Thai Prime Minister Says Corruption Natural......

[udon]

Thai prime minister says corruption natural

(DPA)

8 July 2006

BANGKOK - Thai caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said on Saturday that corruption is quite normal in life and to be expected.

He told his weekly radio audience that most people will exploit any opportunities they can find to make extra money.

“It’s human nature to try to find loopholes. To cheat, to look for the weak spot in any system,” Thaksin said.

He said this was the reason that government was switching over to using computerised bids for government contracts, rather than the old system of taking bids in sealed envelopes. “It’s more transparent. It’s harder to cheat.”

Thailand is in a political crisis triggered by opposition claims that the prime minister and his family and associates have exploited political power for personal gains. Thaksin may not contest fresh elections scheduled for later this year.

Thaksin’s popularity with the urban middle classes plumetted in January when his family sold its 49.6 per cent stake in Shin Corp - Thailand’s largest telecommunications conglomerate - to Temasek, the Singapore government’s investment arm, for a tax-free 1.9 billion dollars.

Critics of the prime minister have claimed the sale was technically legal, but structured in ways that broke the spirit of laws designed to protect strategic business assets from foreign control.

Thaksin said in his weekly radio show that all laws needed to be continuously updated to stop people exploiting loopholes.

Yeah, right .....

[swervie2000]

Yup. Mr. Boxhead should know, he's the king of C...And only a boxhead like him would mention it like it's something that needs to be controled, except anything done by him of course. Typical ######ing politician.

[penzman]

I'm amazed that someone who can't learn to keep his mouth shut still insists on having a weekly radio show where he keeps piling up controversy.

[chownah]

Toxin is exactly correct here. Plain talk about a simple subject. Many people will complain....even when he tells it like it is.

[jdinasia]

lol Chowna ... people complain because Thaksin appears to be the center of corrupt politics in Thailand .. not to mention some serious income issues about where how and why his family keeps generating wealth far faster than other Thais ....

[samran]

Whatever his merits, Dr T is spot on. People will always look for the path of least resitance. People will look for the weak spots in any system, and use it to their advantage.

It is no secret here that large MNC's run by westerners employ 'fixers' to know the subtelties of the system. Is it right? No. But it is a fact.

Even where you try to play above board, you look for the loopholes.

I am doing my Australian Tax return now, and beleive me, I am claiming anything I can. Same with my Thai tax return earlier this year.

As that toad, Australia's (now dead) richest man Kerry Packer once said to a Senate Hearing Committee: Anyone who pays one cent more in tax than they need to needs their heads read.

[Gary A]

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The fact is that no matter what he says or does someone will be screaming. I think it's jealousy. I can still remember when it was normal and accepted that the provincial heads took 25 percent of the federal money for their pockets. The police and other government officials still take bribes and since this is as it has always been changes are slow to come. It will be at least another generation before there are major changes. All the big shots have lots of things they can tell about the others. The practice is that you don't rat on me and I won't rat on you. When they are dead and gone there may or may not be changes. This is Asia. Show me an Asian country that is different.

[The Skipper]

People seem to forget that he was rich, long before politics. Really rich.

His name is on the Communications Satellites over Thailand.

The guy is a taskmaster in a corrupt system and I think the Country is better with him than without him.Ask around, most will say they are better off today than 6 years ago.

I disagree with his policy on human rights and freedom of the press but overall his performance has been a B+ I think.

[penzman]

This sort of shows though that he's toned down on his promise to fight corruption.

Someone mentioned lately that the latest marathon to open the Suwanabhumi airport is to allow contractors to receive their dues earlier, allowing the whole kickback process to kick in, before the courts come up with decisions.

[samran]

Ask around, most will say they are better off today than 6 years ago.

We're coming off a pretty low base on that one. Think about it. 2000, two years after 1998. The Thai economy was still moribund. Blind Freddy could have done what Dear Leader has done economically, without the indebting the countryside in the process or resurrecting and then escalating the southern insurgency. I'd argue that the economy has recovered inspite of what Thaksin's done.

[penzman]

Don't forget the constant over enthousiastic and inflated economic predictions that mostly always fall short of their target, you don't hear much about those afterwards. Most of the wealth you see around you was or still is on credit.

[chownah]

lol Chowna ... people complain because Thaksin appears to be the center of corrupt politics in Thailand .. not to mention some serious income issues about where how and why his family keeps generating wealth far faster than other Thais ....

You're off topic!!!!

[chownah]

This sort of shows though that he's toned down on his promise to fight corruption.

I don't think it shows this at all....it is just an example of him telling his views on human nature and I think you'll find that unbiased people will agree with him here. If Prem had said the same thing there would be nothing but agreement from TV membership I'm sure.

[Sakeopete]

This sort of shows though that he's toned down on his promise to fight corruption.

I don't think it shows this at all....it is just an example of him telling his views on human nature and I think you'll find that unbiased people will agree with him here. If Prem had said the same thing there would be nothing but agreement from TV membership I'm sure.

Yes but Prem hasn't been acused of cheating the Thai people of millions in taxes and using political influence to make his family richer financialy.

[PREM-R]

This sort of shows though that he's toned down on his promise to fight corruption.

I don't think it shows this at all....it is just an example of him telling his views on human nature and I think you'll find that unbiased people will agree with him here. If Prem had said the same thing there would be nothing but agreement from TV membership I'm sure.

It's nothing to do with me.......honest

[Mobi]

Surely, all he is doing is justifying his, and his cronies' totally corrupt acts?

Come on guys, this country is in desperate need of a 'clean' inspirational leader who can start to make some inroads into the institutionalised corruption, not someone who practises it and then tells his poor up country constituents that it's Ok, because its just human nature.

[chownah]

This sort of shows though that he's toned down on his promise to fight corruption.

I don't think it shows this at all....it is just an example of him telling his views on human nature and I think you'll find that unbiased people will agree with him here. If Prem had said the same thing there would be nothing but agreement from TV membership I'm sure.

Yes but Prem hasn't been acused of cheating the Thai people of millions in taxes and using political influence to make his family richer financialy.

This is only my opinion and could vey easily be wrong....but....I don't believe that anyone in Thailand can achieve Kuhn Prem's rank and position without having a family with good connections and political influence. What Kuhn Prem ( or family) has or has not done in the past is unknown to me.

The point I'm trying to make is that this topic is about a comment that Toxin made...and...I think that it is clearly stating a truth about human nature. Some people don't want to ever accept that Toxin might say something that is correct....this post has demonstrated this very clearly.

[chownah]

Surely, all he is doing is justifying his, and his cronies' totally corrupt acts?

Come on guys, this country is in desperate need of a 'clean' inspirational leader who can start to make some inroads into the institutionalised corruption, not someone who practises it and then tells his poor up country constituents that it's Ok, because its just human nature.

I don't think that Toxin is saying that corruption is OK. Did I miss something in the original post that indicated this?....although he probably does think that it is OK to a certain degree (as do most Thais) but he would never say this publicly. Anyone who has given a police officer a 100 baht note to take care of a driving infraction would have to agree that corruption is OK to a certain degree, don't you think?

This is the second time in the last week or so that Toxin has mentined corruption...that I've seen at least. Perhaps his strategy is to send the opposition off on a wild goose chase for the "charismatic" person while he casually works a bit more anti corruption into his presentation until....voila....while the opposition's back is turned he has transformed himself into an "inspirational leader" ready to rid the country of all those corrupt politicians who are complaining so much because they are being denied access to the public trough and who try to distract the voters from this crusade by attempting to raise paranoid fantasies about some "charismatic person"!!!!.....but I'm probably wrong....I guess I have an overactive imagination..

Chownah

[Donz]

I dont like any politician, i believe they are ALL corupt, just some know how to hide it better.

[Martin]

I recommend the reading of "Corruption and Democracy in Thailand" by Pasuk Phongpaichit and Sungsidh Piriyarangsan (1994).

The fifth reprint of the second edition is in the bookshops.

It is very revealing about how long it will take to do even a partial 'clean up' of Thai society in its social, economic and political aspects.

It is also very revealing that much of what we Westerners term 'corruption' is, to Thais, no more than the good manners of a little 'thank you' gesture to a helpful official, or 'tea money', or 'a bit of bribery, but well short of corruption'.

Thais reserve the term 'kan khorrapchan' for something way beyond a politician skimming off enough from public funds to recoup his election costs.

[sebastian]

It's not just Thailand it's everywhere, do you remember Tony Blairs wife buying those apartments in London in her kids names at a knock down price so as to avoid paying capital gains tax, deputy prime minister John 'fat <deleted> two jags' prescott has lost his grace and favour mansion now.

Do you think that imbecile G.W. Bush would have got anywhere if not for his oil rich daddy.

Everyone will try to feather their own nest if they can, even if you are a so called socialist like Prescott

[opothai]

what he said is correct to most people in normal life, but on a small scale.

when it is on the scale of thailands millions of bht being syphoned of by people in responsible positions then it becomes a crime, not just human nature.

it is not politiclly astute to openly state it is human nature as this could and no doubt will encourage even more corruption than there already is, congratulations heir premier numb nuts.

its one of those things that every body knows but never admits.

[Plus]

“It’s human nature to try to find loopholes. To cheat, to look for the weak spot in any system,” Thaksin said.

That's of course true, but usually leaders encourage people not to give in to this part of human nature and "do the right thing". Anand publicly warned last year that if Thais continue to go along with the "nature" the country will be ruined. That send a totally different message, but perhaps Thaksin wasn't quoted in full. What really makes people puke is this:

Thaksin said in his weekly radio show that all laws needed to be continuously updated to stop people exploiting loopholes.

This is from a man who himself exploited every possible loophole and "updated" the law not to stop but to create loopholes. Hypocrisy at its worst.

Don't even try to put Prem in the same league as Thaksin. I don't know what connections he had, but he served the country his whole life and won Privy Council president position for his service, not "tea money" contributions. His reputation is stellar. There's no point casting shadows of doubts without any evidence.

Don't also paint every Thai leader with the same brush - Chuan Leekpai was a nobody, and he is only one out of many former PMs who are percieved as "clean". In fact in the past 30 years three out of seven were "clean".

Perhaps his strategy is to send the opposition off on a wild goose chase for the "charismatic" person while he casually works a bit more anti corruption into his presentation until....voila....while the opposition's back is turned he has transformed himself into an "inspirational leader" ready to rid the country of all those corrupt politicians

It won't happen - his reputation is beyond repair. What he is saying instead is that his cimes are no crimes at all - it's "nature", you need someone "dirty" to catch "dirty" people. We've heard it before, most recently from a certain EC commisioner who himself was disqualified for vote buying once - look where it brought him now.

[Martin]

"its one of those things that every body knows but never admits."

Thaksin is shrewd, and it suits his campaign to be seen as the one who does admit it, because it is time it was admitted, and tackled.

He will realise that the only way that he can be seen again as "the right man for the job" is to bring into the open the things that could be improved by having a stronger parliament.

And downright, big-scale corruption is one of them.

But he will also be thinking that he mustn't threaten the 'tea money' of those Government personnel who are on those very low salaries.

So he must get the subject talked about, so he can get his position across.

Behind the scenes, he is locked in a power struggle with the highly-placed bureaucrats, whose power is threatened by an effective, business-man parliament.

PAD only got him rocky and can't defeat him at the polls.

But the bureaucracy saw their chance when he was rocky.

Every day that goes by without Thaksin 'throwing in the towel' increases the chances that Taksin will be the powerful figure in the parliamentary side of the power struggles to come.

Thais are no different from other nationalities, when the chips are down.

They would like their leader to be ethical and competent. But if they can't find somebody who is both, they will go for one who is competent, and (like or lump it) that one is Thaksin.

[Netfan]

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The fact is that no matter what he says or does someone will be screaming. I think it's jealousy. I can still remember when it was normal and accepted that the provincial heads took 25 percent of the federal money for their pockets. The police and other government officials still take bribes and since this is as it has always been changes are slow to come. It will be at least another generation before there are major changes. All the big shots have lots of things they can tell about the others. The practice is that you don't rat on me and I won't rat on you. When they are dead and gone there may or may not be changes. This is Asia. Show me an Asian country that is different.

Last time I was in Singapore there was a story in the Straits Times about a policeman who was dismisssed from the force- not for taking a bribe- but for not reporting that a bribe had been offered. Didnt the son of the Pres of South Korea just get sent to prison for corruption? And i believe the ex-president of one of japan's largest corporations just got some time in the slammer, too. The point is these countries have actually done someting about trying to stop corruption. And people learn that if the government sets an example, then something must be wrong with it. But here (and Cambodia, India, Indonesia...) it's the way the goveernments do business, so it must be okay for the rest of us. Maybe he should try leading by example.

[penzman]

I'm still waiting for bribes, if he says so.

[Kananga]

Whatever his merits, Dr T is spot on. People will always look for the path of least resitance. People will look for the weak spots in any system, and use it to their advantage.

I disagree. Dishonest people would, but people who have respect, honour, dignity and all those other old fashioned values wouldnt. Especially people in positions of authority.

[Donz]

Well to tell you the truth, if I was a politician I would probaly bribe everyone

[Mobi]

Whatever his merits, Dr T is spot on. People will always look for the path of least resitance. People will look for the weak spots in any system, and use it to their advantage.

I disagree. Dishonest people would, but people who have respect, honour, dignity and all those other old fashioned values wouldnt. Especially people in positions of authority.

Spot on.

Someone, somewhere, somehow has to make a stand against this endemic corruption.

Sure it can't be wiped out over night, sure it will probably take years, decades even, but if you don't make a start, it will never happen.

This country needs a 'clean' leader who can make a start, not an apologist who's own hands, and that of his family are so deep in the corruption trough that they will never eradicate the stench.

As a previous poster said, Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea have made tremendous inroads in eradicating corruption, so why not Thailand?

[samran]

As a previous poster said, Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea have made tremendous inroads in eradicating corruption, so why not Thailand?

That is the billion dollar question. What were the unique set of circumstances that were common in each of the situation? Who knows?

I'd take Singapore off that list however. It is just as corrupt as anywhere else. Dear Leader is doing his best to emulate that model.