The Thai Schooling system - just how bad is it?

[HooHaa]

"Probably the only point you and I will agree on!"

Yeah I can sleep tonight that I have your unqualified approval.

My post was very light hearted and I thought it was quite clear that I was being not so serious.

We are disagreeing on the level of education an English teacher should have and we won't come to consensus.

That's ok, and I was just poking fun at the idea that we won't agree.

I hope your response wasn't meant to be as snotty as it comes across.

Point is your child should not require an "english teacher" but rather a qualified teacher who teaches in english, whatever the curriculum

if your child requires esl (or remedial lessons in whatever your first language is) you have already failed them.

if you communicate with your child in pidgin or garbage thai they are already well behind the curve and it your own fault.

[Scott]

Please be aware that girls generally read before boys, so it is not all that unusual to find girls who are reading at a higher grade level. This, by the way, is not unique to Thailand, it is a world wide phenomenon.

[duanebigsby]

"Probably the only point you and I will agree on!"

Yeah I can sleep tonight that I have your unqualified approval.

My post was very light hearted and I thought it was quite clear that I was being not so serious.

We are disagreeing on the level of education an English teacher should have and we won't come to consensus.

That's ok, and I was just poking fun at the idea that we won't agree.

I hope your response wasn't meant to be as snotty as it comes across.

Point is your child should not require an "english teacher" but rather a qualified teacher who teaches in english, whatever the curriculum

if your child requires esl (or remedial lessons in whatever your first language is) you have already failed them.

if you communicate with your child in pidgin or garbage thai they are already well behind the curve and it your own fault.

I don't have any children other than the students I teach in a regular Thai school.

They get 3 hours a week in English, so they very much need English teachers.

Completely different to your daughter's scenario.

[bikerlou47]

Bad very very very bad!

[Rhys]

Personally I think that a good school in Thailand compares to a medium school in Australia. An average one here is at the level of a school in one of the poorer suburbs the kind where attendance and interest is not good. I doubt if any school here is better than say the top 20% of Australian government schools.

I think some of the negative comments about Thai schools come from people who as they came from a higher economic status family went to slightly better schools than some of the poorer people who have to put up with lower quality schooling and never have the means to move here. There is a tendency to think all schools are like the best ones at home just as they think here all schools are like the worst.

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/6321/1/Schools_in_Disadvantaged_Areas_Recognising_context_and_raising_quality.pdf

Insightful comment and assessment. what is this perspective called again?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Personally I think that a good school in Thailand compares to a medium school in Australia. An average one here is at the level of a school in one of the poorer suburbs the kind where attendance and interest is not good. I doubt if any school here is better than say the top 20% of Australian government schools.

I think some of the negative comments about Thai schools come from people who as they came from a higher economic status family went to slightly better schools than some of the poorer people who have to put up with lower quality schooling and never have the means to move here. There is a tendency to think all schools are like the best ones at home just as they think here all schools are like the worst.

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/6321/1/Schools_in_Disadvantaged_Areas_Recognising_context_and_raising_quality.pdf

Insightful comment and assessment. what is this perspective called again?

Not all that insightful if you understand Australia has probably the worst schools in the western world.

An incredible number of Australians finish high school practically illiterate.

[JimmyTheMook]

*Reality Check

Thai schools are designed to produce subservient drones.

[harrry]

Personally I think that a good school in Thailand compares to a medium school in Australia. An average one here is at the level of a school in one of the poorer suburbs the kind where attendance and interest is not good. I doubt if any school here is better than say the top 20% of Australian government schools.

I think some of the negative comments about Thai schools come from people who as they came from a higher economic status family went to slightly better schools than some of the poorer people who have to put up with lower quality schooling and never have the means to move here. There is a tendency to think all schools are like the best ones at home just as they think here all schools are like the worst.

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/6321/1/Schools_in_Disadvantaged_Areas_Recognising_context_and_raising_quality.pdf

Insightful comment and assessment. what is this perspective called again?

Not all that insightful if you understand Australia has probably the worst schools in the western world.

An incredible number of Australians finish high school practically illiterate.

The Education Index, published with the UN's Human Development Index in 2008, based on data from 2006, lists Australia as 0.993, amongst the highest in the world, tied for first with Denmark and Finland.^[13]

^{(Wickpaedia.)}

Facts

But you are true not all leave school with a good education in all countries.

[Sirpia]

The Thai Schooling system - just how bad is it?

The conditioning, indoctrination, marching, singing, flag waving makes me think of the Nazi youth.

[gerryBScot]

As a parent with kids at a bilingual school in Thailand and as a teacher in said school I've always had concerns about my kids' experience and what passes as education here.

Bottom line for young children is I believe their home experience will have a much more profound impact on their educational outcomes than any other factor including schooling. If their mums and dads or equivalent are interested in their development and make time for them they are already at an advantage to many kids in the world who are otherwise deprived of quality parental input due to parents necessarily having to generate income. Similarily watching TV and playing computer games is no substitute for creative activities and/ or interaction with other children and or adults. The more reactionary side of me can be heard muttering around my very own home that TVs can be switched off and that there is more appropriate content than wall to wall cartoons.

My five year old kid is a really competent reader in English: I reckon he's as good if not better than equivalent native speaker kids. All I have done is supply a steady stream of age appropriate books. I have never made him read rather just left these books lying around almost like bait and he's picked them up and got into them, and we read together and he reads on his own and I read to him - all good children's books are graphically rich in content. I've also downloaded audiobooks. Take for instance the famous Dr Seuss series of books, all readily available in better bookshops in Bangkok. it's remarkable to think these books were written/produced 50-60 years ago….IMHO they are among the best starter books available for kids and I write this as a Brit notwithstanding the fact these books are decidedly American! I discovered audio recordings of these books and they have really enhanced his enjoyment of the books and added hugely to his understanding. Ideal for the car too.

In terms of actually reading skills I worked with him on phonics, basically getting him to read words by being able to make the sounds the letters or clusters of letters make. I bought some phonics cards from the English Oxford Reading Tree programme, supported by a series of graphic rich books matching the sounds. Forget ABC, teach them the sounds the letters make and worry about the alphabet much later on. I have been mindful not to overdo the phonics at the expense of his actual understanding. There seems little point in being able to read words but not to have any sense of what they mean. Again important to remember these things are all progressive and by no means uniform - my boy, for instance, is not as good at writing as he is at reading.

This approach I believe mitigates against some of the worst aspects of being at a Thai school. I am seriously looking at options for the future and I am pretty clear that the way to go is some sort of secondary schooling based on an international curriculum. Basically international qualifications that will enable them to get into tertiary education anywhere in the world if they so wish and we have the spondoolicks to support them. I may also consider a return to Scotland as there is still funding available to students there for higher education.

It is commonplace these days to talk about the transformation that ICT is heralding in education. I don't doubt that ICT is changing the game, in terms of accessibility to information and speed of communication, but it is not going to altar the core processes involved in the development of our cognitive abilities. Skilful, experienced and knowledgeable teachers will still be critical in this area and the essential social nature of education will not change. There will be changes but I think education in 100 years time will still be comparable to what it is today in the same way today is comparable to 100 years ago.

My tuppence worth on a great topic.

[zeichen]

5 years old and reading not bad. Most kids actually just memorize the stories and read from memory and not specifically from letter recognition.

Can he do that in Thai also? Again be careful though of stressing one language over another or one educational skill like reading over other skills like math or cognitive development.

[HooHaa]

pay for a decent school there are plenty out there

[gerryBScot]

5 years old and reading not bad. Most kids actually just memorize the stories and read from memory and not specifically from letter recognition.

Can he do that in Thai also? Again be careful though of stressing one language over another or one educational skill like reading over other skills like math or cognitive development.

yeah he's a very confident reader in English. The phonics approach seems to give kids the confidence to try to pronounce difficult words. His Thai is lousy as both parents are English speakers and we obviously don't speak Thai at home. This is where we open up a can of worms about the Thai system - the Thai teachers don't appear to want to help him with Thai or take any interest in his obvious shortcomings. That's how it appears in any way to me. I'm hoping that he'll catch up as his confidence grows. He appears to understand Thai well but is really slow and hesitant with reading and writing. Pity really. Also in part why we see beyond Thailand for his longer term education.

[Gumballl]

I'm having major problems with my son at a big international school in Chiang Mai. They failed him last year so when I got back here I tried to see why. Turns out he can't read or write properly yet. He is 13. All the school was interested in is that he must do his homework. I asked how he can do his homework if he can't read?

I get a phone call this morning. I cut his hair last night, short but apparently it's not short enough for them. I had to ask, I never get contacted by the school about the fact he can't read or how he is failing and what can we do about it, no. I get a call about his hair is 1mm too long. Hair police.

No one is interested in helping you help your child. I think he may be dyslexic but I'm no professional. What do I do? In the west the school would give you some help and direction about how to help a struggling child. Here, It's up to you to sort that out for yourself. No school will ever tell you your kid needs help for fear of loss of face for the parents.

Maybe things are different in Thailand, but here in the USA, parents are expected to pay a major role in their child's education. A teacher mainly introduces children to new topics, perhaps demonstrates a few example problems, assigns homework, and then later assesses the children using quizzes/exams.

When a child returns home with material that they worked on at school, along with their homework, it is the parent that should take an interest to ensure that the child understands the material and that they complete their homework.

Your post seems to indicate that you are an absent father. So what is the mother doing? Perhaps you should consider placing your child in a school near where you work/live, that way you can spend time with him each evening.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

5 years old and reading not bad. Most kids actually just memorize the stories and read from memory and not specifically from letter recognition.

Can he do that in Thai also? Again be careful though of stressing one language over another or one educational skill like reading over other skills like math or cognitive development.

yeah he's a very confident reader in English. The phonics approach seems to give kids the confidence to try to pronounce difficult words. His Thai is lousy as both parents are English speakers and we obviously don't speak Thai at home. This is where we open up a can of worms about the Thai system - the Thai teachers don't appear to want to help him with Thai or take any interest in his obvious shortcomings. That's how it appears in any way to me. I'm hoping that he'll catch up as his confidence grows. He appears to understand Thai well but is really slow and hesitant with reading and writing. Pity really. Also in part why we see beyond Thailand for his longer term education.

If you want him to learn Thai, he needs to be in a government school where it's the only language anyone speaks.

He will learn very quickly, within a year he will be as literate as any other Thai child.

Any sort of private school and he will be forever a non Thai speaker/reader/writer.

[Sirpia]

5 years old and reading not bad. Most kids actually just memorize the stories and read from memory and not specifically from letter recognition.

Can he do that in Thai also? Again be careful though of stressing one language over another or one educational skill like reading over other skills like math or cognitive development.

yeah he's a very confident reader in English. The phonics approach seems to give kids the confidence to try to pronounce difficult words. His Thai is lousy as both parents are English speakers and we obviously don't speak Thai at home. This is where we open up a can of worms about the Thai system - the Thai teachers don't appear to want to help him with Thai or take any interest in his obvious shortcomings. That's how it appears in any way to me. I'm hoping that he'll catch up as his confidence grows. He appears to understand Thai well but is really slow and hesitant with reading and writing. Pity really. Also in part why we see beyond Thailand for his longer term education.

Hire a private Thai tutor to come to the house 3+ times a week. Half the time playing, half the time reading/writing.

[Mr Somtam]

School systems provide a number of functions, education is just one. They also exist to teach children how to be a member of a country and community. In our home countries we have similar things, but in Thailand this includes teaching them to respect elders (teachers), to wai properly, to do traditional dance and to sing the national anthem loudly etc.

Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't get too far beyond that.

Yup... Be a good drone, don't ting too mut!

[Sirpia]

People should also consider the option of them doing the iGSCE exams at around 16 yrs of age.

Many Chinese families pull their children out of Thai schools at age 14, spend 2 years studying for the iGSCE exams privately. Not that expensive and available through the British Council and others.

At 16 they sit the iGCSE exams, 5 passes allows them to enter university.

This is the same examinations that students do at International Schools here.

I think it is a very good option for students aged 14-16 or 15-17. Instead of being cooked up in a Thai school (even the good EP ones) with all the restrictive routine, they would study with like minded people at a private center with a loose daily time-table, allowing them free social time/study time or whatever. No uniforms and marching and being shouted at to sit still and be quiet for 9 hours a day. They study at an internation level (Cambridge) and have an international qualification instead of just the Thai M6 Cert.

The scariest part of this is that 5GCSE gets one into university.....

My neighbour asked me how many I did in my day, and then I explained the concept of A Levels.

Yes. This looks like a nice shortcut to university here. But one has to bear in mind that the general level of IGCSE is only around 10th grade. Additonal maths being one exception. So kids can enter university here at 16 years. I would have thought that they would be behind their peers who have studied for 12 years. This assumes everything else being equal, which may not be the case. You can bluff your way through IGCSE's - answers actually have to be written, and a good mark (I think a C - which is about 70%), needs to be obtained). I have one student doing IGCSE's externally in my EP. He does my work as well as study outside. This is not such a bad thing, as I cover the same topics in maths that he does. But after that, I don't see him coping as easily if he got to university having missed a big chunk of advanced maths/science he would need for science/engineering courses.

After the iGSCE, there are also the IB and A Level courses available here. http://aims.co.th/index.html

I met a German exchange student once, was doing one year of M5 in an EP school in Isaan of all places. He said that their work was 2 years behind Germany.

[Bob Landen]

If you have the financial ability, BKK has many fine private schools. If you cannot afford the best, LEAVE. There may be exceptions, but most Thai goverment schools are hopeless "baby-sitting services".

[hugh2121]

Jan 16, kids just back to school after long Christmas and New Year holiday. Today, yet another school holiday, this time for "Teachers Day" or some such nonsense. Soon there will be a holiday for Chinese New Year and another for Song Kran as well as many odd days when they don't feel like working. No wonder so many young Thais leave school apparently uneducated and stupid. They seem to have as many holidays as school days, any excuse for a day off. Don't know why I bother paying fees for a private school sometimes.

[Rhys]

Reading Skills.. for Thai students.. university levels.. except some of the higher performing universities in BKK and elsewhere U...

Graded readers.. level 4-5 works week.. some trouble answering the questions in the back. However oral reading fluency is still word by word...

But heck it is reading in a different language...