A question to the Immigration Commander

[Bangon]

Could you please clarify that if the new rules on Overstay are implemented at the end of this month,will there then be given a clear and unequivocal amnesty for all people to sort out there overstays at the airports and border crossings.I ask this as there has been no "official" statement from the immigration department yet...this is understandable as the new law and rules have not been passed yet!

 

So many people in the sometimes unfortunate position of overstay can then have a short period to raise funds and make travel plans to leave the kingdom and also if possible make the relevant arrangements in obtaining the appropriate visa for entry back into the country.

 

The question needs to be answered as many Foreigners who are here many years have wives children and homes and many obligations are at a risk of losing everything if there is no official amnesty announcement from the immigration department at the implementation of the new rules...if they are what we have seen published on Thai Visa and other channels.

 

There has been a flurry of activity from people here asking questions as to the best way to exit the country and come back in with the correct visa and also without being blacklisted.

 

Still there is no right or wrong way because the truth is nobody knows for certain what dates and time frame that they can hopefully sort out there visa problems and remain in the country with there families and children.

 

Mostly a lot of people are just being informed through media channels from internet forums and newspapers as to what "might happen" In some cases the UK passport system which is a disgrace at the moment with British nationals waiting up to 3 months for a new passport also could clash with the new rules and affect people like myself which would be unfair and unjust.

 

This is not a question/post to chastise over-stayers but one that i hope immigration will look at when they bring any new rules into practice.

 

 

 

A very worried foreigner.

 

 

[Tao Diver]

A much needed post. I have asked for a pinned and locked post with just the latest press releases to stop the he said, she said, they said nonsense. A lot of people could rest easier if they knew just when they needed to get their crap together and get out. Let us hope someone from immigration does read this forum as we are told they do 

[Maestro]

If, when, and in what form the proposed rule of blacklisting for overstay will come into force is still open.

 

The fact that immigration published the proposal for the rule can be considered as the offer of an opportunity to clear an overstay before the rule enters into force at an as yet unknown future date. It is to be expected, but not certain, that the rule will be in the form of a Ministerial Regulation, published in the Royal Gazette, and therefore presumably will take effect 60 days after publication. Nevertheless, people currently on overstay should not to tarry and regularise their stay without delay, not wait until the last moment.

[Maestro]

...I have asked for a pinned and locked post with just the latest press releases to stop the he said, she said, they said nonsense. A lot of people could rest easier if they knew just when they needed to get their crap together and get out. Let us hope someone from immigration does read this forum as we are told they do 

 

Yes, you did, here, and I posted my explanation here.

 

A lot of people could rest easier if they knew just when they needed to get their crap together and get out. Let us hope someone from immigration does read this forum as we are told they do 

 

 

You make it sound as if being on overstay were a normal situation, not the violation of the Immigration Act that it is, and that overstayers should take action only if and when there is absolute certainty that harsher penalties for overstaying will be imposed on a specific date than is the case at present.

[Bangon]

If, when, and in what form the proposed rule of blacklisting for overstay will come into force is still open.

 

The fact that immigration published the proposal for the rule can be considered as the offer of an opportunity to clear an overstay before the rule enters into force at an as yet unknown future date. It is to be expected, but not certain, that the rule will be in the form of a Ministerial Regulation, published in the Royal Gazette, and therefore presumably will take effect 60 days after publication. Nevertheless, people currently on overstay should not to tarry and regularise their stay without delay, not wait until the last moment.

 

Thank you Maestro for your response your "if,when and in what form" pretty much sums up what most including you and me actually know as you say it is still up for proposal!

 

As I have stated earlier wouldn't it be beneficial to all if the immigration department actually published what the criteria is example how long people have and when and if this proposal is given the go that they will introduce an amnesty as at this moment in time it is creating conflicting stories from different people because nobody knows for sure.

 

As you say nothing is certain but reading between the lines after being published in the gazette we will be looking at the end of October? But as the immigration office read this wouldn't it be nice  if only for clarity and to stop a many posts on the subject to come out and issue an official statement that would help people understand what time frame they have as all do not have the funds readily available and many are awaiting new passports 

 

http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/RKJ/index/index.htm

[Maestro]

So many people in the sometimes unfortunate position of overstay can then have a short period to raise funds and make travel plans to leave the kingdom and also if possible make the relevant arrangements in obtaining the appropriate visa for entry back into the country.

 

 

How short a period? This period already started with the publication of the proposed new rule, made on or before 2014-07-08, and will probably last until at least another 60 days from now.

 

[LuckyLew]

There is obviously still no clarity and certain sares for the new oversray / blacklisting to become a regulation. My recommendation would be to to clear any over stay you might have

[Maestro]

Still there is no right or wrong way because the truth is nobody knows for certain what dates and time frame that they can hopefully sort out there visa problems and remain in the country with there families and children.

 

 

 

On the contrary, there is a right or wrong way. The right way is not to overstay or, if you are currently on overstay, to leave Thailand without delay, accepting the penalty imposed on you. The wrong way is to remain in Thailand longer than permitted by the stamp in your passport. I is very much like with a traffic light. I do not need the announcement of a stiffer penalty, accompanied by an amnesty, to stop at a red traffic light.

 

 

[Bangon]

 

...I have asked for a pinned and locked post with just the latest press releases to stop the he said, she said, they said nonsense. A lot of people could rest easier if they knew just when they needed to get their crap together and get out. Let us hope someone from immigration does read this forum as we are told they do 

 

Yes, you did, here, and I posted my explanation here.

 

A lot of people could rest easier if they knew just when they needed to get their crap together and get out. Let us hope someone from immigration does read this forum as we are told they do 

 

 

You make it sound as if being on overstay were a normal situation, not the violation of the Immigration Act that it is, and that overstayers should take action only if and when there is absolute certainty that harsher penalties for overstaying will be imposed on a specific date than is the case at present.

 

 

Without a valid passport it is impossible to clear isn't it? as i already mentioned the British passport office is taking a considerable length of time to issue new passports.

 

You should also understand that a lot of people are also in this situation through another countries incompetence that is why i am asking the question to immigration at this time and not a month ago,please lets not get into a slinging match over peoples opinions and hope this post might get some coverage with the important people that can give certain dates and not just hearsay as we have heard here for a few weeks now.

[sustento]

 

 

...I have asked for a pinned and locked post with just the latest press releases to stop the he said, she said, they said nonsense. A lot of people could rest easier if they knew just when they needed to get their crap together and get out. Let us hope someone from immigration does read this forum as we are told they do 

 

Yes, you did, here, and I posted my explanation here.

 

A lot of people could rest easier if they knew just when they needed to get their crap together and get out. Let us hope someone from immigration does read this forum as we are told they do 

 

 

You make it sound as if being on overstay were a normal situation, not the violation of the Immigration Act that it is, and that overstayers should take action only if and when there is absolute certainty that harsher penalties for overstaying will be imposed on a specific date than is the case at present.

 

 

Without a valid passport it is impossible to clear isn't it? as i already mentioned the British passport office is taking a considerable length of time to issue new passports.

 

 

As an aside for future information it is possible (and probably a good thing considering the mess that the Passport Office is in) to renew a UK passport up to 9 months before it expires. You get your extra 9 months added onto the validity of the new passport.

[Bangon]

 

Still there is no right or wrong way because the truth is nobody knows for certain what dates and time frame that they can hopefully sort out there visa problems and remain in the country with there families and children.

 

 

 

On the contrary, there is a right or wrong way. The right way is not to overstay or, if you are currently on overstay, to leave Thailand without delay, accepting the penalty imposed on you. The wrong way is to remain in Thailand longer than permitted by the stamp in your passport. I is very much like with a traffic light. I do not need the announcement of a stiffer penalty, accompanied by an amnesty, to stop at a red traffic light.

 

 

 

 

Very black and white,the fact is people have overstayed there visa and will also overstay there visa in the coming weeks and will do so in the future.The reasons are there's and not ours to judge.

 

Your analogy with the traffic light is illuminating maestro most people get a warning at a traffic light Amber!   

[jspill]

As an aside for future information it is possible (and probably a good thing considering the mess that the Passport Office is in) to renew a UK passport up to 9 months before it expires. You get your extra 9 months added onto the validity of the new passport.

 

The day you apply, your passport is not valid for travel, regardless of time left until expiry.

[sustento]

 

As an aside for future information it is possible (and probably a good thing considering the mess that the Passport Office is in) to renew a UK passport up to 9 months before it expires. You get your extra 9 months added onto the validity of the new passport.

 

The day you apply, your passport is not valid for travel, regardless of time left until expiry.

 

Does that make what I said untrue or invalid?

[Maestro]

Without a valid passport it is impossible to clear isn't it? as i already mentioned the British passport office is taking a considerable length of time to issue new passports.
 
You should also understand that a lot of people are also in this situation through another countries incompetence that is why i am asking the question to immigration at this time and not a month ago,please lets not get into a slinging match over peoples opinions and hope this post might get some coverage with the important people that can give certain dates and not just hearsay as we have heard here for a few weeks now.

That the expiration of a passport should be cause for an overstay is news to me.

 

From the day I received my passport, I have know exactly on what date it will expire. When I travel abroad, I make sure to get a new passport if the current one is not valid beyond my intended stay abroad.

 

If I stay abroad long-term, for example in Thailand on a marriage, work, retirement, study extension, etc, I make sure to get a new passport at least six months before the old one expires. If I need to travel before the old passport expires and before my embassy or whatever other agency in charge of issuing my passport can give it to me, I get a temporary passport to tide me over, but it certainly will not force me to overstay.

[Maestro]

 

As an aside for future information it is possible (and probably a good thing considering the mess that the Passport Office is in) to renew a UK passport up to 9 months before it expires. You get your extra 9 months added onto the validity of the new passport.

 

The day you apply, your passport is not valid for travel, regardless of time left until expiry.

 

 

If this is the case, it is an issue between you and your country's passport office, and it does not force you to overstay. If travel is unavoidable during this period, you just have to get a temporary passport.

[jspill]

Does that make what I said untrue or invalid?

 

Whether someone applied to renew with 9 months remaining or 1, if they applied around the time of the UK passport crisis they'd be forced onto overstay with no valid way to clear it in both instances.  

 

Applying early or late isn't a way to avoid a random event like a backlog. When you write that some may think that's what you were implying.

[Maestro]

Very black and white,the fact is people have overstayed there visa and will also overstay there visa in the coming weeks and will do so in the future.The reasons are there's and not ours to judge.
 
Your analogy with the traffic light is illuminating maestro most people get a warning at a traffic light Amber!

 

A lot of legal clauses may be open to interpretation, but the clause requiring that a foreigner must not stay in Thailand beyond the permitted date is indeed the blackest black and the whitest white. Actually, the Immigration Act does not put it that way, but like this:

 

Section 54 : Any alien who enters or come to stay in the Kingdom without permission or when such

permission expires or is revoked , the competent official will deport such alien out of the Kingdom.

 

The competent official referred to above is defined as follows in Section 4 of the Act:

 

“ Competent Official ” means any officer appointed by the Minister to carry out a function in conformity

with this Act.

 

 

[sustento]

 

Does that make what I said untrue or invalid?

 

Whether someone applied to renew with 9 months remaining or 1, if they applied around the time of the UK passport crisis they'd be forced onto overstay with no valid way to clear it in both instances.  

 

Applying early or late isn't a way to avoid a random event like a backlog. When you write that some may think that's what you were implying.

 

I wasn't posting with regard to overstays. I was simply pointing out that its possible to renew your passport up to 9 months early rather than leaving it till the last minute.

[Maestro]

Whether someone applied to renew with 9 months remaining or 1, if they applied around the time of the UK passport crisis they'd be forced onto overstay with no valid way to clear it in both instances.  

 

Applying early or late isn't a way to avoid a random event like a backlog. When you write that some may think that's what you were implying.

 

I have seen posts by British nationals saying they obtained a temporary passport, or perhaps it was called a temporary travel document, to avoid an overstay in a situation like the one you describe.

 

PS. Got it. The British government calls it an emergency travel document.

An emergency travel document lets you leave another country if you can’t get a new or replacement British passport in time to travel.

...

An emergency travel document allows you to leave the country you’re in and travel to your destination via a maximum of 5 countries.

 

The emergency travel document can also cover a return journey if you’re resident in the country you’re applying from.

 

Edited August 5, 2014 by Maestro
added postscript

[WhamBam]

You can get emergency travel documents from the British embassy. I was told this and given the paperwork to read when I lost my passport before. In that case there is no need to HAVE to have a passport to travel. Thereby blaming the passport crisis in the UK is not really the point, is it?

 

 

An emergency travel document lets you leave another country if you can’t get a new or replacement British passport in time to travel.

 

You can apply for an emergency travel document (sometimes known as an ‘emergency passport’) if you’re a British national outside the UK and your passport has been lost, stolen, damaged or has expired.

 

What an emergency travel document does

 

An emergency travel document allows you to leave the country you’re in and travel to your destination via a maximum of 5 countries.

 

The emergency travel document can also cover a return journey if you’re resident in the country you’re applying from.

 

https://www.gov.uk/emergency-travel-document

 

For UK citizens / holders of UK passports, that about sums it up. No need to dilly-dally about not having a passport.

Edited August 5, 2014 by WhamBam

[chrisinth]

OP, it certainly is a good question to ask, when the new rules/penalties will come into force officially. And I'm sure if anybody knew for sure, it would be at least announced by immigration if not posted on their website.

 

But I would question the reason you asked the question. The writing appears to be on the wall, people staying here legally on long stay visas or extensions are now being told to sign a document that they state they understand the new penalties regarding overstay, so it is certainly not just a rumour.

 

IMHO, anybody in Thailand on an overstay that intends to rectify their situation and hasn't done so already or taken steps to doing so isn't serious about the situation. If they need to leave it to the last minute, or have to wait for an official announcement before taking steps to raise capital or to start planning at that stage deserves what they are about to receive. 

 

If it is humanitarian issues at stake, the process to clear their position should have been done by now to save the distress of family separation issues.

[Ayutthaya69]

THAT'S GOOD FOR THE new rules about Overstay Many foreigner laughing no problem i am on Overstay for 2 years just go back paid 20.000 and come back same day if you want to live in Thailand follow the rules if you dont care about that just go to another country and in 9 years i have 0 days overstay

[Suradit69]

If, when, and in what form the proposed rule of blacklisting for overstay will come into force is still open.

 

The fact that immigration published the proposal for the rule can be considered as the offer of an opportunity to clear an overstay before the rule enters into force at an as yet unknown future date. It is to be expected, but not certain, that the rule will be in the form of a Ministerial Regulation, published in the Royal Gazette, and therefore presumably will take effect 60 days after publication. Nevertheless, people currently on overstay should not to tarry and regularise their stay without delay, not wait until the last moment.

 

"The fact that immigration published the proposal for the rule can be considered as the offer of an opportunity to clear an overstay before the rule enters into force at an as yet unknown future date."

 

Yes, more than fair warning for those who are already breaking the law, regardless of what greater consequences may come into effect later. Unless some overstayer is suffering from some mental incapacity or he's been in a coma, he must have known all along that he was violating the law and, given all the recent discussion, all of these people should have been given a wake-up call to put things right.

 

Misbehavior has its consequences. Even those who are accustomed to nanny state coddling must realize that. Waiting, hoping for some amnesty or general reprieve along with a limp tap on the wrist is simply compounding the arrogant attitude already exhibited toward the law.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Suradit69

[Deacon Bell]

I've never overstayed one day, ever.

 

I thought the actions people should take is pretty clear: Get out now and sort your visa situation out NOW.

[FritsSikkink]

If, when, and in what form the proposed rule of blacklisting for overstay will come into force is still open.
 
The fact that immigration published the proposal for the rule can be considered as the offer of an opportunity to clear an overstay before the rule enters into force at an as yet unknown future date. It is to be expected, but not certain, that the rule will be in the form of a Ministerial Regulation, published in the Royal Gazette, and therefore presumably will take effect 60 days after publication. Nevertheless, people currently on overstay should not to tarry and regularise their stay without delay, not wait until the last moment.

 
Thank you Maestro for your response your "if,when and in what form" pretty much sums up what most including you and me actually know as you say it is still up for proposal!
 
As I have stated earlier wouldn't it be beneficial to all if the immigration department actually published what the criteria is example how long people have and when and if this proposal is given the go that they will introduce an amnesty as at this moment in time it is creating conflicting stories from different people because nobody knows for sure.
 
As you say nothing is certain but reading between the lines after being published in the gazette we will be looking at the end of October? But as the immigration office read this wouldn't it be nice  if only for clarity and to stop a many posts on the subject to come out and issue an official statement that would help people understand what time frame they have as all do not have the funds readily available and many are awaiting new passports 
 
http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/RKJ/index/index.htm

Just get your overstay sorted now instead of complaining you don't know the real date yet.
If you do it now you don't have a problem. the last couple of weeks have been a grace period already.
Why on earth are you waiting?

[iancnx]

This really is a nonsense thread. You are in a period of Amnesty now. Get out quick by any means or enjoy the porridge!

[djayz]

OP, it certainly is a good question to ask, when the new rules/penalties will come into force officially. And I'm sure if anybody knew for sure, it would be at least announced by immigration if not posted on their website.

 

But I would question the reason you asked the question. The writing appears to be on the wall, people staying here legally on long stay visas or extensions are now being told to sign a document that they state they understand the new penalties regarding overstay, so it is certainly not just a rumour.

 

IMHO, anybody in Thailand on an overstay that intends to rectify their situation and hasn't done so already or taken steps to doing so isn't serious about the situation. If they need to leave it to the last minute, or have to wait for an official announcement before taking steps to raise capital or to start planning at that stage deserves what they are about to receive. 

 

If it is humanitarian issues at stake, the process to clear their position should have been done by now to save the distress of family separation issues.

That just about sums it up really... I never understand people who leave these things to the last few days/hours....

[FritsSikkink]

A lot of people could rest easier if they knew just when they needed to get their crap together and get out.

That was at the moment you started to overstay.