Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[nosatisfaction]

Something I forgot to mention is that when applying for PR you are given a 6-month extension visa, which is followed by 3-month extensions until the application is approved or rejected. But you can ask for 6-month extensions and that will save you a work permit renewal each time. Make a point of seeing the same officer you dealt with before and asking for 6 months.

There is some good information about PR requirements at http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/do...tion4extend.doc dated December 2003. It gives a good idea of how they intended the system to work, complete with a disclaimer at the end saying that even if you fulfill all the requirements they can still reject you and don't have to tell you the reason.

Maybe this has changed, since I always have been getting 6 month extensions since the " under consideration " stamp

[Mario2008]

That post is from 2006, regarding a document from 2003.

Yes, things change.

[ubonjoe]

More info on immigration's requirements are here: Criteria and conditions for foreign national residential permit consideration

As for alfalfa19's previous question about criminal records check. Many States now have a online service for doing a criminal records check. If you do one of these it would give you a pretty good idea what the FBI background check will show.

Edited July 9, 2013 by ubonjoe

[belg]

in short:

very long procedure and really not worth it ...

1900 baht per year is what most of us pay, end of story

191.000 baht / 1900 baht per year = 100 years worth

thanks for the info

but you still need to pay when you go out of the country & stuff = not worth

[PhilipCook]

after receiving the PR is it necessary to inform police if travel abroad exceeds 15 days and do they make note of it in the alien registration(red book)?

[Mario2008]

You would need a "re-entry permit" from immirgaiton and if you stay outside of Thailand for longer than 1 year minus 1 day you lose your PR.

The re-entry permit is different for PR-holders and called an endorsement.

[ubonjoe]

You don't inform the police. You get a special re-entry permit for permanent residents that is good for a year from immigration.

[PhilipCook]

i remember seeing something from immigration that said i need to notify the police if i stay outside longer than 15 days. i just got back from a 19 day trip abroad.

[ubonjoe]

The only requirement that I know of for reporting to the police is for the 5 year check in.

Or if you move.

[PhilipCook]

thank you

[dighambara]

Per recent TV posts, Thai citizenship is much easier and no longer requires residency beforehand. Contraryto common belief, most countries do not require a new citizen to foreswear their other citizenship. This included Thailand and the USA for example.

[skyaslimit]

Per recent TV posts, Thai citizenship is much easier and no longer requires residency beforehand. Contraryto common belief, most countries do not require a new citizen to foreswear their other citizenship. This included Thailand and the USA for example.

As far as I know Thailand do not allow duel citizenship

Edited July 9, 2013 by skyaslimit

[skippybangkok]

Per recent TV posts, Thai citizenship is much easier and no longer requires residency beforehand. Contraryto common belief, most countries do not require a new citizen to foreswear their other citizenship. This included Thailand and the USA for example.

Easier ? Been in queue for 3 1/2 yrs w no update

[NewlyMintedThai]

"Easy", not "quick"!

[Mario2008]

Per recent TV posts, Thai citizenship is much easier and no longer requires residency beforehand. Contraryto common belief, most countries do not require a new citizen to foreswear their other citizenship. This included Thailand and the USA for example.

As far as I know Thailand do not allow duel citizenship

Thailand allows dual nationality, but if you naturalize to become a Thai national you cannot use your other nationality in Thailand.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Yes, similar to the US system.

They are not going to force you to give up your original nationality -- but to the US government you are an American only. To the Thai government you are a Thai only.

[rosst]

Excellent post, well researched and many follow ups with personal experience. Thanks guys

[samran]

Per recent TV posts, Thai citizenship is much easier and no longer requires residency beforehand. Contraryto common belief, most countries do not require a new citizen to foreswear their other citizenship. This included Thailand and the USA for example.

As far as I know Thailand do not allow duel citizenship

That info is 20 years and 4 months out of date (give or take)

[onthemoon]

after receiving the PR is it necessary to inform police if travel abroad exceeds 15 days and do they make note of it in the alien registration(red book)?

It is necessary to get an endorsement before you leave the country. You can then stay abroad for one day or until the expiry date of the endorsement (which is less than one year). There is no such thing as a 15-day rule.

[onthemoon]

I have a question regarding the criminal record check. I have been a very good boy for 23 years now, but before 1990, I have a bit of a checkered past. Nothing heinous , just minor stuff related to a substance abuse problem, and one felony drug possession which has been expunged. I live in the US. Do you think I would have any problems in this department, or are they just interested in the last 10 years or so, as American employers are? Thanks.

If you live in the US, you don't qualify for the Thai PR.

If you have lived in Thailand and worked on the same Work Permit for three consecutive years and have paid your taxes, it is between the FBI and you what they put into the criminal record. I guess it depends on the US laws after how many years things are erased.

[Arkady]

Per recent TV posts, Thai citizenship is much easier and no longer requires residency beforehand. Contraryto common belief, most countries do not require a new citizen to foreswear their other citizenship. This included Thailand and the USA for example.

As far as I know Thailand do not allow duel citizenship

Thailand allows dual nationality, but if you naturalize to become a Thai national you cannot use your other nationality in Thailand.

The law is not specific on where you may not use your former nationality but it is very similar for those who obtained Thai nationality through birth to an alien father in Thailand (mainly prior to 1972 when birth in Thailand to alien parents no longer conferred Thai nationality automatically). Those who have had their Thai nationality revoked under this provision were nearly all Chinese born in Thailand who went to live in China for over 5 years but making use of other nationality was usually also cited as grounds for revocation. In these cases the other nationality was clearly used in China, not in Thailand. Thus, based on precedent, I think it is unsafe to assume that naturalised Thais could only have their Thai nationality revoked for using former nationality in Thailand. Thai statutory law is deliberately left vague so that conflicting interpretations can be made by bureaucrats and courts to suit the circumstances.

[Zam]

Hello

Do we have any updates on the 2009 applicants for the residence permit as called immigration they are not having a clue, I was wondering if we can as members write to the post asking them to write a column explaining our greviance do you all suggest that this will help to give more clarity rather than be more in the dark.

Any suggestions!

[Arkady]

Hello

Do we have any updates on the 2009 applicants for the residence permit as called immigration they are not having a clue, I was wondering if we can as members write to the post asking them to write a column explaining our greviance do you all suggest that this will help to give more clarity rather than be more in the dark.

Any suggestions!

Writing to the press, particularly English language press, is not going to help unfortunately. The process is at the discretion of the minister and, if he chooses not to exercise his discretion, there is nothing legally that can be done about it. As I have suggested before, the best collective approach is to get foreign chambers of commerce to lobby. The joint foreign chamber has lobbied on this topic before and could possibly be persuaded to lobby again. The BoI has also made representations to the Interior Ministry in the past on behalf of foreign executives of BoI promoted businesses and this is probably the most effective, since it is only too easy for Thai bureaucrats to ignore representations from foreigners and the BoI knows what buttons to press. Anyone waiting for PR approval and working for a BoI promoted company should definitely consider asking the BoI to approach the interior ministry for them and every one else waiting.

[sas_cars]

Hello

Do we have any updates on the 2009 applicants for the residence permit as called immigration they are not having a clue, I was wondering if we can as members write to the post asking them to write a column explaining our greviance do you all suggest that this will help to give more clarity rather than be more in the dark.

Any suggestions!

Writing to the press, particularly English language press, is not going to help unfortunately. The process is at the discretion of the minister and, if he chooses not to exercise his discretion, there is nothing legally that can be done about it. As I have suggested before, the best collective approach is to get foreign chambers of commerce to lobby. The joint foreign chamber has lobbied on this topic before and could possibly be persuaded to lobby again. The BoI has also made representations to the Interior Ministry in the past on behalf of foreign executives of BoI promoted businesses and this is probably the most effective, since it is only too easy for Thai bureaucrats to ignore representations from foreigners and the BoI knows what buttons to press. Anyone waiting for PR approval and working for a BoI promoted company should definitely consider asking the BoI to approach the interior ministry for them and every one else waiting.

Arkady, it is the citizenship which is on disrection of the minister. PR process is not. I think you are confusing it, since you a citizenship applicant.

[Zam]

Hello

Do we have any updates on the 2009 applicants for the residence permit as called immigration they are not having a clue, I was wondering if we can as members write to the post asking them to write a column explaining our greviance do you all suggest that this will help to give more clarity rather than be more in the dark.

Any suggestions!

Writing to the press, particularly English language press, is not going to help unfortunately. The process is at the discretion of the minister and, if he chooses not to exercise his discretion, there is nothing legally that can be done about it. As I have suggested before, the best collective approach is to get foreign chambers of commerce to lobby. The joint foreign chamber has lobbied on this topic before and could possibly be persuaded to lobby again. The BoI has also made representations to the Interior Ministry in the past on behalf of foreign executives of BoI promoted businesses and this is probably the most effective, since it is only too easy for Thai bureaucrats to ignore representations from foreigners and the BoI knows what buttons to press. Anyone waiting for PR approval and working for a BoI promoted company should definitely consider asking the BoI to approach the interior ministry for them and every one else waiting.

Thanks Arkady well hope some one can push the button to expedite this inordinate delay in granting residency to people who have done this in good faith.

[Arkady]

Hello

Do we have any updates on the 2009 applicants for the residence permit as called immigration they are not having a clue, I was wondering if we can as members write to the post asking them to write a column explaining our greviance do you all suggest that this will help to give more clarity rather than be more in the dark.

Any suggestions!

Writing to the press, particularly English language press, is not going to help unfortunately. The process is at the discretion of the minister and, if he chooses not to exercise his discretion, there is nothing legally that can be done about it. As I have suggested before, the best collective approach is to get foreign chambers of commerce to lobby. The joint foreign chamber has lobbied on this topic before and could possibly be persuaded to lobby again. The BoI has also made representations to the Interior Ministry in the past on behalf of foreign executives of BoI promoted businesses and this is probably the most effective, since it is only too easy for Thai bureaucrats to ignore representations from foreigners and the BoI knows what buttons to press. Anyone waiting for PR approval and working for a BoI promoted company should definitely consider asking the BoI to approach the interior ministry for them and every one else waiting.

Arkady, it is the citizenship which is on disrection of the minister. PR process is not. I think you are confusing it, since you a citizenship applicant.

Good point. It is not explicit in the 1979 Immigration Act that it is up to the discretion of the minister, as it is in the Nationality Act. However, it is explicit that he minister has control and executive powers over the Immigration Act and can issue ministerial regulations pursuant to it. Section 41 also gives the minister the authority to approve PR applications that have been authorized by the Immigration Commission.

Section 41 : An alien shall not be allowed to take up residence in the Kingdom unless authorized by the

Immigration Commission and by the approval of the Minister, within the immigration quota limitation as

prescribed by the Minister in accordance with the provision of Section 40,....

The law provides for appeal against revocation of temporary and permanent residence but there is no appeal process against rejected residence applications or no response for many years. The creation of the Administrative Court theoretically allowed appeal against rejections but the only such case I have ever heard of resulted in a ruling that the minister had an absolute right to deny permanent residence in the interests of national security without having to give his reasons.

Taking all these points together, I would say that the minister effectively has discretion over PR, even though the Immigration Commission appears to have more authority in this than the Commission for Citizenship which under the Nationality Act only has the power to recommend candidates for citizenship to the minister.

[Arkady]

Regarding the bureaucratic delays, it would appear that little has changed in over 100 years, despite the advent of democratic government, particularly where foreigners are concerned. The quotes below are from, "Siam in the Twentieth Century, Being Experiences and Impressions of a British Official", written by J.G.D. Campbell who was hired from the UK to help reform the Education Department. It was first published by Edward Arnold in 1902.

"Ministers, with few honourable exceptions, attend at their offices with the utmost irregularity. Sometimes they do not put in an appearance for weeks. Letters remain unanswered in spite of reiterated demands for a reply, and the merest details are left unattended to. These are the affairs of every day."

and again

"....no one who has not been under Government employment, or at any rate resided for some time in Siam, can conceive what past masters the Siamese are in the art of delay and obstruction. Even some antiquated Minister who may be the very incarnation of stupidity and lethargy will prove to have a shrewdness and energy, little suspected at first sight, in blocking what does not suit his fancy; and when those qualities are combined in him, as sometimes, unhappily, they may be, with a strict economy of truth, it will be understood that the European reformer has no easy task."

[Bubbha]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this forum as a poster –but have been an avid reader of this PR discussion for many years.

I plan to apply for PR this December, have started to prepare now (early), and have a question about the requirement for educational certificates.

Does immigration require a certified copy of both university transcripts and actual diplomas – or just one of these?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[ubonjoe]

4. Copy of the applicant’s educational certificate must be officially certified by the national embassy located in Thailand, translated into Thai and certified by the Official of Department of Consular Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kingdom of Thailand.

From: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/residence_work_en.pdf

[Arkady]

A tip for PR holders applying for or renewing work permits. Your alien book needs to be valid for the entire period of the duration of the work permit you are applying for. Otherwise the Labour Ministry can only issue or renew your work permit up until the date your alien book expires. I am applying for another two year renewal of my work permit but my alien book was going to expire in 6 months time. My local police station was happy to renew the alien book for another 5 years starting from the original expiry date for the official fee of 800 baht that hasn't changed for over a decade. Knowing this in advance can save running around at the last minute before the work permit expires. Some police stations also make you come another day for your alien book, saying a Puu Yai has to sign. Mine was done on the spot this time by the NCO himself luckily.