Australian couple abandon Down syndrome baby with Thai surrogate mother

[Basil B]

Media reports are saying she was asked to terminate at 7 months

 

 As I read it the law is very clear on abortion:

 

 

Abortion law in Thailand is governed by the provisions of Sections 301-305 of the Thai Penal Code of 13 November 1956. Under the Code, the performance of abortions is generally prohibited. A woman who causes her own abortion or allows any other person to procure her abortion is subject to up to three years’ imprisonment and/or payment of a fine not exceeding 6,000 baht. A person who procures an abortion for a woman with her consent is subject to up to five years’ imprisonment and/or payment of a fine not exceeding 10,000 baht. If this act causes grievous bodily harm to the woman, the penalty is increased to up to seven years’ imprisonment and/or payment of a fine not exceeding 14,000 baht; and if the act causes the woman’s death, the penalty is increased to up to ten years’ imprisonment and payment of a fine not exceeding 20,000 baht. A person who procures an abortion for a woman without her consent is subject to up to seven years’ imprisonment and/or payment of a fine not exceeding 14,000 baht. If the act causes grievous bodily harm, the penalty is increased to one to ten years’ imprisonment and payment of a fine of 2,000 to 20,000 baht. If the act causes the death of the woman, the penalty is increased to five to twenty years’ imprisonment and payment of a fine of 10,000 to 40,000 baht.

 

Nonetheless, the performance of an abortion is legal under the Code if carried out by a medical practitioner and (a) the abortion is necessary for the sake of the woman’s health or ( the woman is pregnant as a result of a criminal offence.

 www.un.org/esa/population/publications/abortion/doc/thailand.doc

 

Article 305 does not allow for imperfections of the child and therefore an abortion would be illegal.  

 

As I see it those who attempted to coerce the mother to have an abortion were conspiring to commit a crime, I hope they can be prosecuted for this, thankfully Thailand has an extradition treaty with Australia.

 

Just for the record, I am not anti abortion but feel this is something that only the mother has the right to request and only after counselling, this is something that can not be reversed and a woman would have to live with the guilt for the rest of her life.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Basil B

[geodesic]

 

Media reports are saying she was asked to terminate at 7 months

 

 As I read it the law is very clear on abortion:

 

 

Abortion law in Thailand is governed by the provisions of Sections 301-305 of the Thai Penal Code of 13 November 1956. Under the Code, the performance of abortions is generally prohibited. A woman who causes her own abortion or allows any other person to procure her abortion is subject to up to three years’ imprisonment and/or payment of a fine not exceeding 6,000 baht. A person who procures an abortion for a woman with her consent is subject to up to five years’ imprisonment and/or payment of a fine not exceeding 10,000 baht. If this act causes grievous bodily harm to the woman, the penalty is increased to up to seven years’ imprisonment and/or payment of a fine not exceeding 14,000 baht; and if the act causes the woman’s death, the penalty is increased to up to ten years’ imprisonment and payment of a fine not exceeding 20,000 baht. A person who procures an abortion for a woman without her consent is subject to up to seven years’ imprisonment and/or payment of a fine not exceeding 14,000 baht. If the act causes grievous bodily harm, the penalty is increased to one to ten years’ imprisonment and payment of a fine of 2,000 to 20,000 baht. If the act causes the death of the woman, the penalty is increased to five to twenty years’ imprisonment and payment of a fine of 10,000 to 40,000 baht.

 

Nonetheless, the performance of an abortion is legal under the Code if carried out by a medical practitioner and (a) the abortion is necessary for the sake of the woman’s health or ( the woman is pregnant as a result of a criminal offence.

 www.un.org/esa/population/publications/abortion/doc/thailand.doc

 

Article 305 does not allow for imperfections of the child and therefore an abortion would be illegal.  

 

As I see it those who attempted to coerce the mother to have an abortion were conspiring to commit a crime, I hope they can be prosecuted for this, thankfully Thailand has an extradition treaty with Australia.

 

Just for the record, I am not anti abortion but feel this is something that only the mother has the right to request and only after counselling, this is something that can not be reversed and a woman would have to live with the guilt for the rest of her life.

 

You are barking up the wrong tree.

 

Carriage of twins would certainly justify abortion under the clause as being necessary for the woman's health. The number of complications during pregnancy goes up by an order of magnitude vs. a single baby. Gestational diabetes can be a life threatening condition. Nobody would question a doctor who said that there was a significant threat to the mother's health due to a multiple pregnancy.

 

I have no love for the couple in Australia, but what you describe could not be considered a crime by any rational, thinking judge in a court of law. You need to find another approach if you want to prosecute them. For the record, I AM anti abortion, and very much pro gestational surrogacy. Basically, anything that can bring children into this world in the care of a loving family.

 

They key concept here being "loving family". I am not at all convinced the couple in Australia are deserving of that title, and I sincerely hope they get a visit by Australian social services to confirm their fitness as parents.

[geodesic]

At the end of the several days, the healthiest embryo is selected and implanted in the surrogate mother for gestation, but only one.

There should be no way that two embryos would be implanted, unless the clinic is planning to sell the second baby, or is grossly incompetent. This should never have happened.

 

 

Not in Thailand. Most of the clinics in Thailand use an older procedure that implants 3 two day embryos. Statistically this works out to have the same chance of conception as the more modern concept of implanting a single, 5 day embryo with assisted hatching, and is substantially less costly.

 

Please do more research on the history of IVF before you start throwing around acusations like this. I am not a fan of greedy Thai clinics either, but they can hardly be accused of gross incompetence by following a procedure that has been in use for well over 2 decades. At most, you could accuse them of being slightly behind the times in terms of accepted practices, but if you want to blame someone for being dangerous with their procedures, you should direct your ire to the USA. Octomom would never happen in Thailand.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thai surrogate mom forgives couple who left behind twin with Down syndrome

"I've never felt angry at them or hated them. I'm always willing to forgive them," Pattaramon told The Associated Press. "I want to see that they love the baby girl as much as my family loves Gammy. I want her to be well taken care of."

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/03/thai-surrogate-mother-says-not-angry-with-australian-couple-who-left-unhealthy/

Edited August 3, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[slipperylobster]

 

The Australian couple shall now hide behind anonymity laws designed to protect the identity of children in cases of high news interest.

 

 

They need to be named, and to be bought before a court in order to be forced to accept the full consequences of the choices they made. 

Why do they need to be named?

 It appears each side got what they wanted. Australian Parents got a new child, the surrogate got her money, and seems happy with the child left behind. What is the issue?

 

 

The issue is that the child left behind has urgent medical needs. The surrogate mother had entered a contractual agreement to carry the fetus of that child (and the twin). The child was created through a willing act of the Mother egg donar and father sperm donar, with medical supervision. The donating parents have no more right to abandon responsibility than if the female donar had given birth herself.  You just do not walk away from that....

 

Sure, the surrogate mother is happy to keep the baby, but she needs help...obviously.

[chooka]

 

Australian couple accused of abandoning baby Gammy deny claims
 

The Australian couple accused of abandoning baby Gammy have said they are shocked by the claims.

 

9NEWS has spoken with the couple, who said that while they have a baby daughter of a similar age to Gammy, they are adamant she does not have a twin brother.

They admitted using a Thai surrogate, describing the experience as ‘traumatising’.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/04/07/34/australian-couple-accused-of-abandoning-baby-gammy-deny-claims#H94c9FOXtlDDQs7W.99

 

 

Edited August 3, 2014 by chooka

[tigermonkey]

 

At the end of the several days, the healthiest embryo is selected and implanted in the surrogate mother for gestation, but only one.

There should be no way that two embryos would be implanted, unless the clinic is planning to sell the second baby, or is grossly incompetent. This should never have happened.

 

 

Not in Thailand. Most of the clinics in Thailand use an older procedure that implants 3 two day embryos. Statistically this works out to have the same chance of conception as the more modern concept of implanting a single, 5 day embryo with assisted hatching, and is substantially less costly.

 

Please do more research on the history of IVF before you start throwing around acusations like this. I am not a fan of greedy Thai clinics either, but they can hardly be accused of gross incompetence by following a procedure that has been in use for well over 2 decades. At most, you could accuse them of being slightly behind the times in terms of accepted practices, but if you want to blame someone for being dangerous with their procedures, you should direct your ire to the USA. Octomom would never happen in Thailand.

 

I have no need to do more research thank you - while not within my field of specialty, I have quite adequate knowledge of IVF procedures and history. If as you say, they are using the "older procedures" and implanting 3 2-day embryos, would they also not be doing selective reduction at 10 - 12 weeks, after nuchal translucency test, etc. to reduce the number to only one embryo? If this was done, why are there still 2 embryos at 4 months ? If they were waiting until post amniocentesis to do the selective reduction, they should have  a contract in place with the surrogate to this effect. My point still stands.

Edited August 4, 2014 by tigermonkey

[advancebooking]

no doubt all the relatives will come running asking for their share of the cash

[Robroona]

no doubt all the relatives will come running asking for their share of the cash

Fact or opinion? Or just felt the need to share your stupidity with us all this morning?

[samran]

 

Australian couple accused of abandoning baby Gammy deny claims
 

The Australian couple accused of abandoning baby Gammy have said they are shocked by the claims.
 
9NEWS has spoken with the couple, who said that while they have a baby daughter of a similar age to Gammy, they are adamant she does not have a twin brother.
They admitted using a Thai surrogate, describing the experience as ‘traumatising’.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/04/07/34/australian-couple-accused-of-abandoning-baby-gammy-deny-claims#H94c9FOXtlDDQs7W.99
 

 

Rather than give quotes to channel 9, if they were on the up and up they would have been on the first plane back to Bangkok to get custody of their child.


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[mordicae schnable]

prediction:  the parents will do a paid interview with channel 9 australia, either a current affair  or sixty minutes, 100 000 dollars  plus  .................m sneerson schnable

[kevc]

Wonder what their daughter will think in years to come when she finds out they wanted to terminate her along with her brother.

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[chooka]

Wonder what their daughter will think in years to come when she finds out they wanted to terminate her along with her brother.

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The so called father in Australia was just cultivating his next victim/s

 

Bloody rockspider and little Gammy is the lucky one.

 

Man at centre of Thai surrogacy scandal has conviction for indecently dealing with a child

 

New information has come to light tonight on the couple at the centre of the baby Gammy surrogacy scandal.

 

It has been confirmed that the husband has a criminal history: a conviction for indecently dealing with a child.

 

The man in question has a conviction for indecently dealing with a child under the age of 13.

He was found guilty and jailed in 1998.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/08/04/20/53/baby-gammy-dad-has-sex-convictions#DuPlpE1C5wrRj1VH.99

[LuckyLew]

Just read that gammy has a twin sister who was born healthy

The Australian couple have taken her back to Australia

IMO these Australians are pigs and rotten to the core and do not deserve to be parents

God made it impossible for them to conceive naturally .....that was the right call

 

[dagobert]

HOLD IT for a second before everyone jumps on the band wagon,
Everyone seems to be throwing this "THESE AUSTRALIANS" around
as it stands we know the mother is Asian the father has not been identifide
yet. What if in the next few weeks we discover that the two people are infact
Thai immigrants then will you be saying "Oh these Thais" "NO" so everybody
sit back and await the outcome.
That being said the little boy Gammy and his sister will be looked after better
than any of us ever were, the money will not be squanderd away it will be held
in trust for Gammys benafit,
If any laws have been broken this too will come out and be delt with in
Thailand or Australia legaly

[chooka]

HOLD IT for a second before everyone jumps on the band wagon,
Everyone seems to be throwing this "THESE AUSTRALIANS" around
as it stands we know the mother is Asian the father has not been identifide
yet. What if in the next few weeks we discover that the two people are infact
Thai immigrants then will you be saying "Oh these Thais" "NO" so everybody
sit back and await the outcome.
That being said the little boy Gammy and his sister will be looked after better
than any of us ever were, the money will not be squanderd away it will be held
in trust for Gammys benafit,
If any laws have been broken this too will come out and be delt with in
Thailand or Australia legaly

They are both in the 50's the father is Caucasian and the mother thai/Australian.  They father is a rockspider/pedophile who has served prison time for tampering with kids.  Can't get much lower or scummier than that.

[samran]

HOLD IT for a second before everyone jumps on the band wagon,
Everyone seems to be throwing this "THESE AUSTRALIANS" around
as it stands we know the mother is Asian the father has not been identifide
yet. What if in the next few weeks we discover that the two people are infact
Thai immigrants then will you be saying "Oh these Thais" "NO" so everybody
sit back and await the outcome.
That being said the little boy Gammy and his sister will be looked after better
than any of us ever were, the money will not be squanderd away it will be held
in trust for Gammys benafit,
If any laws have been broken this too will come out and be delt with in
Thailand or Australia legaly

Who cares what colour the parents are? If they are Australians they are Australians. The kid should be given citizenship and have access to Medicare so he can have his operations in OZ, which is what would have happened if his parents weren't absolute low lives.


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[dagobert]

Gammy is where he should be with his mother and he is !
his sister is in Australia and will end up a foster child with all this legal s---t
that will now take place.
Gammy is set fine and will be looked after, now think of the little girl who is
in a very bad position now.

[samran]

Gammy is where he should be with his mother and he is !
his sister is in Australia and will end up a foster child with all this legal s---t
that will now take place.
Gammy is set fine and will be looked after, now think of the little girl who is
in a very bad position now.

I don't really disagree. Thing is though, Gammy should have access to Australian citizenship and all it has to offer him, even if for the most part he is better off being in Thailand.


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[chooka]

Gammy is where he should be with his mother and he is !
his sister is in Australia and will end up a foster child with all this legal s---t
that will now take place.
Gammy is set fine and will be looked after, now think of the little girl who is
in a very bad position now.

The Australian parents should lose custody of the daughter.  Leaving a child in the hands of a filthy pedophile is not right.

[dagobert]

Samran. Gammy is better of with his mother !
Or should he be granted Australian Citizenship and be a foster child ?
as you stated earlyer his Australian biological parents are no good "and i agree"
let the law of two countrys decide the best thing for both the children,
for the benafit of the kids.
This is a very emotional thing for everybody "BUT" its all about the kids
PEACE MAN and RELAX...

[mexxx]

a previous post mentions villians.

 

there are reports circulating that the so called father has been convicted for 'indecently dealing with a child under 13' & served time in a australian gaol.

 

there are also reports that thai health authorities are saying that is unlawful to pay for surrogacy in the kingdom & that the surrogate mother who carries the baby for the maternal parents must be related to them.

Edited August 5, 2014 by mexxx

[dagobert]

CHOOKA relax man its in the hands of two very civilized and law abiding countrys
in the end it will all be good "For the two kids" Australia and the Thai Junta.
It could not be any better!!!

[dagobert]

a previous post mentions villians.
 
there are reports circulating that the so called father has been convicted for 'indecently dealing with a child under 13' & served time in a australian gaol.
 
there are also reports that thai health authorities are saying that is unlawful to pay for surrogacy in the kingdom & that the surrogate mother who carries the baby for the maternal parents must be related to them.

legaly binding contract is hardly unlawful

[AGareth2]

seems there is some dispute

shouldn't a DNA test be done to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the Australian is the father and then take it from there

Not saying he isn't but given the international reaction shouldn't we be sure before we condemn?

[daveAustin]

I'd wait for the full story before everyone jumps the gun. It's quite possible the lady this end is cheating somewhere. It happens. Edited August 5, 2014 by daveAustin

[samran]

Samran. Gammy is better of with his mother !
Or should he be granted Australian Citizenship and be a foster child ?
as you stated earlyer his Australian biological parents are no good "and i agree"
let the law of two countrys decide the best thing for both the children,
for the benafit of the kids.
This is a very emotional thing for everybody "BUT" its all about the kids
PEACE MAN and RELAX...

I am relaxed. I am just making the small point that the father is an Australian citizen. By rights Gammy is then entitled to Australian citizenship.

Just because he then has Australian citizenship doesn't mean he can't stay here in Thailand with his birth mum, nor does it mean he goes into foster care in Australia.

What it does mean though, that as an Australian citizen he has access to the best medical care in the world should he need it.


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[chooka]

Seems the low life father hasn't just been convicted for tampering on just one occasion.  It appears he is a career pedophile.  The Dept Human Svc's (DHS) should immeadiately remove the twin sister from harms way.   This piece of filth should not be anywhere near children and definitely should be able to use surrogate to cultivate fresh meat for him to feed off.

 

 

Father in Gammy case has string of child sex convictions

 

A Western Australian man believed to be the biological father of abandoned baby Gammy has been convicted of child sex offences on multiple occasions, 9NEWS can reveal.

The man, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, went to jail for three years in the late 90s on two child sex offences against two girls under the age of 10.

He was later convicted of indecent dealings with a child under the age of 13.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/08/05/13/43/gammy-case-biological-father-string-of-child-sex-offences#IaYT3YurzqP3d9Yo.99

 

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by chooka

[Thai at Heart]

Seems the low life father hasn't just been convicted for tampering on just one occasion.  It appears he is a career pedophile.  The Dept Human Svc's (DHS) should immeadiately remove the twin sister from harms way.   This piece of filth should not be anywhere near children and definitely should be able to use surrogate to cultivate fresh meat for him to feed off.
 
 

Father in Gammy case has string of child sex convictions

 

A Western Australian man believed to be the biological father of abandoned baby Gammy has been convicted of child sex offences on multiple occasions, 9NEWS can reveal.
The man, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, went to jail for three years in the late 90s on two child sex offences against two girls under the age of 10.
He was later convicted of indecent dealings with a child under the age of 13.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/08/05/13/43/gammy-case-biological-father-string-of-child-sex-offences#IaYT3YurzqP3d9Yo.99

 
 

The whole cannot be identified for legal reasons is a strange one.

He entered into an illegal business contract in Thailand. Why is he entitled to privacy over a matter of public record.

[chooka]

 

Seems the low life father hasn't just been convicted for tampering on just one occasion.  It appears he is a career pedophile.  The Dept Human Svc's (DHS) should immeadiately remove the twin sister from harms way.   This piece of filth should not be anywhere near children and definitely should be able to use surrogate to cultivate fresh meat for him to feed off.
 
 

Father in Gammy case has string of child sex convictions

 

 

A Western Australian man believed to be the biological father of abandoned baby Gammy has been convicted of child sex offences on multiple occasions, 9NEWS can reveal.
The man, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, went to jail for three years in the late 90s on two child sex offences against two girls under the age of 10.
He was later convicted of indecent dealings with a child under the age of 13.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/08/05/13/43/gammy-case-biological-father-string-of-child-sex-offences#IaYT3YurzqP3d9Yo.99

 
 

The whole cannot be identified for legal reasons is a strange one.

He entered into an illegal business contract in Thailand. Why is he entitled to privacy over a matter of public record.

 

Because he is a convicted career pedophile and when they are released back into society it is illegal to release their names or addresses to protect these lowlife excrement.