What makes 'Thai-style democracy' globally palatable?

[tbthailand]

IFor a moment while reading posts here I thought some confused a Military Dictatorship with the NCPO.

I guess I just need more coffee.

you seem a bit confused all the time, but try the coffee anyway.

[tbthailand]

You know what stands out a mile with you lot on this thread---you all follow the same rhetoric, and seldom do you speak about the wrongs of your defunct government. If you included some once in a while it's worth talking -but I have said before you lot are a waste of time. same as PTP was.

Corruption and/or incompetence in government gets sorted out at the polling stations and via the ballot, which is where the violent goons were Feb 2nd to prevent the sorting out from occurring.

The anti-democracy people around here made themselves clear when they supported the goons on Feb 2nd.

Before and since.

The frantic push for Feb2 elections only showed the non-democratic intent the Yingluck Administration had. They thought to get another mandate to ignore all Thai and only concentrate on helping their great thinker.

The anti-democracy people here seem those who confuse elections with democracy.

your 'frantic push' was the process as described in the 2007 constitution.... if you want to call following the constitution non-democratic, then the rest of us can stop listening to you.

[northernjohn]

1. true.

2. Not talking about past election results-----how many times have the ruling party been banned ??? how many of it's members have been banned?? How many times has the party been slung out ??? we are talking Thaksin here.

3 Past military interventions were near for the same reasons.

4 Look up what Yingluck did, she what ???

5 I will be here, carry on with your rhetoric/agenda and your stay could well be shorter than mine. Huddle up close to the 7 of you who are the strongest and get energized.

You still haven't explained why you need to base your arguments on falsehoods:

1) Why did you tell me that the army did not kick out the last government, when they quite clearly did? Why do you need to put this falsehood forward to support your position?

2) Did you research past military dictatorships in Thailand yet? What reasons did they give to overthrow civilian rule? Did these past military dictatorships turn out to be clean or corrupt? Why are you clinging to a falsehood that causes you to so vigorously refute any legitimate doubt as to why this one will be any different? If the junta is at ease with itself and its noble motives, then why are the majority of the NLA from the military, and why do they need to censor the press?

On that last point in particular, there is still perplexity around why you seem to trust unconditionally a military dictatorship that will censor news of what it does before it ever reaches you. Why do you think it needs to do that, and how will you be able to reasonably compare it with what it replaced?

Of course, I forgot, you can go home if it doesn't work out. It's easy to support the risky and irreversible course when it's someone else's country, right?

You know what stands out a mile with you lot on this thread---you all follow the same rhetoric, and seldom do you speak about the wrongs of your defunct government. If you included some once in a while it's worth talking -but I have said before you lot are a waste of time. same as PTP was.

All I was doing was asking perfectly legitimate questions, so that I could better understand the rationale behind your argument.

For one who is so vocal in condemning all opposing views, I'm rather surprised to hear that this cop out "I'm wasting my valuable time with you lot" is all that you've got left to say.

You still haven't explained why you need to base your arguments on falsehoods:

1) Why did you tell me that the army did not kick out the last government, when they quite clearly did? Why do you need to put this falsehood forward to support your position?

Can't answer that one as I have never seen such a post from him.

2) Did you research past military dictatorships in Thailand yet? What reasons did they give to overthrow civilian rule? Did these past military dictatorships turn out to be clean or corrupt? Why are you clinging to a falsehood that causes you to so vigorously refute any legitimate doubt as to why this one will be any different? If the junta is at ease with itself and its noble motives, then why are the majority of the NLA from the military, and why do they need to censor the press?

To what purpose would he search the past histories of coup's?

These are different people and they have looked into the past histories and know what mistakes not to make. In short unlike you they are looking to the future where you are looking to the past.

The Majority of the NLA are from the military because they are not politicians looking to feather their own dynasty.

The press is being censored in that they are not allowed to print libel falsehoods. Yes it is not a free press but then again when has it been. The press should have been stomped on long ago for the nonsense they put out.

On that last point in particular, there is still perplexity around why you seem to trust unconditionally a military dictatorship that will censor news of what it does before it ever reaches you. Why do you think it needs to do that, and how will you be able to reasonably compare it with what it replaced?

Read the Bangkok Post they are always talking about things the government is going to do.

The Nation and Thai Visa are not exactly great places to get accurate news. The Bangkok Post may have it's glitches but on a scale of 1 to 10 it is 6 where as the Nation is 2. You can figure the Thai Vista score out by looking at their main source of information.

Of course, I forgot, you can go home if it doesn't work out. It's easy to support the risky and irreversible course when it's someone else's country, right?

Yes we can all go home if it doesn't work out but from all the signs in three months they have made Thailand a much better country in 3 months than any reasonable person could expect. Plus they are still in the starting phase. That is the obvious things. The new Government will have a new Prime Minister soon and will be able to get down to the less important things. That is not to mean that all the important things are fixed now.

Not sure why you would say it is irreversible? After all they have turned the corruption led government around. Nothing is irreversible.

[heybruce]

how can what is basically a dictatorship be called democracy/

Are you talking about Thailand, the US, or the EU.

Correct me if I'm wrong; don't elections in the US and EU countries determine who serves in the elected offices? Aren't the most powerful government offices elected?

,,,and you selectively edited out my answer to that exact question which was:

Are you talking about Thailand, the US, or the EU or just most countries.

Juntas, rule by Executive Order, Technocrats or rule by unelected bureaucrats and czars. None of which fits the definition of democracy.

Please don't selectively edit my posts in the future. Thanks!

<Forum rule #16> You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

I didn't edit your post, you did. I posted reply #138 at 20:35 to a post you made earlier, and I didn't edit the post. The post you refer to is post #136 which clearly shows it was edited at 20:47, after I posted my reply.

Please be careful with your accusations.

[heybruce]

You overlooked one thing----answer in NORMAL circumstances.

In normal circumstances we are also guaranteed elected officials that have no expertise in their respective fields.

That's a major fault with "Democracies".

You clearly don't have any faith in democracy. Winston Churchill apparently had his own reservations, prompting him to say 'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.'

What form of government do you advocate as a preferable alternative to democracy?

This interim government, is preferable to Shin/PTP Thaksin style Thai democracy--if you wish to have a decent democratic democracy here this place has to be rid of the past swindlers. cleaned up and next year elections.

The interim government is preferable to you, the Thai people haven't been asked their preference. Your unshakeable faith in the benign intentions and incorruptibility of the military is misguided, to say the least.

[Publicus]

IFor a moment while reading posts here I thought some confused a Military Dictatorship with the NCPO.

I guess I just need more coffee.

Corruption and/or incompetence in government gets sorted out at the polling stations and via the ballot, which is where the violent goons were Feb 2nd to prevent the sorting out from occurring.

The anti-democracy people around here made themselves clear when they supported the goons on Feb 2nd.

Before and since.

The frantic push for Feb2 elections only showed the non-democratic intent the Yingluck Administration had. They thought to get another mandate to ignore all Thai and only concentrate on helping their great thinker.

The anti-democracy people here seem those who confuse elections with democracy.

You still need more coffee yet.

Easy on the sugar.

[3NUMBAS]

coshes made of foam ??

[Thanet]

This interim government, is preferable to Shin/PTP Thaksin style Thai democracy--if you wish to have a decent democratic democracy here this place has to be rid of the past swindlers. cleaned up and next year elections.

What do you mean when you say "preferable"?

Preferable to you? Or preferable to the majority of the citizenry?

You are not even Thai.

[gemini81]

Plutocracy of fiefdom as are most nations if one is to be honest, rather than paint pictures of lofty little marketing names like 'free' or 'democratic' or 'open.'

[Thanet]

OTT my valuable time you said--I didn't.

Sorry but your legitimate questions come with the same rhetoric as the others on this thread ---read them the ones that oppose my thoughts, interesting are they not.

I do not condemn all opposing views only the ones on an agenda, it's unhealthy to me. This to me is one view.

If you people leave out all that has happened with military in the past, and looked at the present situation Thailand is experiencing, it is better at this time than any time in the last 3 years, if the clan here argue with that there problem I don't have a problem at all I for the time being are going with the flow.

Do you think most posters are so crazy as to have not noticed this group, Near all are just on political army snide comments and entering into the same arguments day in day out.

Your questions may be valid but they come at the wrong time among all the other scathing attacks I endured.

Ah - got it.

You condemn views with what you perceive to be an "agenda", but your own views are OK even tough they would necessarily have an opposing "agenda"? That sounds rather unreasonable, don't you think? And for one who seems to relish attacking others, it's also rather suspect that you would accuse me of having asked you questions at the wrong time, after "all the other scathing attacks you have endured".

And what makes you think that things are better than the past, and will remain so into the future once the honeymoon is over? Military dictatorships always start off nicely. Since all the media is censored anyway, I suppose that the Junta told you that everything will be fine, right? Or do you have some more reliable source of information, now that there is no news any more?

How trusting you are!

Agenda---this thread reeks of it.

My own views are good governance, simple. really.

You admit there is a honeymoon WOW. How trusting I am you say---- what a joke you trust the SHINS style of Thai democracy----but do not trust the clean -up. If Popeye was running the job I would give him my trust over your clans rhetoric any day.

One of your faithful has just posted a decent post to me, NOT the anti Army rubbish cause the people didn't elect them bull.

You keeps using the word 'agenda' as if it somehow grants you alone the right to base arguments on falsehoods, such as denying that the army kicked out the last government.

I agree that Thaksin was far from perfect - he was like a Thai version of Silvio Berlusconi. An oligarch as much as he was a democrat.

The point I am making is that the people should have been allowed to kick out Thaksin by proper democratic process, enshrined in Thailand's constitutional law. The army has just as bad. if not worse a record when they are in power, and they broke constitutional law by seizing power in the first place.

Further, the army are for fighting foreign wars. What on earth are they doing meddling in politics anyway?

Did you do any research on military dictatorships in Thailand yet? Tell us what you discovered please.

If you are saying that having an opinion equates to having an agenda, then we are all guilty of that. As human being, we have opinions, but arguments should be based on the truth, rather than invented falsehoods.

[ginjag]

This interim government, is preferable to Shin/PTP Thaksin style Thai democracy--if you wish to have a decent democratic democracy here this place has to be rid of the past swindlers. cleaned up and next year elections.

The interim government is preferable to you, the Thai people haven't been asked their preference. Your unshakeable faith in the benign intentions and incorruptibility of the military is misguided, to say the least.

Sorry mate, these measures had to be taken after your PTP f things up. Yinglucks effort to get a quick election before the government wrong were in the open failed, Thaksin was stopped in his tracks for a clear record and return. (sigh of relief).

Your agenda is the misguided thing here. So you wanted the Thai people via Yingluck to get her back in ready for Thaksins return---sick.

A good thing came out of all this Thai people are now much more aware of how PTP ran a non democratic government, Wait guys your turn will come when free fair elections are on the cards, Will PTP be on the winners list---no chance. All we need here is a good government - your idea of democracy Thai style is pathetic. Other countries we see have the same problem, and to add tell me where there is a government in the world even clean that is democratic ??? This word democracy is so loose it's unbelievable.

[ginjag]

OTT my valuable time you said--I didn't.

Sorry but your legitimate questions come with the same rhetoric as the others on this thread ---read them the ones that oppose my thoughts, interesting are they not.

I do not condemn all opposing views only the ones on an agenda, it's unhealthy to me. This to me is one view.

If you people leave out all that has happened with military in the past, and looked at the present situation Thailand is experiencing, it is better at this time than any time in the last 3 years, if the clan here argue with that there problem I don't have a problem at all I for the time being are going with the flow.

Do you think most posters are so crazy as to have not noticed this group, Near all are just on political army snide comments and entering into the same arguments day in day out.

Your questions may be valid but they come at the wrong time among all the other scathing attacks I endured.

Ah - got it.

You condemn views with what you perceive to be an "agenda", but your own views are OK even tough they would necessarily have an opposing "agenda"? That sounds rather unreasonable, don't you think? And for one who seems to relish attacking others, it's also rather suspect that you would accuse me of having asked you questions at the wrong time, after "all the other scathing attacks you have endured".

And what makes you think that things are better than the past, and will remain so into the future once the honeymoon is over? Military dictatorships always start off nicely. Since all the media is censored anyway, I suppose that the Junta told you that everything will be fine, right? Or do you have some more reliable source of information, now that there is no news any more?

How trusting you are!

Agenda---this thread reeks of it.

My own views are good governance, simple. really.

You admit there is a honeymoon WOW. How trusting I am you say---- what a joke you trust the SHINS style of Thai democracy----but do not trust the clean -up. If Popeye was running the job I would give him my trust over your clans rhetoric any day.

One of your faithful has just posted a decent post to me, NOT the anti Army rubbish cause the people didn't elect them bull.

You keeps using the word 'agenda' as if it somehow grants you alone the right to base arguments on falsehoods, such as denying that the army kicked out the last government.

I agree that Thaksin was far from perfect - he was like a Thai version of Silvio Berlusconi. An oligarch as much as he was a democrat.

The point I am making is that the people should have been allowed to kick out Thaksin by proper democratic process, enshrined in Thailand's constitutional law. The army has just as bad. if not worse a record when they are in power, and they broke constitutional law by seizing power in the first place.

Further, the army are for fighting foreign wars. What on earth are they doing meddling in politics anyway?

Did you do any research on military dictatorships in Thailand yet? Tell us what you discovered please.

If you are saying that having an opinion equates to having an agenda, then we are all guilty of that. As human being, we have opinions, but arguments should be based on the truth, rather than invented falsehoods.

Agenda is the apt word, I proved it in a thread, it brought the said people with one out, all saying near word for word the same answers-all relating to elections --whatever the result it will be fine as the people have voted--same as PTP were elected--further elections were not to be had until a clean up and awareness were established. If you do not agree , then an agenda comes into it.

Politics is a business, in your business your committee nearly bankrupted you do you get them back into office---no you sack them period.

Agenda---with a committee meeting is a preplanned list for that meeting prior to the meeting date. Meeting open, minutes of the last meeting read out, agenda of items pre arranged to be questioned, and finally any other business, meeting closed---agenda=pre programmed items.

Did I do any research into military ????? what you think I am an historian, all dog muck smells some muck doesn't smell --ok.

Didn't PTP break that law with the amnesty bill and improper governance ???

I always get answers avoiding valid points, re the running of Yinglucks government, all the replies are side tracking and piercing questions into my Agenda---Ha Ha I do not have one I want good governance that's all. I had to aim for that in office in the UK. my idea for the army to take control in the UK is a no no. here at this time essential.

Your Thaksins police force were negative in all the uprisings--reds yellows you name it why ??? useless that's why---the army came in this time not with intention just to try to get Thaksins regime out but to stop gang warfare and bloodshed battles on the streets of Thailand. TELL ME WHO ELSE could have stopped this. AN ELECTION--pathetic. keep up your battle to get the army out. chok dee

[ginjag]

This interim government, is preferable to Shin/PTP Thaksin style Thai democracy--if you wish to have a decent democratic democracy here this place has to be rid of the past swindlers. cleaned up and next year elections.

What do you mean when you say "preferable"?

Preferable to you? Or preferable to the majority of the citizenry?

You are not even Thai.

Hey come on see sense. Preferable to Thais --in the street now, your blinkers are hindering you, How do you know about Majority NOW this day ?? Majority to YOU. I live here have a say on Thai visa, been here 33 years, but to you I have no idea about military rule over the period--my views on the Thaksin style governing are flawed, I am not Thai as you say, so what is your point, I should not even comment ??? but you are not Thai but it's ok to oppose anything the army does ???

[Eric Loh]

This interim government, is preferable to Shin/PTP Thaksin style Thai democracy--if you wish to have a decent democratic democracy here this place has to be rid of the past swindlers. cleaned up and next year elections.

The interim government is preferable to you, the Thai people haven't been asked their preference. Your unshakeable faith in the benign intentions and incorruptibility of the military is misguided, to say the least.

Sorry mate, these measures had to be taken after your PTP f things up. Yinglucks effort to get a quick election before the government wrong were in the open failed, Thaksin was stopped in his tracks for a clear record and return. (sigh of relief).

Your agenda is the misguided thing here. So you wanted the Thai people via Yingluck to get her back in ready for Thaksins return---sick.

A good thing came out of all this Thai people are now much more aware of how PTP ran a non democratic government, Wait guys your turn will come when free fair elections are on the cards, Will PTP be on the winners list---no chance. All we need here is a good government - your idea of democracy Thai style is pathetic. Other countries we see have the same problem, and to add tell me where there is a government in the world even clean that is democratic ??? This word democracy is so loose it's unbelievable.

There is really no quick election. Parliment was dissolved on 9 Dec and the constitution required a time frame of 60 days to hold the next election. The govenment stretched as far as possibly can by having the election on 2 Feb.

89% of the pooling stations operated without any disruption. Out of 68 provinces which voted, only 9 provinces in the South and Bangkok were disrupted. The killer blow came from the constitution court ruling to void the election as " it was not completed in a day". Rather lame ruling considering the well know fact that polling stations were disrupted and that the court has no respect of the majority who voted.

[tbthailand]

This interim government, is preferable to Shin/PTP Thaksin style Thai democracy--if you wish to have a decent democratic democracy here this place has to be rid of the past swindlers. cleaned up and next year elections.

What do you mean when you say "preferable"?

Preferable to you? Or preferable to the majority of the citizenry?

You are not even Thai.

Hey come on see sense. Preferable to Thais --in the street now, your blinkers are hindering you, How do you know about Majority NOW this day ?? Majority to YOU. I live here have a say on Thai visa, been here 33 years, but to you I have no idea about military rule over the period--my views on the Thaksin style governing are flawed, I am not Thai as you say, so what is your point, I should not even comment ??? but you are not Thai but it's ok to oppose anything the army does ???

"How do you know about Majority NOW this day ?? "

Elections

[ginjag]

This interim government, is preferable to Shin/PTP Thaksin style Thai democracy--if you wish to have a decent democratic democracy here this place has to be rid of the past swindlers. cleaned up and next year elections.

The interim government is preferable to you, the Thai people haven't been asked their preference. Your unshakeable faith in the benign intentions and incorruptibility of the military is misguided, to say the least.

Sorry mate, these measures had to be taken after your PTP f things up. Yinglucks effort to get a quick election before the government wrong were in the open failed, Thaksin was stopped in his tracks for a clear record and return. (sigh of relief).

Your agenda is the misguided thing here. So you wanted the Thai people via Yingluck to get her back in ready for Thaksins return---sick.

A good thing came out of all this Thai people are now much more aware of how PTP ran a non democratic government, Wait guys your turn will come when free fair elections are on the cards, Will PTP be on the winners list---no chance. All we need here is a good government - your idea of democracy Thai style is pathetic. Other countries we see have the same problem, and to add tell me where there is a government in the world even clean that is democratic ??? This word democracy is so loose it's unbelievable.

There is really no quick election. Parliment was dissolved on 9 Dec and the constitution required a time frame of 60 days to hold the next election. The govenment stretched as far as possibly can by having the election on 2 Feb.

89% of the pooling stations operated without any disruption. Out of 68 provinces which voted, only 9 provinces in the South and Bangkok were disrupted. The killer blow came from the constitution court ruling to void the election as " it was not completed in a day". Rather lame ruling considering the well know fact that polling stations were disrupted and that the court has no respect of the majority who voted.

Answer to all your clans rhetoric had the sick diabolical PTP had governed with Thailand at heart non of this would have happened.

Now your arguing the hind leg off a donkey about the army. get real.

[ginjag]

This interim government, is preferable to Shin/PTP Thaksin style Thai democracy--if you wish to have a decent democratic democracy here this place has to be rid of the past swindlers. cleaned up and next year elections.

What do you mean when you say "preferable"?

Preferable to you? Or preferable to the majority of the citizenry?

You are not even Thai.

Hey come on see sense. Preferable to Thais --in the street now, your blinkers are hindering you, How do you know about Majority NOW this day ?? Majority to YOU. I live here have a say on Thai visa, been here 33 years, but to you I have no idea about military rule over the period--my views on the Thaksin style governing are flawed, I am not Thai as you say, so what is your point, I should not even comment ??? but you are not Thai but it's ok to oppose anything the army does ???

"How do you know about Majority NOW this day ?? "

Elections

You keep speaking about the old 3 years ago majority not me. go play in the garden because if you cannot accept PTP failure that is where you deserve, why be in denial --still and now ?? you people are insatiable.

[ginjag]

This interim government, is preferable to Shin/PTP Thaksin style Thai democracy--if you wish to have a decent democratic democracy here this place has to be rid of the past swindlers. cleaned up and next year elections.

The interim government is preferable to you, the Thai people haven't been asked their preference. Your unshakeable faith in the benign intentions and incorruptibility of the military is misguided, to say the least.

Sorry mate, these measures had to be taken after your PTP f things up. Yinglucks effort to get a quick election before the government wrong were in the open failed, Thaksin was stopped in his tracks for a clear record and return. (sigh of relief).

Your agenda is the misguided thing here. So you wanted the Thai people via Yingluck to get her back in ready for Thaksins return---sick.

A good thing came out of all this Thai people are now much more aware of how PTP ran a non democratic government, Wait guys your turn will come when free fair elections are on the cards, Will PTP be on the winners list---no chance. All we need here is a good government - your idea of democracy Thai style is pathetic. Other countries we see have the same problem, and to add tell me where there is a government in the world even clean that is democratic ??? This word democracy is so loose it's unbelievable.

There is really no quick election. Parliment was dissolved on 9 Dec and the constitution required a time frame of 60 days to hold the next election. The govenment stretched as far as possibly can by having the election on 2 Feb.

89% of the pooling stations operated without any disruption. Out of 68 provinces which voted, only 9 provinces in the South and Bangkok were disrupted. The killer blow came from the constitution court ruling to void the election as " it was not completed in a day". Rather lame ruling considering the well know fact that polling stations were disrupted and that the court has no respect of the majority who voted.

The government were ( stretched) your word------ because of diabolical governing. have a meeting between you few and come back with something new---good idea.

[Thanet]

You keeps using the word 'agenda' as if it somehow grants you alone the right to base arguments on falsehoods, such as denying that the army kicked out the last government.

I agree that Thaksin was far from perfect - he was like a Thai version of Silvio Berlusconi. An oligarch as much as he was a democrat.

The point I am making is that the people should have been allowed to kick out Thaksin by proper democratic process, enshrined in Thailand's constitutional law. The army has just as bad. if not worse a record when they are in power, and they broke constitutional law by seizing power in the first place.

Further, the army are for fighting foreign wars. What on earth are they doing meddling in politics anyway?

Did you do any research on military dictatorships in Thailand yet? Tell us what you discovered please.

If you are saying that having an opinion equates to having an agenda, then we are all guilty of that. As human being, we have opinions, but arguments should be based on the truth, rather than invented falsehoods.

Agenda is the apt word, I proved it in a thread, it brought the said people with one out, all saying near word for word the same answers-all relating to elections --whatever the result it will be fine as the people have voted--same as PTP were elected--further elections were not to be had until a clean up and awareness were established. If you do not agree , then an agenda comes into it.

Politics is a business, in your business your committee nearly bankrupted you do you get them back into office---no you sack them period.

Agenda---with a committee meeting is a preplanned list for that meeting prior to the meeting date. Meeting open, minutes of the last meeting read out, agenda of items pre arranged to be questioned, and finally any other business, meeting closed---agenda=pre programmed items.

Did I do any research into military ????? what you think I am an historian, all dog muck smells some muck doesn't smell --ok.

Didn't PTP break that law with the amnesty bill and improper governance ???

I always get answers avoiding valid points, re the running of Yinglucks government, all the replies are side tracking and piercing questions into my Agenda---Ha Ha I do not have one I want good governance that's all. I had to aim for that in office in the UK. my idea for the army to take control in the UK is a no no. here at this time essential.

Your Thaksins police force were negative in all the uprisings--reds yellows you name it why ??? useless that's why---the army came in this time not with intention just to try to get Thaksins regime out but to stop gang warfare and bloodshed battles on the streets of Thailand. TELL ME WHO ELSE could have stopped this. AN ELECTION--pathetic. keep up your battle to get the army out. chok dee

The Thai military is a business too, and if you've been here 33 years you must either be working for the army propaganda machine or have your head in the sand not to know that, coz you talk like you just got off the plane.

Just look at the history of corrupt military governments in Thailand (which you refuse to do, because it would completely undermine your specious argument). By ignoring historical precedent on one side, but not the other side, what is your agenda?

You say that bad politicians should "be sacked, period". I agree, and this is why we have democratic elections. Who will "sack the military, period", if they make mistakes? The people have been deprived of this basic right.

And you talk of all this clean up and awareness. How will you know what's clean and aware when there's is no news any more? After all, you used the free press to inform yourself of all Thaksin's wrongdoings. Doesn't it bother you that there is no free press to find out for yourself whether this lot is doing any better?

I suppose that Thai TV and the army happy channel give you all the news you need to know now?

Edited August 15, 2014 by Thanet

[ginjag]

You keeps using the word 'agenda' as if it somehow grants you alone the right to base arguments on falsehoods, such as denying that the army kicked out the last government.

I agree that Thaksin was far from perfect - he was like a Thai version of Silvio Berlusconi. An oligarch as much as he was a democrat.

The point I am making is that the people should have been allowed to kick out Thaksin by proper democratic process, enshrined in Thailand's constitutional law. The army has just as bad. if not worse a record when they are in power, and they broke constitutional law by seizing power in the first place.

Further, the army are for fighting foreign wars. What on earth are they doing meddling in politics anyway?

Did you do any research on military dictatorships in Thailand yet? Tell us what you discovered please.

If you are saying that having an opinion equates to having an agenda, then we are all guilty of that. As human being, we have opinions, but arguments should be based on the truth, rather than invented falsehoods.

Agenda is the apt word, I proved it in a thread, it brought the said people with one out, all saying near word for word the same answers-all relating to elections --whatever the result it will be fine as the people have voted--same as PTP were elected--further elections were not to be had until a clean up and awareness were established. If you do not agree , then an agenda comes into it.

Politics is a business, in your business your committee nearly bankrupted you do you get them back into office---no you sack them period.

Agenda---with a committee meeting is a preplanned list for that meeting prior to the meeting date. Meeting open, minutes of the last meeting read out, agenda of items pre arranged to be questioned, and finally any other business, meeting closed---agenda=pre programmed items.

Did I do any research into military ????? what you think I am an historian, all dog muck smells some muck doesn't smell --ok.

Didn't PTP break that law with the amnesty bill and improper governance ???

I always get answers avoiding valid points, re the running of Yinglucks government, all the replies are side tracking and piercing questions into my Agenda---Ha Ha I do not have one I want good governance that's all. I had to aim for that in office in the UK. my idea for the army to take control in the UK is a no no. here at this time essential.

Your Thaksins police force were negative in all the uprisings--reds yellows you name it why ??? useless that's why---the army came in this time not with intention just to try to get Thaksins regime out but to stop gang warfare and bloodshed battles on the streets of Thailand. TELL ME WHO ELSE could have stopped this. AN ELECTION--pathetic. keep up your battle to get the army out. chok dee

The Thai military is a business too, and if you've been here 33 years you must either be working for the army propaganda machine or have your head in the sand not to know that, coz you talk like you just got off the plane.

Just look at the history of corrupt military governments in Thailand (which you refuse to do, because it would completely undermine your specious argument). By ignoring historical precedent on one side, but not the other side, what is your agenda?

You say that bad politicians should "be sacked, period". I agree, and this is why we have democratic elections. Who will "sack the military, period", if they make mistakes? The people have been deprived of this basic right.

And you talk of all this clean up and awareness. How will you know what's clean and aware when there's is no news any more? After all, you used the free press to inform yourself of all Thaksin's wrongdoings. Doesn't it bother you that there is no free press to find out for yourself whether this lot is doing any better?

I suppose that Thai TV and the army happy channel give you all the news you need to know now?

You stick to this rhetoric, spurting out about the army record----elections---your lot on here are spewing out this every day---hardly a thing about the Shins democracy or so called.

The press during Thaksin reign was more strictly controlled--TV also, did that fact escape you ?? Thaksins press were not allowed to inform or the TV so I must be making this up-"with my head in the sand" Your clan on TVF are a complete joke---similar to photo copy machines.

[connda]

From HeyBruce:
I didn't edit your post, you did. I posted reply #138 at 20:35 to a post you made earlier, and I didn't edit the post. The post you refer to is post #136 which clearly shows it was edited at 20:47, after I posted my reply.

Please be careful with your accusations.

To HeyBruce:

You are correct. My apologies. After I wrote the initial post, I knew it was a generalization that needed clarification. You responded before I reposted the edit. If I screw up, I have no problems admitting to making a mistake. And I did screw up on that one. Again, sorry about that.

FYI, I couldn't respond to your post due to the system saying that the post had too many quoted blocks in the post. Therefore the new post.

[heybruce]

From HeyBruce:

I didn't edit your post, you did. I posted reply #138 at 20:35 to a post you made earlier, and I didn't edit the post. The post you refer to is post #136 which clearly shows it was edited at 20:47, after I posted my reply.

Please be careful with your accusations.

To HeyBruce:

You are correct. My apologies. After I wrote the initial post, I knew it was a generalization that needed clarification. You responded before I reposted the edit. If I screw up, I have no problems admitting to making a mistake. And I did screw up on that one. Again, sorry about that.

FYI, I couldn't respond to your post due to the system saying that the post had too many quoted blocks in the post. Therefore the new post.

Apology accepted. Sometimes we get carried away in posting and make mistakes. Good of you to admit to it.

[2fishin2]

A person who has been here 33 years has been through 3 what coups?

There is no such thing as "Thai Democracy" its called military rule for a group of proxies through a proxy. That is, until one of those proxies get pissed off because the "proxy" and democracy got strong and then the military overthrows again and another proxy is put in place. Im sure you get the drift.

And yes there is way too much moderating on Thai Visa. I have never seen so much on any site ever. Guess the military law is enforced here also.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[heybruce]

You keeps using the word 'agenda' as if it somehow grants you alone the right to base arguments on falsehoods, such as denying that the army kicked out the last government.

I agree that Thaksin was far from perfect - he was like a Thai version of Silvio Berlusconi. An oligarch as much as he was a democrat.

The point I am making is that the people should have been allowed to kick out Thaksin by proper democratic process, enshrined in Thailand's constitutional law. The army has just as bad. if not worse a record when they are in power, and they broke constitutional law by seizing power in the first place.

Further, the army are for fighting foreign wars. What on earth are they doing meddling in politics anyway?

Did you do any research on military dictatorships in Thailand yet? Tell us what you discovered please.

If you are saying that having an opinion equates to having an agenda, then we are all guilty of that. As human being, we have opinions, but arguments should be based on the truth, rather than invented falsehoods.

Agenda is the apt word, I proved it in a thread, it brought the said people with one out, all saying near word for word the same answers-all relating to elections --whatever the result it will be fine as the people have voted--same as PTP were elected--further elections were not to be had until a clean up and awareness were established. If you do not agree , then an agenda comes into it.

Politics is a business, in your business your committee nearly bankrupted you do you get them back into office---no you sack them period.

Agenda---with a committee meeting is a preplanned list for that meeting prior to the meeting date. Meeting open, minutes of the last meeting read out, agenda of items pre arranged to be questioned, and finally any other business, meeting closed---agenda=pre programmed items.

Did I do any research into military ????? what you think I am an historian, all dog muck smells some muck doesn't smell --ok.

Didn't PTP break that law with the amnesty bill and improper governance ???

I always get answers avoiding valid points, re the running of Yinglucks government, all the replies are side tracking and piercing questions into my Agenda---Ha Ha I do not have one I want good governance that's all. I had to aim for that in office in the UK. my idea for the army to take control in the UK is a no no. here at this time essential.

Your Thaksins police force were negative in all the uprisings--reds yellows you name it why ??? useless that's why---the army came in this time not with intention just to try to get Thaksins regime out but to stop gang warfare and bloodshed battles on the streets of Thailand. TELL ME WHO ELSE could have stopped this. AN ELECTION--pathetic. keep up your battle to get the army out. chok dee

The Thai military is a business too, and if you've been here 33 years you must either be working for the army propaganda machine or have your head in the sand not to know that, coz you talk like you just got off the plane.

Just look at the history of corrupt military governments in Thailand (which you refuse to do, because it would completely undermine your specious argument). By ignoring historical precedent on one side, but not the other side, what is your agenda?

You say that bad politicians should "be sacked, period". I agree, and this is why we have democratic elections. Who will "sack the military, period", if they make mistakes? The people have been deprived of this basic right.

And you talk of all this clean up and awareness. How will you know what's clean and aware when there's is no news any more? After all, you used the free press to inform yourself of all Thaksin's wrongdoings. Doesn't it bother you that there is no free press to find out for yourself whether this lot is doing any better?

I suppose that Thai TV and the army happy channel give you all the news you need to know now?

You stick to this rhetoric, spurting out about the army record----elections---your lot on here are spewing out this every day---hardly a thing about the Shins democracy or so called.

The press during Thaksin reign was more strictly controlled--TV also, did that fact escape you ?? Thaksins press were not allowed to inform or the TV so I must be making this up-"with my head in the sand" Your clan on TVF are a complete joke---similar to photo copy machines.

"The press during Thaksin reign was more strictly controlled--TV also, did that fact escape you ??"

Another absurd statement, and not really relevant to the discussion of the PTP government deposed by the coup. I and others will challenge you to defend it, and you will rant about clans with agendas without offering any defense.

[heybruce]

Sorry mate, these measures had to be taken after your PTP f things up. Yinglucks effort to get a quick election before the government wrong were in the open failed, Thaksin was stopped in his tracks for a clear record and return. (sigh of relief).

Your agenda is the misguided thing here. So you wanted the Thai people via Yingluck to get her back in ready for Thaksins return---sick.

A good thing came out of all this Thai people are now much more aware of how PTP ran a non democratic government, Wait guys your turn will come when free fair elections are on the cards, Will PTP be on the winners list---no chance. All we need here is a good government - your idea of democracy Thai style is pathetic. Other countries we see have the same problem, and to add tell me where there is a government in the world even clean that is democratic ??? This word democracy is so loose it's unbelievable.

I don't want the Shinwatra's back in power, that's your opinion of anyone who opposes the junta. I want the Thai people to be free to choose their leaders, preferably under a constitution not written to please the military. A July election would have been excellent because the PTP was at a low point in popularity, they probably would have been in the ensuing coalition government, but they might have lost their position as lead party in the coalition. In short, democratic change the way it's supposed to happen.

You maintain the delusion that the Thai people will hold no grudges about the coup and will accept whatever re-education the military has in mind before the next election. This is a pipe dream. The Thai people will remember and resent the coup and a great many will vote for whatever party the Shinawatra's endorse; by staging the coup the military has enhanced the long term influence of the family. But I'm sure that the constitution the military will impose on the country will ensure that democracy is merely a facade and all power is held behind the scenes by the traditional elite, with the military always ready to stage a coup if the voters somehow manage to rock the boat. No doubt you will enthusiastically support this system, some of use want better for Thailand.

[ginjag]

A person who has been here 33 years has been through 3 what coups?

There is no such thing as "Thai Democracy" its called military rule for a group of proxies through a proxy. That is, until one of those proxies get pissed off because the "proxy" and democracy got strong and then the military overthrows again and another proxy is put in place. Im sure you get the drift.

And yes there is way too much moderating on Thai Visa. I have never seen so much on any site ever. Guess the military law is enforced here also.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Was Thaksins regime years military based ??? was the last 3 years military based ??? so for all those years what achievements ???? Mods are trying to safeguard the forum from highly charged groups with an agenda or not, from slagging off the army for the sake of it.

If anyone wants to do that go into the centre of BKK and ball your wares on the pavement. barrow boy style.

[tbthailand]

What do you mean when you say "preferable"?

Preferable to you? Or preferable to the majority of the citizenry?

You are not even Thai.

Hey come on see sense. Preferable to Thais --in the street now, your blinkers are hindering you, How do you know about Majority NOW this day ?? Majority to YOU. I live here have a say on Thai visa, been here 33 years, but to you I have no idea about military rule over the period--my views on the Thaksin style governing are flawed, I am not Thai as you say, so what is your point, I should not even comment ??? but you are not Thai but it's ok to oppose anything the army does ???

"How do you know about Majority NOW this day ?? "

Elections

You keep speaking about the old 3 years ago majority not me. go play in the garden because if you cannot accept PTP failure that is where you deserve, why be in denial --still and now ?? you people are insatiable.

you just don't get it, do you?

[ginjag]

"How do you know about Majority NOW this day ?? "

Elections

You keep speaking about the old 3 years ago majority not me. go play in the garden because if you cannot accept PTP failure that is where you deserve, why be in denial --still and now ?? you people are insatiable.

you just don't get it, do you?

No and never will from your minority. go and have another meeting and come up with some fresh ideas.

[Pattszero]

how can what is basically a dictatorship be called democracy/

Are you talking about Thailand, the US, or the EU or just most countries.

Juntas, rule by Executive Order, Technocrats or rule by unelected bureaucrats and czars. None of which fits the definition of democracy.

The closet thing that this world has to democracy is in Switzerland. But I don't see any countries aspiring toward Direct Democracy. Too much power in the hands of the individual.

On the other hand, why all the hand wringing and tears over democracy. Sometimes the most judicious and efficient forms of government have nothing to do with the 'will of the majority' though a process of elected representatives. In this day and age, the word 'democracy' is just a catch phrase to invoke a specific emotional response from the masses; an emotional response that varies from group to group base on their core beliefs. The word itself boarders on meaninglessness.

And the only constant in life is change. Today's democracy will be tomorrow's dictatorship; today's dictatorship will be tomorrow's democracy. Study history.

Correct re Switzerland - effectively a technocracy with elected officials that have to ask the electorate their opinion on all important matters.

Very good.

[rubl]

Well, reading a few posts here I can only conclude that for some democracy means for Thailand to go back to chaos again, have a Thaksin controlled Pheu Thai led government pushing whatever they like to push because they have a mandate and s.... the others. Reminds me of Westerns academics 50 years ago, trying to justify Stalin's atrocities because he was the legal and rightful leader of a workers paradise, allegedly.