MH17 crash: Dutch PM rules out military mission to secure site

[webfact]

MH17 crash: Dutch PM rules out military mission to secure site

(BBC) - Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte says sending out an international military force to secure the site of the downed Malaysian Airlines plane in eastern Ukraine is "unrealistic".

The site is currently controlled by pro-Russia rebels who have been accused of shooting down flight MH17.

All 298 people on board - most of them Dutch - died.

In the latest fighting in the area, 13 people were killed as troops try to seize Horlivka from the rebels.

Separately, the US has released images to back its claim of Russian firing into Ukraine.

The images, showing marks on the ground and impact craters, suggest fire from multiple rocket launchers, the US state department says.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28518056

[bbc]2014-07-28[/bbc]

[chooka]

Australia has already sent 50 Federal Police and is sending 100 more.  It is also considering sending military to help the AFP secure the site.  This was suppose to be a Dutch lead operation so if the Dutch aren't going to do it Australia may be going alone.

 

 

 

Australia sends 100 more police for MH17 mission, as rhetoric softens

 

Australia is sending 100 more federal police officers to Europe in the hope they will be able to join a Dutch-led mission to secure the site of the downed MH17

 

Tony Abbott said some of the police could be armed and backed up by defence personnel, as he rejected suggestions the fall of the Ukrainian government could affect the completion of a deal with Ukraine to enter the site.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/25/australia-sends-100-more-police-mh17-tony-abbott-rhetoric-softens

Edited July 28, 2014 by chooka

[skippybangkok]

Lol.... In Ww2 they gave up within a few hours. Doubt they would dare to take on Russia


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[Credo]

The Dutch are lovely people and have a great country, but military matters aren't their strong suit.   I believe one of their last assignments was the protection of Srebrenica in Bosnia.   That didn't turn out too well.

 

I think the Australians are probably better suited for the task and have a little bit more experience in these matters.   The Australians are also not a part of the EU so some of the baggage that the EU is carrying in this matter won't come into play with Australia.   

[ABCer]

I wish Tony Abbott had the same common sense as the Dutch.

 

Maybe he is trying to extricate himself from committing the taxpayers money to the Deep?

 

On the other hand Australian military might benefit from the field experience in active zone.

[kerrysum]

Good luck, an my prayers are with the families.....

[hawker9000]

What purpose would be served by "securing the site" at this late date?  Anything incriminating the Russians & rebels want removed is long gone (and anything they want inserted well in place...) by now.  It's like securing a murder scene weeks after the crime, with the main suspects in the meantime allowed to traipse back & forth through it and handle & remove evidence at will.  

 

The conspiracy theory crackpots are already warming up (claiming this is the long lost MH370...).  You knew it would happen.

[anam600]

They should secure this site because it is the main part for their defense.

[DaBloodyMess]

I wish Tony Abbott had the same common sense as the Dutch.

 

Maybe he is trying to extricate himself from committing the taxpayers money to the Deep?

 

On the other hand Australian military might benefit from the field experience in active zone.

 

I think Australia has plenty of experience in war zones. Iraq 2003 - 2008 and the ongoing deployment to Afghanistan, which started in 2001. With such a small defence force, pretty much every serving member has been rotated through a combat zone at least once in the last 10 years of constant deployments.

[dutchisaan]

The Dutch are lovely people and have a great country, but military matters aren't their strong suit.   I believe one of their last assignments was the protection of Srebrenica in Bosnia.   That didn't turn out too well.
 
I think the Australians are probably better suited for the task and have a little bit more experience in these matters.   The Australians are also not a part of the EU so some of the baggage that the EU is carrying in this matter won't come into play with Australia.   

It looks like that you do not know a lot about the Dutch army.


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[Credo]

 

The Dutch are lovely people and have a great country, but military matters aren't their strong suit.   I believe one of their last assignments was the protection of Srebrenica in Bosnia.   That didn't turn out too well.
 
I think the Australians are probably better suited for the task and have a little bit more experience in these matters.   The Australians are also not a part of the EU so some of the baggage that the EU is carrying in this matter won't come into play with Australia.   

It looks like that you do not know a lot about the Dutch army.


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Actually, you are correct, I don't know a lot about the Dutch army.   

 

I am wondering why the politicians seem to be reluctant to be involved.   

 

There are probably a lot of things still at the site, including personal effects.   Possessions of value may have been stolen, but there are lots of things of importance to the families.   These personal items should not be left there.   

[dutchisaan]

 

 

The Dutch are lovely people and have a great country, but military matters aren't their strong suit.   I believe one of their last assignments was the protection of Srebrenica in Bosnia.   That didn't turn out too well.
 
I think the Australians are probably better suited for the task and have a little bit more experience in these matters.   The Australians are also not a part of the EU so some of the baggage that the EU is carrying in this matter won't come into play with Australia.   

It looks like that you do not know a lot about the Dutch army.


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Actually, you are correct, I don't know a lot about the Dutch army.   
 
I am wondering why the politicians seem to be reluctant to be involved.   
 
There are probably a lot of things still at the site, including personal effects.   Possessions of value may have been stolen, but there are lots of things of importance to the families.   These personal items should not be left there.   

Thank you for your honest reply.
The dutch government is trying it's best to come with a solution that will work for everybody. But there main priority is to get the victims home.  They where ready to sent in Dutch special forces, all leaves where cancelled for this unit and soldiers on vacation where called back to there base.

I'm not a politician, I'm just somebody that lost a good friend on this flight and in my opinion they can sent the whole army to this crashsite.  But that is my feeling saying, not my brain.


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[Credo]

My deepest sympathy on the loss of your friend.   

[chooka]

 

I wish Tony Abbott had the same common sense as the Dutch.

 

Maybe he is trying to extricate himself from committing the taxpayers money to the Deep?

 

On the other hand Australian military might benefit from the field experience in active zone.

 

I think Australia has plenty of experience in war zones. Iraq 2003 - 2008 and the ongoing deployment to Afghanistan, which started in 2001. With such a small defence force, pretty much every serving member has been rotated through a combat zone at least once in the last 10 years of constant deployments.

 

Totally true, 4 Victoria Crosses in Afghanistan.  Absolutely amazing and true aussie military spirit.  Best defence force in the world per capita.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.  

[Traveling Sailor]

I still cannot understand why the US seems to be unwilling or unable to help with air support or ground troops. Some Navy Seals or Army Rangers might be a big help. Has Obama gone all wimpy??. 

[neverdie]

 

I wish Tony Abbott had the same common sense as the Dutch.
 
Maybe he is trying to extricate himself from committing the taxpayers money to the Deep?
 
On the other hand Australian military might benefit from the field experience in active zone.

 
I think Australia has plenty of experience in war zones. Iraq 2003 - 2008 and the ongoing deployment to Afghanistan, which started in 2001. With such a small defence force, pretty much every serving member has been rotated through a combat zone at least once in the last 10 years of constant deployments.
 

Totally true, 4 Victoria Crosses in Afghanistan.  Absolutely amazing and true aussie military spirit.  Best defence force in the world per capita.

Clearly ABCer has no idea what he's talking about as the Australia Military has no shortage of Action having been involved in many conflicts over the last 100 years or so, not to mention various peace keeping missions and so-forth.

He must come from one of those mighty nations, one of the ones that seems to keep its citizens totally unaware of what's happening outside its own borders.

The ignorance of some people really irritates the crap out of me.

It's a pity that the Dutch PM hasn't shown he's got some more balls, he's letting down his people IMHO. Pussy. Edited July 29, 2014 by neverdie

[ABCer]

 

I wish Tony Abbott had the same common sense as the Dutch.

 

Maybe he is trying to extricate himself from committing the taxpayers money to the Deep?

 

On the other hand Australian military might benefit from the field experience in active zone.

 

I think Australia has plenty of experience in war zones. Iraq 2003 - 2008 and the ongoing deployment to Afghanistan, which started in 2001. With such a small defence force, pretty much every serving member has been rotated through a combat zone at least once in the last 10 years of constant deployments.

 

 

I was talking about experiences in defending our country against military aggressors.  Not about MPs working far off our borders.

Primary function of our Defence Force is protection of our country.  Fail to see this in Iraq 2003 - 2008 or Afganistan in 2001- till present day.

if you are referring to our military obligations to our allies (GB, US etc.) the questionable morality of their presence there should be also considered.

[ABCer]

Assuming I have no knowledge of our military past is not fair.  Deduction based on this is pure speculation. Calling Dutch PM a pussy and claiming he has no balls is not only rude but unfair.

 

Admitting that our PM has no brains would more in order.  

 

Assigning my origins to "one of those mighty countries that keeps its citizens unaware..."  is a total lunacy.

 

Personal insults and calling people names for having opinion different from your own is a sign of... what?

[skippybangkok]

Assuming I have no knowledge of our military past is not fair.  Deduction based on this is pure speculation. Calling Dutch PM a pussy and claiming he has no balls is not only rude but unfair.
 

Not just PM :)

Even the US would think twice before going for a Russian juggler, I doubt Nederlandse Laaste Hoop / a bunch of AWW-ers would stand a chance


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[simple1]

Australian military not to enter Ukraine. Armed AFP police are allowed, but not going to the actual MH17 crash site.

 

'But we are not taking arms onto the site. Our convoy will not be armed. It's a police-led humanitarian mission.' Ms Bishop thanked the Ukrainian government for recalling its parliament for the vote.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711940/AFP-officers-WILL-carry-guns-Ukraine-not-MH17-crash-site.html