How to stop dog attacking others

[Sawan Chan 7]

I have a 8 year old German Shepherd that I have problems with when going for a run.

Other dogs, some stray, approach and do the sniffing thing then he attacks them.

Yesterday, he got into a scrap with 2 other dogs and I didn't know how to separate them. He had a grip of one's neck and wouldn't let go. Very scary as I nearly got bit by both of them although I think mine would never actually bite me.

I keep him in the garden mostly but occasionally he gets out and if another dog goes by he attacks it even if it is on a leash.

He never is aggressive to humans apart from once when a kid repeadedly pulled his tail- he snapped at him.

Any advice?

Even in the park I can't stop and talk to anyone if they have a male dog.

[Crossy]

Get him a muzzle for when you go walkies, at least he won't then be able to get a grip on anyone/thing.

I'm sure others will be along with advice on how to train your best friend.

[wayned]

Has he been neutered? If hot that's the first step!

[Sawan Chan 7]

He isn't neutered and thanks for the suggestion.

If he wears a muzzle, then he obviously can't bite but maybe.he'll start a fight and be unable to defend himself!

[aussiebrian]

Have you had him for 8 years? Has he been like this all his life? Have you done any obedience training with him? If he is a new dog, and you don't have any dog training schools around and you have not done much training yourself, I would also say get a muzzle for when you take him for a walk? An 8 year old GSD will be very hard to train, I think you may have left it too late. You should be able to teach him to sit and stay and what "no" means, but if you aren't committed to spending a lot of time training him, the muzzle is your only option. Not sure where you live, but here is a school that may be able to help.http://www.k9pattaya.com/PATTAYA_CANINE_INTERNATIONAL_COLLEGE_English.htm

Use a correction collar and have a strong lead so you can give him harsh corrections whenever he tries to attack another dog. When he is getting nasty with another, he may not mean to bite you, but it is quite probable you will be bitten with friendly fire. And as the previous poster said, get him neutered. That may help a lot.

GSD life span is normally not much more than 12 or 13. The training will help you greatly with your next dog, as they train you how to train your dog.

Edited July 28, 2014 by aussiebrian

[Siamsky]

Its a German Shepherd what do you expect, Typical used for security, Not a Family dog and known for attacking people, a Dangerous breed of dog. That's all I have to say on the issue.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Siamsky

[Thaiberius]

What do you expect from an attack dog? Put a muzzle on when it goes out and take some time in training it ............... properly. The quote you made about not wanting to put a muzzle on him in in case he starts a fight is nonsensical and indicates you know nothing about dogs.

[aussiebrian]

Its a German Shepherd what do you expect, Typical used for security, Not a Family dog and known for attacking people, a Dangerous breed of dog. That's all I have to say on the issue.

A GSD makes a great family pet, but they need plenty of exercise and training. Yes, they can be used for security, tracking and as a seeing eye dog. If they were a "dangerous breed" they would not be used as seeing eye dogs. They are Watchful, Alert, Curious, Obedient, Loyal, Confident, Courageous, Intelligent Well breed GSD's are not know for attacking people, small dogs attack a lot more people than GSDs. They had a bad name in Australia because there was a ban on importing them till 1972, so they were developing bad temperaments with too much close breeding for too long. After the ban was lifted, the quality improved remarkably,and now are of a very high standard. The standard of the breeding of the dog applies to any breed of dog, in any country. My experience is from Australia.

When you get puppy factories churning them out, with no regard to temperament, they can be vicious due to the breeder not concerned about what they are breeding.. If they are not trained and think they are the leader of the pack, then you can have big problems too.

After owning and training GSDs for over 25 years, I have to disagree strongly with your ill informed statement.

Edited July 28, 2014 by aussiebrian

[Thaiberius]

Its a German Shepherd what do you expect, Typical used for security, Not a Family dog and known for attacking people, a Dangerous breed of dog. That's all I have to say on the issue.

A GSD makes a great family pet, but they need plenty of exercise and training. Yes, they can be used for security, tracking and as a seeing eye dog. If they were a "dangerous breed" they would not be used as seeing eye dogs. They are Watchful, Alert, Curious, Obedient, Loyal, Confident, Courageous, Intelligent Well breed GSD's are not know for attacking people, small dogs attack a lot more people than GSDs. They had a bad name in Australia because there was a ban on importing them till 1972, so they were developing bad temperaments with too much close breeding for too long. After the ban was lifted, the quality improved remarkably,and now are of a very high standard.

When you get puppy factories churning them out, with no regard to temperament, they can be vicious dur to the breeder not concerned about what they are breeding.. If they are not trained and think they are the leader of the pack, then you can have big problems too.

After owning and training GSDs for over 25 years, I have to disagree strongly with your ill informed statement.

Considering you felt the need to copy and paste most of your post, are you really an authority on dogs or Wiki?

[aussiebrian]

Its a German Shepherd what do you expect, Typical used for security, Not a Family dog and known for attacking people, a Dangerous breed of dog. That's all I have to say on the issue.

A GSD makes a great family pet, but they need plenty of exercise and training. Yes, they can be used for security, tracking and as a seeing eye dog. If they were a "dangerous breed" they would not be used as seeing eye dogs. They are Watchful, Alert, Curious, Obedient, Loyal, Confident, Courageous, Intelligent Well breed GSD's are not know for attacking people, small dogs attack a lot more people than GSDs. They had a bad name in Australia because there was a ban on importing them till 1972, so they were developing bad temperaments with too much close breeding for too long. After the ban was lifted, the quality improved remarkably,and now are of a very high standard.

When you get puppy factories churning them out, with no regard to temperament, they can be vicious dur to the breeder not concerned about what they are breeding.. If they are not trained and think they are the leader of the pack, then you can have big problems too.

After owning and training GSDs for over 25 years, I have to disagree strongly with your ill informed statement.

Considering you felt the need to copy and paste most of your post, are you really an authority on dogs or Wiki?

The only part I copied was Watchful, Alert, Curious, Obedient, Loyal, Confident, Courageous, Intelligent, and only because that is the standard for the dog. But I see your post about it being an attack dog was definitely your own work.

Edited July 28, 2014 by aussiebrian

[JusMe]

If possible without getting yourself bitten, from the back, grab the dog's hind legs and lift. Once they are off the ground, he will lose all confidence in his ability to do anything further.

Problems could be the other dogs then taking advantage of the situation.

[aussiebrian]

If possible without getting yourself bitten, from the back, grab the dog's hind legs and lift. Once they are off the ground, he will lose all confidence in his ability to do anything further.

Problems could be the other dogs then taking advantage of the situation.

We were always taught at the GSD club to grab the tail and pull lifting the rear end off the ground and as they let go to swing them around in a circle so they can't bite you, This should be only tried if there are 2 people, one for each tail to separate them. (as long as they both have tails) As was also said, the legs will also work. It is too dangerous if there is only one person.

If you don't know what you are doing, better to leave them, Throwing water over them or squirting them with a hose also may work, but usually not possible to find a hose nearby.

[noendtoit]

He isn't neutered and thanks for the suggestion.

If he wears a muzzle, then he obviously can't bite but maybe.he'll start a fight and be unable to defend himself!

Well that strikes me as a good lesson for him in the school of hard knocks. Maybe if he gets his assume (take off the ume) kicked real good a couple of times he'll learn something.

And, yeah, whack his nuts off.

Edited July 28, 2014 by noendtoit

[cooked]

I have a dog that fights with the same dog occasionally, territorial thing. The first time it happened I forced a stick between his teeth and pushed him away. I may have hit him. Since then he has a choke collar and I can just about lift him off the ground with that. Sounds cruel but it's better than him biting the other dog's ear off as he nearly did last time and he has calmed down since. Hitting them when they are fighting does no good at all unless you nearly kill them and can be dangerous for you. Muzzles have their place.

[wayned]

Since he is 8 years old, neutering will help, but most likely will not cure him of it as it has now become a "habit" I would put a muzzle on him at least for a while and walk him with a leash and a "choke" collar. The leash should be a "two handled" leash.

By that I mean that you should have a handle on the leash about 50 cm from the collar attachment and then another handle at the end, about 2 maters. You should use the short handle to keep him by your side and praise him when there are other dogs around and the long handle at other times.

They are not available commercially in this configuration but are easy to make out of rope. The spring loaded clasps are available at most hardware stores- Home Pro, Home Mart, etc. I've even seen street vendors selling them.

[fredge45]

Neuter him. Then get into a habit of watching, and learning from, Dog Whisperer program - he gives some great adivce - for people.

Never kick or beat on a dog - especially when they're in the midst of a fight - they don't even know what is happening then.

[BottleBlonde]

If possible without getting yourself bitten, from the back, grab the dog's hind legs and lift. Once they are off the ground, he will lose all confidence in his ability to do anything further.

Problems could be the other dogs then taking advantage of the situation.

We were always taught at the GSD club to grab the tail and pull lifting the rear end off the ground and as they let go to swing them around in a circle so they can't bite you, This should be only tried if there are 2 people, one for each tail to separate them. (as long as they both have tails) As was also said, the legs will also work. It is too dangerous if there is only one person.

If you don't know what you are doing, better to leave them, Throwing water over them or squirting them with a hose also may work, but usually not possible to find a hose nearby.

You should NEVER pull or lift any dog by the tail. The tail is attached to the spine and these actions can cause serious spinal or neurological damage.

Also, German Shepherds are prome to a hereditery disease called DM (Degenerative Myelopethy) or sometimes known as DMGS (DM German Shepherd) which is an auto immune disease of the neurological system. This is a horrible disease without cure that leads to full paralysis

[aussiebrian]

If possible without getting yourself bitten, from the back, grab the dog's hind legs and lift. Once they are off the ground, he will lose all confidence in his ability to do anything further.

Problems could be the other dogs then taking advantage of the situation.

We were always taught at the GSD club to grab the tail and pull lifting the rear end off the ground and as they let go to swing them around in a circle so they can't bite you, This should be only tried if there are 2 people, one for each tail to separate them. (as long as they both have tails) As was also said, the legs will also work. It is too dangerous if there is only one person.

If you don't know what you are doing, better to leave them, Throwing water over them or squirting them with a hose also may work, but usually not possible to find a hose nearby.

You should NEVER pull or lift any dog by the tail. The tail is attached to the spine and these actions can cause serious spinal or neurological damage.

Also, German Shepherds are prome to a hereditery disease called DM (Degenerative Myelopethy) or sometimes known as DMGS (DM German Shepherd) which is an auto immune disease of the neurological system. This is a horrible disease without cure that leads to full paralysis

I do know if you pick up a guinea pig by the tail it's eyes fall out.

Seriously, in 25 years of attending Dog Classes often 2 times a week at the GSDCV , I did see quite a few fights, they were always separated by pulling the tails, with no one being bitten and no injuries to the dogs. I am sure if someone's dog was injured by it's tail being pulled I would have heard about it. If they hadn't have been separated, the injuries the dogs would have sustained would have been very severe.

As it was a training school, there were many people that brought their dogs along as they couldn't control them. My two Shepherds had a bad habit of wanting to chase other dogs when running free at the park, but the best command I ever taught them was the drop command. They could be heading full speed towards another dog, and if I yelled out drop, they would both go straight down. Drop is a very submissive command. If I tried to call them in the same situation, they wouldn't hear me.

One of my bitches was in the demo team and we would often take 5 or 6 German Shepherds to elderly peoples homes. Almost all the elderly were thrilled at the sight of them and their eyes would all light up and bring much joy to them. If they were attack dogs, I am sure it would be outlawed in the nanny state.

German Shepherds have many hereditary diseases, the most common in the club would have been Hip Dysplasia. I suppose the point about the Degenerative Myelopethy is that you wouldn't want to pull a dogs tail if it had that. The same goes for HD. But in a fight you do to the best of your ability to stop them fighting. The GSDCV has a program to eradicate this nasty hereditary disease, by only breeding dogs that have been x-rayed for the disease and found to be suitable for breeding. This is also one of the reasons you should get your dogs from a well recognised registered breeder, as they will make sure the parents temperament and genetics is worth breeding from, so you have the best chance of not having a dog with problems.

I have done a search and it does seem to be common practise to pull their tails to separate them. There is however one site I found that agrees with you. If you are interested I have some of the links below.

http://nycdoggies.com/break-up-dog-fight/#comments

http://moderndogmagazine.com/articles/ask-expert-breaking-dog-fight/20223

Edited July 29, 2014 by aussiebrian

[Thaiberius]

If possible without getting yourself bitten, from the back, grab the dog's hind legs and lift. Once they are off the ground, he will lose all confidence in his ability to do anything further.

Problems could be the other dogs then taking advantage of the situation.

We were always taught at the GSD club to grab the tail and pull lifting the rear end off the ground and as they let go to swing them around in a circle so they can't bite you, This should be only tried if there are 2 people, one for each tail to separate them. (as long as they both have tails) As was also said, the legs will also work. It is too dangerous if there is only one person.

If you don't know what you are doing, better to leave them, Throwing water over them or squirting them with a hose also may work, but usually not possible to find a hose nearby.

You should NEVER pull or lift any dog by the tail. The tail is attached to the spine and these actions can cause serious spinal or neurological damage.

Also, German Shepherds are prome to a hereditery disease called DM (Degenerative Myelopethy) or sometimes known as DMGS (DM German Shepherd) which is an auto immune disease of the neurological system. This is a horrible disease without cure that leads to full paralysis

I do know if you pick up a guinea pig by the tail it's eyes fall out.

Seriously, in 25 years of attending Dog Classes often 2 times a week at the GSDCV , I did see quite a few fights, they were always separated by pulling the tails, with no one being bitten and no injuries to the dogs. I am sure if someone's dog was injured by it's tail being pulled I would have heard about it. If they hadn't have been separated, the injuries the dogs would have sustained would have been very severe.

As it was a training school, there were many people that brought their dogs along as they couldn't control them. My two Shepherds had a bad habit of wanting to chase other dogs when running free at the park, but the best command I ever taught them was the drop command. They could be heading full speed towards another dog, and if I yelled out drop, they would both go straight down. Drop is a very submissive command. If I tried to call them in the same situation, they wouldn't hear me.

One of my bitches was in the demo team and we would often take 5 or 6 German Shepherds to elderly peoples homes. Almost all the elderly were thrilled at the sight of them and their eyes would all light up and bring much joy to them. If they were attack dogs, I am sure it would be outlawed in the nanny state.

German Shepherds have many hereditary diseases, the most common in the club would have been Hip Dysplasia. I suppose the point about the Degenerative Myelopethy is that you wouldn't want to pull a dogs tail if it had that. The same goes for HD. But in a fight you do to the best of your ability to stop them fighting. The GSDCV has a program to eradicate this nasty hereditary disease, by only breeding dogs that have been x-rayed for the disease and found to be suitable for breeding. This is also one of the reasons you should get your dogs from a well recognised registered breeder, as they will make sure the parents temperament and genetics is worth breeding from, so you have the best chance of not having a dog with problems.

I have done a search and it does seem to be common practise to pull their tails to separate them. There is however one site I found that agrees with you. If you are interested I have some of the links below.

http://nycdoggies.com/break-up-dog-fight/#comments

http://moderndogmagazine.com/articles/ask-expert-breaking-dog-fight/20223

your guinea pig theory is total nonsense very much like your theories about dogs which explains why your dog likes scrapping.Just remember 2 things that most inadequate dog like doing.

Giving them varying instructions to sit, stand, rollover, leave - They won't have a clue what you're talking about. Dogs haven't evolved to include one to one conversations in their deck of cards. They don't understand things the same way as a human does, they do not display human behaviours.

Avoiding the fight is infinitely better than pulling tails but the alternative isn't so macho. I really do despair.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Thaiberius

[Sawan Chan 7]

What do you expect from an attack dog? Put a muzzle on when it goes out and take some time in training it ............... properly. The quote you made about not wanting to put a muzzle on him in in case he starts a fight is nonsensical and indicates you know nothing about dogs.

I do know very little about dogs hence joining this forum and asking questions. Thank for your advice.

[aussiebrian]

Thaiberius, on 29 Jul 2014 - 00:05, said:

your guinea pig theory is total nonsense very much like your theories about dogs which explains why your dog likes scrapping.Just remember 2 things that most inadequate dog like doing.

Giving them varying instructions to sit, stand, rollover, leave - They won't have a clue what you're talking about. Dogs haven't evolved to include one to one conversations in their deck of cards. They don't understand things the same way as a human does, they do not display human behaviours.

Avoiding the fight is infinitely better than pulling tails but the alternative isn't so macho. I really do despair.

I could have expected you would not understand about the guinea pig just like you know little about dog training. Guinea pigs don't have tails!! Der If you give dogs instructions and they obey is that a myth in your eyes or some conspiracy theory as to why they obey? How can you say they don't understand what you tell them? To keep this simple for you, is it luck when you say sit and they sit? When you tell them stay and they stay till you tell them they can move is just luck? Dogs will obey commands because they understand. You amaze me that by some stroke of luck you said something I almost agree with, and that is avoiding the fight is infinitely better than (but it should have finished with) having to separate them once they are fighting. There is nothing macho about having to separate 2 dogs fighting. I do despair with you too and will not waste my time to reply to someone with your mentality. Period.

Edited July 29, 2014 by aussiebrian

[Thaiberius]

Dear me Brian, you really haven't got a clue, have you?

[Sawan Chan 7]

Maybe there's some truth about dog lovers not liking people.

Come on dudes, love each other.

[alfieconn]

What do you expect from an attack dog? Put a muzzle on when it goes out and take some time in training it ............... properly. The quote you made about not wanting to put a muzzle on him in in case he starts a fight is nonsensical and indicates you know nothing about dogs.

Can you elaborate on this point as I don't understand !

Edited July 30, 2014 by alfieconn

[aussiebrian]

Maybe there's some truth about dog lovers not liking people.

Come on dudes, love each other.

Most dog people like other people, just sometimes they find their dog to be more loyal and intelligent than some people they come into contact with. Sorry, that is not possible.

I like people, it is just some ignorant people that aren't worth wasting my time with. If you want to listen to someone that says that dogs can't understand what you say, even when you give them a command they have been trained to obey and attacks myself and others with his rubbish well good luck. And someone like this is trying to give you information about dogs! Thiaberius knows nothing about dogs and is not a dog lover. He believes that all German Shepherds are attack dogs. Shown by his first (rude) comment to you. This is typical of someone with no knowledge of the breed. Any dog can be trained to be an attack dog,

I suspect you have not had your dog since it was a puppy have you?

Edited July 30, 2014 by aussiebrian

[Sawan Chan 7]

What do you expect from an attack dog? Put a muzzle on when it goes out and take some time in training it ............... properly. The quote you made about not wanting to put a muzzle on him in in case he starts a fight is nonsensical and indicates you know nothing about dogs.

Can you elaborate on this point as I don't understand !

I meant that if I take him jogging around my house and he's in a muzzle, other dogs might attack him and he'll be defenseless. It seems I am missing something too.

[alfieconn]

What do you expect from an attack dog? Put a muzzle on when it goes out and take some time in training it ............... properly. The quote you made about not wanting to put a muzzle on him in in case he starts a fight is nonsensical and indicates you know nothing about dogs.

Can you elaborate on this point as I don't understand !

I meant that if I take him jogging around my house and he's in a muzzle, other dogs might attack him and he'll be defenseless. It seems I am missing something too.

I understood exactly what you meant Sawan but there again I probably know nothing about dogs as well !

[alfieconn]

Dear me Brian, you really haven't got a clue, have you?

And you do have with comments like this

Posted Yesterday, 00:05

What do you expect from an attack dog?

[aussiebrian]

What do you expect from an attack dog? Put a muzzle on when it goes out and take some time in training it ............... properly. The quote you made about not wanting to put a muzzle on him in in case he starts a fight is nonsensical and indicates you know nothing about dogs.

Can you elaborate on this point as I don't understand !

I meant that if I take him jogging around my house and he's in a muzzle, other dogs might attack him and he'll be defenseless. It seems I am missing something too.

The problem you are having is your dog is attacking other dogs. There will always be a slight risk that another dog will attack your dog when your dog has a muzzle on and he can't protect himself, but the chances are pretty low. When your outside your property, always have him on a strong leather leash and using a correction collar. I say leather leash because if it was chain and he flies at another dog the chain may injure your hand. If you see another dog that looks like he is interested in your dog, or visa versa, cross the road, Do not to let them come too close to each other. You must let him know you disapprove of his actions every time he looks like he wants to fight.

The most likely scenario where a fight will occur is if your dog acts aggressively towards another dog, and flies at it, the other dog provoked by your dogs aggression in turn attacks your dog. If you can minimise the chance of this happening it is very unlikely he will be attacked. Just like it is very unlikely of you walking along the street and a dog attacks you. It can happen, especially if you are aggressive towards the dog.

In Thailand there are many soi dogs wandering the street. Fights do occur, but considering the amount of dogs wandering around, it happens rarely as they are socialised towards having other dogs around all their lives. That is one reason why your dog is most likely attacking other dogs because he wasn't socialised as a puppy. If you try and over protect your dog when he is young, he doesn't learn the social skills of getting on with other dogs.

One way you can help train him to stop fighting is to have a friend with a dog on a leash, and you have yours on a leash.Then you both walk many times towards each other and but not in striking distance. Start with a larger gap and move to a smaller gap when you pass.When your dog starts to make an signs of aggression towards the dog reprimand him and give him a sharp correction change direction and a strong no, at the same time. As you are walking him, don't hold the leash too tight so he can't move but have a limp leash. If you hold him too close it can make him more protective of you. But so he can't move more than about 1 metre from you.

Hope that helps and good luck.

[Sawan Chan 7]

Great explanation, thanks.