question about street food safety

[Albertosez]

Tom Tom, safe food and cheap food are different topics really. I feed my 2 x dogs ( for their evening meal ) 7 chicken breast per day purchased from either Macro or Tesco ( 3.5 breasts each ). This costs me approx 150 Baht for their evening meal. Personally, I will buy live fish from Markets because it can't be any fresher than being still alive, but I never buy uncooked meat because of the hygiene concerns. Myself and my partner can also live reasonably well on 7 chicken breasts per day.... With a few side flavours thrown in, not to mention a bowl of rice or noodles -then food can be fairly nourishing and relatively inexpensive! Let's say that for 250baht, we ( my partner and I ) can live ok - food wise. We actually spend a lot more on food, but I am just giving you a simple example. I would much rather buy and cook our own food than buy street food. Not entirely sure if I am answering your question, but food purchased through Macro, Tesco, Big. C etc has to at least pass through some sort of a QC system ( quality control ) Whilst this will always be compromised in counties like Thailand, at least there is some sort of structure in place. Good refrigeration and properly cooked meat will go long way to keeping you off the sick bed where food is concerned.

Unfortunately, I am not wealthy enough to retire and that won't be any time soon either. Every day represents an opportunity for me to earn something ( opportunity only ) - but if I can't get out of bed due to poor decision making about food and hygiene then I think that I am really shooting myself in he the foot - all for the sake of a few Baht !!

[Albertosez]

Furthermore, which is more important to me, even though we have big pile of dishes to wash every morning ( following dinner the night before ) - I just want to know and control ( where possible ) what ingredients go in to my food. I have to do something to off-set all the crap that I drink ( cheap wines ) because I can't control that, nor can I afford to drink the reasonable stuff ! Food is not expensive here, I just prefer to let my missus cook for me ( 50/ 50 - of course ! )

[Kasset Tak]

The thing is that it's not only here in Thailand it's bad food hygiene, have you ever seen "Kitchen Nightmares" with Gordon Ramsay?!

One of my own experiences in that area was my favorite pizzeria back home, the food and health department closed them because they did not have a single chicken in the freezers but a lot of pigeons!

Here in Thailand I look for the stalls and small restaurants that have a sign saying "Clean Food Good Taste" as they are checked by The Ministry of Public Health!

[KittenKong]

Even my coworkers tell me to stay away from chicken here in Thailand as most of the chicken comes from 2-3 big companies that feed way to much antibiotics and other things that are not to healthy to them.

I work in a agricultural college so my colleagues should know what they are talking about!

As do all of the big suppliers in the West.

I think you will find that the relevant rules and checks are all much more stringent in (most parts of) the west than they are here.

That said I think that intensively reared chicken is decidedly dodgy anywhere in the world. Free range organic poultry (if you can find it) is probably much better for you. And it has flavour too.

[Thaiberius]

When I see a street vendor wearing the blue plastic gloves I always stop and observe. Cooked/uncooked good it doesn't matter, they still handle the food with the same pair of gloves. I'm convinced the vendors have it in their minds the gloves are to stop cross-contamination from bare hands to food.

[thairastawoman]

I avoid chicken in Thailand. Elsewhere too for that matter, unless I know it is free range. There are far too many hormones and general nastiness involved in intensive chicken farming for my taste.

So far off topic, why the hell did you post it.

In reply to this: "However, when buying "fresh" chicken I'm never sure whether to go for the fly blown pieces on the top of the pile, or the pieces on the bottom that are floating in the salmonella soup."

As far as I know chicken is often found in street food, and as such presumably it is on topic.

Even my coworkers tell me to stay away from chicken here in Thailand as most of the chicken comes from 2-3 big companies that feed way to much antibiotics and other things that are not to healthy to them.

I work in a agricultural college so my colleagues should know what they are talking about!

Ridiculous to make it a local thing: any animal anywhere in the world is fed with antibiotics and fishes with pesticide.

People who do not know are people who do nto want to know and deserve the shiiite that will happen to them !

[Munger]

Never had problems with street food, or restaraunt food.Had plenty in Spain,uk usa, and Greece though

So the street food / restaraunt food is safe in Thailand, but it is best to avoid it in the UK / USA. Pathetic.

[jacko45k]

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I think I will continue to take care when eating 'street food'....... sticking to things that have just been cooked or on the BBQ, and being particularly wary during the hot season when I seem to get a few mild cases of dodgy food. Also no BUGs, or that rather dubious soup made by pouring barely hot stock over raw offal that has been sitting around a while.

Food poisoning is very unpleasant and as you get older, becomes dangerous.

In 11 years of eating Thai street food and various other outlets have only ever had one serious food poisoning, three days of unable to maintain anything in my stomach, and that was from a restaurant (Savoey) spelled as written, at Don Muang airport, never had a problem otherwise.

Yes, this is like the tale of the old man who smoked and drank until he died at 98 never having missed a day off work.

Those in the grave kept silent!

Serious food poisoning I can surely do without and I strive to lower the odds.

[Friendly Stranger]

Also, look at their appearance, how clean/well kept their utensils/bowls are and how everything is laid out and packaged, as this is a decent barometer. I always stay away from pre-cooked or using displayed meats that have been out.

[craigt3365]

When I see a street vendor wearing the blue plastic gloves I always stop and observe. Cooked/uncooked good it doesn't matter, they still handle the food with the same pair of gloves. I'm convinced the vendors have it in their minds the gloves are to stop cross-contamination from bare hands to food.

Money is one of the dirtiest things we deal with. So yes, it bothers me when they take my money with their gloves on and then touch my food. Or, put on gloves that look like they've been around since the last world war! LOL.

[Grindting]

It's not just the food you need to worry about. Also look at how they wash dishes. The water quality is often quite dubious. As is their handling of the food.

http://hepatitis.about.com/od/hepatitisa/a/HAVrestaurants.htm

https://sitata.com/alerts/hepatitis-a-street-food-vendors-suspected-as-cause-of-hepatitis-outbreak-in-costa-rica

I've seen street food vendors in Bangkok go to the local canal for water to wash dishes with. I've also seen them take uneaten rice off a customers plate and toss it back into the rice cooker.

Exactly why I NEVER eat the street food in Jakarta. Literally as filthy as you described and more, I've seen it all.. How about re-sealing mineral water bottles with filtered river water, putting used plastic straws from other food stands and adding to the boiling oil for a crispier fried banana.. The horrors of street buying in jakarta

[katana]

The fresh food vendors in the market that have their kids beating off the flies with an inflated plastic bag on a stick get a gold star from me. Those that have the little electric motor with two inflated plastic bags rotating on a bit of coat hanger wire get two gold stars.

But

I saw on the fresh market, when there were not many customer: Shop with meat, meat full with flies so he took the insect spray and sprayed the meat.....

More about that: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/696288-major-evidence-that-low-carb-diets-not-needed-for-long-term-weight-lossmaintenance-success/page-7#entry8028984

Yep, seen them spraying fly spray on the food as well.

But if you see them spraying the "fresh" meat with an innocuous looking spray bottle, be very wary. Formalin is being used as a preservative.

Murphy's choice - injest Maldison from the insect spray, or Formalin. My poison of choice would be the insect spray.

When I first came here, I used to think meat in Thailand was black until someone whacked it with a stick and the flies flew off.

[tropo]

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I think I will continue to take care when eating 'street food'....... sticking to things that have just been cooked or on the BBQ, and being particularly wary during the hot season when I seem to get a few mild cases of dodgy food. Also no BUGs, or that rather dubious soup made by pouring barely hot stock over raw offal that has been sitting around a while.

Food poisoning is very unpleasant and as you get older, becomes dangerous.

In 11 years of eating Thai street food and various other outlets have only ever had one serious food poisoning, three days of unable to maintain anything in my stomach, and that was from a restaurant (Savoey) spelled as written, at Don Muang airport, never had a problem otherwise.

Yes, this is like the tale of the old man who smoked and drank until he died at 98 never having missed a day off work.

Those in the grave kept silent!

Serious food poisoning I can surely do without and I strive to lower the odds.

OK, so in 11 years he's had one serious case of food poisoning, but what of the dozens of minor incidents along the way - or he has a very bad memory.

I wonder what parasites he's picked up over those 11 years without even knowing it.

There's so many good reasons NOT to eat street food, I can't believe that intelligent people are still going for it. I certainly can't think of any good reasons to eat it other than being totally broke and not being able to afford decent food. Personally I wouldn't be here if I was that broke, but each to their own.

Edited July 30, 2014 by tropo

[Kasset Tak]

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I think I will continue to take care when eating 'street food'....... sticking to things that have just been cooked or on the BBQ, and being particularly wary during the hot season when I seem to get a few mild cases of dodgy food. Also no BUGs, or that rather dubious soup made by pouring barely hot stock over raw offal that has been sitting around a while.

Food poisoning is very unpleasant and as you get older, becomes dangerous.

In 11 years of eating Thai street food and various other outlets have only ever had one serious food poisoning, three days of unable to maintain anything in my stomach, and that was from a restaurant (Savoey) spelled as written, at Don Muang airport, never had a problem otherwise.

Yes, this is like the tale of the old man who smoked and drank until he died at 98 never having missed a day off work.

Those in the grave kept silent!

Serious food poisoning I can surely do without and I strive to lower the odds.

OK, so in 11 years he's had one serious case of food poisoning, but what of the dozens of minor incidents along the way - or he has a very bad memory.

I wonder what parasites he's picked up over those 11 years without even knowing it.

There's so many good reasons NOT to eat street food, I can't believe that intelligent people are still going for it. I certainly can't think of any good reasons to eat it other than being totally broke and not being able to afford decent food. Personally I wouldn't be here if I was that broke, but each to their own.

Some people think that it's only the small noodle stalls and alike that just washes in cold water... I stayed at a 3 star hotel in Bangkok, B 1500 a night and in the morning I could see the kitchen staff sitting outside in the back of the hotel washing the dishes in the same way as in the small noodle stall. And I would dare to say that it's the same in many restaurants around the world. I have seen many restaurants where you would have to pay somewhere around $15, 20 or £30 for a single course back in the western world that I would consider equally dangerous because of poor food hygiene!

One other example I seen about washing would be in a German beer hall where they just emptied the glass from what was left and then dipped it in water to rinse it. They used no detergents as it would be bad for the taste if there would be any residues in the glass when pouring the next beer....

[jacko45k]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

In 11 years of eating Thai street food and various other outlets have only ever had one serious food poisoning, three days of unable to maintain anything in my stomach, and that was from a restaurant (Savoey) spelled as written, at Don Muang airport, never had a problem otherwise.

Yes, this is like the tale of the old man who smoked and drank until he died at 98 never having missed a day off work.

Those in the grave kept silent!

Serious food poisoning I can surely do without and I strive to lower the odds.

OK, so in 11 years he's had one serious case of food poisoning, but what of the dozens of minor incidents along the way - or he has a very bad memory.

I wonder what parasites he's picked up over those 11 years without even knowing it.

There's so many good reasons NOT to eat street food, I can't believe that intelligent people are still going for it. I certainly can't think of any good reasons to eat it other than being totally broke and not being able to afford decent food. Personally I wouldn't be here if I was that broke, but each to their own.

I used to regularly feel unwell on a Sunday afternoon..... a bit dizzy and bubbly in the gut...... couldn't figure it out until I stopped having the cold meats at the hotel breakfast buffet, and the symptoms stopped. It was a hot season thing too.... lots of flies near the buffet! There are plenty of 'mild' cases that perhaps I suffer from and hardier types never feel. I have certainly had some more serious cases in my life and I do not want to again. No harm in caution.

[tropo]

Some people think that it's only the small noodle stalls and alike that just washes in cold water... I stayed at a 3 star hotel in Bangkok, B 1500 a night and in the morning I could see the kitchen staff sitting outside in the back of the hotel washing the dishes in the same way as in the small noodle stall. And I would dare to say that it's the same in many restaurants around the world. I have seen many restaurants where you would have to pay somewhere around $15, 20 or £30 for a single course back in the western world that I would consider equally dangerous because of poor food hygiene!

One other example I seen about washing would be in a German beer hall where they just emptied the glass from what was left and then dipped it in water to rinse it. They used no detergents as it would be bad for the taste if there would be any residues in the glass when pouring the next beer....

As expected, when you say anything negative about street stall hygiene someone will counter with how poor the hygiene is in restaurants.

Of course one also has to be careful about eating at restaurants.

At least there will be running water in a restaurant - which puts them way ahead. There's no guarantees at either street stall or restaurant, but the odds are far worse at the street stall.

[Thaiberius]

The daytime street stall next to the entrance to Nana Plaza does a roaring trade, always full. Ticks all the boxes as for food turnover etc but I wouldn't go there if I was paid. There are two or three ratruns right where the stall is. I've sat in Zen Bar a few times watching the rats scuttling around.

[KittenKong]

As expected, when you say anything negative about street stall hygiene someone will counter with how poor the hygiene is in restaurants.

Of course one also has to be careful about eating at restaurants.

At least there will be running water in a restaurant - which puts them way ahead. There's no guarantees at either street stall or restaurant, but the odds are far worse at the street stall.

How many restaurant kitchens have you inspected for hygiene? I'll take my chances with what I can see, thanks, rather than just assuming that because I am paying more I am getting more.

I only ever had amoebic dysentery once and I got it from a fairly expensive and Italian-owned pizza restaurant.

And for what it's worth, the noodle stall outside the former Tops local store by the Hanuman monument in Jomtien does have access to running water from a tap, and they use it for all their dish washing.

[tropo]

As expected, when you say anything negative about street stall hygiene someone will counter with how poor the hygiene is in restaurants.

Of course one also has to be careful about eating at restaurants.

At least there will be running water in a restaurant - which puts them way ahead. There's no guarantees at either street stall or restaurant, but the odds are far worse at the street stall.

How many restaurant kitchens have you inspected for hygiene? I'll take my chances with what I can see, thanks, rather than just assuming that because I am paying more I am getting more.

I only ever had amoebic dysentery once and I got it from a fairly expensive and Italian-owned pizza restaurant.

And for what it's worth, the noodle stall outside the former Tops local store by the Hanuman monument in Jomtien does have access to running water from a tap, and they use it for all their dish washing.

I know all the places where I eat are clean. There's a lot of clean places to eat in Pattaya... try some Japanese restaurants. Perhaps they're out of your budget.

You're a mystery. You're a self proclaimed multi (dollar) millionaire, so why do you eat on the street? What is the attraction? I couldn't think of a worse place to dine (traffic noise and pollution, heat, flies, plastic chairs and dirty fold up tables, dirty sidewalks, sewer odors, cockroaches and rats) - all in addition to the dirty food, utensils and preparation techniques.

I must be missing something, because other than saving money I can't think of any reason to do it. Why take a gamble if you don't need to?

Edited July 30, 2014 by tropo

[tomtom345]

ok thanx all for your'e answers . there is no need to get in to stupid arguments about wether street food is safe or not ..... some people can handle street food while some simply can't . let's just leave it at that .

[tropo]

ok thanx all for your'e answers . there is no need to get in to stupid arguments about wether street food is safe or not ..... some people can handle street food while some simply can't . let's just leave it at that .

Considering you decided to insult contributors to this thread, it needs to be said...

...that it's actually rather stupid (to put it mildly) to start a thread on the safety of street food and then expect that no one will argue the pros and cons thereof.

[thairastawoman]

ok thanx all for your'e answers . there is no need to get in to stupid arguments about wether street food is safe or not ..... some people can handle street food while some simply can't . let's just leave it at that .

Wrong.

This is a fact, street food is not safe and even dirty, no need to argue about this, this is not an opinion.

The only opinion that people can have is that some don't care and eat it, some care and do not eat it.

But street food if of course not safe and anybody who doesn't understand this is plain stupid.

I also eat it from time to time, expecially boiled noodles as they are the safest, but still I don't think it's 100% safe.

[tomtom345]

ok thanx all for your'e answers . there is no need to get in to stupid arguments about wether street food is safe or not ..... some people can handle street food while some simply can't . let's just leave it at that .

Considering you decided to insult contributors to this thread, it needs to be said...

...that it's actually rather stupid (to put it mildly) to start a thread on the safety of street food and then expect that no one will argue the pros and cons thereof.

i didn't intend to insult you , if i did i'm sorry. calm down lol.

[tropo]

ok thanx all for your'e answers . there is no need to get in to stupid arguments about wether street food is safe or not ..... some people can handle street food while some simply can't . let's just leave it at that .

Considering you decided to insult contributors to this thread, it needs to be said...

...that it's actually rather stupid (to put it mildly) to start a thread on the safety of street food and then expect that no one will argue the pros and cons thereof.

i didn't intend to insult you , if i did i'm sorry. calm down lol.

"there is no need to get in to stupid arguments about wether (sic) street food is safe or not .."

I didn't know how else to take this comment.

Perhaps I'm a bit over-sensitive right now, as my mother in law in the Philippines is presently in hospital. Today is her third day and the bill (which I'm paying) has already gone over 20K and climbing. What's her problem? Severe diarrhea from contaminated water (we think). She is being fed via IV and on a course of injectable antibiotics. She's not going to die, but she would have had I not paid her hospital bill. She toughed it out for 3 days before she was rushed to hospital, because this particular bug is a bit nastier than usual.

The lesson here is that she has been "handling" unfiltered water all of her life, but this week she couldn't handle it. For the sake of trying to save money and not buying drinking water for a mere 30 peso per 19 liters she nearly died and I end up paying enough to buy around 20,000 liters of clean drinking water.She would have a "tougher" stomach than most of you, as she's been eating dirty food all her life.

Think of all the people in the world who have died from eating contaminated food. They also "handled" it until they died.

I'm sure most of us could take our chances and "handle" it. The question is whether or not we should. I eat to keep my body healthy. I don't like to experiment with dirty food in the hope I can survive, just to save money.

I'm still waiting for any street food junkies to give me a good reason to eat it other than just saving money.

Edited July 31, 2014 by tropo

[KittenKong]

I know all the places where I eat are clean.

How do you know? If you have not inspected their kitchens in person on that day then you know nothing.

You think you know the state of the kitchen based on the cleanliness of the eating area, that's all.

There's a lot of clean places to eat in Pattaya... try some Japanese restaurants. Perhaps they're out of your budget.

Ho hum. I eat at the Royal Cliff. It costs 1400B+. But I dont know how clean the kitchens are or whether the chef has cholera or whether he washes his hands after using the toilet. I can never know that, no matter where I am eating or how much I am paying. I accept that and I don't worry about it.

You're a mystery. You're a self proclaimed multi (dollar) millionaire, so why do you eat on the street? What is the attraction? I couldn't think of a worse place to dine (traffic noise and pollution, heat, flies, plastic chairs and dirty fold up tables, dirty sidewalks, sewer odors, cockroaches and rats) - all in addition to the dirty food, utensils and preparation techniques.

I must be missing something, because other than saving money I can't think of any reason to do it. Why take a gamble if you don't need to?

When I eat from stalls it is usually at Rompho market, or the new market on Theprasit. Neither of which suffers from traffic noise etc etc. and both of which offer a pleasant ambience and make me feel like I am in Asia rather than just in some air-conditioned restaurant that could be in Thailand or the US or anywhere else on the planet. Those restaurants have their place and I like going to them occasionally, but they would bore me silly if I used them every day.

Why do I eat at those markets? Because I can go there on foot, it is convenient and quick, and above all because it offers me a large selection of different food types to choose from in one small area, generally with each stall specialising in just one or two types of meal. It would be difficult to find the same variety in just one restaurant, and even if I did find such a restaurant by driving all over town I still would not get the varied taste benefits of the specialised cooks.

[Albertosez]

There are a lot of unexplained deaths in Asia- we know the reason that they are unexplained is because very few families spend / can spend the money to find out why they died, particularly those that die young and unexpectedly. However, I would guess that a good fair few are due to illnesses and medical conditions that have been caused by poor hygiene. Unclean food, unclean water, unclean environment - and if you have all three then I would think you are already in a high risk category. In addition to this, of course, there will a significant number that die due to the other illegal substances that they allow in to their bodies, plus the legal but dangerous cheap alcohol - but that's another debate !

[tropo]

Ho hum. I eat at the Royal Cliff. It costs 1400B+. But I dont know how clean the kitchens are or whether the chef has cholera or whether he washes his hands after using the toilet. I can never know that, no matter where I am eating or how much I am paying. I accept that and I don't worry about it.

LOL, you splash out on a decent meal how often? Once a year? You deserve it after groveling in the dirty market stalls all year round.

As I've been living in Asia for 15 years nearly full time, I relish eating in "un-Asian" style. Dining "un-Asian" affords me some time out, as I'm back in Asia when the meal is over.

BTW, What of Japanese? Is that not Asian? One of my favourite restaurants is Hachiban Ramen. You can watch them cook. Trust me mate, you cannot fault hygiene there. It's over the top. You can watch everything they do. Have you checked out Fuji? It's all in the open. Believe it of not, some restaurants pride themselves on hygiene.

That's pretty much the extent of my dining out - Japanese or at home. Over 90% at home. When I eat beef out, I always order the NZ beef to avoid tapeworms. I'm very particular about what I eat, even in clean restaurants. When I buy Thai beef I always freeze it first to kill tapeworm larvae.

One of the benefits of living in Pattaya is that there are many clean "un-Asian" restaurants to choose from.

Perhaps I don't see food preparation every step of the way everywhere I dine, but it sure beats the odds of dirty, crowded market stalls by a substantial degree.

Edited July 31, 2014 by tropo

[tropo]

When I eat from stalls it is usually at Rompho market, or the new market on Theprasit. Neither of which suffers from traffic noise etc etc. and both of which offer a pleasant ambience and make me feel like I am in Asia rather than just in some air-conditioned restaurant that could be in Thailand or the US or anywhere else on the planet. Those restaurants have their place and I like going to them occasionally, but they would bore me silly if I used them every day.

Why do I eat at those markets? Because I can go there on foot, it is convenient and quick, and above all because it offers me a large selection of different food types to choose from in one small area, generally with each stall specialising in just one or two types of meal. It would be difficult to find the same variety in just one restaurant, and even if I did find such a restaurant by driving all over town I still would not get the varied taste benefits of the specialised cooks.

I'm still waiting for a good reason to eat on the street, not excuses.