No need to worry says Bangkok Immigration Commander

[chrisinth]

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Clearly, not good enough.

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I'm disappointed with Thaivisa, it just seems they want to bring as many people to their website as possible - spread a rumour here, spread a rumour there, then act like the big hero - wahey we have solved the problem! Genius!

Please stop doing this!

Stop doing what? This is no rumor. This is from the Deputy Commander of Immigration. Above him is the Deputy Superintendent, Superintendent, and finally, the Commissioner General. That makes him pretty high up and I take it pretty personally that you call this a rumor when I am the one who spoke to the Colonel and I am the one who did so before. This isn't tabloid gossip and you can do one of two things, believe it, or not. It makes no difference to me at all.

Any reporter or journalist worth their salt will have 2 or 3 reliable sources on which to base a story.

Not: The official story today from this guy is... Tomorrow; The official story today from this guy is... etc.

How about talking to several officials on the same day about the same subject?

Flimsy reporting...

You're talking out the wrong orifice. Believe me when I tell you that you do not know what you're talking about with regards to what I personally have said publicly. Everything I've said has been verified by between 2-5 people.

And please spare me the childish insults.

There was no insult, only truth.

Get something straight pal. I don't work for you. I don't work for ThaiVisa. I don't work for immigration. I am beholden to no one. I used to be a photojournalist, now I'm not. If people on this site or any other want to bitch, moan, whine, cry, complain, whimper, whinge, whatever, go right ahead.

Understand something else—the information I have given has been given to me by multiple people or spoken about in meeting and conversations with multiple people. I have only reported what has been told to me by these individuals. I did not report on Hua Hin or anything other than what is shown below.

So far I've given the below information as facts and the owner of Thai Visa then got this information from me, and then confirmed it with immigration. I have been trying to help other expats. If you don't like it, believe me, I'll get over it.

1. Visa Exemption Extensions go from 7 days to 30 days on August 29.
2. There is no lifetime ban for any length of overstay.

3. Carrying a passport at all times is requested but is not mandatory. Having the ability to produce the passport is also mandatory. None of this is new, however, it is supposed to be more strictly enforced.

4. The fine for not carrying a passport is not 20,000, it is 2,000.
5. There are numerous changes coming related to the ED Visa.

If you want to give me a hard time about the above, go right ahead.

Scott, I for one appreciate the work you are doing with spreading the word. I also understand what you say about change, it doesn't flatten out overnight. I saw a post earlier in this thread by George that TV are starting a topic tomorrow addressing the TM28/TM30 issue, looking forward to it.

One question though, and please, this isn't criticism, about your list of reports above. Are the points all still valid as item 4 conflicts badly with your item 3?

Carry on the good work.

[KuGee]

As I have surmised there would be brains among the brainless in the police force. Immigration Deputy Commander Vorawat stands out tall from the mass. For sure his superior the Commander is like-minded to let his deputy make this most welcome statement. Bravo to both of them!

[IAMSOBAD]

Too much rocking the boat and it will sink. Leave it alone and let the dust settle.

[ace]

Really? Perhaps he should tell the original source:"We have asked the Interior Ministry to approve harsher punishment," Immigration Division spokesman Colonel Worawat Amornwiwat said.

The problem and it is a huge problem is that Thai officials are coming out with statements that basically say if you don't have a passport with you we may, or may not IMPRISON you. If you have a valid tourist visa we may or may NOT let you in the country.

One cannot logically operate in such an environment and people who are not wanted criminals or sex tourists will simply go elsewhere myself included. Anyone want a condo?........

[JDGRUEN]

Scott.. Please dont confuse frustration with immigration's inconsistency, and poor communication.. With shooting the messenger.

If Thailand wants to transition to an 'obey the rules' society.. then having clear, precisely defined rules, that are the same everywhere, for people to obey, is part of it.

First things first....people have choices in how they respond to immigration's laws. They can follow the law or they can go to jail or be deported. All this, "They should do this, they should do that, why don't they do this, why don't they do that," is counterproductive.

Governments, or in this case, immigration, doesn't completely morph into a tidy, well-run organization over night. As I said a couple of weeks ago, give it a few months, even a year, and I think there will be substantial changes made.

And if people want to follow the law the should have a better rendition of that policy than someone saying So the commander sez to me, he sez ...

and your saying well that's all you're gonna get for now doesn't change anything. I'm just glad I live in the sticks of Isaan where the police maybe don't even know there's been a change in policy.

Says who? You? That's gonna get you real far now, don't ya think?

You do what you want pal. I'm trying to help foreigners.

"Foreigners do not have to carry their passports with them everywhere," said the Deputy Commander. Whether it's on ThaiVisa, YouTube, or in the Phuket Gazette make no difference. If he said it, he said it. If you don't want to believe it, no problem, but what are you wasting everyone's time griping about it for?

Because the word 'Deputy' makes it mostly meaningless .. because he is out ranked in Thai Immigration and by the Thai Army -- that's why

Edited July 31, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[ScottMallon]

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Clearly, not good enough.

Any reporter or journalist worth their salt will have 2 or 3 reliable sources on which to base a story.

Not: The official story today from this guy is... Tomorrow; The official story today from this guy is... etc.

How about talking to several officials on the same day about the same subject?

Flimsy reporting...

You're talking out the wrong orifice. Believe me when I tell you that you do not know what you're talking about with regards to what I personally have said publicly. Everything I've said has been verified by between 2-5 people.

And please spare me the childish insults.

There was no insult, only truth.

Get something straight pal. I don't work for you. I don't work for ThaiVisa. I don't work for immigration. I am beholden to no one. I used to be a photojournalist, now I'm not. If people on this site or any other want to bitch, moan, whine, cry, complain, whimper, whinge, whatever, go right ahead.

Understand something else—the information I have given has been given to me by multiple people or spoken about in meeting and conversations with multiple people. I have only reported what has been told to me by these individuals. I did not report on Hua Hin or anything other than what is shown below.

So far I've given the below information as facts and the owner of Thai Visa then got this information from me, and then confirmed it with immigration. I have been trying to help other expats. If you don't like it, believe me, I'll get over it.

1. Visa Exemption Extensions go from 7 days to 30 days on August 29.

2. There is no lifetime ban for any length of overstay.

3. Carrying a passport at all times is requested but is not mandatory. Having the ability to produce the passport is also mandatory. None of this is new, however, it is supposed to be more strictly enforced.

4. The fine for not carrying a passport is not 20,000, it is 2,000.

5. There are numerous changes coming related to the ED Visa.

If you want to give me a hard time about the above, go right ahead.

Scott, I for one appreciate the work you are doing with spreading the word. I also understand what you say about change, it doesn't flatten out overnight. I saw a post earlier in this thread by George that TV are starting a topic tomorrow addressing the TM28/TM30 issue, looking forward to it.

One question though, and please, this isn't criticism, about your list of reports above. Are the points all still valid as item 4 conflicts badly with your item 3?

Carry on the good work.

First of all, what I was told is that foreigners are not going to be arbitrarily stopped to check their passports. They must be the subject of an investigation, incident, etc. If you are walking on the beach, you're not going to be told, "Show me your passport or you pay 2000 baht."

If you are carrying a copy of your passport and produce your passport, the officer is unlikely to fine the person. However, if they cannot produce the passport, then they'll be fined.

[BudRight]

I'd like to dispel the notion that our opinions do not matter. That criticizing an immigration policy, law or any other government edict is wrong.

It's an insult to human dignity that the victim of a policy should remain quiet while they are hurt. The condemnation of their protests is sadistic. To act as if it is fair or consistent is doublethink. Pointing out the apathy of the abuser is a critique of them, not the victim. To insist that a person flee their home due to oppression, regardless of their legal status, is to condemn the plight of refugees worldwide and justify any tyranny in the name of law. The exclusion of long term residents of a country, legally and socially is a condemnation of that country and not of the residents.

All people in Thailand, not just from Thailand have rights, dignity and humanity. The denial of this is a shame upon Thailand. It must stop.

It may be that nothing will change for our protests. But if we are silent then surely nothing will.

Edited July 31, 2014 by BudRight

[ScottMallon]

Scott, I for one appreciate the work you are doing with spreading the word. I also understand what you say about change, it doesn't flatten out overnight. I saw a post earlier in this thread by George that TV are starting a topic tomorrow addressing the TM28/TM30 issue, looking forward to it.

One question though, and please, this isn't criticism, about your list of reports above. Are the points all still valid as item 4 conflicts badly with your item 3?

Carry on the good work.

What I was told is that foreigners are not going to be arbitrarily stopped to check their passports. They must be the subject of an investigation, incident, etc. If you are walking on the beach, you're not going to be told, "Show me your passport or you pay 2000 baht."

If you are carrying a copy of your passport and produce your passport, the officer is unlikely to fine the person. However, if they cannot produce the passport, then they'll be fined.

[dumpling]

Silence from all the neigh sayers? I guess they must have fallen off their high horses! Great a reasonible comment with a practical guide.out and about on the daily routine a copy will be fine if traveling more of a distance and planning to stay some where pack the passport, back to the normal procedure.

[ScottMallon]

Really? Perhaps he should tell the original source:"We have asked the Interior Ministry to approve harsher punishment," Immigration Division spokesman Colonel Worawat Amornwiwat said.

The problem and it is a huge problem is that Thai officials are coming out with statements that basically say if you don't have a passport with you we may, or may not IMPRISON you. If you have a valid tourist visa we may or may NOT let you in the country.

One cannot logically operate in such an environment and people who are not wanted criminals or sex tourists will simply go elsewhere myself included. Anyone want a condo?........

Let's be clear about something. I didn't do the Thai Visa write up, I made a video.

The law is and has been for many years that you are required to carry your passport on your person. A copy will suffice, however, if requested, you need to have someone bring you the passport.

What you wrote is funny.

"One cannot logically operate in such an environment and people who are not wanted criminals or sex tourists will simply go elsewhere myself included. Anyone want a condo?........"

I'm neither a wanted criminal or a sex tourist and I have very few problems living here. If I do, it's nothing a little sleep or a three-day weekend outside of the country won't cure. I don't care one way or the other. If they want me to carry my passport, no problem. If a copy will cut it, fine. If I'm not sure which one to follow, I'll carry the passport.

[ScottMallon]

I'd like to dispel the notion that our opinions do not matter. That criticizing an immigration policy, law or any other government is wrong.

It's an insult to human dignity that the victim of a policy should remain quiet while they are hurt. The condemnation of their protests is sadistic. To act as if it is fair or consistent is doublethink. Pointing out the apathy of the abuser is a critique of them, not the victim. To insist that a person flee their home due to oppression, regardless of their legal status, is to condemn the plight of refugees worldwide and justify any tyranny in the name of law. The exclusion of long term residents of a country, legally and socially is a condemnation of that country and not of the residents.

All people in Thailand, not just from Thailand have rights, dignity and humanity. The denial of this is a shame upon Thailand. If you would deny this freedom and dignity to another, cheer while another is hurt or wave your finger at the victim then you are something much worse than a coward.

Oh the lack of humanity! Do you think you could be more melodramatic?

[lemonjelly]

Yesterday people were posting it was a reasonable request,

and it's always been the law,

so if you don't like it leave.

Now Deputy Commander Voravat,

​is fortunately confirming what we were being slammed about discussing just yesterday.

“Making all foreigners in Thailand carry their original passports with them would be very difficult.”

The 'Thailand- Love it or Leave it' gang never forego an opportunity to 'discipline' folks who dare to question something here

I dare question ajarnmarc's mauling of the English language.

[evadgib]

This is the second time in just a few months that online scaremongering has proved to be unfounded; the earlier being the old "THB 800k each" that proved equally false while peddled as fact re retirement extensions involving foreign spouse dependants. Can I suggest that a little due diligence be applied from on high before going for the hat trick?

Edited July 31, 2014 by evadgib

[JDGRUEN]

Scott, I for one appreciate the work you are doing with spreading the word. I also understand what you say about change, it doesn't flatten out overnight. I saw a post earlier in this thread by George that TV are starting a topic tomorrow addressing the TM28/TM30 issue, looking forward to it.

One question though, and please, this isn't criticism, about your list of reports above. Are the points all still valid as item 4 conflicts badly with your item 3?

Carry on the good work.

What I was told is that foreigners are not going to be arbitrarily stopped to check their passports. They must be the subject of an investigation, incident, etc. If you are walking on the beach, you're not going to be told, "Show me your passport or you pay 2000 baht."

If you are carrying a copy of your passport and produce your passport, the officer is unlikely to fine the person. However, if they cannot produce the passport, then they'll be fined.

"Told" is the operant word. Unless and until Thailand Immigration (with the sign off of the Thai Army) says in writing and signed by the most senior of commanders .. it is NOT POLICY - not the official policy of Thailand - it is nothing more than an opinion of a Deputy Commander... stated - not put in writing on Thai Immigration letterhead and SIGNED by the most senior of officials ...

Edited July 31, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[nick02]

ahhhhhhhhhhh better ...

[ScottMallon]

Scott, I for one appreciate the work you are doing with spreading the word. I also understand what you say about change, it doesn't flatten out overnight. I saw a post earlier in this thread by George that TV are starting a topic tomorrow addressing the TM28/TM30 issue, looking forward to it.

One question though, and please, this isn't criticism, about your list of reports above. Are the points all still valid as item 4 conflicts badly with your item 3?

Carry on the good work.

What I was told is that foreigners are not going to be arbitrarily stopped to check their passports. They must be the subject of an investigation, incident, etc. If you are walking on the beach, you're not going to be told, "Show me your passport or you pay 2000 baht."

If you are carrying a copy of your passport and produce your passport, the officer is unlikely to fine the person. However, if they cannot produce the passport, then they'll be fined.

"Told" is the operant word. Unless and until Thailand Immigration (with the sign off of the Thai Army) says in writing and signed by the most senior of commanders .. it is NOT POLICY - not the official policy of Thailand - it is nothing more than an opinion of a Deputy Commander... stated - not put in writing on Thai Immigration letterhead and SIGNED bye the most senior of officials ...

The visa exempt extensions have been sent for approval by the MOI. Hopefully that meets you're strict guidelines.

The only thing that comes to mind in this tit-for-tat banter is chowder. What a high ranking immigration official states, whether followed through with or not, is important and worth repeating for others. What you think means nothing.

No lifetime ban on overstays - submitted.

Carrying a passport at all times - been in effect for years.

As I stated previous, "The Commissioner has very concrete plans for the ED Visa. We are aware that the ED Visa is another loophole and we hope to get to this as soon as possible."

[ScottMallon]

Because the word 'Deputy' makes it mostly meaningless .. because he is out ranked in Thai Immigration and by the Thai Army -- that's why

I'd love to hear you say this to him.

What you conveniently continue to omit is that I have said THIS INFORMATION IS COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE COMMISSIONER. The head of immigration.

What's next from you? Do you need to hear General Prayuth make a statement on immigration policies before becoming a believer? Like I said, believe what you want...obviously this issue is quite important to you.

Edited July 31, 2014 by ScottMallon

[wernerkl]

so that´s where all this bullshit me and my friends have been talking about for some evenings, a rightwinges newspaper called the n. i was wondering why my favoured one (in th - bkkp) would not mention anything what i was reading about on tv. greetings from the yellow cast!

[Shaunduhpostman]

There were similar scare stories a number of years ago about people having problems in Bangkok, mostly Sukhumvit area, I think, problems with being stopped and asked to produce actual passports and I have carried mine in an inner pants pocket attached to my belt ever since. I decided that, that way, there is little chance my passport would fall out or be seen by anyone who wants to steal it, so it is a bit better than just carrying it around loose in my regular pants pockets and better than having a sweat soaked soggy photocopy flapping around to try and bargain my way out of smoking a ciggie in public or what have you. The stories put me right off not carrying my passport and were to the effect that the cops would not allow people to go back to their rooms to get their passports, were not accepting photocopies and that they were hauling random foreigners off the streets in Bangkok and in some cases were even going so far as to accuse people of trying to forge a passport by having shown the cops color photocopies of passport pages. Even so, I still don't think it is a very good idea to carry your passport around, given that they fetch 10,000 dollars on the black market, so to mugger or thief they'd be able to probably get a thou or two, so essentially that is what they are asking that we run around everywhere with 1-2,000 dollars cash in our pockets. But I also don't want to have anything even remotely like the above mentioned problems with the police, so you takes your choice, as they say.

Also, I have learned the hard way that when Thais say "Don't worry," you had best start to worry or continue to worry if you were already. We know that the general culture here is such that people are slow to acknowledge trouble before it starts, so really, "Don't worry," is an acknowledgement that there is a problem, so if a Thai is acknowledging tha there is a problem, you know there really is a problem. The meaning of the expression often doesn't mean there is no longer anything to worry about either, as is often the case when it used by other nationalities. It usually really means, "Yes, you have a problem, but stop worrying, it won't make the problem go away, so what is the point of having any concern," or "don't do that, because I don't like to look at people who look worried, it bugs me, so please stop. I don't like thinking I may have to do something to go out of my way to allay the situation, so stop worrying because you are imposing on me and my right to live a carefree life." Or in this case, "Please stop deluging immigration with phone calls because you are worried. We are not prepared to change anything anytime soon, so enough." It doesn't mean there is nothing to actually worry about. It never means anything has been done to correct a worrisome situation, that's your problem, so please do not make it my problem with all of you're worrying."

From the man's statement, the same old problem still exists that makes people feel they ought to carry their passports. The operative word in the Chief's statement is "suspect." That is, as he says, if the police even suspect you are involved in criminal activity, you will be asked to produce your passport and if you cannot immediately do so, you may get into a hassle, and that is not our problem so stop bugging us with your worry about that. What the Chief says still allows for the possibility that the police can make up anything they like and say you are suspect and that you also didn't have an original copy of your passport on you if they want to collect that 2000 baht fine or simply want to have a bit of sport and fun with you or what have you. There's nothing that has been cleared up or changed at all. It was nice of him to acknowledge that there is a problem, but I for one will continue to carry my passport as I have for the last 7-8 years it's not really a big deal once you get used to it. Tho, it is also almost incriminating to carry your passport. Do you have some problem that you think you might have to show the police your passport? People who are not do anything wrong can simply show a photcopy, so what's this, Why were you carrying an orginal copy around then? You have to laugh.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Shaunduhpostman

[Franky Bear]

Don't know why people can't just say, "thank you" to Scott and TV?

[MJCM]

Don't know why people can't just say, "thank you" to Scott and TV?

Agreed, but I think it's because they love to bicker

[ace]

.... If they want me to carry my passport, no problem. If a copy will cut it, fine. If I'm not sure which one to follow, I'll carry the passport.

Precisely my point.

But seriousley, thanks for the info i guess it's "as you were" again.

[JDGRUEN]

Because the word 'Deputy' makes it mostly meaningless .. because he is out ranked in Thai Immigration and by the Thai Army -- that's why

I'd love to hear you say this to him.

What you conveniently continue to omit is that I have said THIS INFORMATION IS COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE COMMISSIONER. The head of immigration.

What's next from you? Do you need to hear General Prayuth make a statement on immigration policies before becoming a believer? Like I said, believe what you want...obviously this issue is quite important to you.

What's next from you? Do you need to hear General Prayuth make a statement on immigration policies before becoming a believer?

Actually - Yes! Not only that - but typed on Thai Immigration Letterhead and signed ... And you do recall that the Thai Army is charge of everything? ...

Edited July 31, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[evadgib]

Don't know why people can't just say, "thank you" to Scott and TV?

I doubt if Orson Welles received any for his "War of the Worlds" either; I'm sure neither did it deliberately but the outcome was eerily similar

Edited July 31, 2014 by evadgib

[philw]

Overall, a nice bit of scaremongering and fear inflation to increase ratings and views.

Quite clever.

To those who insist on carrying their passport everywhere they go, I hope they don't lose it.

[JesseFrank]

Pin it to the top! close all other topics immediately.

+1

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

Now wait a second. This is the second "clarification"in as many days, saying that the announcement from the previous day was incorrect.

Can't wait for the clarification from tomorrow.

Edited July 31, 2014 by JesseFrank

[MJCM]

^ The one from tmrw will be about reporting (I hope)

[Jip99]

Because the word 'Deputy' makes it mostly meaningless .. because he is out ranked in Thai Immigration and by the Thai Army -- that's why

I'd love to hear you say this to him.

What you conveniently continue to omit is that I have said THIS INFORMATION IS COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE COMMISSIONER. The head of immigration.

What's next from you? Do you need to hear General Prayuth make a statement on immigration policies before becoming a believer? Like I said, believe what you want...obviously this issue is quite important to you.

Nobody gives a flying fart what JDGRUEN thinks.

I DO give a flying fart about what any senior official from immigration says.

In this case, I welcome what he said and thank the Immigration Dept for clarifying the position so clearly.

i will carry on not panicking.

[iphad]

I'm disappointed with Thaivisa, it just seems they want to bring as many people to their website as possible - spread a rumour here, spread a rumour there, then act like the big hero - wahey we have solved the problem! Genius!

Please stop doing this!

hmmm I guess not everyone could be happy...

I would never have thought it was Thaivisa's fault...since I get the impression they are just posting news that they find.

But since I knew the answer before Thaivisa contacted the Immigration Commander I wasn't going crazy,packing my bags to leave or posting ridiculous "sky is falling" theories.

If anything I think Thaivisa should be thanked for getting an answer that obviously was affecting many farang...making them anxious & concerned.

[JesseFrank]

Deputy Commander Voravat also said that for expats living here, a Thai driving license or photocopy of your passport can be used as a form of identification.

However, if Immigration Police suspect an individual to be overstaying in Thailand or being involved in illegal activity, then the individual would be required to produce their original passport promptly.

Illegal activity can be a wide range. Normally when they ask you for your passport they will suspect you of illegal activity. So yes you should have your passport on you all the time as stated in the original report.

“Making all foreigners in Thailand carry their original passports with them would be very difficult.”

“It’s about being reasonable and using common sense”

“But if we think a foreigner is involved in illegal activity then we will of course need to see their original passport, this is normal”, said Deputy Commander Voravat.

We all know what the understanding of common sense is in Thailand, isn't it ? So I actually see not a difference with the original report, only they try to sweeten it a little to the outside world.