Learned some Thai History today - WW2

[AYJAYDEE]

What grates on many westerners is that after Thailand capitulated and let the Japs in to build their death camps and railways, they had the gall to include the line "we're not afraid to fight" in their national anthem. I mean the Filippinos put up more of a fight but the actions of the Seri Thai helped a little.

Thais are not afraid to fight.

I do not think that Thailand officially fought in the occupation of South Vietnam by The United States.

But they did fight on the side of the USA.

I have been told my several U.S. Vietnam vets that the Thais did fight alongside of them and that Thais were some of the toughest, bravest and best fighting soldiers they had ever seen.

Thais are not afraid to fight.

They just seem to have the problem of joining the side of the losers!

they fought well in laos too

[thailiketoo]

Thais are not afraid to fight.

I do not think that Thailand officially fought in the occupation of South Vietnam by The United States.

But they did fight on the side of the USA.

I have been told my several U.S. Vietnam vets that the Thais did fight alongside of them and that Thais were some of the toughest, bravest and best fighting soldiers they had ever seen.

Thais are not afraid to fight.

They just seem to have the problem of joining the side of the losers!

Vietnam War (1955–1975)

Due to its close proximity with Thailand, Vietnam's conflict was closely monitored by Bangkok. Thai involvement did not become official until the total involvement of the United States in 1963. Thailand allowed the United States Air Force in Thailand to use air bases and naval bases for U.S. forces. Eventually contributing infantry units and other resources. The Thai Armed Forces suffered 1,351 deaths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Armed_Forces

Actually the British occupied Vietnam. The War in Vietnam, codenamed Operation Masterdom by the British, was a post–World War II armed conflict involving a largely British-Indian and French task force and Japanese troops from the Southern Expeditionary Army Group, versus the Vietnamese communist movement, the Viet Minh, for control of the country, after the unconditional Japanese surrender.

Edited August 20, 2014 by thailiketoo

[samran]

Isn't this really just a question if real-politik? You do what is best for your country, even if you are faced with a shit sandwhich. Sometime you just chew furiously and smile while doing so. That it gained Malaysian territory no doubt was an incentive. But given the shoddy job the Brits did in protecting Malaya and Singapore, what incentive was there to stand up a fight?

[H1w4yR1da]

the japanese didnt have to invade. they were allies. why on earth would thailand have chosen sure defeat just to please western powers that were still practicing colonialism throughout south east asia?

To prevent Thailand from becoming a Japanese colony? But nevermind, just roll over and give up without a fight. Apparently the Thai women were quite pleased having lots of Jap soldiers to service...

Personally, with the exception of the Seri Thai,the behavior of Thailand during WW2 was disgraceful.

As far as I know the Seri Thai were not much of a force. With the exception of a couple of American airmen rescued and one minor engagement I have never been able to find out any accomplishments except having their photo taken. Have you?

Not really, apart from some action supporting the prisoners on the death railway.

[thailiketoo]

Isn't this really just a question if real-politik? You do what is best for your country, even if you are faced with a shit sandwhich. Sometime you just chew furiously and smile while doing so. That it gained Malaysian territory no doubt was an incentive. But given the shoddy job the Brits did in protecting Malaya and Singapore, what incentive was there to stand up a fight?

They stood up and fought the French in 1940. They knew they could do it. Thailand could have significantly changed the length of the war had they stalled the Japanese cross country march to Singapore. The Japanese invasion force and the Thai army were the same size and I believe you multiply the defender by a considerable margin.

They asked the allies for supplies and arms and were refused and then there was the French thing where the Japanese helped them and provided supplies and aircraft and so on.

I think the Japanese played it right and the Allies played it wrong. America froze all Thai assets before the war in the USA which was a problem. Phibun's son who was going to school in America at the time ran out of money.

[thequietman]

What grates on many westerners is that after Thailand capitulated and let the Japs in to build their death camps and railways, they had the gall to include the line "we're not afraid to fight" in their national anthem. I mean the Filippinos put up more of a fight but the actions of the Seri Thai helped a little.

If that upsets you, google who wrote the national anthem for Thailand. That's a post in itself. Enjoy.

[thequietman]

Ofcourse they are not afraid to fight............. there's a group of them. Now.................. fighting one on one.............. thats a different discussion.

What grates on many westerners is that after Thailand capitulated and let the Japs in to build their death camps and railways, they had the gall to include the line "we're not afraid to fight" in their national anthem. I mean the Filippinos put up more of a fight but the actions of the Seri Thai helped a little.

Thais are not afraid to fight.

I do not think that Thailand officially fought in the occupation of South Vietnam by The United States.

But they did fight on the side of the USA.

I have been told my several U.S. Vietnam vets that the Thais did fight alongside of them and that Thais were some of the toughest, bravest and best fighting soldiers they had ever seen.

Thais are not afraid to fight.

They just seem to have the problem of joining the side of the losers!

[Mammon]

The Thai's didn't put up a fight like the French resistance for example but many did assist escaped POW's, provided support and food to POW's when possible and many others sympathized with the Japanese in an attempt to gain favor and many others were brutalized by the Japanese too. I'm afraid if someone invaded my country I would make their life and mission a misery or die doing it, but it's clear the Thai's didn't do that.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Mammon

[thailiketoo]

What grates on many westerners is that after Thailand capitulated and let the Japs in to build their death camps and railways, they had the gall to include the line "we're not afraid to fight" in their national anthem. I mean the Filippinos put up more of a fight but the actions of the Seri Thai helped a little.

why should thailand have fought on the side of western powers?

because they were invaded by a foreign power...Japan. If any foreign power invades your country you fight them and that means you are with the Allies not just western powers.

In 1940 the Japanese assisted the Thais in their war with France. In 1941 the Thais assisted Japan in their war with the Allied powers.

[rickirs]

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It was either that or get slaughtered. I cant understand why westerners are surprised by this. why would they expect thai loyalty to western governments? The lure of the "East Asian Co-prosperity Sphere" would have made perfect sense to a south-east asian nation.

The surprise perhaps comes from the Japanese slaughter of Filipinos, Chinese, Koreans, etc. who yet still fought back, often against overwhelming odds in often guerilla warfare with the Allies to gain back their national identity. The Thais seemed to have bailed rather quickly in comparison.

[thailiketoo]

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It was either that or get slaughtered. I cant understand why westerners are surprised by this. why would they expect thai loyalty to western governments? The lure of the "East Asian Co-prosperity Sphere" would have made perfect sense to a south-east asian nation.

The surprise perhaps comes from the Japanese slaughter of Filipinos, Chinese, Koreans, etc. who yet still fought back, often against overwhelming odds in often guerilla warfare with the Allies to gain back their national identity. The Thais seemed to have bailed rather quickly in comparison.

The Japanese had 14 air regiments, about 400-500 planes, stationed in southern Burma and Thailand, including Mae Hong Son, Chiang Rai, Chiang Mai, Lamphun, Lampang and Tak.

The Thais didn't have to bail because they were allies with Japan. The token resistance to the landings was just that a token. Check how long it took the Japanese air bases in Thailand to become operational after the landings.

[TheFishman1]

So The Thais just let them in What A Surprise

[liddelljohn]

When the japs invaded most of the government was in their pockets but certain military units did try to stop the jap invasions and were actually able to hold up the Japanese advance down past prachup kiri Khan for 2 weeks .. When they ran out of ammo the Thai government had all the officers shot ..

During the war the japs only occupied about 20% of thailand , the rest was administered by the Thai Quislings ,, but the was a substantial anti japanese freedom fighter action by the'' FreeTHAI army'' and at the end of the war the British arrested all the pro Japanese Thai officials and put the ''FREE THAI in charge ..

But in 1946 the Americans aided a coup to release the pro jap war criminals and they formed a pro USA anti communist government , and many of the free Thai were soon murdered or forced into asylum....

[thailiketoo]

When the japs invaded most of the government was in their pockets but certain military units did try to stop the jap invasions and were actually able to hold up the Japanese advance down past prachup kiri Khan for 2 weeks .. When they ran out of ammo the Thai government had all the officers shot ..

During the war the japs only occupied about 20% of thailand , the rest was administered by the Thai Quislings ,, but the was a substantial anti japanese freedom fighter action by the'' FreeTHAI army'' and at the end of the war the British arrested all the pro Japanese Thai officials and put the ''FREE THAI in charge ..

But in 1946 the Americans aided a coup to release the pro jap war criminals and they formed a pro USA anti communist government , and many of the free Thai were soon murdered or forced into asylum....

You wrote, " but the was a substantial anti japanese freedom fighter action by the'' FreeTHAI army" That would be the Seri Thai. Only problem, they didn't do anything. They had arms and equipment but no one trusted them to actually do anything.

You can of course prove me wrong. Name a couple of things that a substantial anti Japanese force did, besides getting frozen funds in a USA bank unfrozen.

[bonobo]

In one of the first missions of the war the Flying Tigers (American mercenaries) bombed Chiang Mai 3 months after the Japanese surprise attack against Pearl Harbor.

A slightly slanted description of them as mercenaries. While the Flying Tigers were technically part of the Chinese Air Force, and while they got paid more than they had as simple members of the US Army Air Corps, the Navy, and the Marines, they still retained their rank and service in the US forces. They were a volunteer air group sent, with full US backing and planes, to help the Chinese fend off the Japanese.

"Mercenaries" has the connotation of merely fighting for money without regard to politics or philosophy. The Flying Tigers were Americans fighting to uphold US policy.

[salavan]

might be why thai's in kanchanaburi are unfriendly and unwelcoming to farang

[dagobert]

Ahh well no coment !

[samran]

might be why thai's in kanchanaburi are unfriendly and unwelcoming to farang

no, they just don't like you....

[wilcopops]

It looks like many are commenting with only a skimpy knowledge of Thai's history before during and after the war, and a jumping to all sorts of conclusions.

for instance it wasn't black and white - There were people in Thailand who were pro- Japanese and anti.

See the behaviour of the Thai ambassador in US

See the career of K. Phibun who was wanted for war crimes after the war.

How Thailand was handled AFTER the war was largely down to the US who began to see them as a vital bulwark against what they perceived as the communist threat.

They largely discarded any attempts to bring to court any of the Thai military they believed to be "collaborators" or war criminals, for the se of somewhere to park their planes.

THE UK wanted to severely penalise Thailand after the war, but the US prevented that.

It is also often forgotten that when Mountbatten took charge in "Indo-Chiona" after the war there was no police force or any governmental infrastructure - so he used what was already there and made the Japanese the local police..

Many Thai hi-so were well know as Nazi sympathisers before the war and many longed to establish a Japanese style military nation. in fact as a nation they have singularly defied all attempts at democratisation and gone for the top down "one leader" option every time.

Edited August 20, 2014 by wilcopops

[thailiketoo]

In one of the first missions of the war the Flying Tigers (American mercenaries) bombed Chiang Mai 3 months after the Japanese surprise attack against Pearl Harbor.

A slightly slanted description of them as mercenaries. While the Flying Tigers were technically part of the Chinese Air Force, and while they got paid more than they had as simple members of the US Army Air Corps, the Navy, and the Marines, they still retained their rank and service in the US forces. They were a volunteer air group sent, with full US backing and planes, to help the Chinese fend off the Japanese.

"Mercenaries" has the connotation of merely fighting for money without regard to politics or philosophy. The Flying Tigers were Americans fighting to uphold US policy.

$500 per plane. Although initially the five-hundred-dollar-bonus was paid for confirmed planes destroyed in air combat only, the bonus was soon applied to planes destroyed on the ground - if they could be confirmed.

When the AVG was converted to the US Air Force only five AVG pilots joined the 23rd Fighter Group; the USAAF officer responsible for inducting the AVG men used very little tact and told them to sign up, on the Army's terms, or else go home and face the draft boards.

The majority of the Flying Tigers told the US Army to Foff and joined the Chinese National Airlines.

http://acepilots.com/misc_tigers.html

Edited August 20, 2014 by thailiketoo

[smotherb]

Well, OP, sorry you are so ill-informed. Thailand's involvement in WWII has been well known; since WWII.

However, your use of wikipedia or any other encyclopedia for important research consideration is suspect.

Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia compiled by a distributed network of volunteers, has often come under attack by academics as being shoddy and full of inaccuracies. Even Wikipedia’s founder, Jimmy Wales, says he wants to get the message out to college students that they shouldn’t use it for class projects or serious research.

Speaking at a conference at the University of Pennsylvania on Friday called “The Hyperlinked Society,” Mr. Wales said that he gets about 10 e-mail messages a week from students who complain that Wikipedia has gotten them into academic hot water. “They say, ‘Please help me. I got an F on my paper because I cited Wikipedia’” and the information turned out to be wrong, he says. But he said he has no sympathy for their plight, noting that he thinks to himself: “For God sake, you’re in college; don’t cite the encyclopedia.”

Mr. Wales said that leaders of Wikipedia have considered putting together a fact sheet that professors could give out to students explaining what Wikipedia is and that it is not always a definitive source. “It is pretty good, but you have to be careful with it,” he said. “It’s good enough knowledge, depending on what your purpose is.”

In an interview, Mr. Wales said that Wikipedia is ideal for many uses. If you are reading a novel that mentions the Battle of the Bulge, for instance, you could use Wikipedia to get a quick basic overview of the historical event to understand the context. But students writing a paper about the battle should hit the history books.

Posted on Monday June 12, 2006 | Permalink |

[Deacon Bell]

An old American Plane (Mustang?) was found and dug out of a field in Lam Luk Ka (Bangkok) 1-2 years ago.

It's now on show in the Don Muang Airforce Museum.

Someone google and put up the results. I remember that it was tracked back and the pilot's details and flight details etc were all found. I remember the pilot's history was an interesting one.

[thailiketoo]

Well, OP, sorry you are so ill-informed. Thailand's involvement in WWII has been well known; since WWII.

However, your use of wikipedia or any other encyclopedia for important research consideration is suspect.

Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia compiled by a distributed network of volunteers, has often come under attack by academics as being shoddy and full of inaccuracies. Even Wikipedia’s founder, Jimmy Wales, says he wants to get the message out to college students that they shouldn’t use it for class projects or serious research.

Speaking at a conference at the University of Pennsylvania on Friday called “The Hyperlinked Society,” Mr. Wales said that he gets about 10 e-mail messages a week from students who complain that Wikipedia has gotten them into academic hot water. “They say, ‘Please help me. I got an F on my paper because I cited Wikipedia’” and the information turned out to be wrong, he says. But he said he has no sympathy for their plight, noting that he thinks to himself: “For God sake, you’re in college; don’t cite the encyclopedia.”

Mr. Wales said that leaders of Wikipedia have considered putting together a fact sheet that professors could give out to students explaining what Wikipedia is and that it is not always a definitive source. “It is pretty good, but you have to be careful with it,” he said. “It’s good enough knowledge, depending on what your purpose is.”

In an interview, Mr. Wales said that Wikipedia is ideal for many uses. If you are reading a novel that mentions the Battle of the Bulge, for instance, you could use Wikipedia to get a quick basic overview of the historical event to understand the context. But students writing a paper about the battle should hit the history books.

Posted on Monday June 12, 2006 | Permalink |

It would be interesting if you pointed out where Wiki was wrong. Just accusing them of being incorrect is hardly any indictment. Where's the beef?

[dominique355]

What grates on many westerners is that after Thailand capitulated and let the Japs in to build their death camps and railways, they had the gall to include the line "we're not afraid to fight" in their national anthem. I mean the Filippinos put up more of a fight but the actions of the Seri Thai helped a little.

why should thailand have fought on the side of western powers?

The question is why should Thailand, the Land of the Free have fought the Japanese occupation?

Well, look what happened to countries occupied by the Japanese Empire, like the Philippines, China (Nanjing), Hong Kong, Korea (comfort women). Would that be enough to fight?

[thailiketoo]

The question is why should Thailand, the Land of the Free have fought the Japanese occupation?

Well, look what happened to countries occupied by the Japanese Empire, like the Philippines, China (Nanjing), Hong Kong, Korea (comfort women). Would that be enough to fight?

Thailand was not occupied by Japan. Thailand was Japan's only voluntary ally during WWII.

In case you want to check this out. Thailand had an Army and Thailand invaded and occupied parts of Burma with Japan's assistance. Thailand also defeated the French in the Franco/Thai war with the help of the Japanese.

In accordance with the Thai military alliance with Japan that was signed on 21 December 1941, On 21 March, the Thais and Japanese also agreed that Kayah State and Eastern Shan State were to be under Thai control. The rest of Burma was to be under Japanese control.

The leading elements of the Thai Phayap Army (commanded by Jarun Rattanakun Seriroengrit) crossed the border into the Shan States on 10 May 1942. Three Thai infantry and one cavalry division, spearheaded by armoured reconnaissance groups and supported by the air force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_conquest_of_Burma

Edited August 20, 2014 by thailiketoo

[shaurene]

I did not have to read it. In WW2 Thailand gave permission to Japan to land troops and armour in South Thailand where the Japs invaded Malaya to move their troops over to Burma. Thailand declared war on the UK and USA. After the attack on Pearl Harbour.

Thailand also allowed the Japs to move British prisoners up through Thailand past Bangkok to start building the railway tracks for the Burma Railway.

The British and USA did not punish Thailand for this.

[Rorri]

AYJAYDEE, on 20 Aug 2014 - 12:18, said:

H1w4yR1da, on 20 Aug 2014 - 11:12, said:To prevent Thailand from becoming a Japanese colony? But nevermind, just roll over and give up without a fight. Apparently the Thai women were quite pleased having lots of Jap soldiers to service...

Personally, with the exception of the Seri Thai,the behavior of Thailand during WW2 was disgraceful.

the asians didnt understand how japan would treat them at that time. the thais and the indonesians believed the japanese propoganda about the East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. and they did know enough not to trust the west as they had the examples of vietnam, laos, cambodia, malaya, burma , philipines, and indonesia. why on earth would anyone trust that bunch!?

and please stop referring them as japs

I hope you have never referred to Australians as aussies, British as Brits Americans as yanks, New Zealanders as kiwis etc etc etc. But of course, you being you will deny saying any of these. You troll for the sake of trolling.

[PJcm]

As someone once said of Thailand, after the war, the subjects are not good fodder for democracy but good fodder for war. I think it was a Japanese officer or a diplomat.

[Saan]

To prevent Thailand from becoming a Japanese colony? But nevermind, just roll over and give up without a fight. Apparently the Thai women were quite pleased having lots of Jap soldiers to service...

Personally, with the exception of the Seri Thai,the behavior of Thailand during WW2 was disgraceful.

the asians didnt understand how japan would treat them at that time. the thais and the indonesians believed the japanese propoganda about the East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. and they did know enough not to trust the west as they had the examples of vietnam, laos, cambodia, malaya, burma , philipines, and indonesia. why on earth would anyone trust that bunch!?

and please stop referring them as japs

The Asians certainly misjudged the Nips (is that better than Japs) as about 90,000 died on the Burma railway. About 12,400 Allies died.

[Saan]

In one of the first missions of the war the Flying Tigers (American mercenaries) bombed Chiang Mai 3 months after the Japanese surprise attack against Pearl Harbor.

. The Flying Tigers were Americans fighting to uphold US policy.

In fact they were flying despite US policy at that stage. It was Pearl Harbor that saw a change to the isolationist policy.