Freedom Of Speech

[kayo]

Freedom of Speech.

A topic that has been touched upon by every culture, relating to every topic known under the sun.

A recent thread that was (in my opinion, correctly) closed, brought this to my mind.

Freedom of speech: A large part of what makes freedom of speech work is enTRUSTING adults to make their own choices.

If, for example there were to be a discussion on say, peadophilia, or travel to, say North Korea under a dicatator regime, or any sort of controversial topic, some so-called idealists, I have noted, would prefer to eliminate the possiblity of even mentioning it, or having it shown through advertising.

I disagree. I think it can be advertised or anything, because i feel that as individual ADULTS, we are FREE to decide whether or not to click that banner, or to discuss that topic.

I may not agree with certain things, but at least that CHOICE is there that I can click that ad.

If I don´t like it, it´s my FREE CHOICE to NOT click on it.

On the other hand, if that banner is not there, then my FREEDOM OF CHOICE is being restricted. And that would make the board mods as bad as POL POT.

I agree with mods on here to a large extent: "This is what we provide. If you don´t like it, you can .....(insert at will: discuss/<deleted>.ck off, whatever....).

But it is your choice. You see an ad you don´t like, simple: DON¨T click on it.

Move on with your life. Go to a thread about somehting else, and the ads will adapt.

Discuss at will. Or not, if you don´t like it. that´s your freedom.

Edited July 3, 2006 by kayo

[tourleadersi]

Its a bit strong likening the moderators of TV to Pol Pot when all they are doing is to try and operate the board within the boundaries of this country.

Sometimes free speech can go a little too far.

[Lacoste]

The whole point of the situation is the fact that the people of the particular country in question do not have freedom and free speech, many of them have zero rights so why should we in the free world alow these military dictators any freedom within the free world?

Charlie.

[Donz]

Yes free speech will definately go too far in here.

For example alot of topic here about about some thai thing and then it turns into a putting down Thai thread and everyone is barely just staying within the rules, if these rules were taken away then we will have all sorts of BS i here.

The other day some troll made a topic of how all Thai people should have there heads flushed dow the toilet, it was removed and rightfully so.

We cant have topics like that floating around.

[kayo]

Its a bit strong likening the moderators of TV to Pol Pot when all they are doing is to try and operate the board within the boundaries of this country.

Sometimes free speech can go a little too far.

Well yeah, it is. You´re right. Perhaps my phrasing wasn´t correct,

here it is again, with inserted quotes to try to clarify.

On the other hand,

HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING

if that banner is not there

ie: removed by mods, which, it is NOT

, then my FREEDOM OF CHOICE is being restricted. And that would make the board mods as bad as POL POT.

[Guest endure]

TV has no obligation at all to provide a forum for free speech. On the 'net free speech costs money. Anyone who's concerned about free speech is perfectly entitled to spend their own money opening a forum of their own.

[Lacoste]

TV has no obligation at all to provide a forum for free speech. On the 'net free speech costs money. Anyone who's concerned about free speech is perfectly entitled to spend their own money opening a forum of their own.

The thread is reffering to this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=74800

[Thaiquila]

Two things seem to be in play to limit the total free speech on this board.

One is commercial realities. TV has paid adverts and doesn't want to offend these entities to the point they would stop buying.

Two is Thai government censorship issues. If the topics go too far in violation of Thai sensibilities, it runs the threat of becoming a banned site. There is so much great and useful content on this site, that for better or worse, a middle ground does need to be accepted, for it would a great loss for thousands of people to have the site threatened (and probably also really bad for the commercial aspect).

So, no it realistically can't be total free speech here. Oh well.

[Crushdepth]

If this is about the thread on advertising/travel to Myanmar, I agree that there was no valid reason to shut it down (the only reason I can think of is that the mod was worried about the reference to 'the source of advertising' which is a valid concern for a commercial site because the service agreement forbids it).

Anyway, what I wanted to add (but couldn't) is that Myanmar is a beautiful country - one of the most gorgeous in the region - and worth seeing. It's full of great, gutsy people that are hard up for cash because of a shit government, and it sucks.

But to the OP of the other thread: Economic sanctions only punish the poor, not the people in charge. Go there and see it for yourself and if you still think differently on your return, well good for you but I don't think you will.

Don't boycott the guy in the street, because I assure you that he hates the generals more than you ever will. The only way to loosen the grip of the junta is through dialogue.

[khall64au]

Hmmm.... you been hangin'out at hydroponic cactus worm farms again, haven't you chang chompoo? Stay AT THE LAKE - do you hear me?

[Guest endure]

TV has no obligation at all to provide a forum for free speech. On the 'net free speech costs money. Anyone who's concerned about free speech is perfectly entitled to spend their own money opening a forum of their own.

The thread is reffering to this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=74800

The thread that is being referred to is irrelevant to the point of my post.

[kayo]

TV has no obligation at all to provide a forum for free speech. On the 'net free speech costs money. Anyone who's concerned about free speech is perfectly entitled to spend their own money opening a forum of their own.

Agreed.. Ok, again, I maybe wasn´t concise, again! I like the freedom we are allowed on here and I believe I am generally within the boundaries of it.

I guess I meant that I supported the decision to NOT restrict the banners in question, and that´s because I deem it my right to choose to click it or not. Yet nor do i make any point of total freedom. Even with my loved ones speech is never entirely free, nor with my employees. there´s always a diplomacy. I may be able to make my point, whatever it may be, but I may have to say it in a round about manner, using/being respectful, and if I´m smart, possibbly still be able to make my point, yet without the offence that may otherwise be used. .

TV has no obligation at all to provide a forum for free speech. On the 'net free speech costs money. Anyone who's concerned about free speech is perfectly entitled to spend their own money opening a forum of their own.

The thread is reffering to this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=74800

yes it is, however that thread is closed and I would rather this one was left open, as I am not Solely referring to that.-I am talking more in general terms.-

by the was, crush, I refer you to my OP

ç

A recent thread that was (in my opinion, correctly) closed, brought this to my mind.

Edited July 3, 2006 by kayo

[Pattayaman]

How long before they close this thread any bets

[kayo]

So, yeah...

My initial point, maybe I change to a question.

I am not discussing the moderation issues here, NOT AT ALL, although I was nearly baited into going down that precarious alley.

I am discussing why some MEMBERS think they can decide to restrict free advertising (free, as in decided by google and the board)

BTW Google´s motto Don´t be Evil, also doesn´t dictate to them to restrict the advertising to a ridiculous degree. Only a little. The priority is still freedom of information within the parameters of human dignity.

ARE YOU mature enough to be able to decide what you click upon (banner wise) on the internet?

If you are, then I think we are all doing okay.

If you are not, then maybe you should get your mummy to put parentla lock on here.

In the mean time, I think the mods are doing fine in establishing what they allow and do not allow, and this board is doing fine.

[percy2]

How long before they close this thread any bets

This is discussion on the moderation of this forum which is clearly against the rules of the forum.

So in theory it will be closed very soon.

Whether there should be discussion on the rules / Moderation / moderators is an interesting question.

Cheers

[kayo]

I should pouint out that I do not support any economic investment in Burma nor any travel tourism as dictated by the junta.

I am trying to remain on the topic of free edit: freedom of speech and users (consumer) choice in advertising.

Edited July 3, 2006 by kayo

[Guest endure]

I think the ad should be allowed to stand. If there are people who aren't grown up enough to have a mind of their own why should those of us who have be obliged to cater to their deficiencies? Why can't they just stick their fingers in their ears, sing lalalala and hide under the sheets like all children do?

[kayo]

[khall64au]

Guys - calm down........ there is NO AGENDA here at this late hour. Just calmly discussing nothing in general, playing some groovin' music and thinking about nothing much really - right now! Let's keep it that way... xoxo ... just for today?

WOMEN!!!!!!!!!

[khall64au]

But on the OTHER hand..... never , ever travelled to China in the last 20 years (nor did my friends) 'cos of the human rights records wrought by those wonderful wizards....

Santana's "Monsters Under My Bed".... ????? USA, China, Iran, Planet Pluto or beyond?

[kayo]

khall.. you are such a girl....... Oh wait.. you are... Anyway, it´s two thirty in the afternoon here....

[khall64au]

khall.. you are such a girl....... Oh wait.. you are... Anyway, it´s two thirty in the afternoon here....

Kayo - I could change my life to better suit your mood cos.... you're soooo smoooooooooooooth!!!!!!!!!!

[kayo]

and sweet too, apparently... says bops...

It´s okay, though... I´d rather just

be here.. .dancing cheek to cheek...

[GuestHouse]

TAKING YOUR ARGUMENT TO ONE LOGICAL CONCLUSION

One such example of an adult aproach to freedom of speach is the decision by the owners of Thai Visa to limit the bounds of what is discussed to within what they, the owners, feel is reasonable.

Members, and non members can then choose to remain members or join on the basis of the 'Standards of Discussion'.

This member recalls when almost every other day there was a bar girl rant on Thai visa, the owners put a stop to that an improved the site.

If you want to discuss things off limits here on TV there are other websites where you are welcome, or if you are really 'out there', start your own webboard.

[udon]

Two things seem to be in play to limit the total free speech on this board.

One is commercial realities. TV has paid adverts and doesn't want to offend these entities to the point they would stop buying.

Two is Thai government censorship issues. If the topics go too far in violation of Thai sensibilities, it runs the threat of becoming a banned site. There is so much great and useful content on this site, that for better or worse, a middle ground does need to be accepted, for it would a great loss for thousands of people to have the site threatened (and probably also really bad for the commercial aspect).

So, no it realistically can't be total free speech here. Oh well.

Good post.

It does make me wonder how another site gets away with the <deleted> it carries.

[Ulysses G.]

Two things seem to be in play to limit the total free speech on this board.

One is commercial realities. TV has paid adverts and doesn't want to offend these entities to the point they would stop buying.

Two is Thai government censorship issues. If the topics go too far in violation of Thai sensibilities, it runs the threat of becoming a banned site. There is so much great and useful content on this site, that for better or worse, a middle ground does need to be accepted, for it would a great loss for thousands of people to have the site threatened (and probably also really bad for the commercial aspect).

So, no it realistically can't be total free speech here. Oh well.

Good post.

It does make me wonder how another site gets away with the <deleted> it carries.

They hide the REALLY nasty stuff in "members only" forums that censors don't have access to because you need to have made a lot of posts to see them.

[jdinasia]

It has been said ... ad nauseum ...

There is no absolute freedom of speech on here (TV) and there won't be. No Big Deal!

There is a third aspect to 'censorship" here that is equally as valid as the legalities of some topics ... or advertising revenue ... and that is they are so devisive that there are topics that ALWAYS devolve into nasty fights (pedos, suicides, etc)

really ... if you want to swim in my poool ... you'll wear a suit and shower first ... the same sound reasoning that TV uses for posting here.

[chownah]

If you want really free speech then start your own website and BABY LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL!!!!!!!!

[percy2]

I think generally the mods here are doing a good job to not let discussions get out of hand / keep discussions away from forbidden topics.

They do seem to be closing threads on a much more frequent basis. It appears to be "annoying" and possibly even "sinister". But the reality is , its probably just the easiest way to moderate the forum rather than editing and admonishing(sp).

cheers

[Wolfie]

Ok lets try this again, shall we?

Two things seem to be in play to limit the total free speech on this board.

One is commercial realities. TV has paid adverts and doesn't want to offend these entities to the point they would stop buying.

Two is Thai government censorship issues. If the topics go too far in violation of Thai sensibilities, it runs the threat of becoming a banned site. There is so much great and useful content on this site, that for better or worse, a middle ground does need to be accepted, for it would a great loss for thousands of people to have the site threatened (and probably also really bad for the commercial aspect).

So, no it realistically can't be total free speech here. Oh well.

... and ...

TV has no obligation at all to provide a forum for free speech. On the 'net free speech costs money. Anyone who's concerned about free speech is perfectly entitled to spend their own money opening a forum of their own.

... and ...

Thaivisa does not have control over all the ads shown on the site, and those the OP is quoting are from the Google ad system which does topic sensitive, selective advertising.

It would have been preferable if you directed your concerns to a site admin or moderator instead of using the general forum and adapting a style that is almost accusatory in its nature, without having checked the facts first.

... and finally ...

This is discussion on the moderation of this forum which is clearly against the rules of the forum.

So in theory it will be closed very soon.

These cries of "Moderator censorship" etc are getting somewhat boreing and old. I would like to remind each and every member that you agreed to the forum rules when you created your username, those that choose not to stick by these rules whilst posting are 'moderated' accordingly.

If you disagree with any rule in place on this board then you are advised to discuss the issue with an Administrator, who are the people who decide the rules.

So this topic is going to be closed now, please dont reopen it under another title otherwise holidays will be deemed necessary for the offending posters.

Thanks for your understanding in this

Regards

Wolfie