Getting Fed Up Of Thailand

[wolfmanjack]

I have lived here 4 years now and I am starting to look for another place. I am simply feed up with the trouble of doing business here, visa, work-permit etc. and of course also now having to report to the police, when we go and visit friends and family here. It is just too much and I have become really sick of it.

Our company here could e.g. grow and easily hire 2-3 skilled foreigners, but since we need hire 4 Thai-employees to get one work-permit, then it is simply not worth staying here. And we can not find the skilled local staff, so it is impossible to grow the business here. It is simply stupid and frustrating as well. Can not find local staff, but need them to be able to hire skilled foreign staff. It is just stupid.

Will visit both Cambodia and Philippines during the next couple of weeks and then decide where to move. One thing is for sure... I am out of here. I was hoping for better conditions for foreigners here, but have seen nothing else that more and more restrictions. It seems as Thailand is only a place for older people with their pensions to spend.

A shame really...

There are ways around this. You can make a deal with 4 thais that you will make Social Health contribution payments but not give them a salary for not working in order to have documentation for hiring 4 thais. That is not 100% kosher but you could hire 4 workers by the day and only pay them when they work. I did this and when they only came to work a few days a month I just kept them on the payroll. When the labor department and the social department asked why they were making such low wages I simply explained I pay them a daily wage and that is all they show up for in a month. They may be more strict now though. I sold my business when the minimum wage went from 186 to 300 baht a day.

[starky]

the truth is like all things wherever you go is where "you" will be. Fools are still fools no matter country they live in and so are the disgruntled, angry, whingeing etc. Deal with your self first if possible but failing that you will still be wherever you go. I have no great love for police, but having a go at them outside the station is going to get you in the shit anywhere in the world and probably a well deserved slap round the head as well.

[ATF]

the truth is like all things wherever you go is where "you" will be. Fools are still fools no matter country they live in and so are the disgruntled, angry, whingeing etc. Deal with your self first if possible but failing that you will still be wherever you go. I have no great love for police, but having a go at them outside the station is going to get you in the shit anywhere in the world and probably a well deserved slap round the head as well.

Exactly, I believe the scientific term is "You Can't Put Lipstick on a Pig".

[Berkshire]

Well, I have 18 years of experience establishing and running companies in other similar countries (e.g. Vietnam). None of those places have I had the same stupid issues as here, when it comes to ownership, work-permits, visa etc. In e.g. Vietnam I automatically got a 3 year temp-residence card as a company owner, investor and director. I did not have to show up some place every 90 days and I could hire as many foreigners as I wanted.

Of course, this begs the question: If you were running successful companies in Vietnam, a place with none of the "stupid issues" that you're dealing with here, no requirements to hire locals, no visa issues, etc., why did you leave this Utopia to come to Thailand? You don't have to answer, but it does beg the question.

[choochoo]

dont understimate the power of thai girls.

[Time Traveller]

My feelings, I'm very happy with the recent changes.

The idiots who pretend that they have something to offer Thailand will move on.

And what is it that you offer to Thailand, besides calling people you don't like idiots?

Edited July 30, 2014 by Time Traveller

[loppylugs1]

dont understimate the power of thai girls.

Never,but for sure they underestimate more than a few farang. Soon as they they think they have you in their knickers sorry pockets,a runner is called for.

How any farang can think a Thai woman can ........ well, they will always go with the bigger wallet ,the lot of'em

[robertthebruce]

I enjoy living here, the only drawback for me, is the driving... Apart from that, it's fine for me, and my simple life...

[thailiketoo]

dont understimate the power of thai girls.

Never,but for sure they underestimate more than a few farang. Soon as they they think they have you in their knickers sorry pockets,a runner is called for.

How any farang can think a Thai woman can ........ well, they will always go with the bigger wallet ,the lot of'em

First time I got here was in 19 and 68. I don't find that to be the case. I have however seen many cases of Karma in action.

[tonytigerbkk]

My feelings, I'm very happy with the recent changes.

The idiots who pretend that they have something to offer Thailand will move on.

And what is it that you offer to Thailand, besides calling people you don't like idiots?

Since I have worked for my current company (Thai owned) I have helped them to increase their exports by over 600% and expand their workforce from 100 to over 400 workers.

Next year as a result of our expansion, we open our new factory, which covers 160,000 square meters.

Over to you.

Edited July 30, 2014 by tonytigerbkk

[mrtoad]

My feelings, I'm very happy with the recent changes.

The idiots who pretend that they have something to offer Thailand will move on.

And what is it that you offer to Thailand, besides calling people you don't like idiots?

Idiots, such a s people that spend all their time moaning about Thailand being a 3rd World Country, and as soon as they start introducing 1st World laws and rules, they complain about how unfair it is.So, yes they are "idiots", but maybe to make it a little clearer "self-entitled idiots"

[tonytigerbkk]

Hey Time boy, I'm still waiting to hear your contribution.

Oh, and spending all your money on girls with tattoos behind their ears is not a contribution to society.

[ATF]

My feelings, I'm very happy with the recent changes.

The idiots who pretend that they have something to offer Thailand will move on.

And what is it that you offer to Thailand, besides calling people you don't like idiots?

I'm sure Tony likes quite a lot of idiots but he was referring to the idiots that are resistant to change.

As a time traveler you are invited to go back to the future.

[FritsSikkink]

I just need a place to have a business, where I do not need to hire 4 local staff, when I want to hire a foreigner who can do the job. Besides that would be nice to be able to own 100% of the business, I invest 100% in and not only 49%. Have until now stayed here for personal reasons and because I hoped things would change to the better. Since this does not seem to be the case, then luckily I have other options.

There are actually countries out there, who actually value foreign investment and skills and who will not make things as complicated as possible for me. The current situation here does not attract or value foreign investors and entrepreneurs. It might take some time for Thailand to see that, but when they do it might also hurt the people living on their pensions here.

You make it sound as if Thailand owes you a living. It doesn't. And don't make it sound as if you're doing or wanting to do Thailand any favors. You're only in it for yourself. You are not what Thailand considers "valuable foreign investment." But as you say, you have other options. Take it. When you are gone, it will be as if you were never here. Same as the OP. Why people try to overstate their self-importance is beyond me. You mean as much to Thailand as you did to your home country...which is why you left in the first place.

Well, can you then tell me what benefit Thailand has from chasing an IT-entrepreneur away from Thailand? We have actually over a very short time, built a profitable company here that could grow even further - if only it was possible to find proper local skilled staff (which we can not find).

So if we want to hire a foreigner or two instead, then we have to hire 4 local staff more to get work-permits for them (2 foreigners = 8 local staff and so on...) What point is there to hire e.g. 8 people who can only make coffee? (We already have trouble enough with the 4 Thai-people we have.) Our other staff is currently based in other surrounding countries and jobs outsourced to sub-suppliers outside Thailand, because we can not find skilled enough staff here.

What does Thailand benefit from us moving our company to another place? Thailand does not owe me anything, but I do not see chasing away good companies (no matter big or small) as something smart to do. Could you please explain how this benefits Thailand in the long run? Would it not be smarter of Thailand to make it possible for us to hire more foreigners here and then slowly over time hire and train more local staff? At least the revenue would flow into the country and would be spent here, by the employees and costs related to that.

You see, the thing is that I actually like this country and would like to contribute to it - if only it would let me. But how is that possible, if the rules make no sense? As I see if Thailand is living in a bubble of illusion, by thinking it in the long run will be able to manage everything on its own.

The fact is that the educational system in this place sucks and it will for sure not benefit anyone, by pushing out foreigners who can contribute. Does Thailand benefit from us now leaving the country and firing 4 local employees?

About 6 months ago, I had a meeting here with 2 foreigners from my home country, who wanted to invest here. But they ended up moving to another country, simply because of the rules here. Who wants to e.g. own only 49% of a 100% investment? It is crazy and will hurt the country in the long run. It is already hurting the country.

This country can not survive mainly on GoGo bars and Russian tourists...

What point is there to hire e.g. 8 people who can only make coffee? (We already have trouble enough with the 4 Thai-people we have.)

Hire Thai people who you can train to be skilled.

[isawasnake]

I pretty much agree with the op's general sentiment (ducking rotten tomatoes). For myself, I have only been able to deal with so much, until I finally realized it is torture being here unless you are retired, and don't have to worry about a visa too much. Don't get me wrong, if you are just on a beach somewhere sipping bad, overpriced Marguerita's, you got it made. Great place to retire.

Working and starting a business here is just an endless pain of payoffs and truly idiotic co-workers. My theory is people that just can't hack it or make it in their own countries come here, so you end up being managed by total deuchbaggy, really strange people that are just off. Then you have to deal with the fact that they actually think they are quality people who are doing a good job lol. Honestly, give me competent management and I will work hard over this any day. Starting a business here may have less red tape in terms of paperwork, but I would much rather go through the process in the US. I look forward to being wished adieu a la the op. It really is nice to look in the rear view and see the pile of steaming swill behind you.

[tonytigerbkk]

I pretty much agree with the op's general sentiment (ducking rotten tomatoes). For myself, I have only been able to deal with so much, until I finally realized it is torture being here unless you are retired, and don't have to worry about a visa too much. Don't get me wrong, if you are just on a beach somewhere sipping bad, overpriced Marguerita's, you got it made. Great place to retire.

Working and starting a business here is just an endless pain of payoffs and truly idiotic co-workers. My theory is people that just can't hack it or make it in their own countries come here, so you end up being managed by total deuchbaggy, really strange people that are just off. Then you have to deal with the fact that they actually think they are quality people who are doing a good job lol. Honestly, give me competent management and I will work hard over this any day. Starting a business here may have less red tape in terms of paperwork, but I would much rather go through the process in the US. I look forward to being wished adieu a la the op. It really is nice to look in the rear view and see the pile of steaming swill behind you.

Yeh, failed in the US, try Thailand, failed in Thailand, back the the US.

Must be hard to get motivated when all that you can do is fail.

[isawasnake]

I pretty much agree with the op's general sentiment (ducking rotten tomatoes). For myself, I have only been able to deal with so much, until I finally realized it is torture being here unless you are retired, and don't have to worry about a visa too much. Don't get me wrong, if you are just on a beach somewhere sipping bad, overpriced Marguerita's, you got it made. Great place to retire.

Working and starting a business here is just an endless pain of payoffs and truly idiotic co-workers. My theory is people that just can't hack it or make it in their own countries come here, so you end up being managed by total deuchbaggy, really strange people that are just off. Then you have to deal with the fact that they actually think they are quality people who are doing a good job lol. Honestly, give me competent management and I will work hard over this any day. Starting a business here may have less red tape in terms of paperwork, but I would much rather go through the process in the US. I look forward to being wished adieu a la the op. It really is nice to look in the rear view and see the pile of steaming swill behind you.

Yeh, failed in the US, try Thailand, failed in Thailand, back the the US.

Must be hard to get motivated when all that you can do is fail.

Where did I say I failed in the US? Reading comp class time. You're supporting my claim of the lifelong Thailand expat being somewhat slow.

The basic truth is, if I am wrong, then Thailand is filled with high quality, competent people. But, we all know this is not that case. Case closed.

Edited July 30, 2014 by isawasnake

[Rumblecat]

Time to run back to Nanny state. SIMPLES.

But Thailand is the nanny state. Regular police stop and checks. Curfews. Even having television controlled and switched off at a certain time and replaced with a government test card. Kafka-esque bureaucratic nightmares. Jail for criticising certain people. History books re-called and re-written.

[ATF]

You're supporting my claim of the lifelong Thailand expat being somewhat slow.

The basic truth is, if I am wrong, then Thailand is filled with high quality, competent people. But, we all know this is not that case. Case closed.

A lot of the "senior" expats here built the Country. The building you are probably living in, the factory that makes your food and the car you drive plus all the infrastructure.

It's obvious we move in different circles.

[Berkshire]

I pretty much agree with the op's general sentiment (ducking rotten tomatoes). For myself, I have only been able to deal with so much, until I finally realized it is torture being here unless you are retired, and don't have to worry about a visa too much. Don't get me wrong, if you are just on a beach somewhere sipping bad, overpriced Marguerita's, you got it made. Great place to retire.

Working and starting a business here is just an endless pain of payoffs and truly idiotic co-workers. My theory is people that just can't hack it or make it in their own countries come here, so you end up being managed by total deuchbaggy, really strange people that are just off. Then you have to deal with the fact that they actually think they are quality people who are doing a good job lol. Honestly, give me competent management and I will work hard over this any day. Starting a business here may have less red tape in terms of paperwork, but I would much rather go through the process in the US. I look forward to being wished adieu a la the op. It really is nice to look in the rear view and see the pile of steaming swill behind you.

Yeh, failed in the US, try Thailand, failed in Thailand, back the the US.

Must be hard to get motivated when all that you can do is fail.

Where did I say I failed in the US? Reading comp class time. You're supporting my claim of the lifelong Thailand expat being somewhat slow.

The basic truth is, if I am wrong, then Thailand is filled with high quality, competent people. But, we all know this is not that case. Case closed.

You don't have to "say" that you failed in the US and elsewhere, it's obvious that you did. From your posts here and other threads Khun snake, you come across as a bitter, pathetic, little man. But I'm sure you already know that.

[tonytigerbkk]

Thank you Berkshire, I was about to reply along the same lines but you beat me to it.

As you rightly noticed, I did not say that the snake had said that he had failed in the US, the suggestion was that i believe that he failed.

Your view on this matter strengthens my belief.

[partington]

I pretty much agree with the op's general sentiment (ducking rotten tomatoes). For myself, I have only been able to deal with so much, until I finally realized it is torture being here unless you are retired, and don't have to worry about a visa too much. Don't get me wrong, if you are just on a beach somewhere sipping bad, overpriced Marguerita's, you got it made. Great place to retire.

Working and starting a business here is just an endless pain of payoffs and truly idiotic co-workers. My theory is people that just can't hack it or make it in their own countries come here, so you end up being managed by total deuchbaggy, really strange people that are just off. Then you have to deal with the fact that they actually think they are quality people who are doing a good job lol. Honestly, give me competent management and I will work hard over this any day. Starting a business here may have less red tape in terms of paperwork, but I would much rather go through the process in the US. I look forward to being wished adieu a la the op. It really is nice to look in the rear view and see the pile of steaming swill behind you.

Yeh, failed in the US, try Thailand, failed in Thailand, back the the US.

Must be hard to get motivated when all that you can do is fail.

Where did I say I failed in the US? Reading comp class time. You're supporting my claim of the lifelong Thailand expat being somewhat slow.

The basic truth is, if I am wrong, then Thailand is filled with high quality, competent people. But, we all know this is not that case. Case closed.

You don't have to "say" that you failed in the US and elsewhere, it's obvious that you did. From your posts here and other threads Khun snake, you come across as a bitter, pathetic, little man. But I'm sure you already know that.

You seem nice though.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Oh my god, he's upset about having to carry ID. The Sky is falling.

Not all that simple for a tourist on a beach, trekking or adventure holiday to do.

They won't have a Thai D/L, and their passport could easily get lost, damaged or stolen.

Edited July 30, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Cypress Hill]

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Good post, I make you 100% wrong in my experience. Combination of pension and savings only has to be 800,000 baht. That's not much.

I know a lot of guys after being here 10 years and reading the majority of questions about visas. Seems to me the old guys are here legally and all the visa runners are young men not able to qualify for a retirement extension.

Why would anyone care? The old guys fill an economic niche in Thailand. The only people I've seen jealous of these gentlemen are on ThaiVisa. Immigration has made the retirement visa process easier every year. It only takes me 20 minutes and 1900 and I'm good for another 12 months. Mark my words.

Trust me, with the baby boomers booming Thailand will only see more and more retired folk. Just a matter of time when countries will realize it is less expensive to run nursing homes in Thailand than in the West and those will be paid for by Western governmental money.

You're right, 800K ain't much at all but why are there so many of those service companies that will lend so-called "retirees" the 800k to make their bank accounts qualify for the retirement extension? Do you really think immigration doesn't KNOW about these services? See how many penniless but visa-legal pensioners crawl out of the woodwork crying like pussies when those facilities are routed.

You're supporting my claim of the lifelong Thailand expat being somewhat slow.

The basic truth is, if I am wrong, then Thailand is filled with high quality, competent people. But, we all know this is not that case. Case closed.

A lot of the "senior" expats here built the Country. The building you are probably living in, the factory that makes your food and the car you drive plus all the infrastructure.

It's obvious we move in different circles.

You built the country??? YOU BUILT THE COUNTRY???!!!!

So we know who to blame for the poor drainage in Bangkok; the termite and cockroach infestations in almost every building over 30.

Yeah, great job, grandpa.

[JockPieandBeans]

To the Op.

Mid 20's. Mouth off at the cops, cops issue beating and now you look for sympathy.

You will find it in the dictionary, somewhere between Sh!t and Syphilis.

If you live long enough to double your age, you might just look back on those little words of wisdom and realise just how much of a world of sh!t you could have been in.

Khun Pa.

If you carried out your due diligence on setting up a business in Thailand, surely you knew all about the 4 Thai rule, why are you bitching about it now ?

For the past 18 months I have been researching setting up a business. Its not gonna happen, 49% ownership and the 4 Thai rule blows it out the water.

That's the rules, so I have no complaints.

[geronimo]

As a long termer, I can say I have seen some changes since the coup. Like most things in Thailand, they don't last, so whatever is happening now will not last too long!

[JockPieandBeans]

Oh my god, he's upset about having to carry ID. The Sky is falling.

Not all that simple for a tourist on a beach, trekking or adventure holiday to do.

They won't have a Thai D/L, and their passport could easily get lost, damaged or stolen.

Everyone of those activities are normally conducted with some type of backpack.

They all have pockets, and the range of waterproof bags is truly outstanding.

[tonytigerbkk]

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Good post, I make you 100% wrong in my experience. Combination of pension and savings only has to be 800,000 baht. That's not much.

I know a lot of guys after being here 10 years and reading the majority of questions about visas. Seems to me the old guys are here legally and all the visa runners are young men not able to qualify for a retirement extension.

Why would anyone care? The old guys fill an economic niche in Thailand. The only people I've seen jealous of these gentlemen are on ThaiVisa. Immigration has made the retirement visa process easier every year. It only takes me 20 minutes and 1900 and I'm good for another 12 months. Mark my words.

Trust me, with the baby boomers booming Thailand will only see more and more retired folk. Just a matter of time when countries will realize it is less expensive to run nursing homes in Thailand than in the West and those will be paid for by Western governmental money.

You're right, 800K ain't much at all but why are there so many of those service companies that will lend so-called "retirees" the 800k to make their bank accounts qualify for the retirement extension? Do you really think immigration doesn't KNOW about these services? See how many penniless but visa-legal pensioners crawl out of the woodwork crying like pussies when those facilities are routed.

You're supporting my claim of the lifelong Thailand expat being somewhat slow.

The basic truth is, if I am wrong, then Thailand is filled with high quality, competent people. But, we all know this is not that case. Case closed.

A lot of the "senior" expats here built the Country. The building you are probably living in, the factory that makes your food and the car you drive plus all the infrastructure.

It's obvious we move in different circles.

You built the country??? YOU BUILT THE COUNTRY???!!!!

So we know who to blame for the poor drainage in Bangkok; the termite and cockroach infestations in almost every building over 30.

Yeah, great job, grandpa.

Another one who can't read properly.

Where did ATF say that he built the country?

[mrtoad]

The basic truth is, if I am wrong, then Thailand is filled with high quality, competent people. But, we all know this is not that case. Case closed.

If you get out of the bars or slums, or wherever you are loitering you will find scores of competent, high quality people. I've been working here for a fair few years, and involved in the running of a fairly decent sized organisation with a number of staff both international and Thai. There are plenty of good professional people, who are willing to work hard, develop their skills and contribute to the business and society.

Sadly there are plenty of sad bitter foreigners who feel that the world owes them a living, just purely based on their nationality.

[mrtoad]

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You built the country??? YOU BUILT THE COUNTRY???!!!!

So we know who to blame for the poor drainage in Bangkok; the termite and cockroach infestations in almost every building over 30.

Yeah, great job, grandpa.

A perfect example, of someone who should read properly before posting.

I'm still trying to look at where he posted that "he built the country", get back to me when you can find it as well.