Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[stbkk]

I (I'm a Brit) got my 'certificate of no criminal record' from the UK, and it had to be certified by the British Embassy here, also, I seem to remember. Its basically an official document from your home country certifying you have no criminal record. In the UK this consists of a list of police data held about you, which is provided under the freedom of infomration laws, which is of course blank if you have no record.

I do remember it was almost the easiest of all of the required documents to get, surprisingly enough.

Good luck with your application, I hope it comes through quicker than mine (2006 and still waiting).

Did you have an "enhanced", "standard" or "basic" criminal record check?

Is a "basic certificate" good enough? I believe this wouldn't show minor offences such as drink driving.

RAZZ

As I mentioned above, all I got was the information available via the freedom of information act in the UK, which is not a 'criminal record check' at all, just a simple list of information held about you by the police. If you are not from the UK its possibly different for you, as the Aussies posting above say.

If you are a Brit you can get it by going to the Scotland yard web site, and then navigating your way through to your local constabulary, where you should be able to find details of how to apply. Mine cost me 10 pounds, which was a lot less than the embassy here charged to certify it!

[manarak]

I read the first pages of this thread, especially about the requirements for PR, and I got 2 questions:

(1) Is it possible to obtain a PR without working? If for example I got money/shares in companies in the UK or Germany and I get dividends from them...

(2) If PR is obtained, does that change the tax treatment of those capital incomes received from abroad?

[stbkk]

I read the first pages of this thread, especially about the requirements for PR, and I got 2 questions:

(1) Is it possible to obtain a PR without working? If for example I got money/shares in companies in the UK or Germany and I get dividends from them...

(2) If PR is obtained, does that change the tax treatment of those capital incomes received from abroad?

No. You need to have had a work permit for 3 years, and 3 years tax records.

[aussiebebe]

Firstly, thank you to other board members for explaining about the 'no-criminal record' - very clear advice. No problems.

Secondly; I intend to apply under category C as I have a Thai wife and we have a son together. If RPs are like gold-dust and I'm wasting my time then, please, someone just tell me....because....

The RP requirements state that you need a DNA test if your 'marriage is incomplete for five years' and I will have been married to my wife for four years when I apply in December. I went to a government hospital last week to get the required DNA test only to be told that I needed a letter from immigration and police about getting the tests.

Okay, so I already went to the main immigration place 'Suan-Pluu' last year and they gave me copies of the RP requirements; no letter or mention of any letter. So I told this to the lady in charge of DNA tests and she said loads of foreigners come all the time, all with letters, and she even showed me one to prove her point.

Can anyone enlighten me? Do I apply in December and then get a letter? Do I go and get a letter now?

[Arkady]

The eternal question:is it worth it?

Some years ago my answer was:NO

The latest developments confirmed(IMHO)this truth.

Definitely a tough question to answer.

If I'd have known when I applied two and a half years ago I'd still be waiting now, I'm not sure I'd have gone through with it.

However, I have several mates who are long term settled here with wives and families, who tell me they

wish they had done it when they were working.

Probably the deciding factor for me would be a certain degree of peace of mind. Should I lose my job I won't need to worry about what visa etc. I need to try and get (in 7 days, I understand!) to stay with the wife and kids.

I've also mentioned in a previous post you are never certain what is going to happen with the visa situation. They always seem to be changing the rules, and I guess there is no guarantee that what you can get now will still be around in the future. While they seem to make some changes to the process, it seems that once you have 'PR', they actually do mean P!

It must be incredibly frustrating to wait so long, particularly for the 2006 batch. You have to decide for yourselves whether it is worth it for you. My sense is that whatever logjams that have formed at the Interior Ministry will have to give soon and both batches will suddenly be completed. At any rate once you've put in the documents and done the interviews, it is only a question of waiting. They don't normally ask for anything else except patience and once you've got it you've got it and you don't have to worry about what happens if you lose your job or whatever. Then you can start thinking about applying for citizenship!

The only certainty is that it is the longer you wait the harder it will get. None of these notarized documents, criminal records etc were required in the mid 90s and it was much cheaper but at the time it also seemed a big hassle. I remember several farangs who had poo pooed it later going through personal crises when they suddenly lost their jobs in the late 90s economic collapse and had to leave the country to do visa runs and get Thai friends to buy them mobile phones and things they couldn't get as tourists.

[dbrenn]

It must be incredibly frustrating to wait so long, particularly for the 2006 batch. You have to decide for yourselves whether it is worth it for you. My sense is that whatever logjams that have formed at the Interior Ministry will have to give soon and both batches will suddenly be completed. At any rate once you've put in the documents and done the interviews, it is only a question of waiting. They don't normally ask for anything else except patience and once you've got it you've got it and you don't have to worry about what happens if you lose your job or whatever. Then you can start thinking about applying for citizenship!

The only certainty is that it is the longer you wait the harder it will get. None of these notarized documents, criminal records etc were required in the mid 90s and it was much cheaper but at the time it also seemed a big hassle. I remember several farangs who had poo pooed it later going through personal crises when they suddenly lost their jobs in the late 90s economic collapse and had to leave the country to do visa runs and get Thai friends to buy them mobile phones and things they couldn't get as tourists.

The waiting time is ridiculous, and like you say it does get tougher, as do immigration rules everywhere.

While applying for PR is a hassle, like you say it is well worth having for the peace of mind. I can also think of examples of people who didn't bother with it who were caught short when their jobs fell through and they were relegated to tourist visa status with all the uncertainty and hassle that entails.

Once PR is done, you can forget about it and enjoy never having to worry about expiring visas again. Get it while you can, is the best advice.

[perax]

..

Secondly; I intend to apply under category C as I have a Thai wife and we have a son together. If RPs are like gold-dust and I'm wasting my time then, please, someone just tell me....because....

The RP requirements state that you need a DNA test if your 'marriage is incomplete for five years' and I will have been married to my wife for four years when I apply in December. I went to a government hospital last week to get the required DNA test only to be told that I needed a letter from immigration and police about getting the tests.

Hello aussiebebe,

from what I understand, it seems that during one of these famous meetings in May 2009 the immigration commission decided to request a DNA test for *all* these that applied under the 'supporting a Thai family' category, regardless of the length of the marriage. This was not a requirement when I applied in 2007.

I do not know if this requirement will be applied to 2008 or 2009 applicants.

We have also been told that the immigration department will formally notify us of the requirement (via letter), and that we have the option of not doing it. They said that the DNA test is worth 10 'points' for my application.

I'd be happy to know how this would matter, though. Is there a minimum threshold in 'points' for an application to be accepted, or is this used to rank applications? I cannot imagine more than 100 applicants of my nationality.

Thanks.

[Mario2008]

It is my understanding that they use a point system, for every part of the requirement. For instance how higher the ammount of tax you pay, the more points you will score for that part. The better Thai you speak, the higher the score is for that part. You need a minimum total score to be approved.

[aaoaahq]

..

Secondly; I intend to apply under category C as I have a Thai wife and we have a son together. If RPs are like gold-dust and I'm wasting my time then, please, someone just tell me....because....

The RP requirements state that you need a DNA test if your 'marriage is incomplete for five years' and I will have been married to my wife for four years when I apply in December. I went to a government hospital last week to get the required DNA test only to be told that I needed a letter from immigration and police about getting the tests.

Hello aussiebebe,

from what I understand, it seems that during one of these famous meetings in May 2009 the immigration commission decided to request a DNA test for *all* these that applied under the 'supporting a Thai family' category, regardless of the length of the marriage. This was not a requirement when I applied in 2007.

I do not know if this requirement will be applied to 2008 or 2009 applicants.

We have also been told that the immigration department will formally notify us of the requirement (via letter), and that we have the option of not doing it. They said that the DNA test is worth 10 'points' for my application.

I'd be happy to know how this would matter, though. Is there a minimum threshold in 'points' for an application to be accepted, or is this used to rank applications? I cannot imagine more than 100 applicants of my nationality.

Thanks.

Yes, immigration will either send you the letter requesting a DNA test or you can pick it up at Room 301. The minimum points needed to pass is 50 out of 100, so if your application scores 60 or below then the 10 point reduction in your score could make or break your chances of approval.

Is there any news for 2006/2007 applicants that recently visited Room 301?

[stbkk]

..

Secondly; I intend to apply under category C as I have a Thai wife and we have a son together. If RPs are like gold-dust and I'm wasting my time then, please, someone just tell me....because....

The RP requirements state that you need a DNA test if your 'marriage is incomplete for five years' and I will have been married to my wife for four years when I apply in December. I went to a government hospital last week to get the required DNA test only to be told that I needed a letter from immigration and police about getting the tests.

Hello aussiebebe,

from what I understand, it seems that during one of these famous meetings in May 2009 the immigration commission decided to request a DNA test for *all* these that applied under the 'supporting a Thai family' category, regardless of the length of the marriage. This was not a requirement when I applied in 2007.

I do not know if this requirement will be applied to 2008 or 2009 applicants.

We have also been told that the immigration department will formally notify us of the requirement (via letter), and that we have the option of not doing it. They said that the DNA test is worth 10 'points' for my application.

I'd be happy to know how this would matter, though. Is there a minimum threshold in 'points' for an application to be accepted, or is this used to rank applications? I cannot imagine more than 100 applicants of my nationality.

Thanks.

Yes, immigration will either send you the letter requesting a DNA test or you can pick it up at Room 301. The minimum points needed to pass is 50 out of 100, so if your application scores 60 or below then the 10 point reduction in your score could make or break your chances of approval.

Is there any news for 2006/2007 applicants that recently visited Room 301?

That looks like 10 points out of the 50 I need are in the bag, then! Just hope I don't die of old age before it gets approved.

Also, you need to be careful about having the test done to soon, because many of the documents have to be stamped/approved etc. within 3 months of your application.

Good luck!

[aussiebebe]

..

Secondly; I intend to apply under category C as I have a Thai wife and we have a son together. If RPs are like gold-dust and I'm wasting my time then, please, someone just tell me....because....

The RP requirements state that you need a DNA test if your 'marriage is incomplete for five years' and I will have been married to my wife for four years when I apply in December. I went to a government hospital last week to get the required DNA test only to be told that I needed a letter from immigration and police about getting the tests.

Hello aussiebebe,

from what I understand, it seems that during one of these famous meetings in May 2009 the immigration commission decided to request a DNA test for *all* these that applied under the 'supporting a Thai family' category, regardless of the length of the marriage. This was not a requirement when I applied in 2007.

I do not know if this requirement will be applied to 2008 or 2009 applicants.

We have also been told that the immigration department will formally notify us of the requirement (via letter), and that we have the option of not doing it. They said that the DNA test is worth 10 'points' for my application.

I'd be happy to know how this would matter, though. Is there a minimum threshold in 'points' for an application to be accepted, or is this used to rank applications? I cannot imagine more than 100 applicants of my nationality.

Thanks.

Yes, immigration will either send you the letter requesting a DNA test or you can pick it up at Room 301. The minimum points needed to pass is 50 out of 100, so if your application scores 60 or below then the 10 point reduction in your score could make or break your chances of approval.

Is there any news for 2006/2007 applicants that recently visited Room 301?

That looks like 10 points out of the 50 I need are in the bag, then! Just hope I don't die of old age before it gets approved.

Also, you need to be careful about having the test done to soon, because many of the documents have to be stamped/approved etc. within 3 months of your application.

Good luck!

Thanks for the replies; I cleared things up last week at immigration; you are required to submit an application first, and then you will be sent a letter which you take to any government hospital and get the DNA test.

Stbkk: could you clarify which documents need to be stamped/approved within 3 months? The list of requirements stated points 1: Health certificate, point 11. Certificate of the juristic person and point 12 List of share-holders.

However the immigration officer also said the employers certification letter should be within 3 months (point 8). Do you know about point 7? the letter from Department of Employment? Does that too have to be within three months?

Cheers

[stbkk]

Thanks for the replies; I cleared things up last week at immigration; you are required to submit an application first, and then you will be sent a letter which you take to any government hospital and get the DNA test.

Stbkk: could you clarify which documents need to be stamped/approved within 3 months? The list of requirements stated points 1: Health certificate, point 11. Certificate of the juristic person and point 12 List of share-holders.

However the immigration officer also said the employers certification letter should be within 3 months (point 8). Do you know about point 7? the letter from Department of Employment? Does that too have to be within three months?

Cheers

I don't recall needing a letter from the department of employment at all for my application (2006), just from my employers. The other docs. that caused me some difficulty with the 3 months thing were the end of year tax forms. I had the originals from each year, but needed copies done and stamped within 3 months of the application.

You have to bear in mind these things change a little every year though, so I'd suggest you just keep doing what immigration say and smiling nicely each time they want something new. Don't worry too much, its never a big problem and they were always very friendly and helpful to me.

[thaiowl]

I applied in December 2007. My wife, son and I did the DNA test last month and I have submitted the results to Immigration. Patience is a virtue.

[allan400]

Hi stbkk, I did my application in Dec 2007, and I was also asked for a certification of my work-permit from the Department of Employment. But that time it was not yet on the list. I went to the Labour Department at Din Daeng intersection, and showed my work-permit and passport. They received the copy of work permit, and it took then around 1-2 weeks to prepare the letter. Not sure the exact time, but I did not get it same week.

The list of documents is not exactly clear from beginning. There are required more certifications and stamps than mentioned on the required list. So you just need to make your own list from what is requested as well.

Br

Allan

[tombkk]

News from room 301 (I am class 2006): I passed by today and decided to drop in and ask for the current status. While they did not ask for my name or checked my file, I was informed that the 2006 files are now at the Interior Ministry, only waiting for the Minister to sign. They said it is likely that it will happen within this year.

They also confirmed that the immigration department will move to chaeng Wattana, starting with the "turagarn" department (I'll leave it up to the Thai Language forum to translate) in August.

This coincides with what I have read here, so it's not really news I guess. I just thought I'd drop in here too, having lurked for a while.

[stbkk]

News from room 301 (I am class 2006): I passed by today and decided to drop in and ask for the current status. While they did not ask for my name or checked my file, I was informed that the 2006 files are now at the Interior Ministry, only waiting for the Minister to sign. They said it is likely that it will happen within this year.

They also confirmed that the immigration department will move to chaeng Wattana, starting with the "turagarn" department (I'll leave it up to the Thai Language forum to translate) in August.

This coincides with what I have read here, so it's not really news I guess. I just thought I'd drop in here too, having lurked for a while.

At least they all seem to be giving out the same story.... Thats something I guess.

I could do with it being finished before they move out to Chaeng Wattana, my office is 5 mins. from Suan Plu!

Does anybody know any of the 2008 applicants? I have a friend who applied then, and he has not heard anything since they accepted his documents, no news of interview or anything. I seem to remember when I did mine it all happened quite quickly at first...

There has got to be a good conspiracy theory in here somewhere!

[aussiebebe]

Just general questions to anyone who's applied for PR -

The requirements are that any non-Thai documents needs to be certified by embassy, translated, then certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - does this include the copy of your passport?

Also, the above process costs money - when you apply, do you give immigration the original stamped forms or signed photocopies of the originals?

[skippybangkok]

I could be wrong, but unless its concluded before end Oct, it will be a wait till mid the next year. I doubt they will conduct the interviews for teh next bunch and hand out PR's to the old and old old bunch at the same time.

Best wishes. Must be frustrating. its now 2009, and am amazed that i am in the last batch ( nothing since then)...... been along time - hang in there guys.

[CMexpat]

I have my PR since 2004. I do not live in Thailand anymore but want to keep my PR. For this reason I left Thailand with a re-entry and return every time within a year. I am still registered in Chiang Mai and have been doing my re-entries there.

I was wondering if I can get a re-entry in my PR and in my Passport at the immigration office in Bangkok instead of CM? This saves me the trip up to Chiang Mai. Alternatively I could change my registration to Bangkok but this I prefer not to do.

[tombkk]

Just general questions to anyone who's applied for PR -

The requirements are that any non-Thai documents needs to be certified by embassy, translated, then certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - does this include the copy of your passport?

Also, the above process costs money - when you apply, do you give immigration the original stamped forms or signed photocopies of the originals?

I had the documents translated and then certified by the embassy. Only for one document did the PR office request me to get an additional certification from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. I handed in signed copies of the originals, but the original stamped translations.

I think. It's been three years... ;-)

[THAIJAMES]

The 2007 Applications are being submitted to the minister at the end of next week.

I just got a call from Room 301 that one of my documents is not dated and I need to get a replacement right away as they will be submitting them on Thursday or Friday next week.

I am also wondering if this means that the 2006 Applications have been approved as they previously informed me that according to the process that has to be done first before the 2007 can be considered?

[auntyedna]

I have just finished reading the entire three year's worth of posts on this blog. Utterly fascinating and utterly dispiriting in equal measure. I feel very sorry for you 2006 people.

I have some questions on a few unpinned items:

1) Is there anyone out there, or does anyone know of anyone, who has successfully graduated from retirement visa (i.e. no work permit) to PR?

2) If so, and with reference to antony77's unnerving post (22Apr09) regarding tax, has any retiree with PR suddenly found that he has to start paying Thai tax on overseas income? This is fundamentally important to us all. I understand that Thai nationals are supposed to pay tax on worldwide income.

3) If so, has any Brit PR invoked the UK/Thai double taxation agreement (Statutory Instrument #1546 dated 1981) with any success?

4) When an applicant is "married" to a Thai, does the marriage have to be registered in Thailand, or will a valid foreign marriage certificate, translated and certified by a Thai Embassy abroad, suffice?

Following on from that, I would most appreciate assessments of whether I would be successful in obtaining PR. My c.v. in summary:

a. been here 18 years, founded a company, had a work permit and paid tax for the first 9 years

b. adviser to prime minister (Gen Chavalit) in 1997

c. currently in Thailand on extensions of retirement visa

d. married to a Thai in Hong Kong 12 years ago (marriage not registered here) and living together ever since

e. invested B15m in land and property in wife's name

f. living off retirement income that's just above the retirement visa limit

g. house, land and belongings wiped out by tsunami; started over again

h. conducted post-tsunami charity work; received plaque personally from His Majesty

Seems to me that my score sheet would fluctuate between 0/10 and 10/10 from one item to the next. Anyone like to guess my overall chances?

[jayboy]

Anyone like to guess my overall chances?

Nil I'm afraid because of your broken record in paying tax.

[stbkk]

Anyone like to guess my overall chances?

Nil I'm afraid because of your broken record in paying tax.

While I would agree with that answer for a 'normal' application, I'd say from your original post that you are likely to have some contacts high enough up who might be able to help you get some leeway on that particular item.

Especially if it is the only item on the list of criteria that you do not meet, and you have paid tax previously as well.

Good luck.

[skippybangkok]

Drop a line to Chavalit ! Thats the way the cookie crumbles out here, and having advised him, you should know that.

[jayboy]

Anyone like to guess my overall chances?

Nil I'm afraid because of your broken record in paying tax.

While I would agree with that answer for a 'normal' application, I'd say from your original post that you are likely to have some contacts high enough up who might be able to help you get some leeway on that particular item.

Especially if it is the only item on the list of criteria that you do not meet, and you have paid tax previously as well.

Good luck.

You are quite wrong I'm afraid.There are plenty of PR applicants with very influential contacts (not that auntyedna has set his out other than being an "adviser" to Chavalit which is hardly a recommendation) but the record of tax payment (and appropriate visa) is non-negotiable.With respect unless you have cast iron evidence (in which case let's hear it) it's best not to waste a PR applicants time with misleading advice.Camerata remains the oracle on this matter.

[stbkk]

Anyone like to guess my overall chances?

Nil I'm afraid because of your broken record in paying tax.

While I would agree with that answer for a 'normal' application, I'd say from your original post that you are likely to have some contacts high enough up who might be able to help you get some leeway on that particular item.

Especially if it is the only item on the list of criteria that you do not meet, and you have paid tax previously as well.

Good luck.

You are quite wrong I'm afraid.There are plenty of PR applicants with very influential contacts (not that auntyedna has set his out other than being an "adviser" to Chavalit which is hardly a recommendation) but the record of tax payment (and appropriate visa) is non-negotiable.With respect unless you have cast iron evidence (in which case let's hear it) it's best not to waste a PR applicants time with misleading advice.Camerata remains the oracle on this matter.

Whoa!

Sorry for upsetting you, completely unintended. The OP asked for 'guesses', and I gave one. It won't be the first of mine that's been wrong for sure, but I never suggested for one moment it was advice.

I'd would say though, with respect, it's up to the OP themself to judge whether a couple of phone calls to old contacts to see what they say is a waste of time or not.

[TheChiefJustice]

When I was at my citizenship interview last year I met a Chinese man who was also there for the interview. He didn't have a lick of Thai, nor did he have PR. He did, however, have highly placed contacts. So, pleased don't discount the possibility becuase, like it or not, it does happen.

[jayboy]

When I was at my citizenship interview last year I met a Chinese man who was also there for the interview. He didn't have a lick of Thai, nor did he have PR. He did, however, have highly placed contacts. So, pleased don't discount the possibility becuase, like it or not, it does happen.

So what? We were talking about PR not citizenship.

[GarryP]

I think what TCJ is saying is that nothing is written in blood and in that respect his comment does apply to PR. If you can get citizenship without meeting all the pre-requisites, you can be pretty sure you can get a PR in the same way. Not me though as unfortunately I don't have the right connections.