Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[auntyedna]

Different rather than better.If he knows the PM, Minister of Interior or a Privy Councillor (much lower than that won't hack it) who is willing to intervene and overrule a tried and tested procedure, so be it.Older and wiser hands will know whether this is likely.

It's not done quite that way, in my experience, "intervening and overruling", that is. It would be a friendly phone call between the influential person and the Immigration Officer or the chairman of the key approval committee along the lines of: "By the way, I believe AuntyEdna's PR application is heading your way. I know her quite well. Good sort and quite deserving of PR in my view. Do bear this in mind when you vet her application." After that, the officer may "bear in mind" not only the merits of AuntyEdna's credentials, but the relative "head-heights" of himself and the influential person. It all helps.

Intervention and overruling in legal matters is another story, though...

It's "not done that way" for reasons which I would have thought were made obvious in my post.

It doesn't all help and your advice is poor.People like you always seem to think think results can be achieved in Thailand by the exercise of influence.Sometimes of course it happens but not I think to a significant degree in the processing of PR.The process within the Immigration Department is crystal clear and the hypothetical friendly phone call you mention will actually make no difference in the best scenario (assuming the caller has real influence, very unlikely - see previous comments) and counterproductive in the worst scenario.A supporting letter/s is sometimes provided from a senior Thai but certainly isn't essential.Actually when dissected your advice is meaningless.What does "bear in mind" mean anyway in a context when the rules are clear and transparent ?

Thank you jayboy. 1. If you read my post again you will see that I didn't say anything about "advice" I said "in my experience", ten years of it in fact, working with a multitude of government departments and ministries. I translated that experience into a hypothetical conversation. 2. Which Thailand are you living in? Results are achieved by the exercise of influence, notwithstanding doubts expressed with regard to PR in this forum. Just read the newspapers! 3. The fact that there are at this moment 171,944 postings in this particular sub-forum indicates to me rather strongly that the rules are not quite as clear and transparent as you suggest.

[jayboy]

Thank you jayboy. 1. If you read my post again you will see that I didn't say anything about "advice" I said "in my experience", ten years of it in fact, working with a multitude of government departments and ministries. I translated that experience into a hypothetical conversation. 2. Which Thailand are you living in? Results are achieved by the exercise of influence, notwithstanding doubts expressed with regard to PR in this forum. Just read the newspapers! 3. The fact that there are at this moment 171,944 postings in this particular sub-forum indicates to me rather strongly that the rules are not quite as clear and transparent as you suggest.

The point of this thread is to help those interested in achieving PR with practical advice, not a stream of unsubstantiated and uninformed blather about how important " influence" is in the process.We are talking specifically about PR where the rules are definitely clear and transparent, not other aspects of Thai society and life where the position is sometimes murkier.There is an excellent resource on all this by Camerata and a few others providing useful and practical information.

If the rules are not clear to some readers of the forum that may well be because the position on PR has been confused by a few peddlars of ignorant nonsense about influence.

[perax]

dear Jayboy, I really get the impression you can't conceive how somebody migth not always agree with you. You can't convince us, we can't convince you, so let's leave this to rest.

[jayboy]

dear Jayboy, I really get the impression you can't conceive how somebody migth not always agree with you. You can't convince us, we can't convince you, so let's leave this to rest.

I thought this thread was about helping potential PR applicants with the process, not about winning or not winning arguments (which I feely admit is the case in the political forums).However if you insist I would point out that those that believe that "influence'' of one sort or another can trump or make irrelevant all or any of the well established PR rules have completely failed to prove their case.So the advice to PR applicants remains the same - follow the rules well set out in Camerata's guide.

[stbkk]

I have just received word from my lawyer that the Minister has already signed the applications submitted to him.

This should include the 2006 batch. I'm not sure about the 2007 batch, though.

Thank you Working Joe for updating us on the progress of the PR applications. It is very useful to receive this type of feedback as we are all waiting patiently for some news and avenues for realtime information is somewhat limited. An earlier poster mentioned that the 2007 applications would also be sent to the Ministry of Interior this week so I hope this might bring some finalization for both the 2006 and 2007 applicants. Did your lawyer mention whether the approval letters will be sent out soon as I understand that all the PR recipients needs to finalize the PR docs within 1 month of the Minister's signature?

Many thanks again!

My lawyer conservatively stated that I should get my PR permit 'before the end of this year', but his information about the Minister signing the applications came straight from the top people at Room 301, so I believe the approval letters should come very soon.

Anybody have any thoughts on how the move to Chaeng Wattana will affect this?

[grtaylor]

I have just received word from my lawyer that the Minister has already signed the applications submitted to him.

This should include the 2006 batch. I'm not sure about the 2007 batch, though.

Thank you Working Joe for updating us on the progress of the PR applications. It is very useful to receive this type of feedback as we are all waiting patiently for some news and avenues for realtime information is somewhat limited. An earlier poster mentioned that the 2007 applications would also be sent to the Ministry of Interior this week so I hope this might bring some finalization for both the 2006 and 2007 applicants. Did your lawyer mention whether the approval letters will be sent out soon as I understand that all the PR recipients needs to finalize the PR docs within 1 month of the Minister's signature?

Many thanks again!

My lawyer conservatively stated that I should get my PR permit 'before the end of this year', but his information about the Minister signing the applications came straight from the top people at Room 301, so I believe the approval letters should come very soon.

Anybody have any thoughts on how the move to Chaeng Wattana will affect this?

dam_n - dam_n - dam_n - I knew this would happen. Here I am, out of Thailand, working overseas for at least two years, and my application gets signed (2006 applicant). What can I do??? When I come back at Christmas (cannot get back earlier) it will probably be too bloody late, and I'll be on a 30-day entry stamp anyway. This makes me SO pissed off . . . . .

[DoctorD]

I believe the multiple-choice Thai test ceased after my 2006 application, to be replaced by an interview panel firing unprepared questions at the candidate. Can anyone who applied in 2007 confirm this?

G

Yes, that was my experience (applied in 2007). It was fairly easy though. My Thai is only so-so, but the questions were quite simple, and the panel was pretty friendly. I was incredibly nervous and very relieved when it turned out to be well within my capabilities.

BTW - they told me to come to Immigration on the day of the interviews at 10 AM. When I got there at 10, almost everyone else had clearly got there first, and had lower numbers in the queue. I had to wait until about 2PM for my interview (which made me even more nervous, of course!)

DoctorD

[DoctorD]

By the way, a big thanks to the moderators who referred me here from my original question yesterday. It's good to get some information on progress, even if it appears to be slow.

Cheers,

DoctorD

[auntyedna]

dear Jayboy, I really get the impression you can't conceive how somebody migth not always agree with you. You can't convince us, we can't convince you, so let's leave this to rest.

I thought this thread was about helping potential PR applicants with the process, not about winning or not winning arguments (which I feely admit is the case in the political forums).However if you insist I would point out that those that believe that "influence'' of one sort or another can trump or make irrelevant all or any of the well established PR rules have completely failed to prove their case.So the advice to PR applicants remains the same - follow the rules well set out in Camerata's guide.

Perax,

May jayboy continue to misinterpret postings on this site and may he believe what he wants to believe. And may the rest of us ignore him and move on...

[jayboy]

dear Jayboy, I really get the impression you can't conceive how somebody migth not always agree with you. You can't convince us, we can't convince you, so let's leave this to rest.

I thought this thread was about helping potential PR applicants with the process, not about winning or not winning arguments (which I feely admit is the case in the political forums).However if you insist I would point out that those that believe that "influence'' of one sort or another can trump or make irrelevant all or any of the well established PR rules have completely failed to prove their case.So the advice to PR applicants remains the same - follow the rules well set out in Camerata's guide.

Perax,

May jayboy continue to misinterpret postings on this site and may he believe what he wants to believe. And may the rest of us ignore him and move on...

You wrote that results on PR are obtained by the exercise of influence.They aren't.

[camerata]

Some posts containing bickering and name-calling have been deleted. My original guide was an account of my own experience. In other words it was 100% factual at that time and in my particular situation. This topic is the best resource for PR anywhere on the web (and it's called a "Guide to the PR Process") so let's try and stick to people's experience and keep the speculation to a minimum. As for whether corruption has ever been a part of the process, it will never be proved so I don't see much point in arguing about it.

[HKTMAN]

Hi there, l was awarded a Residency Permit last year! If anyone one wants any tips then let me know... It takes alot of patience, lots of interviews, tests, VDO interviews etc etc, ........Good luck.

Hi,krismat89

I had a plan to applying thai PR the end of this year,under hamality catogery.I had lived and worked legally in thailand for the past 12 yrs and now I had a thai wife and a child for almost 5 yrs.I'm not a high educator.So,am I qualify for apply thai PR.Thanks

HKTMAN

[Dork]

Hi there, l was awarded a Residency Permit last year! If anyone one wants any tips then let me know... It takes alot of patience, lots of interviews, tests, VDO interviews etc etc, ........Good luck.

Hi,krismat89

I had a plan to applying thai PR the end of this year,under hamality catogery.I had lived and worked legally in thailand for the past 12 yrs and now I had a thai wife and a child for almost 5 yrs.I'm not a high educator.So,am I qualify for apply thai PR.Thanks

HKTMAN

On the surface from what you say, it sounds like you will qualify to apply. It is a points based qualification system and education is only one part. From memory, education can contribute a maximum of 5 points out of 100 and even a high school diploma will gain you some points.

[Mario2008]

1 off topic post deleted. This thread is about Permanent Residency only.

[kcallagmy]

any news from 2006/2007 applicants?? Been quiet lately...

[stbkk]

I'm guessing that any progress that might have happened has been stalled by the Immigration move from Suan Plu.

In a best case scenario (my own fantasy world?) the letters are all ready to be sent out as soon as they are all settled in at the new office in CW.

[grtaylor]

I'm guessing that any progress that might have happened has been stalled by the Immigration move from Suan Plu.

In a best case scenario (my own fantasy world?) the letters are all ready to be sent out as soon as they are all settled in at the new office in CW.

So, here's an interesting question. I applied in the 2006 intake. I'm no longer in Thailand (although I do intend to retire there), as I have a job overseas (Cebu, Philippines) for at least the next two years.

When I come back in December for Christmas/New Year, I will presumably be on a 30-day entry permit. If the letters come out, and my time in Thailand is within the 30 days in which it has to be dealt with, will I still be able to take up the offer of Residency?

Would it be different if I applied for a Visa at the Thai Embassy in Manila?

Any advice appreciated - or indeed a contact who could ask the question for me at Immigration.

Thanks,

Graham

[Working Joe]

I'm guessing that any progress that might have happened has been stalled by the Immigration move from Suan Plu.

In a best case scenario (my own fantasy world?) the letters are all ready to be sent out as soon as they are all settled in at the new office in CW.

The move officially took effect on 28 September. So I suppose they would have settled in after this date

[stbkk]

Has anybody been to ChaengWattana for an extension, yet?

A trip report with some hints on where to go etc. would be great, if possible.

Also any news you might have picked up?

[grtaylor]

Just had an email from my former place of employment in BKK saying that a letter has arrived saying my PR has been approved (2006), and that I have to deal with it in 30 days . . . . .

This is SO FRUSTRATING, as I'm out of the country, not working there, and won't be back until mid-December.

I really can't see any way out of this . . . . . I'm stuffed, and all that work in applying is wasted! Does anyone know a good lawyer, who might be able to negotiate on my behalf?

G

[tombkk]

Just had an email from my former place of employment in BKK saying that a letter has arrived saying my PR has been approved (2006), and that I have to deal with it in 30 days . . . . .

This is SO FRUSTRATING, as I'm out of the country, not working there, and won't be back until mid-December.

I really can't see any way out of this . . . . . I'm stuffed, and all that work in applying is wasted! Does anyone know a good lawyer, who might be able to negotiate on my behalf?

G

Well, you have the choice of coming to Thailand (calling in sick at work, applying for a well-needed vacation, use your phantasy) or forfeiting your application. If you don't live in Thailand, you are not a "permanent resident" anyway, so please do not complain about the Thai government if they don't recognize you as such. How would you defend being a permanent resident in Thailand while being permanently in another country and cannot even come to Thailand to receive your *permanent* residency? I don't get your point, kindly explain.

For the rest of us (who really are permanent residents), thank you for the good news that 2006 applications are being approved eventually.

[grtaylor]

Just had an email from my former place of employment in BKK saying that a letter has arrived saying my PR has been approved (2006), and that I have to deal with it in 30 days . . . . .

This is SO FRUSTRATING, as I'm out of the country, not working there, and won't be back until mid-December.

I really can't see any way out of this . . . . . I'm stuffed, and all that work in applying is wasted! Does anyone know a good lawyer, who might be able to negotiate on my behalf?

G

Well, you have the choice of coming to Thailand (calling in sick at work, applying for a well-needed vacation, use your phantasy) or forfeiting your application. If you don't live in Thailand, you are not a "permanent resident" anyway, so please do not complain about the Thai government if they don't recognize you as such. How would you defend being a permanent resident in Thailand while being permanently in another country and cannot even come to Thailand to receive your *permanent* residency? I don't get your point, kindly explain.

For the rest of us (who really are permanent residents), thank you for the good news that 2006 applications are being approved eventually.

For your information I will explain.

I lived and worked in Thailand for nineteen years, legally, with a work permit, and decided almost three years to apply for PR. I had decided that Thailand was the place to be, for good. I was told at the time it would take around 18 months for a decision.

Unfortunately, since then two things over which I had no control, happened:

• political problems (presumably) changed the length of time it takes to process applications
  
• my job here finished, and, as I found no other suitable job in my field in Thailand, had to search overseas
  

I do not consider myself "permanently in another country", I consider myself temporarily absent whilst looking for a suitable job to return to.

My frustration is purely that I did what I thought was the right thing, but, circumstances (and I say again) over which I had no control, have ruined my chances.

As a teacher I can't "apply for a vacation" in the middle of a term, nor is it my work ethic to call in sick when I am not.

I think I am entitled to feel very disappointed at the way it has turned out . . . . . .

[samran]

Just had an email from my former place of employment in BKK saying that a letter has arrived saying my PR has been approved (2006), and that I have to deal with it in 30 days . . . . .

This is SO FRUSTRATING, as I'm out of the country, not working there, and won't be back until mid-December.

I really can't see any way out of this . . . . . I'm stuffed, and all that work in applying is wasted! Does anyone know a good lawyer, who might be able to negotiate on my behalf?

G

Well, you have the choice of coming to Thailand (calling in sick at work, applying for a well-needed vacation, use your phantasy) or forfeiting your application. If you don't live in Thailand, you are not a "permanent resident" anyway, so please do not complain about the Thai government if they don't recognize you as such. How would you defend being a permanent resident in Thailand while being permanently in another country and cannot even come to Thailand to receive your *permanent* residency? I don't get your point, kindly explain.

For the rest of us (who really are permanent residents), thank you for the good news that 2006 applications are being approved eventually.

A bit harsh there, no?

Anyway, to GRTaylor.

My view on it is this...you sound like you have a great work ethic..and you are comitted to your employer, which is nice....BUT....I don't think you should let that be the determining factor in a situation like this.

Life isn't work, your life, yourself (and family) should always come before work. If PR in Thailand is going to make your life and family happier in the long run, I'd come and get it.

This is only a one time chance. Sure the politics of it all has meant that the timing is lousy, but if it was me, I'd come and get the paper work done, and if you lose your job because of it, you can always get another one (I mean, it is only a job!).

Frankly, given you are an experienced teacher, I don't even think you'll lose your job. Just tell your work that you need to go to Thailand for a week or two..and that it is unavoidable. Tell them you'll do it with out pay, and that you are sorry for the incovinence it causes. But don't give them a choice in the matter. Take it or leave it.

I've got a couple of friends who had worked their nuts off in Thailand, and found that they were in a position to retire at quite a young age. I tried to convince them as much as I could to apply for PR, which they would have got in a sinch given their backgrounds.

They decided against it, and now, though they have retired (well before 50) they are living here in thailand doing border runs..and getting increasingly pissed off by them. It sounds like you want to come back to Thailand, and quite soon. Doing so as a PR will mean you have the feedom to do so without any more government hassels.

[Arkady]

Just had an email from my former place of employment in BKK saying that a letter has arrived saying my PR has been approved (2006), and that I have to deal with it in 30 days . . . . .

This is SO FRUSTRATING, as I'm out of the country, not working there, and won't be back until mid-December.

I really can't see any way out of this . . . . . I'm stuffed, and all that work in applying is wasted! Does anyone know a good lawyer, who might be able to negotiate on my behalf?

G

Well, you have the choice of coming to Thailand (calling in sick at work, applying for a well-needed vacation, use your phantasy) or forfeiting your application. If you don't live in Thailand, you are not a "permanent resident" anyway, so please do not complain about the Thai government if they don't recognize you as such. How would you defend being a permanent resident in Thailand while being permanently in another country and cannot even come to Thailand to receive your *permanent* residency? I don't get your point, kindly explain.

For the rest of us (who really are permanent residents), thank you for the good news that 2006 applications are being approved eventually.

For your information I will explain.

I lived and worked in Thailand for nineteen years, legally, with a work permit, and decided almost three years to apply for PR. I had decided that Thailand was the place to be, for good. I was told at the time it would take around 18 months for a decision.

Unfortunately, since then two things over which I had no control, happened:

• political problems (presumably) changed the length of time it takes to process applications
  
• my job here finished, and, as I found no other suitable job in my field in Thailand, had to search overseas
  

I do not consider myself "permanently in another country", I consider myself temporarily absent whilst looking for a suitable job to return to.

My frustration is purely that I did what I thought was the right thing, but, circumstances (and I say again) over which I had no control, have ruined my chances.

As a teacher I can't "apply for a vacation" in the middle of a term, nor is it my work ethic to call in sick when I am not.

I think I am entitled to feel very disappointed at the way it has turned out . . . . . .

As Samran says, it is worth making some effort to finalized your PR, if you are sure you want to come and live in Thailand again in the future. I don't think they ask to see your WP or scrutinize your passport to check that you are still resident here but things may have changed. So beware of that point, even if you can come here. It is bad luck how things have worked out but bear in mind that you are no longer technically qualified for PR by virtue of having taken up full time employment in another country.

On another note, it is good news that they are now approving the 2006 batch. Most are probably already qualified to apply for citizenship by now.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Arkady

[Arkady]

Something to be aware of for those contemplating applying for PR. I can't give too many details for fear of compromising the case but I know of some one who mentioned his voluntary activities for a certain organization of which he is on the board in his letter extolling his contribution to Thai society. The net result was that he had to dig himself out of a hole with Immigration who threatened prosecution and to trash his PR application because he didn't have a work permit to be on the board of the voluntary organization. Be warned. A work permit is required for any type of work, paid or unpaid.

[aaoaahq]

Just had an email from my former place of employment in BKK saying that a letter has arrived saying my PR has been approved (2006), and that I have to deal with it in 30 days . . . . .

This is SO FRUSTRATING, as I'm out of the country, not working there, and won't be back until mid-December.

I really can't see any way out of this . . . . . I'm stuffed, and all that work in applying is wasted! Does anyone know a good lawyer, who might be able to negotiate on my behalf?

G

Well, you have the choice of coming to Thailand (calling in sick at work, applying for a well-needed vacation, use your phantasy) or forfeiting your application. If you don't live in Thailand, you are not a "permanent resident" anyway, so please do not complain about the Thai government if they don't recognize you as such. How would you defend being a permanent resident in Thailand while being permanently in another country and cannot even come to Thailand to receive your *permanent* residency? I don't get your point, kindly explain.

For the rest of us (who really are permanent residents), thank you for the good news that 2006 applications are being approved eventually.

For your information I will explain.

I lived and worked in Thailand for nineteen years, legally, with a work permit, and decided almost three years to apply for PR. I had decided that Thailand was the place to be, for good. I was told at the time it would take around 18 months for a decision.

Unfortunately, since then two things over which I had no control, happened:

• political problems (presumably) changed the length of time it takes to process applications
  
• my job here finished, and, as I found no other suitable job in my field in Thailand, had to search overseas
  

I do not consider myself "permanently in another country", I consider myself temporarily absent whilst looking for a suitable job to return to.

My frustration is purely that I did what I thought was the right thing, but, circumstances (and I say again) over which I had no control, have ruined my chances.

As a teacher I can't "apply for a vacation" in the middle of a term, nor is it my work ethic to call in sick when I am not.

I think I am entitled to feel very disappointed at the way it has turned out . . . . . .

As Samran says, it is worth making some effort to finalized your PR, if you are sure you want to come and live in Thailand again in the future. I don't think they ask to see your WP or scrutinize your passport to check that you are still resident here but things may have changed. So beware of that point, even if you can come here. It is bad luck how things have worked out but bear in mind that you are no longer technically qualified for PR by virtue of having taken up full time employment in another country.

On another note, it is good news that they are now approving the 2006 batch. Most are probably already qualified to apply for citizenship by now.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news (maybe good news for grtaylor), but I phoned the PR section today to ascertain whether the 2006/2007 applications have actually been signed by the Interior Minister or not. The answer given was that none of the applications have been signed yet and that they are still sitting in the MoI. Apparently they have even started sending 2008 applications to the MoI as well. They also could not give a timeline for the signatures either. You can phone directly yourselves on: 02-141-9899

So it seems like we need to wait a little longer.

[Haddo]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news (maybe good news for grtaylor), but I phoned the PR section today to ascertain whether the 2006/2007 applications have actually been signed by the Interior Minister or not. The answer given was that none of the applications have been signed yet and that they are still sitting in the MoI. Apparently they have even started sending 2008 applications to the MoI as well. They also could not give a timeline for the signatures either. You can phone directly yourselves on: 02-141-9899

So it seems like we need to wait a little longer.

thanks for sharing that - some good news for one of us (grtaylor) at least as you say!

[Haddo]

Apparently the issue of the delay to the Permanent Residency Applications was raised in the Thai parliament earlier this week (on Wednesday I was told).

I don't know any further details though.

[stbkk]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news (maybe good news for grtaylor), but I phoned the PR section today to ascertain whether the 2006/2007 applications have actually been signed by the Interior Minister or not. The answer given was that none of the applications have been signed yet and that they are still sitting in the MoI. Apparently they have even started sending 2008 applications to the MoI as well. They also could not give a timeline for the signatures either. You can phone directly yourselves on: 02-141-9899

So it seems like we need to wait a little longer.

Any updates? Has anybody else had a letter yet? I certainly haven't.

As far as the 2008 applications go, one of my friends applied in that entry and has heard nothing since his documents were accepted. No interview yet, no noticable progress at all. He wasn't very amused when he heard some applications have apparently gone to the MoI already, either.

[sanitex]

hello

there's something i'd like to know or ask,is't possible to get thai ID card without first have their resident permit?pls any information will be help