Pros and Cons of wearing high-vis colors in Thailand

[wantan]

I always wanted to start a discussion on this. And i am interested in what others think about wearing high-viz-colors in Thailand

Personally i am not sure high-viz colors in sunlight/daylight (especially in Thailand) are always the better choice. I guess sometimes they may are in really heavy rain, but sometimes a dark color can be more visible.

And i am not the only one thinking this:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2013/jan/10/cycling-high-visibility-safe-fluorescent

"In urban roads, where the background surrounding the PTW was more complex and multi-colored, the reflective and white outfits increased its attention conspicuity compared to the black outfit condition. In contrast, in inter-urban roads, where the background was solely a bright sky, the black outfit provided an advantage for the PTW detectability."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22062342

(PWT = powered two wheeler)

What do you think? Whats your strategy to "be seen" (regarding biking clothes/gear)?

[ktm jeff]

Headlight on , and assume nobody can see you. Defensive riding. Clothing colors can blend into varying backgrounds.

[ll2]

if rain gear, sure high viz anyway as environment is darker when it is raining.

and study posted says for urban environment high viz is better.

contrast plays a role but percentage of overall benefit at all conditions, high viz is better still it looks like high viz green is not good for a forest road same for a high viz yellow on sunny desert road etc.

[RubberSideDown]

I ride in the daytime with my HID lights on (yes, I occasionally get flashed by a car in the opposite lane, and I turn them down at stoplights and in slow traffic)- my bike is pretty noticeable from the rear as well (and I have a brake light modulator). I think hi-viz gear is probably worthwhile, but I mostly wear leather that's either black, white, or red- if hi-viz colors are an option, hi-lights in green or yellow aren't a bad idea, but I wouldn't choose either for the primary color as I can't say that I particularly notice what a rider is wearing (though I always notice bright headlights). I generally choose a helmet with some red in the pattern as I think it stands out.

Considering how many people are on the roads on two wheels in LOS, there's a multitude of colors worn by the various riders- I can't think of too many times when my eye has been drawn to bright clothing, but it certainly can't hurt. I have never given any thought to matching my colors to my driving route as suggested in the article in the OP- it's an interesting theory.

The bike mags rave about hi-viz, though...

[wantan]

if rain gear, sure high viz anyway as environment is darker when it is raining.

and study posted says for urban environment high viz is better.

contrast plays a role but percentage of overall benefit at all conditions, high viz is better still it looks like high viz green is not good for a forest road same for a high viz yellow on sunny desert road etc.

... or a high-vis yellow on a wet road in sunlight

There is always a "before and after the rain" in Thailand and often the rain comes and goes quickly with bright sunlight between the rainfalls. Then the reflection of the streets is so bright that people hardly see anything. And these are very dangerous situations imo because people start speeding again without having good vision. And it seems some studies say a dark color can be more visible in such situations.

Also i avoid riding in real heavy rain (the moments when it gets noticable darker because of dark clouds). Much too dangerous. You cannot see potholes, much less tire grip, cars with broken/old wipers without vision endangering you, ... If heavy rain starts i stop at the next shelter. So for my style of riding (mostly touring in daylight) i am not sure high-viz would be safer on rainy days.

Yes, bike mags rave about high-vis, but this is mostly in our homecountries, isnt it? In autumn/winter in London its a no brainer to wear bright colors, even at daylight (if there is any). Same riding at night in Thailand.

Maybe some day there is something like an "anti-chameleon jacket", that adjusts the color automatically to the opposite of the envirionment colors if possible.

[rambling]

I thought about this when I was shopping for gear and I also read those articles you posted. I think hi-viz can be useful but at the end of the day the gear I wanted did not have hi viz color options so I went with black or white where possible.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Thai driver hit things, such as motorbikes, not because they didn't see them, but because they JUST DONT CARE.

They do U turns when and where they want, pull up in the middle of a busy road to walk in to a 7 eleven to buy M150...and so on.

It follows that there is nothing to be gained from wearing Hi Vis.

[Garry]

Thai drivers are Saints compared to Arab drivers that I've had to contend with in the backwaters of the Middle East. The most hi-viz clothing that catches my attention is Day Glo orange.

Sent from my SM-T211 using Tapatalk

[wantan]

The most hi-viz clothing that catches my attention is Day Glo orange.

Good point. It sure depends on what hi-vis color is used. "Luminous_orange" or "Signal orange" seems better suited for daylight than "Luminous_yellow". It has the typical warning effect but is still visible against bright backgrounds.

Luminous_orange:

Signal orange:

Luminous yellow:

[dave_boo]

I use a reflective running belt (the Spandex variety so it stretches over and I don't have to worry about adjusting it or it flapping in the wind) that goes diagonally from shoulder to left ribs. Don't know if it really helps (use it early or late only), and I probably look like a twit wearing it...but it is a bit of safety gear to offset my black bike and black helmet/jacket.

[glegolo]

Me for one, when out bicycling NEVER wear black,,,,,It is way too hot to wear black, which attracts the heat that much, no thank you.

Gl.egolo

[Emster23]

Bright is bright. This whole discussion is based on assumption that eyes transmitting data are connected to an engaged mind of driver that is paying attention to external environment. Therein lies the rub.

[CBR250]

I would like to get some hi-viz rain gear. I don't want the heavy plastic stuff - far too hot. I have searched for a jacket/pants made from high-tec textiles that breathe and still are waterproof without luck. I currently have old bought-in-Japan rain gear that does the job well as it breathes, but it is quite dark, and has no reflective strips. Around town on the scooter I have a pvc raincoat (with sleeves, not the useless poncho style). It has a broad reflective stripe on the back, but again I would prefer a breathable high-viz raincoat. Hard to find with all the features in one unit.

[saramsland]

I always wanted to start a discussion on this. And i am interested in what others think about wearing high-viz-colors in Thailand

Personally i am not sure high-viz colors in sunlight/daylight (especially in Thailand) are always the better choice. I guess sometimes they may are in really heavy rain, but sometimes a dark color can be more visible.

And i am not the only one thinking this:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2013/jan/10/cycling-high-visibility-safe-fluorescent

"In urban roads, where the background surrounding the PTW was more complex and multi-colored, the reflective and white outfits increased its attention conspicuity compared to the black outfit condition. In contrast, in inter-urban roads, where the background was solely a bright sky, the black outfit provided an advantage for the PTW detectability."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22062342

(PWT = powered two wheeler)

What do you think? Whats your strategy to "be seen" (regarding biking clothes/gear)?

I agree with a number of other form members and I will say this. The majority of people see Hi-Vis to be reflectors and colours such as broght yellow or orange. In my line of work, those colours can match the scenary and we often wear dark blue to 'stand out from the crowd.. Or background' so when choosing colours just use your head and choose something that will stand out.

When choosing colours, some colours hold heat more than other due to the amount of light reflected.

When I am on my bike or in my car, the first thing I notice in the rain or at night of a bike or car is the rear tail light or headlight if they are driving in the opposite direction. So I would put strength, comfort and durability first on my choice of clothing before Hi-Vis or bright colours and ensure that my lights are fully functional and clear (no foggy, crusted or dirty lenses/reflectors and keep in mind that if age or larger globes have been used in your lights then the inner reflector can be damage and effect the amount of light spread.. Wattage is one thing but if you have a poor reflector it will go no where!) That and keep in mind of rainy day/night issues such as other drivers only seeing you last minute, playing with phones, talking with kids and daydreaming. I was once riding along Sukhumvit Rd between soi's 18 & 20 in my own lane whilst the car in the lane next to me was slowly veery towards me unknown to himself as he was busy watching cheap p*rn on his iPad! Due to no where for me to go with traffic front and back and him not responding to me tooting my little bike horn, a slight knock on his window got his attention. Not my preference of on-road communication but it was better than jumping the curb! Yes I was in the 3rd lane but I'm sure I'm not the only rider that does that.

All that said, i do believe Hi-Vis can help to be seen on the road but there is no point in being wet, cold and uncomfortable causing frustration and silly decisions than just looking like the latest version of Postman Pat.

Not a negative post, just emphasising that there are a lot of factors when choosing the correct gear

[The Usual Suspect]

When I ride my motorbike I always throw on a light weight hi-viz vest over whatever I'm wearing. I used to do the same in the west before I came over. Granted, a hi-viz outfit can't combat gross stupidity on the part of other drivers, but I think anything you can do to increase your visibility is a good thing. I'm even thinking of installing some side lights in addition to reflectors on my bike for night riding.

[Keesters]

When out for a walk I wear either bright orange or yellow shirt. My black dog wears a fluorescent yellow jacket. Not been hit yet but it's been close.

[ll2]

also, buying a bike and helmet with a bright color helps a great deal plus some small blinking leds with on your bike, not like they put on bicycles though, the ones blinking slowly.

that is why always buy a bright red bike same as my helmet.

[RedQualia]

This is Thailand. Half the drivers are unlicensed and untrained. Half the drivers also appear to be drunk. Half have a demonstrated ability to disregard all traffic laws or even considerations of basic courtesy. There can be considerable overlap between the "half the drivers" groups I talked about above, and so yes, it's possible - likely - to come across unlicensed, drunk and generally rude drivers out there. Nowhere else in the world have I ever seen a pickup truck full of people barreling toward me in the "fast lane," going the wrong way. At night. With no lights. And of course, there are always bikes going the wrong way on the sides of the road.

Anything you can do to make those around you more aware of your existence is a good thing. If DayGlo orange only saves your life one time, then that's better than zero times. But no... I don't always wear it.

Not mentioned anywhere above is sound/noise. My bike tends to be somewhat louder than most. Pretty much OK at idle, and not too rude at speed, either, though people can certainly hear it. How loud? There's a rental Versys in Chiang Mai with a Vance & Hines slip on that's a lot louder than my bike. Too, I'm an older guy, and not Johnnie Rocket Road Racer. The engine doesn't hit high RPMs very often, and I never try to be rude at all... Quite the opposite. No need to rev the engine again and again at a stoplight. But if I'm in traffic and want to be noticed, I can be. A couple of downshifts at speed, and it'll make plenty of noise. Or a blip of the throttle in a certain way in slow moving traffic, and people are suddenly very aware that I'm near.

The same consideration stated above with regard to DayGlo clothing applies to noise: if it saves your life even one time, that's better than zero times. And I know having the ability to make noise has saved my life at least once. Probably 2-3 times.

[amse]

What's a VIZZ? I know what a FIZZ is!

[Alwyn]

Hi Viz or not in Thailand makes no difference. The only thing that Thais recognize is "might is right" Bikes don't exist if the Thais are in a car, cars don't exist to pick up trucks, pick up trucks don't exist to panel vans, panel vans don't exist to truck drivers and nothing exists on the roads to the bus drivers, You could wear a colour-changing vest, have flashing lights 280 degrees around your crash helmet, 17 headlights and the World's loudest siren but some Lao KHoa fuelled dimwit in his pick up will still plough into you because he's in a pick up and you're on a bike

[Strangebrew]

Why make yourself a target? I just strap an airhorn on my pecker they might not see me but they will hear me.

[ll2]

Hi Viz or not in Thailand makes no difference. The only thing that Thais recognize is "might is right" Bikes don't exist if the Thais are in a car, cars don't exist to pick up trucks, pick up trucks don't exist to panel vans, panel vans don't exist to truck drivers and nothing exists on the roads to the bus drivers, You could wear a colour-changing vest, have flashing lights 280 degrees around your crash helmet, 17 headlights and the World's loudest siren but some Lao KHoa fuelled dimwit in his pick up will still plough into you because he's in a pick up and you're on a bike

still, high viz clothing makes difference.

I am not sure which part of Thailand those guys you mentioned lives?

Edited August 21, 2014 by ll2

[BlueSkyCowboy]

Headlight on , and assume nobody can see you. Defensive riding. Clothing colors can blend into varying backgrounds.

All cars should have headlights day and night

[Alwyn]

Hi Viz or not in Thailand makes no difference. The only thing that Thais recognize is "might is right" Bikes don't exist if the Thais are in a car, cars don't exist to pick up trucks, pick up trucks don't exist to panel vans, panel vans don't exist to truck drivers and nothing exists on the roads to the bus drivers, You could wear a colour-changing vest, have flashing lights 280 degrees around your crash helmet, 17 headlights and the World's loudest siren but some Lao KHoa fuelled dimwit in his pick up will still plough into you because he's in a pick up and you're on a bike

still, high viz clothing makes difference.

I am not sure which part of Thailand those guys you mentioned lives?

It might make a difference in the night time, but according to studies that's all. "Might is right" would be anywhere in Thailand

[wantan]

Headlight on , and assume nobody can see you. Defensive riding. Clothing colors can blend into varying backgrounds.

All cars should have headlights day and night

Imo its good if cars dont turn on lights at day, because then motorbikes (with lights on) get more attention. But cars should turn on their lights when its getting dark, in rain, fog, etc.

Seems many riders think high-vis clothing is good for increasing safety but most only use it for rain gear or from dusk till dawn. Guess for this its most useful. Guess we all dont want to look like traffic police, paramedics or road construction workers.

Imo the most effective way to increase "visibility safety" (to be seen) is adding lights to your bike to make its stand out from other bikes/vehicles. Or use brighter lights than the others, preferly without dazzling effect. Even in heavy rain/fog its mostly the lights that people see first.

[ttakata]

I can't imagine any con to wearing hi vis other than it gets dirty easy, but almost no riding jacket is entirely hi vis.

So I have highly reflective stickers on the back of my helmet and bike.

I stiched reflective yellow strips to the back of my jacket and think it must help at night.

I also used to ride with a hivis yellow helmet and following riders found it easy to track me in traffic.

The most effective thing is my bright blue LED underglow.

I can clearly see cars move apart in Bangkok when they see my bike coming up in between lanes.

Obviously it is most effective at night or during rain, so I don't even run it during the day.

I think only a wigwag on the headlight would help during the day.

Or flashing police lights, but I'm sure that can't be legal although I have seen a Harley running them once.

[ll2]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Imo its good if cars dont turn on lights at day, because then motorbikes (with lights on) get more attention. But cars should turn on their lights when its getting dark, in rain, fog, etc.

Seems many riders think high-vis clothing is good for increasing safety but most only use it for rain gear or from dusk till dawn. Guess for this its most useful. Guess we all dont want to look like traffic police, paramedics or road construction workers.

Imo the most effective way to increase "visibility safety" (to be seen) is adding lights to your bike to make its stand out from other bikes/vehicles. Or use brighter lights than the others, preferly without dazzling effect. Even in heavy rain/fog its mostly the lights that people see first.

that is why there are reflective parts in most of the jackets. They are for the night.

My only high vis gear is my rain suit but my jakcet has good amount sof reflective parts and headlight always on plus my signals have additona red stop light on them for added tail visibiliy fo rear endign incidents.

I can't imagine any con to wearing hi vis other than it gets dirty easy, but almost no riding jacket is entirely hi vis.

So I have highly reflective stickers on the back of my helmet and bike.

I stiched reflective yellow strips to the back of my jacket and think it must help at night.

I also used to ride with a hivis yellow helmet and following riders found it easy to track me in traffic.

The most effective thing is my bright blue LED underglow.

I can clearly see cars move apart in Bangkok when they see my bike coming up in between lanes.

Obviously it is most effective at night or during rain, so I don't even run it during the day.

I think only a wigwag on the headlight would help during the day.

Or flashing police lights, but I'm sure that can't be legal although I have seen a Harley running them once.

so, all those army, police, security, construction workers, traffic guys are out of their minds and wearing their to make it dirty?

And, i dont like reflective stickers or many leds on my bike or helmet It looks messy IMO. but some like it and no problems on having some extra visibility actually.

I will get two small leds blinking slowly - not the aggressivley blinkign ones that i hate on bicycles. and attache them to the rear and front end of my bike.

[andreandre]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Imo its good if cars dont turn on lights at day, because then motorbikes (with lights on) get more attention. But cars should turn on their lights when its getting dark, in rain, fog, etc.

Seems many riders think high-vis clothing is good for increasing safety but most only use it for rain gear or from dusk till dawn. Guess for this its most useful. Guess we all dont want to look like traffic police, paramedics or road construction workers.

Imo the most effective way to increase "visibility safety" (to be seen) is adding lights to your bike to make its stand out from other bikes/vehicles. Or use brighter lights than the others, preferly without dazzling effect. Even in heavy rain/fog its mostly the lights that people see first.

that is why there are reflective parts in most of the jackets. They are for the night.

My only high vis gear is my rain suit but my jakcet has good amount sof reflective parts and headlight always on plus my signals have additona red stop light on them for added tail visibiliy fo rear endign incidents.

I can't imagine any con to wearing hi vis other than it gets dirty easy, but almost no riding jacket is entirely hi vis.

So I have highly reflective stickers on the back of my helmet and bike.

I stiched reflective yellow strips to the back of my jacket and think it must help at night.

I also used to ride with a hivis yellow helmet and following riders found it easy to track me in traffic.

The most effective thing is my bright blue LED underglow.

I can clearly see cars move apart in Bangkok when they see my bike coming up in between lanes.

Obviously it is most effective at night or during rain, so I don't even run it during the day.

I think only a wigwag on the headlight would help during the day.

Or flashing police lights, but I'm sure that can't be legal although I have seen a Harley running them once.

so, all those army, police, security, construction workers, traffic guys are out of their minds and wearing their to make it dirty?

And, i dont like reflective stickers or many leds on my bike or helmet It looks messy IMO. but some like it and no problems on having some extra visibility actually.

I will get two small leds blinking slowly - not the aggressivley blinkign ones that i hate on bicycles. and attache them to the rear and front end of my bike.

"so, all those army, police, security, construction workers, traffic guys are out of their minds and wearing their to make it dirty?"

ttakata said he couldn't immagine anything at all against hi-viz except that it gets dirty easy...which it does..how does your reply relate to that?

[ll2]

I can't imagine any con to wearing hi vis other than it gets dirty easy, but almost no riding jacket is entirely hi vis.

So I have highly reflective stickers on the back of my helmet and bike.

I stiched reflective yellow strips to the back of my jacket and think it must help at night.

I also used to ride with a hivis yellow helmet and following riders found it easy to track me in traffic.

The most effective thing is my bright blue LED underglow.

I can clearly see cars move apart in Bangkok when they see my bike coming up in between lanes.

Obviously it is most effective at night or during rain, so I don't even run it during the day.

I think only a wigwag on the headlight would help during the day.

Or flashing police lights, but I'm sure that can't be legal although I have seen a Harley running them once.

srry ttakata.

busy day today at work. i noticed it but too late as cannot edit it anymore.

it is good that i have my stalker reporting these but please be faster next time!

[wantan]

Light colors get dirty easily. Same with white clothing. But on the other hand it should reflect sun better, so it gets less warm.

There is one big disadvantage for most people: It doesnt look "cool", "bad ass" or whatever you want to call it.

Can this lead to potential risks because people dont respect you if you "look like a chicken", loaded with all your security gear and dressed like a paramedic or road construction worker?

Maybe some truck driver thinks something like "This guy looks like a very cautious rider, sure he will see me and slow down if i start my u-turn now".

Or maybe you get too much attention, people pointing at you, making jokes and start making silly things? You never know whats happening next with some of the people around you here on the streets.

Fact is that in Thailand people are less used to such hi-vis security gear. So you might get attention but people do not react the way you want them to? I am writing this as a question because i am not sure about its relevance.