Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[skyaslimit]

as many of you guys are aware that I was may be the last person to be able to register myself in T.M 14 after receiving my PR late last year, I 've started my quest to get that alien ID from my old fashioned amphur, first they do not recognize it as they did in the case of T.M 14, then Dork send me some laws regarding this matter which I faxed to them a month before my visit to my district office, and then one day they called me and ask to come over and told me that there is still some kind of problem in their software and they need to request some kind of authorization code from MOI, and that they need more time before they can photograph me for ID.

I was not photographed at the time of my registration in T.M 14 , is it normal?

[chrisbinbkk99]

as many of you guys are aware that I was may be the last person to be able to register myself in T.M 14 after receiving my PR late last year, I 've started my quest to get that alien ID from my old fashioned amphur, first they do not recognize it as they did in the case of T.M 14, then Dork send me some laws regarding this matter which I faxed to them a month before my visit to my district office, and then one day they called me and ask to come over and told me that there is still some kind of problem in their software and they need to request some kind of authorization code from MOI, and that they need more time before they can photograph me for ID.

I was not photographed at the time of my registration in T.M 14 , is it normal?

I was offered to be put in the T.M. 14 on Monday but I refused and requested to be placed in the T.M. 13 (yellow cover) as I am applying for my TC and want to keep it to the letter, They did not take my picture but requested that I bring 1"x1" x3 pictures of myself,...

[Arkady]

as many of you guys are aware that I was may be the last person to be able to register myself in T.M 14 after receiving my PR late last year, I 've started my quest to get that alien ID from my old fashioned amphur, first they do not recognize it as they did in the case of T.M 14, then Dork send me some laws regarding this matter which I faxed to them a month before my visit to my district office, and then one day they called me and ask to come over and told me that there is still some kind of problem in their software and they need to request some kind of authorization code from MOI, and that they need more time before they can photograph me for ID.

I was not photographed at the time of my registration in T.M 14 , is it normal?

I was offered to be put in the T.M. 14 on Monday but I refused and requested to be placed in the T.M. 13 (yellow cover) as I am applying for my TC and want to keep it to the letter, They did not take my picture but requested that I bring 1"x1" x3 pictures of myself,...

If you don't have PR, this is probably correct. As mentioned elsewhere, DOPA's manual for district offices clearly sates that foreigners on temporary visas should be entered into a TR 13, although I don't think putting them in a TR 14 is expressly forbidden and many district officers seem to want to do this to save themselves the trouble of issuing a new book.

[skyaslimit]

as many of you guys are aware that I was may be the last person to be able to register myself in T.M 14 after receiving my PR late last year, I 've started my quest to get that alien ID from my old fashioned amphur, first they do not recognize it as they did in the case of T.M 14, then Dork send me some laws regarding this matter which I faxed to them a month before my visit to my district office, and then one day they called me and ask to come over and told me that there is still some kind of problem in their software and they need to request some kind of authorization code from MOI, and that they need more time before they can photograph me for ID.

I was not photographed at the time of my registration in T.M 14 , is it normal?

I was offered to be put in the T.M. 14 on Monday but I refused and requested to be placed in the T.M. 13 (yellow cover) as I am applying for my TC and want to keep it to the letter, They did not take my picture but requested that I bring 1"x1" x3 pictures of myself,...

 

If you don't have PR, this is probably correct.  As mentioned elsewhere, DOPA's  manual for district offices clearly sates that foreigners on temporary visas should be entered into a TR 13, although I don't think putting them in a TR 14 is expressly forbidden and many district officers seem to want to do this to save themselves the trouble of issuing a new book.

I am always fond of your helpful posts on this forum but I need your opinion on my case, I do have a PR (class of 2006) and I am already registered inT.M.14 late last year but they did not photographed me at the time of registration, is it normal? I started my quest for Pink ID card and they tried to photograph me for the issuance of my alien ID card but they were able to input my data from PR book, Alien book, Passport and my Blue Thabian baan but they were unable to photograph me with an error message and then they called here and there and told me that they need some kind of authorization code from MOI and asked me to contact again after a month..

[Dork]

Hi skyaslimit,

Your experience sounds very similar to mine except that they were able to take the photo & fingerprint scan but after entering all the data the system wouldn't save so that the card could be printed right away. There was a series of phone calls between them and head office trying to resolve the problem and they did try quite hard. Eventually, like you, I was asked to leave it with them and they would call when the problem was fixed. Some time later they did call and said that the card was ready. Come and pick it up.

Right from the beginning I was informed that there was a software glitch that prevented ID cards beginning with 8 from being printed. So after getting the card I assumed that had been fixed but I wonder whether it actually hasn't been fixed properly and that they managed to print the card with some kind of manual override perhaps at head office rather than locally. I didn't collect my card in person so I don't know.

That theory would be reinforced by a friends experience very recently. He was told that BORA are working on the system right now and once finished, a letter will be sent to all PR's instructing them to go to their local office to have a card issued. As Arkady pointed out, ID cards for PR's is actually mandatory, not optional and has been for 5 years already!

If I was you I wouldn't worry. Just wait for a month or so and call again if they don't call you.

[sas_cars]

Still, the wording on the card which says that the card holder can't leave it's disctrict without permission puts me off getting one.

[bkkfoxi]

Hi skyaslimit,

Your experience sounds very similar to mine except that they were able to take the photo & fingerprint scan but after entering all the data the system wouldn't save so that the card could be printed right away. There was a series of phone calls between them and head office trying to resolve the problem and they did try quite hard. Eventually, like you, I was asked to leave it with them and they would call when the problem was fixed. Some time later they did call and said that the card was ready. Come and pick it up.

Right from the beginning I was informed that there was a software glitch that prevented ID cards beginning with 8 from being printed. So after getting the card I assumed that had been fixed but I wonder whether it actually hasn't been fixed properly and that they managed to print the card with some kind of manual override perhaps at head office rather than locally. I didn't collect my card in person so I don't know.

That theory would be reinforced by a friends experience very recently. He was told that BORA are working on the system right now and once finished, a letter will be sent to all PR's instructing them to go to their local office to have a card issued. As Arkady pointed out, ID cards for PR's is actually mandatory, not optional and has been for 5 years already!

If I was you I wouldn't worry. Just wait for a month or so and call again if they don't call you.

Please see my post (Chrisbinbkk) here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/641648-yellow-book-tabian-ban/page-4#entry6454200 will update tomorrow

[Arkady]

Still, the wording on the card which says that the card holder can't leave it's disctrict without permission puts me off getting one.

It does actually say in note 3 on the back that the holder CAN leave his district if he has an Alien Book. See attachment. What had been posted here before was a sample of the 2004 version that didn't mention the exception which was added in 2008 when they specifically included PRs in the categories of people who should have an alien ID card in new regulations pursuant to the 2008 Civil Registration Act. I think farangs can safely ignore the need to carry their Alien Books outside their district but hill tribe people had better watch out. You can always point out the 8- prefix to a policeman, if he asks why you have wandered over the Khet line. I feel happier with this wording than the old one, which I also found offputting, and I think this is probably the best type of ID card that PRs are going to get in our life times.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Arkady

[jamesthailand]

Hi Dork,

I decided to have a try at getting an ID card (I'm a PR). I'm in Sathorn District.

The first couple of layers of people claimed that I wasn't eligible. Eventually I got to see the head person, who admitted that I was supposed to be able to have one, but claimed they don't have the program/software to do it. They didn't even try to take a photo or print an ID card. I told them I knew of somebody in another district who had done it, and they wanted to know what district that was.

Currently the status is they are talking to head office. We'll see what happens. It seems I'm the first PR in my district to ask for one.

Thanks for the info.

[Arkady]

Hi Dork,

I decided to have a try at getting an ID card (I'm a PR). I'm in Sathorn District.

The first couple of layers of people claimed that I wasn't eligible. Eventually I got to see the head person, who admitted that I was supposed to be able to have one, but claimed they don't have the program/software to do it. They didn't even try to take a photo or print an ID card. I told them I knew of somebody in another district who had done it, and they wanted to know what district that was.

Currently the status is they are talking to head office. We'll see what happens. It seems I'm the first PR in my district to ask for one.

Thanks for the info.

At least two TV members have reported getting pink ID in Nonthaburi where they seem to offer the service unsolicited when new PRs apply for their first blue tabien baan. It seems that Nonthaburi has also faced software challenges in getting it done but persevered and called back later to say they had solved the problem and issued the cards.

[bkkfoxi]

Hi Dork,

I decided to have a try at getting an ID card (I'm a PR). I'm in Sathorn District.

The first couple of layers of people claimed that I wasn't eligible. Eventually I got to see the head person, who admitted that I was supposed to be able to have one, but claimed they don't have the program/software to do it. They didn't even try to take a photo or print an ID card. I told them I knew of somebody in another district who had done it, and they wanted to know what district that was.

Currently the status is they are talking to head office. We'll see what happens. It seems I'm the first PR in my district to ask for one.

Thanks for the info.

At least two TV members have reported getting pink ID in Nonthaburi where they seem to offer the service unsolicited when new PRs apply for their first blue tabien baan. It seems that Nonthaburi has also faced software challenges in getting it done but persevered and called back later to say they had solved the problem and issued the cards.

correct I was offered as yet I have not been back to complete it, for now I just wanted the TR 13 but i will go back this or next week,...

[Helvetica]

Hi Dork,

I decided to have a try at getting an ID card (I'm a PR). I'm in Sathorn District.

The first couple of layers of people claimed that I wasn't eligible. Eventually I got to see the head person, who admitted that I was supposed to be able to have one, but claimed they don't have the program/software to do it. They didn't even try to take a photo or print an ID card. I told them I knew of somebody in another district who had done it, and they wanted to know what district that was.

Currently the status is they are talking to head office. We'll see what happens. It seems I'm the first PR in my district to ask for one.

Thanks for the info.

When I was put on the Blue Tabien Baan, in Sathorn District, late last year after getting my PR Certificate, I asked for that ID card (I showed them a print of the template which was published on this thread). The lady in charge then told me that although PRs were now entitled to such an ID card, none of the District Offices in Bangkok were able to issue it. She recommended me to get it somewhere upcountry (Nonthaburi seems to be a good place). It seems that once we have an ID number we can have an ID card issued where ever we want. Or rather, where ever they can do it.

[bkkfoxi]

Hi Dork,

I decided to have a try at getting an ID card (I'm a PR). I'm in Sathorn District.

The first couple of layers of people claimed that I wasn't eligible. Eventually I got to see the head person, who admitted that I was supposed to be able to have one, but claimed they don't have the program/software to do it. They didn't even try to take a photo or print an ID card. I told them I knew of somebody in another district who had done it, and they wanted to know what district that was.

Currently the status is they are talking to head office. We'll see what happens. It seems I'm the first PR in my district to ask for one.

Thanks for the info.

When I was put on the Blue Tabien Baan, in Sathorn District, late last year after getting my PR Certificate, I asked for that ID card (I showed them a print of the template which was published on this thread). The lady in charge then told me that although PRs were now entitled to such an ID card, none of the District Offices in Bangkok were able to issue it. She recommended me to get it somewhere upcountry (Nonthaburi seems to be a good place). It seems that once we have an ID number we can have an ID card issued where ever we want. Or rather, where ever they can do it.

That I am not sure about, but yes; I am sure that every office is unique in some respects as a PR you are entilted to it fact - I just belive that the systems thus far are not up to the state of handing it...(or users)

Personally I see ZERO benefit from having a ID other than if you show it to a policeman when you make a wrong turn he will take it off you in exchange for some cash,...

[brianinbangkok]

Renewal of re entry for PR.

They said there was no need to fill out the ID number part.

Just sign.

Including waiting time 2.5 hours to get it done.

Edited June 3, 2013 by brianinbangkok

[bkkfoxi]

Renewal of re entry for PR. They said there was no need to fill out the ID number part. Just sign. Including waiting time 2.5 hours to get it done.

Thanks Brain or Brian, but as I don't have a PR and can still get the ID card again I see no beneficial reason to do so - I will not bother for the time being,.... other than just being able to have one I guess

Cheers

Chris

[brianinbangkok]

My yearly trip to Immigration is coming up so I downloaded the TM13 and TM22 to prepare for the visit.

Does anybody know what ID card number they request as the last question (backside) of TM 22.

Do they mean the number in the red book or my ID number like on my driving license ?

Because of course I do not have a Thai ID card....

Its says " "This application is written by ..... holding I.D. Card No. issued at dated expired on.

Other question I have is what is the actual number of the red book the number on the back of the cover or on the first page in the book above the photo ?

Hi Chris,

I should have quoted my older post as I refer to this ID number.

I also see no point in yet another card unless it actually replaces the old red books and does not limit our movement around Thailand.

Brian

Edited June 3, 2013 by brianinbangkok

[chrisbinbkk99]

My yearly trip to Immigration is coming up so I downloaded the TM13 and TM22 to prepare for the visit.

Does anybody know what ID card number they request as the last question (backside) of TM 22.

Do they mean the number in the red book or my ID number like on my driving license ?

Because of course I do not have a Thai ID card....

Its says " "This application is written by ..... holding I.D. Card No. issued at dated expired on.

Other question I have is what is the actual number of the red book the number on the back of the cover or on the first page in the book above the photo ?

Hi Chris,

I should have quoted my older post as I refer to this ID number.

I also see no point in yet another card unless it actually replaces the old red books and does not limit our movement around Thailand.

Brian

your free to move thanks Brain

[Arkady]

My yearly trip to Immigration is coming up so I downloaded the TM13 and TM22 to prepare for the visit.

Does anybody know what ID card number they request as the last question (backside) of TM 22.

Do they mean the number in the red book or my ID number like on my driving license ?

Because of course I do not have a Thai ID card....

Its says " "This application is written by ..... holding I.D. Card No. issued at dated expired on.

Other question I have is what is the actual number of the red book the number on the back of the cover or on the first page in the book above the photo ?

Hi Chris,

I should have quoted my older post as I refer to this ID number.

I also see no point in yet another card unless it actually replaces the old red books and does not limit our movement around Thailand.

Brian

It neither replaces the old red books nor limits your movement around Thailand. The original sample that was posted here was misleading because it was the old 2004 version before PRs were eligible. As posted above, the current 2008 version explicitly says you have freedom of movement,if you have a red book too. It is fact compulsory for PRs to have a pink card according to interior ministerial regulations but few policemen and district officers are aware of this.

[brianinbangkok]

Yes understand it does not replace the red book. But would not mind if it did.

Credit card sized ID for ppl with a PR would be great.

As long as the text on the back changes so I would not have also cary the red book with me also when traveling.

Wishfull thinking thats all

[GotR1GHT]

2k

[Zam]

Hi

I tried reaching the CW guys to get a update on the 2009 PR issuing status as again they have said awaiting Interior ministry as always.

Has anyone of you recently been there and spoken to them to get a heads up on this impending issue Please let us know too!

[sas_cars]

I fear that the 2009 batch is on for a long wait, same like the 2006 batch which had to wait 6 years for approval. It's due to the new interior minister just warming the bench and not really signing anything related to PR or citizenship applications. We have to wait once he finally goes, then have to wait and see whether the next interior minister is also a bench warmer or someone real.

[Arkady]

I fear that the 2009 batch is on for a long wait, same like the 2006 batch which had to wait 6 years for approval. It's due to the new interior minister just warming the bench and not really signing anything related to PR or citizenship applications. We have to wait once he finally goes, then have to wait and see whether the next interior minister is also a bench warmer or someone real.

The current interior minister is already in the departure lounge waiting to feel the PM's elegant Burberry boot up his backside. He probably hasn't got anywhere near the PR applications in his in-tray.

[sas_cars]

I fear that the 2009 batch is on for a long wait, same like the 2006 batch which had to wait 6 years for approval. It's due to the new interior minister just warming the bench and not really signing anything related to PR or citizenship applications. We have to wait once he finally goes, then have to wait and see whether the next interior minister is also a bench warmer or someone real.

The current interior minister is already in the departure lounge waiting to feel the PM's elegant Burberry boot up his backside. He probably hasn't got anywhere near the PR applications in his in-tray.

It's a real pity that Khun. Yonguth couldn't have stayed any longer. He was the best thing happened to the PR/Citizenship applicants

[Zam]

I fear that the 2009 batch is on for a long wait, same like the 2006 batch which had to wait 6 years for approval. It's due to the new interior minister just warming the bench and not really signing anything related to PR or citizenship applications. We have to wait once he finally goes, then have to wait and see whether the next interior minister is also a bench warmer or someone real.

Thanks and wish some one can write to the newspapers telling how farce the system is inspite of legitimately qualifying there is so much ambiguity in the system.

[somchaimaidai]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

[thaiowl]

Hi Dork,

I decided to have a try at getting an ID card (I'm a PR). I'm in Sathorn District.

The first couple of layers of people claimed that I wasn't eligible. Eventually I got to see the head person, who admitted that I was supposed to be able to have one, but claimed they don't have the program/software to do it. They didn't even try to take a photo or print an ID card. I told them I knew of somebody in another district who had done it, and they wanted to know what district that was.

Currently the status is they are talking to head office. We'll see what happens. It seems I'm the first PR in my district to ask for one.

Thanks for the info.

At least two TV members have reported getting pink ID in Nonthaburi where they seem to offer the service unsolicited when new PRs apply for their first blue tabien baan. It seems that Nonthaburi has also faced software challenges in getting it done but persevered and called back later to say they had solved the problem and issued the cards.

Yes. I was issued the card by the tessabaan in Pakkret, Nonthaburi.

[Dork]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

Was it your lawyer that informed you about the meeting? I strongly suspect that if you get rid of the lawyer the 50k demand will quietly go away.

I'm not just making a flippant comment. It happened to me.

When I fist considered applying for PR, I read several posters on this forum that said you don't need a lawyer. I didn't believe them so went ahead and hired one. Having now been through the whole process, I can say with out any hesitation that they were right and I was wrong.

At best you will pay money for almost nothing. At worst, they will actually hinder your application, engineer a lot of unexpected extra "charges" and charge you for arranging those charges.

[skyaslimit]

I was called in to Chaeng Wattana recently after my interview and was informed that the inspector wanted to speak to me. I went with my lawyer and was informed by the inspector that although there was no problems as such with my application that as he was a member of the approval committee my application needed his support. Consequently he said that I should pay him 50,000thb for his support. It doesn't particularly surprise me and I told him I would consider it and get back to him.

The whole setup there is rotten to the core and I suppose this is just another hoop that needs jumping through.

 

Was it your lawyer that informed you about the meeting? I strongly suspect that if you get rid of the lawyer the 50k demand will quietly go away.

 

I'm not just making a flippant comment. It happened to me.

 

When I fist considered applying for PR, I read several posters on this forum that said you don't need a lawyer. I didn't believe them so went ahead and hired one. Having now been through the whole process, I can say with out any hesitation that they were right and I was wrong.

 

At best you will pay money for almost nothing. At worst, they will actually hinder your application, engineer a lot of unexpected extra "charges" and charge you for arranging those charges.

I totally agree with Dork here, I did applied for the PR myself without the help of any lawyer and I did not encountered any major hurdles, in fact the immigration officers guided me on

every step

[jayboy]

As to the hiring of a lawyer it is vital that one knows the track record and calibre of the firm concerned.I agree a poor hire is worse than useless.I was fortunate since I understood exactly what kind of lawyer was needed.If you are sure you have the right lawyer then it can make sense if you don't have a lot of time on your hands and can afford the fee.