German bar owner murdered on Koh Samui island

[mrdougjoy]

This was about much more than someone sitting on your bike.....

[dictater]

So tired of reading these loss of face excuses, If that was a Thai friend of mine he would have gone ballistic and started a fight with all of them, yes I have seen it, these guys weren't just hanging out, they were starting trouble.

[schvonsky1]

I hope they hang them.

Yes defiantly need to be <deleted> hanged the scumbags always carry a can of cs it comes in very handy he will of been alive if he had some poor chap RIP

[BeforeTigers]

What ever happened to eye for an eye.

[Boyce]

I was Samui next month for 3 weeks , but i don't think i'll bother now after reading this sad story .

RIP

[Billy The Kid]

Someone sitting on your bike, happened to me before, just smile at them, they move off, and you get on with your life

Most sensible post ...

[Number 3]

So he didn't smile. And he dies. And this can even be a topic of discussion. I crossed the road once and didn't look but made it across ok. Therefore I will always cross the road without looking and always make it across safely. Logic and reasoning at its finest.

Bravo.

[Ling Kae]

only 7 years ago when I first arrived Samui was the premier place to head to when on leave, today it's a rubbish dump of mafia corruption blood alcohol money Dutch courage and ya ba. ( no offence to any Dutch nationals meant here )

What happened Samui?

I was there for holidays 6 weeks ago and saw no fights or evidence of "mafia corruption blood alcohol money Dutch courage and ya ba". But then again I don't hang around people like that in the first place. Doesn't anyone just have a few beers on the beach just before sun goes down these days anymore? It was so relaxing and not the slightest bit of agreassion anywhere. It's still a top place for a holiday.

As for the 3 that have confessed to this mans murder, nothing short of 20 years in an adult prison would be enough.

[dagobert]

only 7 years ago when I first arrived Samui was the premier place to head to when on leave, today it's a rubbish dump of mafia corruption blood alcohol money Dutch courage and ya ba. ( no offence to any Dutch nationals meant here )

What happened Samui?

I was there for holidays 6 weeks ago and saw no fights or evidence of "mafia corruption blood alcohol money Dutch courage and ya ba". But then again I don't hang around people like that in the first place. Doesn't anyone just have a few beers on the beach just before sun goes down these days anymore? It was so relaxing and not the slightest bit of agreassion anywhere. It's still a top place for a holiday.

As for the 3 that have confessed to this mans murder, nothing short of 20 years in an adult prison would be enough.

Thats the same as when "Tourists" come here to Bali its a great place for a holiday and

a wined down but when you are here for any length of time the colour tends to fade

and you see a place for what it truely is. All these places of Tourism are the same when

the fluff wears off.

[Tropicalevo]

only 7 years ago when I first arrived Samui was the premier place to head to when on leave, today it's a rubbish dump of mafia corruption blood alcohol money Dutch courage and ya ba. ( no offence to any Dutch nationals meant here )

What happened Samui?

I was there for holidays 6 weeks ago and saw no fights or evidence of "mafia corruption blood alcohol money Dutch courage and ya ba". But then again I don't hang around people like that in the first place. Doesn't anyone just have a few beers on the beach just before sun goes down these days anymore? It was so relaxing and not the slightest bit of agreassion anywhere. It's still a top place for a holiday.

Well said

[BigC]

I reckon there is more to this than just people attacking him cause he was in a bike

I am only guessing but they could have been waiting for him at his bike because they knew that he would have to come back to it

Reckon there is more to be uncovered

People don't kill people for someone having a go at them for sitting on a bike unless he was proper aggressive

Something tells me they were waiting for him at his bike

Maybe he had a running with them before

Maybe from his bar who know as I say only guessing but becareful to assume they killed him for him having a go at him for sitting on his bike

[HooHaa]

The German man reportedly became angry and began arguing with the teenagers

Not saying that he deserved to die, but unless he'd only been in LOS 5 minutes he'd obviously learned nothing about the reality here.

You mean people who live here longer know that if they get deservedly angry they are at risk to get killed ?

Deservedly has nothing to do with it.

See my edited version of your statement below.

You mean people who live here longer know that if they get angry they are at risk to get killed ? Yes.

Why would one choose to live in a country where he constantly has to live in fear?

one doesn't live in fear. One lives with an awareness of the potential consequences of their actions, especially at 4 am (or thereabouts) in a venue where drugs and or alcohol are being copiously consumed by a significant number of the customers foreign or local alike.

[Sarana]

I just brush them away like flies...but maybe gang murder or mafia hit as per previous post

[dagobert]

Ah very Observent my dear Watson there could be a Reason....

[zorgan]

Very sad story, considering I had been drinking with this guy in bar about 5 days ago before that happened. My thai girlfriend told me the whole story about that accident. It wasn't only about people seating on someone's motorbike. So, that's what she told me:

That night he met a girl in sound club, who actually worked with him in his bar 99. But she has a thai boyfriend (the 1st guy from the left on the picture with 3 thai guys, usual story, isnt it?). But she told to this German guy that that's just her brother. Inside sound club, German wanted this thai girl go with him, but thai men didn't want. They had kinda agressive talk in which German said something like "I have money, I can do what I want and take who I want" which made thai guys really angry . Later that girl told to her thai boyfriend that she doesn't want go with german farang, but then went with him in Thai men's back. They probably saw it and waited him near German's bike, and had an agressive talk again, which ended by a murder. I live here for about year and half and can give advice for everyone: better never fight with thai men for girl. that's really not worth it, if she really wants stay with you, she needs to break all her thai relationships before, but for girl-one-night that's really not worth it.

[BigC]

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Very sad story, considering I had been drinking with this guy in bar about 5 days ago before that happened. My thai girlfriend told me the whole story about that accident. It wasn't only about people seating on someone's motorbike. So, that's what she told me:

That night he met a girl in sound club, who actually worked with him in his bar 99. But she has a thai boyfriend (the 1st guy from the left on the picture with 3 thai guys, usual story, isnt it?). But she told to this German guy that that's just her brother. Inside sound club, German wanted this thai girl go with him, but thai men didn't want. They had kinda agressive talk in which German said something like "I have money, I can do what I want and take who I want" which made thai guys really angry . Later that girl told to her thai boyfriend that she doesn't want go with german farang, but then went with him in Thai men's back. They probably saw it and waited him near German's bike, and had an agressive talk again, which ended by a murder. I live here for about year and half and can give advice for everyone: better never fight with thai men for girl. that's really not worth it, if she really wants stay with you, she needs to break all her thai relationships before, but for girl-one-night that's really not worth it.

yes i thought there was more to it. Looks like the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit.

I personally don't like forags that reckon they have money and can by anything and give it the large.

I know in this case it might not have been like that but i have seen some froangs that walk around as if they own the place.

just waiting for them to pick on the wrong person. then see how much money they can flash around once brown

[Tchooptip]

only 7 years ago when I first arrived Samui was the premier place to head to when on leave, today it's a rubbish dump of mafia corruption blood alcohol money Dutch courage and ya ba. ( no offence to any Dutch nationals meant here )

What happened Samui?

I was there for holidays 6 weeks ago and saw no fights or evidence of "mafia corruption blood alcohol money Dutch courage and ya ba". But then again I don't hang around people like that in the first place. Doesn't anyone just have a few beers on the beach just before sun goes down these days anymore? It was so relaxing and not the slightest bit of agreassion anywhere. It's still a top place for a holiday.

Well said

Absolutely +1

[phanangpete]

Is this the new Thailand, or are we just fooling ourselves, im of the belief that the good General has no hope of changing the culture, ofcourse this would happen in many slums around the globe.

This was not a slum , it was in a very popular tourist area where any of us could have been.

If they are caught (unlikely) they should be made an example off, ie: high profiled by the press in Thai news papers and given very stiff sentences for murder, if it dosen't happen thai teenagers will continue to do these evil crimes, they have no belief in what is wrong or right, how do you change that ?

[dagobert]

I belive it will take time, but cannot be achived over night,

firstly the whole place needs to be cleared out the (slums) then once cleared the the job is

made easyer when the criminal element can be seen, The start was removal of illegal buildings

"Correct" then the licencing regulations, slowly slowly things will get better but it might take

up to 5 years to see the advantage of what is now happening but it will improve in time.

A lot of the things that have drawn all the farang population will still be there minus a few bars

but it will be underground (not seen) as it is now. Thailand wants a clean safe image and if

everybody understands this it will happen peacfully in time.

[laislica]

Shame the poor guy didnt even get to hospital, his wife should have used something (like her jacket or something) and wrapped it around his neck to reduce bleeding while arranging a baht bus to rush him to hospital.

People should have reacted quickly to save him. Not being negative but I bet the Thai's just stood there and didnt do anything (ive seen that before, I was the only person who helped a guy that had a hole in his head gushing out blood with every heart beat, I tried to stop the bleeding with make shift items at the road side)

A Good Samaritan and well done, but in this day of AIDS, I hope you wore protective goggles, rubber gloves etc.

Where blood is free flowing I can understand why a bystander would not want to touch.

His gf is a different matter, but under those terrible circumstances, people react differently.

Some may be able to cope like you but others may lock up in shock.

Have you had some training in this type of rescue?

Many posters seem to have the idea that the victims behaviour may have provoked the situation and that the problem is with alcohol and teens, worldwide, and much caution should be taken so as to avoid confrontation - I agree 100%.

We should learn from this and then his death will not be in vain.

RIP

[laislica]

I belive it will take time, but cannot be achived over night,

firstly the whole place needs to be cleared out the (slums) then once cleared the the job is

made easyer when the criminal element can be seen, The start was removal of illegal buildings

"Correct" then the licencing regulations, slowly slowly things will get better but it might take

up to 5 years to see the advantage of what is now happening but it will improve in time.

A lot of the things that have drawn all the farang population will still be there minus a few bars

but it will be underground (not seen) as it is now. Thailand wants a clean safe image and if

everybody understands this it will happen peacfully in time.

I agree with you, a lot of time is needed.

How many hundreds of years did it take to stabilise Europe?

Are we there yet? Russia v Ukraine, UK v Southern Ireland, the Bask people in France/Spain, England v Scotland.

To mention just a few.

On the other hand, the Wild West has many benefits over the PC over controlled West!

Singapore is an example, 56-60 years ago it was a lawless and fun place.

Now it is squeaky clean.

I am not saying it is bad, a bit boring maybe?, compared with the earlier days.

China town and Buggis Street, both gone but is Singapore better for that?

On one hand yes and the other no.

Before you had the choice to go there or not - now there is no choice.

BTW, I love Singapore anywhere it comes.

[joedot]

"Here lies the body of William Jay,

Who died maintaining his right of way.

He was right as right as he sped along,

But now he lay dead, as though he'd been wrong."

Who cares if they were wrong to attack him. Of course they were, everybody knows that. The point is, was it worth it to lose your life to prove your point. Diffuse the situation. Or go to your grave knowing you were right. For anyone with half a brain it seems obvious what the correct course should be. Rushing to anger is never the right choice. Just as protecting a purse or wallet is never better than protecting your life. Unless you don't value your life very highly and the choice is yours.

[Duggsie]

Appears to be another "Westerner commits suicide" to me.

My sincere condolences to the victim's family and loved ones but, in "The land of smiles" you have to keep your head down, if you want to stay alive that is.

Dodge City in the 19th Century doesn't even come close (not when the local Marshall is actually on the side of the bad guys, not the good ones).

The wild west has nothing on the new wild east.

So sad. So uncalled for.

[Lex Talionis]

Who cares if they were wrong to attack him. Of course they were, everybody knows that. The point is, was it worth it to lose your life to prove your point. Diffuse the situation. Or go to your grave knowing you were right. For anyone with half a brain it seems obvious what the correct course should be. Rushing to anger is never the right choice. Just as protecting a purse or wallet is never better than protecting your life. Unless you don't value your life very highly and the choice is yours.

Cut the victim some slack, dog. Do you think people in an altercation choose to get angry? Emotions, as we all know, have a life of their own, over which the rational part of our brain has little or no control. And especially with judgement clouded by alcohol.

[ClutchClark]

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Very sad story, considering I had been drinking with this guy in bar about 5 days ago before that happened. My thai girlfriend told me the whole story about that accident. It wasn't only about people seating on someone's motorbike. So, that's what she told me:

That night he met a girl in sound club, who actually worked with him in his bar 99. But she has a thai boyfriend (the 1st guy from the left on the picture with 3 thai guys, usual story, isnt it?). But she told to this German guy that that's just her brother. Inside sound club, German wanted this thai girl go with him, but thai men didn't want. They had kinda agressive talk in which German said something like "I have money, I can do what I want and take who I want" which made thai guys really angry . Later that girl told to her thai boyfriend that she doesn't want go with german farang, but then went with him in Thai men's back. They probably saw it and waited him near German's bike, and had an agressive talk again, which ended by a murder. I live here for about year and half and can give advice for everyone: better never fight with thai men for girl. that's really not worth it, if she really wants stay with you, she needs to break all her thai relationships before, but for girl-one-night that's really not worth it.

yes i thought there was more to it. Looks like the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit.

I personally don't like forags that reckon they have money and can by anything and give it the large.

I know in this case it might not have been like that but i have seen some froangs that walk around as if they own the place.

just waiting for them to pick on the wrong person. then see how much money they can flash around once brown

Hold on, Big C, and consider this again. How many farangs here don't have cash involved in their Thai romances? None. I am happily married to a Thai woman and its sure not free and she is no spring chicken. But she has sons' Uni costs and money for her folks to consider. My point is a farang paying for a Thai romance does not equate with flashing money around.

In the above description its the Thai girlfriend who was double-dipping and leading both boyfriends along. Sure, now that the German is dead she tells this girlfriend a story that absolves her of any guilt--but she could have easily told the German she had broken up with her Thai man because he was abusive, etc--and we have all heard this story before.

And this idea that the Thai guy just went there and sat on the Germans bike only to have a nice chitchat is BS--he brought three amigos. When a guy does that then he is not looking to make friends in any country and in any language.

For all we know the German, who was no stranger to Thai testosterone and alcohol since he owned a popular bar might have very well walked away and they wouldn't let him until he was taught a lesson.

The only evidence to the contrary is a two-timing Thai bargirl who is now back with the murdering boyfriend. Not much credibility in her story since she was already a proven liar.

But the thing is this is another example of the lack of safety in Thailand. And before anyone starts, no, this doesn't happen everywhere.

Cheers Big C. Hope you got that dog problem resolved amicably.

[BigC]

Very sad story, considering I had been drinking with this guy in bar about 5 days ago before that happened. My thai girlfriend told me the whole story about that accident. It wasn't only about people seating on someone's motorbike. So, that's what she told me:

That night he met a girl in sound club, who actually worked with him in his bar 99. But she has a thai boyfriend (the 1st guy from the left on the picture with 3 thai guys, usual story, isnt it?). But she told to this German guy that that's just her brother. Inside sound club, German wanted this thai girl go with him, but thai men didn't want. They had kinda agressive talk in which German said something like "I have money, I can do what I want and take who I want" which made thai guys really angry . Later that girl told to her thai boyfriend that she doesn't want go with german farang, but then went with him in Thai men's back. They probably saw it and waited him near German's bike, and had an agressive talk again, which ended by a murder. I live here for about year and half and can give advice for everyone: better never fight with thai men for girl. that's really not worth it, if she really wants stay with you, she needs to break all her thai relationships before, but for girl-one-night that's really not worth it.

yes i thought there was more to it. Looks like the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit.

I personally don't like forags that reckon they have money and can by anything and give it the large.

I know in this case it might not have been like that but i have seen some froangs that walk around as if they own the place.

just waiting for them to pick on the wrong person. then see how much money they can flash around once brown

Hold on, Big C, and consider this again. How many farangs here don't have cash involved in their Thai romances? None. I am happily married to a Thai woman and its sure not free and she is no spring chicken. But she has sons' Uni costs and money for her folks to consider. My point is a farang paying for a Thai romance does not equate with flashing money around.

In the above description its the Thai girlfriend who was double-dipping and leading both boyfriends along. Sure, now that the German is dead she tells this girlfriend a story that absolves her of any guilt--but she could have easily told the German she had broken up with her Thai man because he was abusive, etc--and we have all heard this story before.

And this idea that the Thai guy just went there and sat on the Germans bike only to have a nice chitchat is BS--he brought three amigos. When a guy does that then he is not looking to make friends in any country and in any language.

For all we know the German, who was no stranger to Thai testosterone and alcohol since he owned a popular bar might have very well walked away and they wouldn't let him until he was taught a lesson.

The only evidence to the contrary is a two-timing Thai bargirl who is now back with the murdering boyfriend. Not much credibility in her story since she was already a proven liar.

But the thing is this is another example of the lack of safety in Thailand. And before anyone starts, no, this doesn't happen everywhere.

Cheers Big C. Hope you got that dog problem resolved amicably.

What dog problem?

How do too know she has run off with the killers

You seem to know more than what is posted

Or maybe I haven't read an article

I was not directing my anger at this particular German but was using this as an example as to what I have seen in samui over he years

Have seen some really nasty forangs that reckon they have a bit of doh and reckon they own the place

Only when they take a beating to they find our they are nothing

I don't know if this German was giving it the large or not

Seems to me that hey were waiting for him outside and where does one normally return to when they leave somewhere

there vehicle !

So I reckon there is more to it than they killed him because they would not get off his bike

Also you seem to be attacking his wife

Unless you know something I don't why do you assume she is to blame

Also what is giving money ones misses got to do with anything

I doubt he was killed for not giving enough to his misses

What I meant by flashing money around is when people have an argument and hey assume they can sort it because they have loads of money

The old saying" I have money I pay people to make trouble for you "

Now forang saying that to a Thai would be really offensive and pushing the grounds for them to flip

Not saying he did that but as I said I have met so many forangs that like to re invent themselves as gangsters out here until they get the crap smashed out of them

[daveAustin]

yes i thought there was more to it. Looks like the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit.

I personally don't like forags that reckon they have money and can by anything and give it the large.

I know in this case it might not have been like that but i have seen some froangs that walk around as if they own the place.

just waiting for them to pick on the wrong person. then see how much money they can flash around once brown

Are you new to Thailand?

In this case, perhaps, but it doesn't take much for a native male to flip, especially when around friends to potentially lose more face as well as gain face through showing off. Yes there are twatish farangs but this is all on the Thais, stop sticking up for them.

[richardblanc]

The German guy was a member of the Outlaws MC . I know these bikers go nuts if anyone touches their bikes so i can imagine this had something to do with the speed the incident descended into violence

Can anyone verify he was a member? If true these 3 teenagers might have extra problems.

he wasn't a member of OUTLAWS MC

richard1%er AOA

what make you say that ?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Another example of peaceful Thailand. Education and behavior of many youths far below average level because of failed education system.

Did we read the same news article...I seem to recall it was the German who became angry and argumentative upon seeing some kids sitting in his moto (a not uncommon occurrence in Thailand). If he had politely indicated it was his moto I'm sure they would have hopped off and Mr. German would have been on his way and alive today.

It seems some people have to learn manners and anger management the very hard way.