USA Visa for wife refused with 10 year ban due to suspicion of working in massage

[tomloughney]

I know the wife about 4 years, she was working in Thai Massage on the dark side of Pattaya, in a normal Thai massage not far from my house in Pattaya. I have lived in Thailand for 18 years and know the difference between good massage place and a "good" massage place.

 

Before that she had a Thai husband from 25 to 40 years old, then a German BF for 3 years, and then me, she is now 48 years old.

 

Some of the details of the past are not totally clear, but seemingly "normal" for Thais. I have been here for 18 years so not much new to me.

 

We are married for over a year and I decided to get her a visa to the USA for my daughters wedding.

 

We did not talk about what she should say regarding her history of work/BF/etc because of the 4 years we were together. 

 

She came out of the interview, saying denied and then told me of the 10 year ban due to "working in a massage shop where prostitution was taking place."

 

She claims that she was accused of working in such a place, she said no it was an open shop, no rooms. They did not believe her and kept questioning her when she said

"Up to you, think what you want to think."  Which is in keeping with her style, when she gets pissed she just stops. 

 

They wrote that she "admitted to working in a place where prostitution was taking place"    

 

I contacted a visa lawyer, (any suggestions welcome). Who after a consultation fee would fight the decision for about 50,000 Baht.

 

The wife wants to just go back and re-apply next year.

 

The law reads that after 5 or so years a conviction for a crime it will be forgiven regarding applying for a visa.

 

She was never convicted of anything, only suspicion  but it was written that she admitted.

 

So the question is?

 

Do I try and fight the refusal on the grounds that they accused her wrongly or do I just apply next year and check the box that asked if a visa has ever been denied, or just re apply and not check the box.

 

Or figure that the USA is out of the question as I am 67 and she is 48. 

 

There should be some sort of time limit on crimes from when they were committed or suspicion of being committed, not from when the application was made?

 

Suggestions?

[jbaldwin]

Have you got anything in writing confirming the reason for reject? Is it possible that your wife does not want to go to the USA and this is easier than just telling you.

[howerde]

What did she write on her application form for job/employment?

[isawasnake]

First off, I am sorry to hear this. 

 

I definitely think this a situation for a lawyer myself. I have been up and down similar roads too, not your exact spot, but it is just all so difficult. Finding a good lawyer is next to impossible. And you never really know if they are good or not, it is just such a nightmare. I noticed there were some recommendations on here in old threads. 

[Paul888]

Seems honesty may not be the best policy after all.

 

I really don't see what somebody may or may not have done at some point In their life to make ends meet is of any consequence to anybody. As the OP states, she has not been convicted of any crime.

 

Surely the only things that are important are that you can prove your relationship and that she has a life to return to here and is not an overstay risk.

 

I would run the refusal letter by one of the better visa agents and see if they can get some more information for you as to what exactly was noted and whether you can seek any appeal or re-review of the case.

 

10 year ban seems excessively harsh if what you have been told is the full story................

[Eliot Rosewater]

I know the wife about 4 years, she was working in Thai Massage on the dark side of Pattaya, in a normal Thai massage not far from my house in Pattaya. I have lived in Thailand for 18 years and know the difference between good massage place and a "good" massage place.
 
Before that she had a Thai husband from 25 to 40 years old, then a German BF for 3 years, and then me, she is now 48 years old.
 
Some of the details of the past are not totally clear, but seemingly "normal" for Thais. I have been here for 18 years so not much new to me.
 
We are married for over a year and I decided to get her a visa to the USA for my daughters wedding.
 
We did not talk about what she should say regarding her history of work/BF/etc because of the 4 years we were together. 
 
She came out of the interview, saying denied and then told me of the 10 year ban due to "working in a massage shop where prostitution was taking place."
 
She claims that she was accused of working in such a place, she said no it was an open shop, no rooms. They did not believe her and kept questioning her when she said
"Up to you, think what you want to think."  Which is in keeping with her style, when she gets pissed she just stops. 
 
They wrote that she "admitted to working in a place where prostitution was taking place"    
 
I contacted a visa lawyer, (any suggestions welcome). Who after a consultation fee would fight the decision for about 50,000 Baht.
 
The wife wants to just go back and re-apply next year.
 
The law reads that after 5 or so years a conviction for a crime it will be forgiven regarding applying for a visa.
 
She was never convicted of anything, only suspicion  but it was written that she admitted.
 
So the question is?
 
Do I try and fight the refusal on the grounds that they accused her wrongly or do I just apply next year and check the box that asked if a visa has ever been denied, or just re apply and not check the box.
 
Or figure that the USA is out of the question as I am 67 and she is 48. 
 
There should be some sort of time limit on crimes from when they were committed or suspicion of being committed, not from when the application was made?
 
Suggestions?

They did not accuse her wrongly; as you said they accused her and her answer was "up to you"

Up to them means they decide; therefore they decided

[Cuddlycat]

Actually when the embassy denies visa, they will not give you any exfoliation. Even you hire a lawyer your wife still need to go for an interview. It really depends on the embassy.

Tell your wife to check www.usvisa4thai.com. It's a Thai community that Thai women share theirs experiences and help one another. It may help.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Utley]

It doesn't sound like you have the full story.  My guess is that your wife was denied a visa because she doesn't have sufficient assets to guarantee her return to Thailand regardless of what she was told.

[curtklay]

It doesn't sound like you have the full story.  My guess is that your wife was denied a visa because she doesn't have sufficient assets to guarantee her return to Thailand regardless of what she was told.

 

I agree. That is the major issue these days. If Immigration is not convinced that she has compelling reasons to return to Thailand, they will deny a visa as a matter of course. Getting pissed and saying, "up to you" was not a good response to persuade them.

[isawasnake]

The way I understood his original text was that he actually had in writing the reason of workplace. If it was no ties to Thailand I am sure they would have put that. Or maybe it was both and they just put the more flagrant one. 

Edited August 5, 2014 by isawasnake

[Smokin Joe]

Similar thing happened to a friend of mine a few years ago. He lives here and had a kid with a long term girlfriend (but they were not married). He wanted to take the GF and baby back to the US to meet Grandma.

 

The interviewer was very rude and called her a prostitute and made a lot of baseless accusations and denied a tourist visa. The grandmother contacted her congressman's office and complained about the US Embassy not allowing her grandchild to make a trip to the US (too young to travel w/o the mother) and complained about their treatment of the mother. His GF received a Tourist Visa soon after.

 

The Embassy does not need any "reason" to deny a tourist and it is up to the discretion of the interviewer and the decision may be based on appearance, age, where they live, or whether the interviewer was male or female. If they get inquires from a congressman they may have to justify their decision. No guarantees but it never hurts to take a civil servant to task when they are complete jerks.

 

 

[Thaiberius]

You can be absolutely sure you aren't being told the full story.

[Thaiberius]

Sorry, dup. Edited August 5, 2014 by Thaiberius

[Cuddlycat]

I had been to US Embassy 3 times. My first tourist visa attempt was denied as well. No explanation. My 2nd attempt was with K-1, not a problem as my ex hired a lawyer. With K-1 or married visa, if you had solid document, you will be fine. But you have stay in US for AOS (adjustment of the status)

 

From what I keep reading in www.thaivisa.com, you will not know if your visa will be granted. It depends on so many reason. Mostly luck, I guess. There are those to are in and out US many times but their visa were denied with no explanation. 

 

Someone I know, A Thai woman married to Thai man who  has US.Citizen has to wait 13years to get a visa to be with her husband. It's too long story. My point is there is not much you can do if they refuse to give your wife a visa but keep trying. 

 

I have a feeling that you can't reapply as it is 10 years ban. I am truly sorry for you guys

[Richard W]

I really don't see what somebody may or may not have done at some point In their life to make ends meet is of any consequence to anybody. As the OP states, she has not been convicted of any crime.

Nominally, prostituting yourself gets a 10 year ban from receiving a visa for the US. One may get round it by asking for a waiver - there are special forms for that. I've no idea what the success rate is.

[SantiSuk]

You can be absolutely sure you aren't being told the full story.

How can you be so sure?
Libelous and racist.

[manarak]

From my point of view, it should be totally irrelevant where she worked before.

One more example of immigration services of a western country going way over the top and treating people as criminals.

 

Since OP is a US citizen, he still pays taxes there.

The administration is at the citizens' service, not the other way around.

They don't let the wife in inspite of them having no proof of any wrongdoing?

They probably also don't need OP's tax money.

 

The "iron curtain" previously was a symbol of the restriction of movement of citizens of countries of the soviet block.

We can really wonder where that iron curtain is today.

Edited August 6, 2014 by manarak

[theoldgit]

Two posts suggesting telling lies to Consular Officers removed.

[jacksam]

I will try again since my post was removed. Let me suggest to the OP that your wife was a little too forthcoming. Why was massage place mentioned especially as it was some years ago. I wonder how many people have not mentioned they met their gf in a bar. Why are we so sensitive. You the OP did not give your partner good advice. Together with she stuck in her heels with bating officer.
Maybe she didnt want to go to usa. Maybe you are remiss on your advice to her. I vote for second option.

[midasthailand]

Actually when the embassy denies visa, they will not give you any exfoliation. Even you hire a lawyer your wife still need to go for an interview. It really depends on the embassy.

Tell your wife to check www.usvisa4thai.com. It's a Thai community that Thai women share theirs experiences and help one another. It may help.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Why would one go to an Embassy for the removal of dead skin??

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Tom:

 

I assume you are a US citizen. In your shoes my first step would be to go to the US Embassy myself and inquire as to what I would need to do to secure a tourist visa for my wife to travel to the USA accompanied by myself for a visit of "X" days. Carry supporting documents to show that you both have established a life together in Thailand and offering any and all proof you have that you two will be returning to Thailand (only going for a visit). Guaranteeing to the US Embassy that you accept full responsibility for her return to Thailand. 

 

In other words, plead your case to the Embassy at the American services side. Be forthcoming with any and all details on the premise that they will "catch" any bending of facts and deny your request.  

 

You make the request - not your wife.

 

If nothing else you will get specific details on how to proceed and what your options are.

[Smokin Joe]

Tom:

 

I assume you are a US citizen. In your shoes my first step would be to go to the US Embassy myself and inquire as to what I would need to do to secure a tourist visa for my wife to travel to the USA accompanied by myself for a visit of "X" days. Carry supporting documents to show that you both have established a life together in Thailand and offering any and all proof you have that you two will be returning to Thailand (only going for a visit). Guaranteeing to the US Embassy that you accept full responsibility for her return to Thailand. 

 

In other words, plead your case to the Embassy at the American services side. Be forthcoming with any and all details on the premise that they will "catch" any bending of facts and deny your request.  

 

You make the request - not your wife.

 

If nothing else you will get specific details on how to proceed and what your options are.

 

You can not make a guarantee to the Embassy that you accept full responsibility.

 

You can not plead your case to the Embassy at the American Services side.

 

You can not even be present during the interview.

 

 

[Eliot Rosewater]

From my point of view, it should be totally irrelevant where she worked before.

One more example of immigration services of a western country going way over the top and treating people as criminals.

 

Since OP is a US citizen, he still pays taxes there.

The administration is at the citizens' service, not the other way around.

They don't let the wife in inspite of them having no proof of any wrongdoing?

They probably also don't need OP's tax money.

 

The "iron curtain" previously was a symbol of the restriction of movement of citizens of countries of the soviet block.

We can really wonder where that iron curtain is today.

If he wants his wife to come to the US then they need to do a proper marriage visa, as she is applying for a tourist visa; the immigration officers have every right to reject her for whatever reason. (As many TV posters have said about the new Thai immigration enforcement; if they don't like the look of your face they have every right to reject you. Those that back up Thai immigration in this respect must also concede that the US has the right to do the same.

 

Furthermore; the way you describe her talking with the officials; I think most Americans would agree that she does not deserve entry, behaving that way. As many TV posters have pointed out; when dealing with Thai imm., you must put on your best face, attitude, be extremely polite regardless of ANY attitude or rudeness on their part. Well, guess what? Thais must do the same.

 

Sorry folks; "Thainess" may work over here, but it doesn't and will never work in the US. I for one, am thankful for that.

 

Follow the rules, apply for the right visa, put on the right attitude, or get lost

[Shot]

OP. Did she have your passport with her supporting documents? Your status in Thailand says volumes for her return. Your passport should be the first thing she hands the officer.

 

A visa lawyer can only insure you have proper documentation. I suppose they may be able to polish her interview skills a bit, but hardly worth 50K.

 

You can’t change or omit anything from the first application, it’s the first thing they will look at if she reapplies and any changes (unless about income or something related to her return) would end the interview very quickly.

 

Post #22 by Smokin Joe is absolutely correct.

 

Do not ever lie or attempt to deceive the officer in anyway whatsoever.

 

If you’re not planning on getting married in the US, than the B2 tourist visa is the correct visa to apply for.

 

What’s done is done.

 

What to do? If you reapply (and I think you should), your wife needs to be a bit more of a salesperson regardless of what the officer throws at her. A big smile and some simple, friendly conversation go a long way. She needs to stand strong on the fact that she was not involved in anything illegal. Strong, but not rude. Her ability to explain in detail her actions (frustration) in the first interview will be imperative, as well as defending her non-involvement/knowledge of any illegal activity.

 

Keep us informed, and good luck.

 

Shot

　

　

　

Edited August 7, 2014 by Shot

[Bernard Flint]

 

You can be absolutely sure you aren't being told the full story.

How can you be so sure?
Libelous and racist.

 

 

 

Racist??????????????????

[steelepulse]

There seems to be so many posts about visas being refused, but if you look at the state deparments's stats, only 11% of applicants are refused.   http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY13.pdf

 

Be thankful you're not from "The Gambia" 74.5% refusal rate or Laos at 61%!

[theoldgit]

There seems to be so many posts about visas being refused, but if you look at the state deparments's stats, only 11% of applicants are refused.   http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY13.pdf
 
Be thankful you're not from "The Gambia" 74.5% refusal rate or Laos at 61%!

Yes an interesting table, thanks for posting the link.

It's interesting to note that Thailand also fared better than applicants from New Zealand, Ireland and the UK.

I suppose that most people from those countries would have applied electronically under the Visa Waiver programme, with only the more difficult applicants needing to apply for a visa.

[Cuddlycat]

Actually when the embassy denies visa, they will not give you any exfoliation. Even you hire a lawyer your wife still need to go for an interview. It really depends on the embassy.

Tell your wife to check www.usvisa4thai.com. It's a Thai community that Thai women share theirs experiences and help one another. It may help.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why would one go to an Embassy for the removal of dead skin??

I don't understand your expression.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[manarak]

Two posts suggesting telling lies to Consular Officers removed.

 

I don't want to suggest telling lies, but I am certainly troubled by the thought of what "Consular Officers" are doing with the truth.

[manarak]

 

There seems to be so many posts about visas being refused, but if you look at the state deparments's stats, only 11% of applicants are refused.   http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY13.pdf
 
Be thankful you're not from "The Gambia" 74.5% refusal rate or Laos at 61%!

Yes an interesting table, thanks for posting the link.

It's interesting to note that Thailand also fared better than applicants from New Zealand, Ireland and the UK.

I suppose that most people from those countries would have applied electronically under the Visa Waiver programme, with only the more difficult applicants needing to apply for a visa.

 

 

yes...

another point is probably the calculation method.

I guess many "applicants" don't even get into the statistics because they could not provide the necessary documentation for starting the application in the first place.