The new extension rules for people studying

[Kitsune]

That's why it's a good think that they increase the minimal number of hours to 8.

If somebody studies 8 hours per week the chance that he's a real student is much higher.

The reason immigration officers are looking for fake students is probably because there are so many fake students ?

Please tell me what I shall be wearing for my next ED visa application, because I have no idea what a student (according to Thai immigration) looks like.

I have been studying Japanese but they don't care they just have the numbers of years so they will expect impeccable Thai from me, which I have not, so I better get my gears sorted !

[mataleo]

When I was a student at Excel Language Centre, facing Big C South Road at Pattaya, there where Russian students on ED Visa studying English, and a few Farangs studying Chinese on ED Visa too. Just search on Google.

Thanks, this seems harder to find in BKK from my googling. Pro language doesn't do it, Language express no mention of it

Walen BKK has Chinese but no Ed visa as yet http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727615-walen-school-of-chinese/

Here u go.

They good.

http://www.tlslanguageschool.com/ed-visa

[mataleo]

How do they check you attend classes or not?

Its up to school to keep record ur attendence and present or request?

[kriswillems]

That's why it's a good think that they increase the minimal number of hours to 8.

If somebody studies 8 hours per week the chance that he's a real student is much higher.

The reason immigration officers are looking for fake students is probably because there are so many fake students ?

Please tell me what I shall be wearing for my next ED visa application, because I have no idea what a student (according to Thai immigration) looks like.

I have been studying Japanese but they don't care they just have the numbers of years so they will expect impeccable Thai from me, which I have not, so I better get my gears sorted !

Are you studying Japanese in Thailand? In that case I don't think you've to worry, if you can prove you meet the minimum amount of hours. I don't believe they will test the Thai of somebody studying Japanese.

[mataleo]

I guess immigration was getting extra dough from school for extra services and that, that hit them tho. So i reckon its matter of time to things go way around it...

[stevenl]

100% agree. Those people do much much worse to the image of Thailand than the from now on to be qualified as suspicious "criminal" ed visa people.

ED visa was a good option for foreigners who could not get WP because of the outdated labor law. Those people are educated with successful online business that provides constant cash flow. I really can't see what harm they did so that now they have to be get ridden of. I admit, I'm in this category but I would gladly apply for sole trader status and pay taxes as foreigner online business owner if such concept existed here. There is no way I'd taken away jobs from Thais as my business has nothing to do with Thailand. I could pay the 500k for elite but the sole allowance of staying simply does not have that value.

As the visa options fades away step by step me and the alikes have to leave eventually and the stink fat old chap who married a teenager prostitute out of a bar and who would be nothing in his home country stays here and shares his wisdom and paints a beautiful image of himself and Thailand.

Yes, ED visas were used inappropriately.

Does it matter whether the businesses are successful or not? Thailand is in certain aspects no different from other countries, and if you do not meet the requirements you are not allowed to live here.

Your sneer at others does your argument really no good.

[stevenl]

Evidences as such I don't know but here I read a few reports about people with new ED visa application being refused entry at airport or borders.

Are they all lying ? Even moderators seem to agree it could be true. Some guy said he was refused because he could not understand what the officer asked him because he talked too fast...They say the immigration officers are now "using their discretion" that means anything can happened the guy does what he likes.

I personally did a border run recently and talked to a manager of a visa run company and he confirmed that officers are now acting as they please, and some have refused ED visa to come in whilst all their papers were all in order, the school legit, etc, just because.

If they just THINK you are not a "real" student for whatever reason that might be look/attitude or even just don't like your face or their wife pissed them off that day, and they are in a bad mood, they can deny you entry, they don't have to give any justification to anyone and there is nothing you can do. It's that particular immigration officer's discretion. Even his superior cannot intervene.

So your house, your furniture, may be your pets, partners and life here are gambled each year.

Please use a better example than the guy who after 3 years of learning Thai could not understand a basic sentence and does not know the alphabet.

[mataleo]

100% agree. Those people do much much worse to the image of Thailand than the from now on to be qualified as suspicious "criminal" ed visa people.

ED visa was a good option for foreigners who could not get WP because of the outdated labor law. Those people are educated with successful online business that provides constant cash flow. I really can't see what harm they did so that now they have to be get ridden of. I admit, I'm in this category but I would gladly apply for sole trader status and pay taxes as foreigner online business owner if such concept existed here. There is no way I'd taken away jobs from Thais as my business has nothing to do with Thailand. I could pay the 500k for elite but the sole allowance of staying simply does not have that value.

As the visa options fades away step by step me and the alikes have to leave eventually and the stink fat old chap who married a teenager prostitute out of a bar and who would be nothing in his home country stays here and shares his wisdom and paints a beautiful image of himself and Thailand.

Yes, ED visas were used inappropriately.

Does it matter whether the businesses are successful or not? Thailand is in certain aspects no different from other countries, and if you do not meet the requirements you are not allowed to live here.

Your sneer at others does your argument really no good.

Fish rotten from the head.

Its funny to say that.

Problems starts on top.

Look on thaksin etc. Level of corruption.

ED visa is nothin in the sea of whatever

[itsuptome]

If somebody is really interested in studying Thai he would study much more than 4 hours per week.

The kind of student that studies the minimal amount of hours just to get a visa for Thailand is here for the wrong reasons (not for studying).

In that way, the old, fat, bold guy with the young Thai bride is much more respectable that the fake student.

I don't care what people do with their time as long as they're not hurting anyone else, but statements like this are so far from any conventional sense of ethics that they just blow my mind. This post needs to be featured somewhere.

"In a way, the fat beer-swilling retiree who dates prostitutes is much more respectable than the student who only studies part-time"

Astounding! Only in Thailand! Only on Thaivisa! You heard it here first, folks! May the sun never set on the Order of the Chang Tank Top!

I can't stop laughing at how outrageous this place is. I doubt the Thai government shares this point of view that prostitute-seeking retirees are more desirable guests than part-time students. Like I said, I believe in "live and let live." But if they are tightening up on part-time students, I can't help but wonder if other classes of visa are not far behind.

[lol69]

you are not dealing with a government anymore the military junta want you gone, it wont be hard for them to route out the fakes.

[kriswillems]

Out of pure interest I went to look at 3 language schools last week.

I asked them to see their most difficult book in the ED-visa course system.

The most difficult book was in all school intended for students that study more then 3 years.

In all three of the schools the most difficult book was a joke.

The level of the most difficult book was extremely low.

In one school the most difficult book had almost only English in it, with a few Thai words per page (words not sentences).

What can you expect if you study only a few hours per week and the majority of the students sits in the classroom for the visa only?

Let's be honest, the ED-visa courses are created for distributing visas, not for teaching Thai.

[itsuptome]

fake ed visa users are no longer wanted. you are not welcome here anymore,

I would hazard a guess that old guys who married young Thai women, because they couldn't get a girlfriend in their own country might be next.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking I'd rather see a student walking down the road with a bag of books under his/her arm on the way to school.

Rather than a fat bald headed unshaven guy in a t-shirt that doesn't fit with a young Thai bride on his arm that can not understand a word they say to each other.

One looks perfectly normal, the other turns many a peoples stomach.

100% agree. Those people do much much worse to the image of Thailand than the from now on to be qualified as suspicious "criminal" ed visa people.

ED visa was a good option for foreigners who could not get WP because of the outdated labor law. Those people are educated with successful online business that provides constant cash flow. I really can't see what harm they did so that now they have to be get ridden of. I admit, I'm in this category but I would gladly apply for sole trader status and pay taxes as foreigner online business owner if such concept existed here. There is no way I'd taken away jobs from Thais as my business has nothing to do with Thailand. I could pay the 500k for elite but the sole allowance of staying simply does not have that value.

As the visa options fades away step by step me and the alikes have to leave eventually and the stink fat old chap who married a teenager prostitute out of a bar and who would be nothing in his home country stays here and shares his wisdom and paints a beautiful image of himself and Thailand.

Here's the thing: why would you expect Thai immigration policy to rationally further the best interests of Thailand?

Given the country's history I would expect three things from it

1) To be very protectionist

2) To be very slow to change

3) To occasionally be overridden and rewritten by a bunch of old generals

Which is pretty much what we've got

There are many wonderful things about Thailand, a wise and efficient government is not one of them. It would be fascinating to see the government address the points you have raised re: online workers. I doubt it will happen in the next 15 years. If any government 'gets wise' to online workers and their potential benefits, it will be the western ones first I suspect.

[mataleo]

Look http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/750999-Extension-of-2nd-year-ED-denied-at-Immigration-CM

Extension of 2nd year ED denied at Immigration CM

[Kitsune]

Evidences as such I don't know but here I read a few reports about people with new ED visa application being refused entry at airport or borders.

Are they all lying ? Even moderators seem to agree it could be true. Some guy said he was refused because he could not understand what the officer asked him because he talked too fast...They say the immigration officers are now "using their discretion" that means anything can happened the guy does what he likes.

I personally did a border run recently and talked to a manager of a visa run company and he confirmed that officers are now acting as they please, and some have refused ED visa to come in whilst all their papers were all in order, the school legit, etc, just because.

If they just THINK you are not a "real" student for whatever reason that might be look/attitude or even just don't like your face or their wife pissed them off that day, and they are in a bad mood, they can deny you entry, they don't have to give any justification to anyone and there is nothing you can do. It's that particular immigration officer's discretion. Even his superior cannot intervene.

So your house, your furniture, may be your pets, partners and life here are gambled each year.

Please use a better example than the guy who after 3 years of learning Thai could not understand a basic sentence and does not know the alphabet.

A Russian woman, first time ED visa application, papers legit, school legit, first time application refused.

No reason given.

My friend is near fluent in Thai but he does not understand anything my neighbor says (local Thai apparently).

If I judge some Thai student's English ability in Scotland (equivalent to Nongkhai) he would not understand a word a Scotsman would say.

I personally study Japanese but they don't care they assume and they always test me on THAI

For them (MOE/Immigration), I lived here a few years so I should know Thai anyway, plus they dont have any japanese speaking officer, so I am to be tested in Thai whether I like it or not.

[kriswillems]

Evidences as such I don't know but here I read a few reports about people with new ED visa application being refused entry at airport or borders.

Are they all lying ? Even moderators seem to agree it could be true. Some guy said he was refused because he could not understand what the officer asked him because he talked too fast...They say the immigration officers are now "using their discretion" that means anything can happened the guy does what he likes.

I personally did a border run recently and talked to a manager of a visa run company and he confirmed that officers are now acting as they please, and some have refused ED visa to come in whilst all their papers were all in order, the school legit, etc, just because.

If they just THINK you are not a "real" student for whatever reason that might be look/attitude or even just don't like your face or their wife pissed them off that day, and they are in a bad mood, they can deny you entry, they don't have to give any justification to anyone and there is nothing you can do. It's that particular immigration officer's discretion. Even his superior cannot intervene.

So your house, your furniture, may be your pets, partners and life here are gambled each year.

Please use a better example than the guy who after 3 years of learning Thai could not understand a basic sentence and does not know the alphabet.

A Russian woman, first time ED visa application, papers legit, school legit, first time application refused.

No reason given.

My friend is near fluent in Thai but he does not understand anything my neighbor says (local Thai apparently).

If I judge some Thai student's English ability in Scotland (equivalent to Nongkhai) he would not understand a word a Scotsman would say.

I personally study Japanese but they don't care they assume and they always test me on THAI

For them (MOE/Immigration), I lived here a few years so I should know Thai anyway, plus they dont have any japanese speaking officer, so I am to be tested in Thai whether I like it or not.

Are you sure they are really testing you on Thai?

I get an extension on my marriage visa every year and the officers love to show me the legal the documents in Thai and ask me to read them out loud (like the paper in which your wife declares you live with her).

I can read it and it usually bring a smile to their face, but I wouldn't think about it as a test.

I think they are smart enough to know they can't refuse you a visa because your Thai is not good enough while you're studying Japanese. I wouldn't be worried if I was you.

Edited August 12, 2014 by kriswillems

[Kitsune]

It's the officer's discretion.

They do as they please.

When renewing my course last year, the MOE tested me IN THAI.

I asked he school the reason, the girl said it's just a face thing,they obviously can't test me on JP so they still show they're the boss and I am at their mercy somehow, and I have to pretend to be learning Thai for 10 minutes and smile/wai them,and play the model Thai student part with all the polite stuff.

You would think it's a farce, really, but the tone is given :"When are you going back to your country?" Was one of the questions,so it's no joke

[kriswillems]

Don't worry, Kitsune. What you've experienced is just a face saving thing, like you said.

They would never fail you!

They just want to go back to their wife and kids in the evening and get the job done.

They choose you for the test and you played along.

In the end everyone is happy.

You pass the test, and they can go back home.

Edited August 12, 2014 by kriswillems

[paz]

Don't worry, Kitsune. What you've experienced is just a face saving thing, like you said.

They would never fail you!

Sure. Like in

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/750999-extension-of-2nd-year-ed-denied-at-immigration-cm/

Keep your pink glasses in a good case...

[Kitsune]

Don't worry, Kitsune. What you've experienced is just a face saving thing, like you said.

They would never fail you!

They just want to go back to their wife and kids in the evening and get the job done.

They choose you for the test and you played along.

In the end everyone is happy.

You pass the test, and they can go back home.

Thanks Kris that's nice of you to say

But I think it was true until last year

Now the army is in power.

[MikeN]

When I was a student at Excel Language Centre, facing Big C South Road at Pattaya, there where Russian students on ED Visa studying English, and a few Farangs studying Chinese on ED Visa too. Just search on Google.

Thanks, this seems harder to find in BKK from my googling. Pro language doesn't do it, Language express no mention of it

Walen BKK has Chinese but no Ed visa as yet http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727615-walen-school-of-chinese/

Well from the Pro Language brochure I've got they DO have an English course which qualifies for an ED visa.

[Kitsune]

When I was a student at Excel Language Centre, facing Big C South Road at Pattaya, there where Russian students on ED Visa studying English, and a few Farangs studying Chinese on ED Visa too. Just search on Google.

Thanks, this seems harder to find in BKK from my googling. Pro language doesn't do it, Language express no mention of it

Walen BKK has Chinese but no Ed visa as yet http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727615-walen-school-of-chinese/

Well from the Pro Language brochure I've got they DO have an English course which qualifies for an ED visa.

Yes but beware English course ED visa are 9 months only

[JB300]

that elite card is gonna look a whole lot more attractive now..

tuition 60,000

edvisa + travel 5000

extensions x 3 5700

travel 50 x 4 x 50 weeks 10000

total 80,700

plus of course 8 x 50 weeks tuition = 400 hours of your life

ouch

This has got me thinking that even though I'll only be 2 days shy of 49 when I finish working in Singapore (though last 3 months is gardening leave, which I can spend wherever I want) the difference between the costs above & the 100k pa for the Thai Elite card feels worth it for the extra piece of mind having a 5 year visa brings (I don't subscribe to the fact that they could cancel it, history suggests this won't happen & any changes will be grandfathered in).

Only downside is that I would like to learn Thai if I'm going to live there so would need to pay for the schooling anyway.

Anybody have a similar estimate for the costs of a retirement visa for 1 year & any thoughts on whether you'd be able to squeeze (almost) 6 years out of the Thai Elite card by doing a Visa run close to the end of the 5 year Visa?

Edited August 12, 2014 by JB300

[Bellacissa]

I really expected this thread to light up a lot more than it has based on the number of people that supposedly game the ED system. Maybe there aren't quite as many people using the ED in a manner in which it was never intended as some thought there were?

I mean, if you're actually using it to learn Thai, there's nothing in these changes to get your shorts in a bunch about. So, in light of the lack of expected outrage, I'm wondering if most of the people using the ED really are going to class and learning a word or two?

[ColdSingha]

I really expected this thread to light up a lot more than it has based on the number of people that supposedly game the ED system. Maybe there aren't quite as many people using the ED in a manner in which it was never intended as some thought there were?

I mean, if you're actually using it to learn Thai, there's nothing in these changes to get your shorts in a bunch about. So, in light of the lack of expected outrage, I'm wondering if most of the people using the ED really are going to class and learning a word or two?

yeah i actually thought the same but its barely stayed on the front page, i guess much more people were working on visa exempts and immigration has got it about right

[lol69]

people use the Ed visa to stay here and work illegally online, even if they attend the class they are still breaking the terms of the ed visa by funding their stay by that illegally produced income

[Bellacissa]

people use the Ed visa to stay here and work illegally online, even if they attend the class they are still breaking the terms of the ed visa by funding their stay by that illegally produced income

I'm sure there are instances of that, but I really think most of the people trying to game the system were using the visa exempt / border run route. Why would they pay 25k baht a year to a language school if they could get the visa for free just by border hopping every few months? Economically, the visa exempt scheme makes more sense.

Like I said, the rule changes really aren't that big of a deal for those using the visa correctly. But, they might be for those that are misusing it. I fully expected those people to come out of the woodwork and protest the new requirements.

[YuliyaSerg]

Not understood at all, if I want to study in very ordinary language school in Pattaya, now in such schools it is possible to study only 90 days,since the visa is given only 90 days and no further renewals??? Then why is it anyone need??? How can a person learn Thai for 90 days?? Not everyone can afford to study at the Institute for 7000-10000 per month. They would close more than 90% of schools in Pattaya and in other provinces. Because of the quiet ridiculous nowawadays may suffer a huge number of normal students who came to learn and to spend money in their country. Already tourists who come once a year, afraid to go to them to relax, because their ridiculous rules they have intimidated and also a large number of tourists and people who had absolutely no relation to illegal work. What I find another country to travel and wintering!

[Mario2008]

You get the visa for 90 days and can get extensions (renewals) every 90 days. But after 1 year study you have to leave the country and apply for a new ED-visa.

[mataleo]

When I was a student at Excel Language Centre, facing Big C South Road at Pattaya, there where Russian students on ED Visa studying English, and a few Farangs studying Chinese on ED Visa too. Just search on Google.

Thanks, this seems harder to find in BKK from my googling. Pro language doesn't do it, Language express no mention of it

Walen BKK has Chinese but no Ed visa as yet http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727615-walen-school-of-chinese/

Well from the Pro Language brochure I've got they DO have an English course which qualifies for an ED visa.

Yes but beware English course ED visa are 9 months only

Depends on school licence.

School i talked to eng. No different to study thai at all...

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Here is the rub.

If the MOE just wanted to weed out bad schools and students with new MOE Certifications then they could do it without making students leave the country.

The reason they can't just let Immigration grant visa extensions or new visa's is that they are so corrupt they will start selling and profiting from corruption.

They have to presume that Immigration is as corrupt and untrustworthy as the rest of society.

It's a sorry state of affairs and shows how far they are from ever being a rule of law system.