long as the parent(s) have not overstayed themselves as the child is under 14 years of age and recognized as being dependent on the parent(s)

As usual they said do not worry about this issue as it is not an issue.

One that day I called my Visa agent, who goes to Cheangwattana everyday to do his immigration business with his immigration officials /contacts and asked to meet him and discuss this issue.

He also told me not to worry and when I told him what the 2 immigration officials had told me he said the same thing he always says to me.

Just give the passport to him and agree to his service fee and he will arrange what ever I want...all done in country, signed, sealed and delivered.

However I was told there is no need to do what the immigration officials had suggested a person can do rather he told me to simply give him the child's passport several days before the child and parent(s) will be traveling and the child will be noted in the computer system as exempt from any immigration issue.....just like the last time he took my child's passport to the immigration officials before we left the country on the 21 st of May 2014

Myself and my wife passed through immigration at the airport with no questions asked or any scrutiny of the child's passport....all smiles and friendly.

My immigration agent told me we can continue doing it that way if I want or if I want I can arrange for the official status the way the immigration officials had discussed with me but minus the part about going to the Department of Foreign Affairs and minus the part about going to a Thai Embassy to apply for the non immigrant status.

In other words, you are paying him for the service of arranging "everything" within the country.

I hope I have helped you in some way.

Cheers

Edited July 27, 2014 by gemguy

[Mario2008]

Children are not exempt from overstay, the same immigration rules apply to them as for everyone else.

Children under 14 are not fined for overstay, but they do overstay and such is noted in the passport.

Never heard of being able to attach your child to your visa through the MFA. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs clearly state that children need their own visa.

[ubonjoe]

Children are not fined for overstay if they are under the age of 15 because before then it is their parents responsibility to insure they have a valid permit to stay in the country.

To me a parent is not being responsible if they do not take the time, effort and expense to insure their children's permit to stay is valid.

[gemguy]

Children are not exempt from overstay, the same immigration rules apply to them as for everyone else.

Children under 14 are not fined for overstay, but they do overstay and such is noted in the passport.

Never heard of being able to attach your child to your visa through the MFA. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs clearly state that children need their own visa.

You are misunderstanding.

The child has their own passport but one of the parents has to be the person that applies and requests for the child to have long term status...obviously

Because the OP is in the country, at present, she can go to the ministry of foreign affairs and apply for the child to be granted a non immigrant visa when the parent applies for the non immigrant visa at a Thai embassy.

I suppose you could call it "document preparation" or "pre qualification"...... before you go to a Thai embassy and apply for the non immigrant status on behalf of the child.

because you may not be granted non immigrant status for the child because the child's immigration status is or will be relevant to the parents immigration status.

If you are already outside the country then naturally you go to a Thai consulate with the child's passport to apply for the non immigrant Visa....before you travel to Thailand

But the question is...what about the guardian or parent(s) immigration status.

If the child is going to stay in the Kingdom for the first 90 days and then 1 year at a time under the 1 year extension status then what about the parent(s) or guardians status.

If the parents or guardians are on multiple 60 day tourist visas why would the embassy issue the child a non immigrant visa as the child is considered attached to the guardian and therefore comes under the guardians immigration status.

This is what I was told by the 2 immigration officials.

Possibly you do not have to go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs before leaving the country and going to a Thai embassy but I can only surmise the reason for it is so that a person is assured the child will be given the 90 day non immigrant Visa and then the 1 year extension to be renewed every year...but it has to be performed by the parent who's granted immigration status is relevant to the child's immigration status.

If the foreign parent(s) are on a any kind of long term immigration status already and residing in Thailand alsready then one of the parents is decided to be the prime guardian who's immigration status is attached to the child's immigration status so that both the child and the chosen guardian renew their extension at the same time while it is the designated guardian who will apply on behalf of the child.

In this case of the OP the mother is on a tourist visa but wants to apply for a 1 year ED visa and also apply for a non immigrant visa for the child and then obtain the 1 year extension for the child.

( I suppose she could also apply for a 1 year education Visa for the child and maybe granted that immigration status for the child...you could try )

In her case, because she has to go to a Thai embassy anyhow and apply for the 1 year ED visa she will also apply for the 90 day non immigration visa for the child at the same time...but no assurance they will give her and or the child what she requests.

For myself and my child it was explained to me at the time by the 2 immigration officials.

If I wanted to begin to enact the "by the book", official way and means to obtain long term, year by year, immigration status extensions for my child to be attached to the mothers present immigration status, which is Non Immigrant "B" with a work permit, while the father is on a retirement extension status for 3 years now.........then first go to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and do the paper work first at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs ( Before ) going to a chosen Thai Embassy destination to apply for a non immigration visa for the child.

The immigration officials said it is best to attach the child to the Mothers present immigration status and when the mother renews her 1 year extension then the child would also be granted the 1 year extension at the same while the child is recognized as being attached , connected, being together, speaking on behalf of ...what ever way you want to call it or refer to it, the child's granted immigration status is relevant to the current immigration status of the mother...for the record.

Cheers

[Mario2008]

The ministry of Foreign Affairs does not issue a visa within Thailand, only outside Thailand through the Thai embassies and consulates.

Both have to apply for a visa abroad.

Children have their own immigration status and are not ":attached" to another person. They can be a dependent of an adult and have an immigration status as such or they have their own completely independent immigration status, where by a parent can be a dependent of the child.

Going to the Thai MFA is a waste of time in my humble opinion. I think you misunderstood what you were told.

[SiggiCM]

Your child is Thai by birth if his birth certificate shows a Thai as his father. Nothing more is needed than that.

Have you gotten a passport for your child yet?

I'm the only one on the birth certificate as his paperwork was not together at the time of birth. He wanted to use his brothers ID (proper papers) for the birth certificate but I absolutely refused- I'm not about to have my baby's paperwork muddled with fraud, especially claiming the father is a man I'd never even met at the time. Insane. My son does have a passport now (american) and we've traveled internationally already- he has the same multi entry tourist visa that I do at the moment.

I'm happy to hear that I can piggyback off my edu, but does that mean I must have my edu issued BEFORE I can apply for his or could I potentially do the paperwork together? If not at the same time, could I do his paperwork immediately after? As in, could I bring him to Penang with me, receive my visa from the embassy and the next day file for his, then both re-enter the kingdom together?

I've heard of the law where young children dont get overstay fines, but with so many laws suddenly changing, it seems like a risk that could result in a blacklist and could affect our overall ability to exist at least part time in this country. Also, if he was on overstay as a tourist, wouldnt it then potentially come up as a problem to travel abroad, especially on short trips? I assume that the same general standards for allowing foreigners to enter the kingdom would apply to children in regards of already having existing stamps- especially if there are overstays involved. It sounds like too much of a risk to rely on him being allowed to overstay and assume we could enter with me having my edu and him having nothing, or assuming an embassy will just continue to issue him a tourist visa.

As for him having an edu for pre-k, I'll look into it, but I'm pretty sure he's too young to join any place around here- and I'd be skeptical of actually dropping him off at a place that would allow it. Frankly, the education options on the island I live on are infamously rubbish, which have driven a lot of expats living here to develop homeschooling study groups for their kids- but unfortunately I dont believe that option offers the possibility of an edu visa as they're not officially registered. I'll look farther into that, but pretty sure I'll strike out.

I hope piggybacking will work for now, and maybe by the time another option is needed, his father will be able to offer some help at that point. He's from a small village in which her majesty the princess came to help all the stateless and paperwork-less children, but of course, he was too busy being a careless punk teenager in bkk during that time as he was sure such things would be irreverent in his life so didn't jump on the bandwagon while he still could. Now he's been informed he's too old to apply for such things and any attempts to sort him out have been rejected- aside from corruption, which thus far has been a black hole of empty promises at a price. I can't rely on all that working out, so unfortunately I have to operate under the idea that he may always be just as much of a foreigner here as I am- even though when you look at him he could pass for even a pure blood Thai.

ther is no fine and will be no fine for kids under 15 years, and if somebody write something else here its bullshit,

kids under 15 years are not responsible under law, so they cant be fined. same you cant be fined for your mothers overstay or husband or what ever. you can save all the money and time for visas, he will need when he will be 15 years, never before.