Islamic fanatics have changed the Middle East dynamic

[Steely Dan]

" However, this particular monster is a creation of the West "

for what end goal ?

Multifold; I suspect. ISIS enables a proxy to represent the Arab monarchies are are directly threatened by Shia expansion. Iraq is increasingly within the Shia/Iran fold. ISIS facilitates the means to fracture Iraq into three divisions that earlier US think tank policy hawks urged but a different track to keep Iraq intact was employed, resulting in the debacle we see today. These geographical boundaries are all artificial, having been created by the west; it could never have been sustained.

I believe it's self evident that global policy makers, who have consistently pushed the creation of regional amalgams such as ASEAN, NATO, NAFTA, UN, North Atlantic counsel, and other supranational entries to later be subsumed under a newly empowered UN, believe the return of a caliphate-like partner that represents a considerable block of the currently fractured Muslim world, would be a viable trading partner and self-police upstarts and malcontents- self-interest, of course. I'm confident that this is a strategic aim for the west. I am equally confident that this was not introduced by people familiar with Islam. There is no way, in the modern world, with the apocalyptic eschatology of multiple players, that this plan is sound idea. They've opened Pandora's Box.

Without necessarily proving any conspiracy theory the approach taken by the West to Islamic world is one of serial negligence to a degree that it's hard to conceive there is no Machiavellian overarching plan in play.

I would characterize the current approach as follows;-

1) Engineer a situation where a vote is arranged to give the thinnest veneer of democracy and by blind faith hope something resembling a Western democracy emerges from that.

2) when things go pear shaped try to negotiate with the worst but one of the groups concerned. Hence the Taliban are moderates compared to Al Qaeda and stunningly Iran is to ISIS. The search for the moderate Islamist is of course a fools errand, as Libya and Syria prove where the appointed 'moderates' have become game keepers turned poachers.

If I had to proffer a conspiracy theory it would concern the infiltration of the U.S government by advisers whose goal it appears to be to destabilize the Middle East by empowering the Muslim brotherhood and other groups intent on establishing a Caliphate. I must emphasize that this is pure conjecture, but surely Western leaders can't be quite as naive as they appear.

[arjunadawn]

Damn, I do believe you are correct again. http://www.globalresearch.ca/isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-trained-by-israeli-mossad-nsa-documents-reveal/5391593.

The al baghdadi issue almost seems like his imprisonment was cover for status (later his cover for action). I would not be surprised if he had been approached long ago in school. I never ran agents in the field but I have been trained in operations and intelligence and it is hardly a stretch to see the broad, steady, deliberate hand in all the mechanics over the past few years, from the Arab Spring (right) onward. Perhaps the other poster was correct in surmising Israel may have more to do with this than I imagined. After all, friend and foe alike recognize Israel has having some real elaborate plans that they execute with great precision. Something has tempered their hand to strike.

Edit: I have read the comment in the link. I think GR is a Canadian group... but I have found their comments to be quite accurate previously. The "Balkanization" strategy I noted previously would explain what this author comments on when he states they prefer to have an enemy on Israel's doorstep. They prefer no enemy of course but so long as the fractured artificial nature of the surrounding countries continue to exist, without water seeking its own level, the status quo will continue. They believe large regional players containing previously disparate entities can be better managed, or dominated if necessary.

[arjunadawn]

" However, this particular monster is a creation of the West "

for what end goal ?

Multifold; I suspect. ISIS enables a proxy to represent the Arab monarchies are are directly threatened by Shia expansion. Iraq is increasingly within the Shia/Iran fold. ISIS facilitates the means to fracture Iraq into three divisions that earlier US think tank policy hawks urged but a different track to keep Iraq intact was employed, resulting in the debacle we see today. These geographical boundaries are all artificial, having been created by the west; it could never have been sustained.

I believe it's self evident that global policy makers, who have consistently pushed the creation of regional amalgams such as ASEAN, NATO, NAFTA, UN, North Atlantic counsel, and other supranational entries to later be subsumed under a newly empowered UN, believe the return of a caliphate-like partner that represents a considerable block of the currently fractured Muslim world, would be a viable trading partner and self-police upstarts and malcontents- self-interest, of course. I'm confident that this is a strategic aim for the west. I am equally confident that this was not introduced by people familiar with Islam. There is no way, in the modern world, with the apocalyptic eschatology of multiple players, that this plan is sound idea. They've opened Pandora's Box.

Without necessarily proving any conspiracy theory the approach taken by the West to Islamic world is one of serial negligence to a degree that it's hard to conceive there is no Machiavellian overarching plan in play.

I would characterize the current approach as follows;-

1) Engineer a situation where a vote is arranged to give the thinnest veneer of democracy and by blind faith hope something resembling a Western democracy emerges from that.

2) when things go pear shaped try to negotiate with the worst but one of the groups concerned. Hence the Taliban are moderates compared to Al Qaeda and stunningly Iran is to ISIS. The search for the moderate Islamist is of course a fools errand, as Libya and Syria prove where the appointed 'moderates' have become game keepers turned poachers.

If I had to proffer a conspiracy theory it would concern the infiltration of the U.S government by advisers whose goal it appears to be to destabilize the Middle East by empowering the Muslim brotherhood and other groups intent on establishing a Caliphate. I must emphasize that this is pure conjecture, but surely Western leaders can't be quite as naive as they appear.

This is a well delivered theory, and surely deserves consideration by those with an interest in this area. I can agree that these points could be valid; your assertion also allows for the appearance of what I maintain confirms my musings.

There are some source documents that I believe the West is using as their playbook. I will locate some or enough to present a clear picture and share within next day or so. Basically, the think tanks that "volunteer" their information to presidents, PM, and legislators- well some- have constructed a blueprint of sorts for the roughly the same activities we are seeing today. When the CFR endorses a various blueprint, of sorts, its a fair assumption it will later be implemented. "Which Path to Persia" is one I read over a year ago and will revisit but there are other precursors that suggests more deliberate engineering- regionally. Pause--- actually I just looked up and reread your post and in my opinion, yes, it fits exactly in whats happening. The West is hardly controlling all immediate problems but managing systemically toward the desired end. They did not want Erbil sacked and thus had to enter the fray.

It is no secret the the Muslim Brotherhood is widely spread throughout the US administration, and some in remarkably high positions regarding security and policy (yes, I could cite and you could google). The US was really set back by Egypt, who had previously outlawed MB under Mubarak, returning to the streets and ousting Morisi. What many do not know was that considerable testimony was exchanged in various court proceedings noting the State department funneling extensive amounts of cash to MB operatives, as well as Morisi when already a sitting president. Later, even Obama's brother was indicted for being a bag man for the MB. There are other tantalizing tidbits from these court proceedings but with translations being central, some of the other things said are more questionable. (H Clinton's prime aid and her mother are powerful women in the female version of the MB).

[Asiantravel]

" However, this particular monster is a creation of the West "

for what end goal ?

Multifold; I suspect. ISIS enables a proxy to represent the Arab monarchies are are directly threatened by Shia expansion. Iraq is increasingly within the Shia/Iran fold. ISIS facilitates the means to fracture Iraq into three divisions that earlier US think tank policy hawks urged but a different track to keep Iraq intact was employed, resulting in the debacle we see today. These geographical boundaries are all artificial, having been created by the west; it could never have been sustained.

I believe it's self evident that global policy makers, who have consistently pushed the creation of regional amalgams such as ASEAN, NATO, NAFTA, UN, North Atlantic counsel, and other supranational entries to later be subsumed under a newly empowered UN, believe the return of a caliphate-like partner that represents a considerable block of the currently fractured Muslim world, would be a viable trading partner and self-police upstarts and malcontents- self-interest, of course. I'm confident that this is a strategic aim for the west. I am equally confident that this was not introduced by people familiar with Islam. There is no way, in the modern world, with the apocalyptic eschatology of multiple players, that this plan is sound idea. They've opened Pandora's Box.

Without necessarily proving any conspiracy theory the approach taken by the West to Islamic world is one of serial negligence to a degree that it's hard to conceive there is no Machiavellian overarching plan in play.

I would characterize the current approach as follows;-

1) Engineer a situation where a vote is arranged to give the thinnest veneer of democracy and by blind faith hope something resembling a Western democracy emerges from that.

2) when things go pear shaped try to negotiate with the worst but one of the groups concerned. Hence the Taliban are moderates compared to Al Qaeda and stunningly Iran is to ISIS. The search for the moderate Islamist is of course a fools errand, as Libya and Syria prove where the appointed 'moderates' have become game keepers turned poachers.

If I had to proffer a conspiracy theory it would concern the infiltration of the U.S government by advisers whose goal it appears to be to destabilize the Middle East by empowering the Muslim brotherhood and other groups intent on establishing a Caliphate. I must emphasize that this is pure conjecture, but surely Western leaders can't be quite as naive as they appear.

This is a well delivered theory, and surely deserves consideration by those with an interest in this area. I can agree that these points could be valid; your assertion also allows for the appearance of what I maintain confirms my musings.

There are some source documents that I believe the West is using as their playbook. I will locate some or enough to present a clear picture and share within next day or so. Basically, the think tanks that "volunteer" their information to presidents, PM, and legislators- well some- have constructed a blueprint of sorts for the roughly the same activities we are seeing today. When the CFR endorses a various blueprint, of sorts, its a fair assumption it will later be implemented. "Which Path to Persia" is one I read over a year ago and will revisit but there are other precursors that suggests more deliberate engineering- regionally. Pause--- actually I just looked up and reread your post and in my opinion, yes, it fits exactly in whats happening. The West is hardly controlling all immediate problems but managing systemically toward the desired end. They did not want Erbil sacked and thus had to enter the fray.

It is no secret the the Muslim Brotherhood is widely spread throughout the US administration, and some in remarkably high positions regarding security and policy (yes, I could cite and you could google). The US was really set back by Egypt, who had previously outlawed MB under Mubarak, returning to the streets and ousting Morisi. What many do not know was that considerable testimony was exchanged in various court proceedings noting the State department funneling extensive amounts of cash to MB operatives, as well as Morisi when already a sitting president. Later, even Obama's brother was indicted for being a bag man for the MB. There are other tantalizing tidbits from these court proceedings but with translations being central, some of the other things said are more questionable. (H Clinton's prime aid and her mother are powerful women in the female version of the MB).

So are these kinds of alarming messages aired by Reuters something not to be taken seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V0kOCG5OWuE

[sgtsabai]

mutha289 good one. Although as we all should know US Marines have been guarding Heaven's streets since USMC inception. There aren't any virgins left.

[Steely Dan]

After carefully weighing up all factors I can only conclude ISIS are part of a Zionist plot to circumcise the world, the US is already 50% compliant! or so I've heard.

http://www.aina.org/news/20140818033309.htm

[Steely Dan]

With all the petty squabbling one could almost conclude there is an attempt to de-rail the topic, but the topic is very serious indeed. An estimated 1500 Yazidis have been sold into slavery. We have forced circumcisions, beheadings, this is what a real genocide looks like, yet where are the protests? Tens of thousands of Muslims and leftists protest against Israel exercising the right of self-defence yet there is hardly a protest to be seen over IS. If indeed the entity called Islamic State is somehow misunderstanding a peaceful religion then where are the demonstrations arguing that case?

The answer is a public relations disaster for the Caliphate by stealth supporters, they must be thankful for any diversion they can find.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[sgtsabai]

Any opinions, as if we don't have more than enough, on this from "War On the Rocks". http://warontherocks.com/2014/08/dont-bs-the-american-people-about-iraq-syria-and-isil/ http://warontherocks.com/2014/08/air-striking-the-right-balance-in-iraq/ . All in all, I believe that we should defend the Kurds, and defend them to the utmost. On the other hand, the US intervention into the middle east opened Pandora's Box. I do not see a solution, long or short term.