Missing British Children in Thailand

[frankybaby]

Parental abduction worldwide is extremely common. It happened to my daughter 8 years ago ,for which ,at first ,I had joint custody. Unfortunately, many parents believe they own the child or children and even refuse visitation as a revenge for a bitter divorce . I found the school where she goes on Google search, but she is brainwashed against me and refuse any contact. Sad. I wish this father good luck. This mother is not doing any favors to her children

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Nan Laew, I generally read your posts and admire most of them. However, what you have written here does you no credit. You have jumped on someone's bandwagon and made your mind up. These FACTS are part of the story, they are not verifiable at this time. Emotions run high, but if you stand back and look at it, most people are on here show a lack of empathy with the woman's side of things. At most, she sees herself as guilty of defying a court order. A piece of paper. Imagine your wife if she was in this situation? Would she be sane, cool, collected at the thought of maybe NEVER SEEING her children again? I don't think so

Slightly off topic.

You are assigning western family values to Thai mothers.

I have 3 Thai children in my care, and none of their Thai parents seem to care if they ever see them again.

From what I have seen in my Thai family, and from their friends, mothers not really caring about their children is fairly common.

Let's not forget, in the west children come with government funding.

Edited August 3, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Robroona]

Nan Laew, I generally read your posts and admire most of them. However, what you have written here does you no credit. You have jumped on someone's bandwagon and made your mind up. These FACTS are part of the story, they are not verifiable at this time. Emotions run high, but if you stand back and look at it, most people are on here show a lack of empathy with the woman's side of things. At most, she sees herself as guilty of defying a court order. A piece of paper. Imagine your wife if she was in this situation? Would she be sane, cool, collected at the thought of maybe NEVER SEEING her children again? I don't think so

Slightly off topic.

You are assigning western family values to Thai mothers.

I have 3 Thai children in my care, and none of their Thai parents seem to care if they ever see them again.

From what I have seen in my Thai family, and from their friends, mothers not really caring about their children is fairly common.

Let's not forget, in the west children come with government funding.

I am sorry if I cannot muster any enthusiasm or understanding of whatever point you are trying to make here. Children with government funding??? Your comments are as shallow as the place you were spawned.

I am with a lady who has 2 children and heaven help anyone who gets in her way as far as the children are concerned. Thai Visa members very often comment on the Thai family mentality, mostly because it is very difficult to break into the circle, and here we have people writing about he mother and family supporting her.

I would suggest that it is you who is applying the wrong set of values

[Jim walker]

The British embassy springs into action once again The British Embassy, despite huge pressure, appears to have done absolutely nothing to help, I hope it all works out well and has a happy outcome and that the girls get back to their real home in the UK and their mother is taught a lesson for kidnapping kids.

[Franky Bear]

As I remember from when the story originally broke, the Norwegian fellow is at sea. Not sure exactly if it was a fishing or merchant vessel.

But I do agree that it is more than possible that the lady loves her children and just cannot bear to hand them back. I have no knowledge of how the couple split up, but it is possible that she could have been vulnerable or confused at the time. These things are hard on both parents during the court cases, and I would like to think that she had equal resources at the time. In more than a few countries, you get the justice you can afford.

Now she has the security of her new marriage, her new circumstances may have changed her thinking from the time she gave her kids up. The enormity of what she gave up then may have hit her hard. I think she will be scared, and the consequences of her actions will be enormous.

As for some of the posts here tonight, they are shocking, lacking in compassion or understanding a person's love for their children. I would think that 99% of the posts are from men! which itself tells us something. Who knows if she was bad and her husband was good? But the Thai Visa hang em high brigade are on to it.

Excellent post,

I would be happy if any of the members on this thread that have criticized the British embassy could explain to me the implications of dual nationality.

It wouldn't shock me to find that the father shuffled the girls through immigration on Thai passports, hence negating any visa issues.

That's a detail I would like clarified.

I'm with you here

[theslime]

This is such a heart breaking story, but I am sure that if the reward was upped to 1 Million Baht, the children would soon be safe again with their father, as the woman would soon be ratted out, by her family or her friends.

Hopefully, the end result will be a happy one for the poor children and their dad.

You poor soul, has the Mother reminded you of your own ratting family.

[laolover88]

Am beginning to wonder if this a true story

Childrens' Names/Ages/Passports/Visits to Thailand/Birth Certificates/Born where/ID Cards/Schools?/ Marriage where/Lived where/

C'mon TV Members not stupid...Bit of info?? If someone wants help!

[GuestHouse]

I would have thought bringing charges against the Norwegian b/f would help matters along.

While the mother might believe she can get away with kidnapping children, the Norwegian would I expect not want such a charge standing against him.

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Nan Laew, I generally read your posts and admire most of them. However, what you have written here does you no credit. You have jumped on someone's bandwagon and made your mind up. These FACTS are part of the story, they are not verifiable at this time. Emotions run high, but if you stand back and look at it, most people are on here show a lack of empathy with the woman's side of things. At most, she sees herself as guilty of defying a court order. A piece of paper. Imagine your wife if she was in this situation? Would she be sane, cool, collected at the thought of maybe NEVER SEEING her children again? I don't think so

Slightly off topic.
You are assigning western family values to Thai mothers.
I have 3 Thai children in my care, and none of their Thai parents seem to care if they ever see them again.
From what I have seen in my Thai family, and from their friends, mothers not really caring about their children is fairly common.

Let's not forget, in the west children come with government funding.

I have observed this before where neither parent wants to see their children and are happy allowing others to raise them......until! the children do something of note and qualify for a good well paid job and then the parents will be back to claim their talented offspring.

I would have thought bringing charges against the Norwegian b/f would help matters along.

While the mother might believe she can get away with kidnapping children, the Norwegian would I expect not want such a charge standing against him.

Everyone complains about this country being a third world almost banana republic and now you want it to positively behave like one. How on earth do you propose to bring charges to the Norwegian boy friend?? How do you bring charges against him when it is said he works off-shore. Was he even here at the time of the incident and if he was did he take part in it? What if your wife killed someone and did a runner and the police decide to charge you with murder and keep you in the slammer until your wife shows up again! How does that work?

[Bakseeda]

The British Embassy, despite huge pressure, appears to have done absolutely nothing to help. A call several weeks after the kidnap saw an embassy official telling the father that the official dealing with his file was on vacation, nothing was being done.

Why did we not sell all the land the Brit Embassy is on and send the whole bunch back home - they are nothing but a disgrace and a total wast of taxpayers money.

Workers at the British Embassy do absolutely nothing ... All Embassy workers should be sacked and made to find real jobs.. Better burn the moneys used to fund British Embassies .. world wide...! There will be no Scottish Embassies....

[Yann55]

The British Embassy, despite huge pressure, appears to have done absolutely nothing to help. A call several weeks after the kidnap saw an embassy official telling the father that the official dealing with his file was on vacation, nothing was being done.

Why did we not sell all the land the Brit Embassy is on and send the whole bunch back home - they are nothing but a disgrace and a total wast of taxpayers money.

Your post has 49 'likes'.... that's quite a performance... and quite a 'hint' too, as to how popular the British Embassy in Thailand is with the Brits who live here. Mind you, if that makes them feel any better, I have reason to believe that other Western Embassies are just as unpopular, useless, costly and of hardly any help whatsoever except for petty administrative tasks like renewing a passport or authenticating a document, which could easily be done by a much smaller unit at a much lower cost.

Embassies are a thing of the past, it's been said over and over, but no one has had the guts yet to kick into that termites nest. There are many reasons for that, the main one being that embassies serve as 'prestige cupboards' for politicians of all countries who are set aside for political reasons.

Most of the lesser jobs in all embassies are also given to people as a favor, in a kingly manner which has nothing to do with competence.and/or democracy.

The massive waste of taxpayers money all over the world that goes into feeding the Diplomaticosaurus is simply mind boggling.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Yann55

[robertson468]

Perhaps a lead in might be the the address given by the Norweign Boyfriend on his Visa Application? Just a thought!

[GuestHouse]

I would have thought bringing charges against the Norwegian b/f would help matters along.

While the mother might believe she can get away with kidnapping children, the Norwegian would I expect not want such a charge standing against him.

Everyone complains about this country being a third world almost banana republic and now you want it to positively behave like one. How on earth do you propose to bring charges to the Norwegian boy friend?? How do you bring charges against him when it is said he works off-shore. Was he even here at the time of the incident and if he was did he take part in it? What if your wife killed someone and did a runner and the police decide to charge you with murder and keep you in the slammer until your wife shows up again! How does that work?

Arriving on British passports, the girls, their father and his current partner met with the Mother and her 3rd child, by Norwegian Fisherman,Tor Gamlem , her Norwegian husband, and the girls were allowed to stay with her for several days as planned.

Clearly the Norwegian b/f was there when the girls went missing - I'm not sure about 'Banana Republics' but I am sure that charges brought against him in Thailand as an accomplice to child kidnapping would follow him to Norway.

Brining such charges is what is known as 'a wedge'. He'd soon come to see his own self interests are more important than those of his g/f.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I would suggest that it is you who is applying the wrong set of values

You don't think I should be taking care of other people's children?

I suppose I could just chuck them out, but seems a bit heartless to me.

[Robroona]

I would suggest that it is you who is applying the wrong set of values

You don't think I should be taking care of other people's children?

I suppose I could just chuck them out, but seems a bit heartless to me.

I have read, and re- read all my posts on this subject. I cannot find any reference to your personal relationships and bringing up other peoples children. So now, for whatever reason, you seize the chance to go all moody on us. If you are doing so, then I applaud you, but please do not think you are a martyr for doing so. I would think that a huge number of TVF members are also bringing up the children of others, directly or indirectly

[AGareth2]

work on the consciense of the husband

[banglakanga]

How big of a POS does a mom have to be to lose custody to a foreign MAN?? Did he buy his way into that decision or was it determined that the kids would be better off with the rich dad instead of the poor mom? Very rare for a man to win sole custody unless the woman is a nutter.

That said, the mom does have some DSL's--I'd bone her.

The real lesson here to remember is: "The thinner the eyebrow, the crazier the woman."

Stereotyping???

Just because a woman happens to have been in Pattaya dose not mean the are a POS, your post is insulting to most of the female population of Pattaya as only a small percentage are actually in Pattaya to earn money from selling their bodies, such a post just proves your ignorance.

Whatever happened between the mother and farther must be a sad story, the courts awarded custody to the farther, but rightly they normally award it to the mother but whether the mother did not want, was unfit to have or was paid to surrender custody we do not know why.

The children have be living here in England for 6 years, educated here and speak English, I do not know if they can speak or write Thai but this traumatic time can not be good for them and I hope they will be found soon.

Yes the children can speak Thai...

Nice to see the story up here too even if some of the comments have lost sense of what's important here

Getting the children back to their Father Rob no??

I know Rob and what a very very decent man and father he is and the children too..

Praying for their safe return a.s.a.p (roomark )

Edited August 3, 2014 by banglakanga

[NanLaew]

I would have thought bringing charges against the Norwegian b/f would help matters along.

While the mother might believe she can get away with kidnapping children, the Norwegian would I expect not want such a charge standing against him.

There's two ways of reading the Norwegians activity with the article inferring that he somehow evaded being detected by inbound Immigration so could possibly be in collusion. However,I would have thought that non-detection could mean he hasn't tried to enter yet. Then they get a bit less vague by mentioning he "managed to pass through arrivals on a short term visa without being recognized" which means the local plod had NOT alerted Immigration on time and he was discovered to have entered by checking entry records after the fact. I assume the 'short term visa' is non-exempt entry so it should be a lot easier to nab him when he's leaving.

[belg]

the police is negotiating .. so in thailand they are also judge & jury ?

crime has been comitted and jail time is appropriated

[NanLaew]

As I remember from when the story originally broke, the Norwegian fellow is at sea. Not sure exactly if it was a fishing or merchant vessel.

But I do agree that it is more than possible that the lady loves her children and just cannot bear to hand them back. I have no knowledge of how the couple split up, but it is possible that she could have been vulnerable or confused at the time. These things are hard on both parents during the court cases, and I would like to think that she had access to equal resources at the time. In more than a few countries, you get the justice you can afford.

Now she has the security of her new marriage, her new circumstances may have changed her thinking from the time she gave her kids up. The enormity of what she gave up then may have hit her hard. I think she will be scared, and the consequences of her actions will be enormous.

As for some of the posts here tonight, they are shocking, lacking in compassion or understanding a person's love for their children. I would think that 99% of the posts are from men! which itself tells us something. Who knows if she was bad and her husband was good? But the Thai Visa hang em high brigade are on to it.

One more thing. I am not taking sides because the welfare of the children is paramount, but the whole story is written from the husband's perspective. Due to the lady's predicament, we cannot see her side of the story. Would it matter or would anyone be remotely interested?

When this story first broke; and that WAS several weeks ago, the same arguments were made that the right thing to do is wait to hear the mothers side of the story. Benefit of the doubt granted and we waited.

Then the maternal grandmother has come forth and asked for money or immunity from prosecution or both before handing the children over. So there you have your benefit of the doubt. The full measure of this "mothers" love for her children... and HER mother too? Money. Then they play around with some pre-agreed meeting to give the girls back to their PARENT AND LEGAL GUARDIAN.

These are FACTS and not just the imagination of a rich, domineering and controlling father. The biggest shame is the local police, so comfortable in their inbred belief that the mother always has custody, legal or otherwise, waited too long to do anything. To blame the British Embassy may be fashionable but at best it is specious since it is not and has never been in their remit to do anything more than offer support in any personal matters of UK citizens abroad.

Nan Laew, I generally read your posts and admire most of them. However, what you have written here does you no credit. You have jumped on someone's bandwagon and made your mind up. These FACTS are part of the story, they are not verifiable at this time. Emotions run high, but if you stand back and look at it, most people are on here show a lack of empathy with the woman's side of things. At most, she sees herself as guilty of defying a court order. A piece of paper. Imagine your wife if she was in this situation? Would she be sane, cool, collected at the thought of maybe NEVER SEEING her children again? I don't think so

I can only base my opinions on what has been reported by several independent local media sources but once again, I will give the mother the benefit of the doubt. Yes, despite the claims of missing SIM cards, hurriedly vacated lodging, cars with fake number plates, I will discount the importance of a court issued 'piece of paper' and give her the benefit of the doubt. Despite the fact that after almost 2 months this story is more than some byline on foreign language media in Thailand and has featured quite prominently on local news, I give her the benefit of the doubt. Regardless of the fact that this story is now very common knowledge and the mother has, by nature of her nationality and native tongue, even greater ease of access to the same media to plainly state HER case (but she has chosen otherwise), I will give her the benefit of the doubt. Ignoring that despite being offered immunity from prosecution, the children were not returned as part of that deal, I will give her the benefit of the doubt. Finally, she gets another pass because it isn't her fault that her parents have asked for money in lieu of anything else being discussed.

There has been absolutely nothing published to suggest that there was any chance of her "maybe NEVER SEEING her children again?" so not sure at all where that came from but, I will give her the benefit of the doubt.

Did I miss anything?

Did you?

Edited August 3, 2014 by NanLaew

[banglakanga]

Rob gained full custody of the children in a Thai court..

Was she so confused when she told him a few years ago he could have the children if he bought them off her??

Luckily he wasn't so stupid then and taped her saying it using it against her...

We'll give her the benefit of doubt though hey fellas??

Come on....

[damo]

Hope the fella gets his girls back, they might have been born in Thailand but they're Poms, He was given custody for a reason and the years in UK would have distanced the kids from the mother. I wouldn't have given her the time of day let alone time with my daughters. Sounds like the father would have no worries if everyone was doing their respective jobs.

[Jeremy50]

The British Embassy, despite huge pressure, appears to have done absolutely nothing to help. A call several weeks after the kidnap saw an embassy official telling the father that the official dealing with his file was on vacation, nothing was being done.

Why did we not sell all the land the Brit Embassy is on and send the whole bunch back home - they are nothing but a disgrace and a total wast of taxpayers money.

Agreed. I dread having to go there, and loath every living being within its walls.

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The British Embassy, despite huge pressure, appears to have done absolutely nothing to help. A call several weeks after the kidnap saw an embassy official telling the father that the official dealing with his file was on vacation, nothing was being done.

Why did we not sell all the land the Brit Embassy is on and send the whole bunch back home - they are nothing but a disgrace and a total wast of taxpayers money.

Workers at the British Embassy do absolutely nothing ... All Embassy workers should be sacked and made to find real jobs.. Better burn the moneys used to fund British Embassies .. world wide...! There will be no Scottish Embassies....

How do you know? Do you work there? They do lots, and do everything possible within the international law applied to Embassies. Let us also be quite clear, an Embassy is not there for you, they were established to take care of sovereign interests abroad and to assist in trade and commerce. If Scotland has no Embassies (as if they are going to listen to you!) then it will have no voice for Trade and Industry abroad (so just where will you sell all that oil then and how will you lobby for better tax concessions?). Scotland WILL have representation if it becomes independent and they will more than likely want to co-locate with another Nations Embassy and share facilities. Lets see how well they take care of Scots abroad in need then. (by the way, I am a Scot).

The trouble is everyone expects to be able to go abroad of their own choice and when they get in the sh*t they expect the Government to use tax payers money to get them out of the sh*t. All Governments operate in every country according to law and the British are one of the best of all. Do you know they get people knocking at the door at the Embassy saying "I have lost my credit card can you issue me another one", and "I have spent all my money can I get a lone until I get home", when those people are told, 'sorry we can't do that', they leave and say 'Embassy staff are a bunch of worthless bas****s who do nothing for anybody'!! You and all those with your attitude need to grow up and learn exactly what an Embassy is for and what they can and cannot do - by LAW! You also need to realise that when you leave your country of origin and stick two fingers up at it, that is entirely your prerogative to do so but when the sh*t hits the fan why do you expect those same people to give you a hand?

I do not believe that the Embassy have done nothing and believe they will have done everything possible within the law. If a case is ongoing for 6-8-10 weeks, does that mean the case officer cannot take a day off? There are lots of people on here live in cloud cuckoo land.

[Seastallion]

I really think this kind of report, on this type of subject, should not divulge special knowledge that police can use to track a suspect.

I now know that putting my sim card in just for a minute to retrieve a phone number will ping a mast. I had thought I needed to make a call.

[mrtoad]

This is terrible for the Father, who appears to have done everything right. The mother certainly seems to a wrong un, and I'm guessing the kids are being used as a bargaining chip for money. The BIB should just make some arrests as it appears that a number of people are aiding and abetting this crime.

Hope it all works out well.

[Maestro]

Removed some troll posts and the replies thereto.

[TommyDee]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The British Embassy, despite huge pressure, appears to have done absolutely nothing to help. A call several weeks after the kidnap saw an embassy official telling the father that the official dealing with his file was on vacation, nothing was being done.

Why did we not sell all the land the Brit Embassy is on and send the whole bunch back home - they are nothing but a disgrace and a total wast of taxpayers money.

Workers at the British Embassy do absolutely nothing ... All Embassy workers should be sacked and made to find real jobs.. Better burn the moneys used to fund British Embassies .. world wide...! There will be no Scottish Embassies....

How do you know? Do you work there? They do lots, and do everything possible within the international law applied to Embassies. Let us also be quite clear, an Embassy is not there for you, they were established to take care of sovereign interests abroad and to assist in trade and commerce. If Scotland has no Embassies (as if they are going to listen to you!) then it will have no voice for Trade and Industry abroad (so just where will you sell all that oil then and how will you lobby for better tax concessions?). Scotland WILL have representation if it becomes independent and they will more than likely want to co-locate with another Nations Embassy and share facilities. Lets see how well they take care of Scots abroad in need then. (by the way, I am a Scot).

The trouble is everyone expects to be able to go abroad of their own choice and when they get in the sh*t they expect the Government to use tax payers money to get them out of the sh*t. All Governments operate in every country according to law and the British are one of the best of all. Do you know they get people knocking at the door at the Embassy saying "I have lost my credit card can you issue me another one", and "I have spent all my money can I get a lone until I get home", when those people are told, 'sorry we can't do that', they leave and say 'Embassy staff are a bunch of worthless bas****s who do nothing for anybody'!! You and all those with your attitude need to grow up and learn exactly what an Embassy is for and what they can and cannot do - by LAW! You also need to realise that when you leave your country of origin and stick two fingers up at it, that is entirely your prerogative to do so but when the sh*t hits the fan why do you expect those same people to give you a hand?

I do not believe that the Embassy have done nothing and believe they will have done everything possible within the law. If a case is ongoing for 6-8-10 weeks, does that mean the case officer cannot take a day off? There are lots of people on here live in cloud cuckoo land.

an interesting post, and i would just ask that you read the inscription inside your ( and their) passports. Her Britainnic M's secretary of state requests..etc". any embassy was established to protect and enhance that request... nowadays of course.. its a business promotion office, or seems to be.

there are still a lot of detail that are held back at the moment for various reasons but suffice to say the Embassy has done very very little SO Far. that may change.

[ALFREDO]

That story was unnecessarily long (did we need the play by play of his search?), but more importantly I hope the authorities take this seriously, and that he finds his kids. Mom is evil, and her new husband as well...

Incidentally, in Japan, there are several cases of the same thing happening (Japanese and foreign national having a child, and the Japanese parent kidnapping the child), but in Japan, it is not considered a kidnapping, and the authorities side with the native-Japanese parent. At least the law is in this guys favor, although the law in Thailand isn't necessarily followed...

Your post was unnecessarily long I have to write, exactly for this words and sentence,

=="That story was unnecessarily long (did we need the play by play of his search?), but more=="

[ALFREDO]

As I remember from when the story originally broke, the Norwegian fellow is at sea. Not sure exactly if it was a fishing or merchant vessel.

But I do agree that it is more than possible that the lady loves her children and just cannot bear to hand them back. I have no knowledge of how the couple split up, but it is possible that she could have been vulnerable or confused at the time. These things are hard on both parents during the court cases, and I would like to think that she had access to equal resources at the time. In more than a few countries, you get the justice you can afford.

Now she has the security of her new marriage, her new circumstances may have changed her thinking from the time she gave her kids up. The enormity of what she gave up then may have hit her hard. I think she will be scared, and the consequences of her actions will be enormous.

As for some of the posts here tonight, they are shocking, lacking in compassion or understanding a person's love for their children. I would think that 99% of the posts are from men! which itself tells us something. Who knows if she was bad and her husband was good? But the Thai Visa hang em high brigade are on to it.

One more thing. I am not taking sides because the welfare of the children is paramount, but the whole story is written from the husband's perspective. Due to the lady's predicament, we cannot see her side of the story. Would it matter or would anyone be remotely interested?

One is for sure.

The children in the English school system and with a European future would be sure better off than staying in TH with Thai schooling or nor school at all.