The Thai Schooling system - can you explain it?

[David48]

There is no such thing as the "thai school system" It is based on the preussan system. So is the rest of the world. All countries are adapted somewhat to their "purpose". Grammar, logic and rethoric is a nono. critical thinking is a nono. Schooling and education are mutually exclusive terms.

I have no idea what you are on about.

'preussan system' ... doesn't even make sense.

.

[David48]

Special mention to the member AyG ... has stayed on-topic.

Mate ... thanks ...

.

[David48]

As far as I know it goes like this:

Anubaan 1-3 (Nursery/Kindergarden)

Pratom - 1-6 (Primary School)

Matayom - 1-3 (compulsory) Secondary school

Matayom - 4-6 (optional) Secondary school (can also change to vocational course instead at this stage)

Mahavitiyalai - University - I'm not sure if teachers during M6 would help with the application process but at this stage the kids can apply for Uni

Can some of the learned folk review the table above?

Correct?

Also add some typical child's/teenager's age to the above.

As always ... thanks a heap.

I am learning by reading and your experience is being passed onto me ...

.

[a99az]

Teach them at home if you want them to have an education in Thailand. They can do it in there own language and sit exams in there home country. Don't wast there time by putting them in a Thai school, where even if they do well any qualification they get will be almost worthless.

If you or any one here does not agree, ask this of any Thai teacher: "If you could, would you swap you qualifications for the equivalent qualification in English?" I have never found one who would not. So what does that say?

[AyG]

There is no such thing as the "thai school system" It is based on the preussan system. So is the rest of the world. All countries are adapted somewhat to their "purpose". Grammar, logic and rethoric is a nono. critical thinking is a nono. Schooling and education are mutually exclusive terms.

I have no idea what you are on about.

'preussan system' ... doesn't even make sense.

.

I presume he's not a native English speaker. He means Prussian system. Wikipedia article about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system

He might be right with respect to Thailand. Certainly traditional Thai school uniforms were based upon a Germanic model.

[David48]

There is no such thing as the "thai school system" It is based on the preussan system. So is the rest of the world. All countries are adapted somewhat to their "purpose". Grammar, logic and rethoric is a nono. critical thinking is a nono. Schooling and education are mutually exclusive terms.

I have no idea what you are on about.

'preussan system' ... doesn't even make sense.

I presume he's not a native English speaker. He means Prussian system. Wikipedia article about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system

He might be right with respect to Thailand. Certainly traditional Thai school uniforms were based upon a Germanic model.

Thanks for that.

If that was the intent of the post and language was a barrier, then

Before I wrote the post, I did Goggle the term and looked at variations and didn't see a result.

Thanks AyG ...

.

[attrayant]

Before I wrote the post, I did Goggle the term and looked at variations and didn't see a result.

Maybe you've got your goggles on backwards.

[RED21]

As far as I know it goes like this:

Anubaan 1-3 (Nursery/Kindergarden)

Pratom - 1-6 (Primary School)

Matayom - 1-3 (compulsory) Secondary school

Matayom - 4-6 (optional) Secondary school (can also change to vocational course instead at this stage)

Mahavitiyalai - University - I'm not sure if teachers during M6 would help with the application process but at this stage the kids can apply for Uni

Can some of the learned folk review the table above?

Correct?

Also add some typical child's/teenager's age to the above.

As always ... thanks a heap.

I am learning by reading and your experience is being passed onto me ...

.

Let me try:

Anubaan 1-3 (Nursery/Kindergarden) (around 3 to 4 years old-6 years old)

Pratom - 1-6 (Primary School) (7 years old-12 years old)

Matayom - 1-3 (compulsory) Secondary school (13 years old-15 years old)

Matayom - 4-6 (optional) Secondary school (16 years old-18 years old)

Some schools offer Triam Anubaan (literally translated as Preparatory for Kindergarten) which is a bit bonkers I think, since kindergarten is in itself pre-school education... so it would mean pre-pre-school).

[avander]

I have worked 8 years at Thai govt. schools and now work at a private school. Still cannot explain "their" system.

Pretty much this.

.........

I know the Thailand uses the Rote system (i think that's correct, could be wrong) which involves a lot of repetition and copying from the board. I'm trying not to turn this into a Thai bashing post but very few Thai kids seem to develop skills to be able to think 'outside the box' or even think for themselves - again, I'm not saying this is the case for every kid but it was quite striking when I was teaching.

I now work in the private sector, nothing to do with teaching, but I see what impact the education system has had on Thai kids when I try to recruit Thai staff at work. I can get office girls who can sit and answer the phone, speak OK English and who can do general admin, but when we try and recruit some forward thinking, creative, graphic designer or web programmer, for example, it is incredibly difficult, almost impossible. Or when I do give a three month trial to a graphic designer, first day on the job when I ask him to design a web banner (give him spec and ideas of what I want), he says "show me a banner you like on another website and I can copy it". Not able to think for himself and hardly the creative type I was hoping for.

Anyway, mini rant over and apologies for going slightly off topic. That's two rants in as many weeks. What's happening to me?

English Program Schools

My wife and I have have two children, 8 and 12. They go to an EP (English Program) private school here in Pattaya.

For a reasonable definition of what the EP Schools are check out the following link: .http://eng.eduzones.com/blog/2011/01/26/bilingual-english-program-schools-ep-in-bangkok-and-thailand-2/

Their school is a middle of the range and not one of the massively expensive private schools. They have been there almost a year and I am less than impressed, sometimes wondering if they are, in fact, attending a remedial school..... God help us if they went to a Thai Government school.

English Learning

They advertise 70% of the curriculum is in English and they separate classes based on the numbers who are fluent in both or either Thai or English.

My 8yo is in P3 (Primary Year 3) and the 12yo is in S1 (Secondary or High School).

The kids spent 3 years in Australia going to school there and consequently were getting to be almost fluent in English. They were also learning "Thinking Skills" at school in Australia as evidenced by their homework and the approaches taught.

The 8yo was in Year 3 at Primary School and the 12yo was in Year 5 and jumped 1 year when arriving here. They were assessed by interview of the Head (English speaking) Teacher and given a brief English test before being placed in their original grades.

I have watched their English skills erode significantly as they use it less and less with myself being seemingly the only one who talks to them only in English (my Thai is abyssmal) and corrects their English.

When they arrived here the kids spoke to each other mainly in English and it is significant to note that now they communicate between themselves in Thai.

Teaching and Learning Thinking Skills

Nor do they appear to be taught much in the way of "Thinking Skills" by the school system and often by their parents who may be relying on the school system.

I see this with the little things at home all the time and it has always been a battle for me trying to teach them how to think but the penny didn't drop.

Then one day, in a fit of frustration, it hit me like a bolt of lightning when I was talking to the kids about doing their chores. They had no concept of how to plan and execute a plan. Very basically and keeping in mind this thread is for kids education ,this entails Preparation of what you will need and the steps to achieve your goal and the standards required, executing or doing the task/s; trying to do it to the standard and then tidy up or clean up and put everything you use back where it came from. That is only one area of learning thinking skills and if you want to look at more have a look at the following link which I found informative.

http://www.thinkingclassroom.co.uk/ThinkingClassroom/ThinkingSkills.aspx

The above is just my experience and I am not qualified as a children's teacher but have an Adult Education and Assessment qualification so understand basics of adult education. Kids, well, that's a little different but I try and after my epiphany my approach is more about how to get them to think about what they need to do.

Rant over.....

[BadBouy]

David,

No matter which country or which school if you are not involved with your child's education they are at far greater risk of not learning. No school teaches common sense. Find out what the curriculum is at the surrounding schools and make a choice that way. Do the best you can, Book smarts are a huge asset, but some children are gifted with different talents. Top priority is to raise a well rounded person equipped to deal with life.

Best wishes

[harrry]

I have a different view of the system here than many others, and this is despite having been involved in tertiary education in Australia.

Since I have been here this time (about 5 years) I have had two nieces in the system, One finished M6 last year eductated at a Thai high school and achieved a 3.2 gpa. She is now a student at a university here.

The younger one was educated at a catholic school and achieved a 3.7 gpa in p6. She is now studying in an EP plus program at a good thai high school.

My observation of the thai system is that in general they care for the kids, attendance is high and kids do like going to school. They do provide a wide range of activities, my oldest niece for a year subjected us to her violin practice (rarely thank god.) and had a range of sport and social excursions.

The schools here do have a function that is not performed much in the west. They attempt to turn out good Thai citizens who fit in to the community,

My observation is that for the student who is capable and willing to work they are excellent. However they do practice something which is not now liked in the west and that is streaming. Kids are placed in classes with people of the same level of demonstrated ability so if they have a bad year they end up in a poorer grade forever and as these classes are taught at the middle level of the class they will always be behind.

In Australia the resource and quality of education is high however they do have many who fall by the wayside. Truancy is quite a problem in many schools and a large percentage do leave with a level of education that is not sufficient for life in a developed country.

I can assure you that many of the students entering the TAFE colleges at year 12 to do Certificate or DIploma courses have really terrible maths skills and their other knowledge is fairly lacking. Many of these do better in the TAFE system after leaving school as the more applied and practical approach and the project based learning they often do does give more immediate reward to them. Most of them are not bad kids but they do not have a great start in life. Of course the better ones do go to University and I am sure most of them are at a higher level than an entry student here.

The old Chalk and talk and talk and talk is gradually being replaced by a more modern curriculum and methods (Much of which I understand has been based on that of Australian States but of course there is severe resistance to this from teachers who believe the old system is better. The same thing happened in Australia when the Competency Based Training was introduced into the TAFE system and teachers stuck to their old methods with terrible results. It took about 10 years until at least a fair semblance of what is required was achieved.

Education is a moving target so what applies now may not be what applies in the future. Everyone thinks the education they had was better than the students of now but in many cases if the papers of the executives that now claim that are studied it can be shown that results in fact now are not worse and are arguably better on the whole. People forget the very quick learning that takes place after they leave school and that is the whole purpose of education. To teach you to be able to learn in life.

[SlyAnimal]

Pre-School

Kindergarten/Pre-School/Day-care schools are usually referred to as "Anuban", and the starting age can vary, as some are are equivalent of kindergarten (4+) and others are the equivalent of kindergarten & day-care combined into one (3+). Anuban generally has 3x year levels, Anuban 1, 2 & 3, although schools which offer the more "day-care" facility might initially put young kids into Anuban 0. Some children are able to start Anuban early, before they actually turn 3 or 4, provided that they'll be turning 3 or 4 within the academic year.

Primary schools are called "Rongrian Prattom" and students attend after they finish at Anuban. They study at Prattom schools for 6 years, with each year being referred to as P1 P2 etc, although the P is replaced with bPor bPlaah (ป) when written in Thai, so it's commonly referred to as bPor 1, bPor 2 etc.

High school are called "Rongrian Mattayom" and students attend here after they finish at Prattom school. They study here for 6 years, with each year being referred to as M1, M2 etc, although the M is replaced with "Mor Maa" (ม) when written in Thai, so it's commonly referred to as Mor 1, Mor 2 etc.

Each of these is also divided into "Upper" and "Lower" primary/secondary, as per below:

P1 - P3 = Lower Primary or bPor dTon

P4 - P6 = Upper Primary or bPor bPlai

M1 - M3 = Lower Secondary or Mor dTon

M4 - M6 = Upper Secondary or Mor bPlai

When competing in sports competitions or academic contests, the students are often competing in these groups, although sometimes will compete in just their year group.

School is compulsory in Thailand from Prattom 1 through until the end of Mattayom 3.

What do terms such as mean? ...

• K1 K6
  
  K1, K2 & K3 are I believe American terms for the years at Kindergarten, so may be used by international schools or by teachers on the forums here when referring to Anuban schools. This is simply a difference in translation, just as sometimes people will refer to P1 - P6 as Grade 1-6 and M1 - M6 as Grade 7 - 12.
  
• Mattayom 4
  
  As per above, Mattayom 4 is the equivalent of Grade 10 by American standards. The full name is actually Mattayom Suksa, but can also be shortened to Mor.
  
• OFSTED - No idea

• BMA primary school - No idea

• Aubaan 1
  
  As mentioned above, this is the equivalent of K1, and is the first year of Kindergarten.
  
• M5, M6
  
  As mentioned above, this is the equivalent of Grade 11 and 12 respectively, with the M standing for Mattayom suksa, which can also be shortened to Mor. Mattayom is generally translated as High School, and Suksa as study.
  
• An 'EP' School
  
  This generally stands for English program, for which the definition varies. Some consider it to only include "Full" English programs, where the students study all/most subjects in English. Although people often also refer to "Mini English Programs" and "Bi-Lingual Programs" as being English programs. A mini or Bi-lingual program usually offers some subjects (e.g. Maths/Science) which are taught in Thai, and also taught in English as well.
  

• A STA 800 (for maths) - no idea

• iGSCE exams - I think these are the UK national exams, but someone else can confirm.

• Thai M6 Cert
  
  The certificate which a student gains for having successfully completed M6 (Mattayom Suksa 6 or Grade 6). This is basically a certificate to say they've completed high school. If a student initially drops out of high school, they can also obtain this certificate by attending classes at the Gor Sor Nor, or School for Non-Formal Education, which is basically a school for adults, and is generally available in every Tambon (Subdistrict)

• A P6
  
  Prattom Suksa 6 or bPor 6 or Grade 6, this is the last year of primary school (Prattom School).
• O-NET and A-NET
  
  O-NET stands for Ordinary National Education Test (I think), and students take it in P6, M3 and M6. This is a multi choice test, but is generally regarded as a very difficult exam, but a very important one. It often receives criticism because some of the questions are subjective or simply too difficult.
  
• IB
  
  I haven't seen this offered in Thailand,but at my high school in NZ, this referred to the International Baccalaureate, which is an international standard of achievement which requires students to make achievements both inside and outside of the classroom. It's usually taken in addition to the standard courses of the national education system and is often expensive, but adds an extra feather in the student's cap (In exchange for a lot of additional work).

• Is there such beasts as 'Semi-Government' schools? - Not to the best of my knowledge

• How do children enter University?
  
  Students can apply for university based on their O-NET results and grades from their school. Some universities will also have their own private entrance examinations.
  

My gf's Niece was going to a Temple 'Sunday School'.

• Temple Sunday Schools ... how do they work? - Sorry I can't help here

• Are there Temple schools which replace the State based Schools?
  
  Yes, Temple schools can be atteneded in place of standard state schools. I believe that there are also Temple tertiary education centres which offer courses related to Buddhism.
  

• When and why do the Thai girls all get that 'Bob Style Haircut?

I believe that this is from the time they goto Anuban until they finish Mattayom 6. Although some schools have a more relaxed policy on hair, and indeed I believe last year the government made it no longer mandatory for students to have short hair. Although I think they must have given the schools a certain amount of leeway, as many schools are definitely still enforcing haircuts.

I hope that this is of some assistance, I wasn't able to answer them all, but did what I could.

[cardinalblue]

One Thai university in the top ranked 400 universities in the world...

That should tell you a lot!

CB

[David48]

<snip>

I hope that this is of some assistance, I wasn't able to answer them all, but did what I could.

Awesome effort and warmly appreciated.

Don't forget the 2nd Bledisloe Cup match is on this afternoon ... 2pm Thai Time @ Eden Park.

.

[Newguy70]

The no fail policy is true as I've had to endure it while teaching at a government school with EP programs. The EP programs would let anyone who would pay in even if they failed the oral and written entrance exams which were very basic.

In my opinion the schools are only partially to blame as the rest would fall on the parents as well. Most of the teachers were just winging it and playing games which was quite sad to have to watch.

I also think the affection that Thai teachers show for the students is unlike anything I have ever seen. This to me has more cons then pros when one is attempting to be objective.

Most of the Thai teachers I met got into the field due to the benefits, pay etc.

[jacky54]

How is it that every mall I go to in the week, no matter what time, there are scores of school kids in uniform wandering about, and no nearby Schools normally. There must be little monitoring of them as long as they register in the mornings? after that it seems they can do what they like and go where they like. Quite a few Thai teachers in our family, but I have yet to see one real book in any of their homes and if asked what's wrong with the education system they will say low pay.

[Gecko123]

I hope the following comments will help people understand some of the challenges Thailand's public school system faces:

1. The resources devoted to educational development, particularly in rural Thailand are limited because Thailand is not a wealthy country. I suspect rural education has also been historically neglected, especially when compared with Bangkok.

2. The Thai culture seems to value non-confrontation and maintaining social cohesion. These are wonderful cultural traits which I truly cherish, but sometimes in the process accountability for school administrators, teachers and students can fall by the wayside.

3. The parent-teacher teamwork bond that is encouraged in the West does not appear to be especially encouraged in Thailand. Parents seem to be very reluctant to meddle or question a teacher's judgement, and I suspect that some Thai teachers are quite happy with this arrangement. But the downside from a teacher's viewpoint is that the parents are not a readily available resource for ironing out disciplinary or performance problems, or making sure that the students have all the resources and encouragement that you might otherwise hope for.

4. There seems to be a somewhat fatalistic approach to whether the individual student applies his or her self to their studies. If the student isn't applying themselves, there isn't much social pressure for them to change. Thai students don't seem to be as academically competitive as Western and Chinese and Japanese students seem to be. So competition can't always be used as a motivational tool.

5. In rural Thailand, urbanization trends are very powerful and are accelerating. Parents of school age children are often forced to seek work in urban centers such as Bangkok. This more often than not leaves the children being cared for by relatives who may or may not be able to supervise them properly. Attendance and homework can be a significant problem. Along these same lines, another economic reality which impacts Thai education is that oftentimes from a very early age, and certainly once they become teenagers, kids, out of sheer economic necessity, have to help their parents work in activities such as babysitting, farming or selling produce at the market. This can really take a bite out of the amount of time a student has to study, even if the student is highly motivated to study.

6. Finally, in smaller rural schools there can be a very wide range of academic ability lumped into a single classroom. Also, there aren't many special needs schools in Thailand for kids with learning or physical disabilities. The only options available to parents are for these children to stay at home or go to the local school. These factors can make teaching somewhat challenging.

[BAYBOY]

Gecko123,

Some of the best comments I have read on Thai Visa about education in Thailand.

A couple of points... Thailand is not a wealthy country yet the biggest expense/ cost in this years budget is for education... nearly 20% of Govt spending, So much of this is mis-spent, wasted, etc. that in the end the children suffer. Go to your provincal Education Dept. and see how many staff are employed to run the province's schools.There are people everywhere doing the usual... playing facebook, eating, walking from desk to desk, and showing no purpose in their job.

.......... There seems to be little effort to encourage the students to achieve. Sure the smart/ cleaver/ pushed ones will do well but I never see any awards for excellence, effort, as I had in my days at school. Any one know of a " dux" at a Thai School?

.......... The almost total lack of parental involvement in the schools The principal and assistants run the ship and the parents only front up on 'social days'. I have been at a Primary school here for 14 years and have never known a parent to be called in to discuss their childs schooling, or to talk to the parents of the naughty students. The schools seem so reluctant to ensure that the parents and the school have a role to play together in assisting the childs schooling and development.

.......... The teachers I have known are all doing their best for the students and the school but work long hours 8am to 5 pm on school days plus most Saturdays. By the end of a term they are tired and then would only have the odd day away from the school during term breaks.

Sure there are faults, but in time I am positive things in Thai schools will improve. Change is hard to make in this Country, but the internet age is pushing the boundarys a little.

To teachers who have been here for 10 or more years I say. Look at the text books from your first days teaching to the text books used today. Quite a turnaround and a start hopefully.Rome was not built in a day.

BAYBOY

[SlyAnimal]

Badboy, I'd like to disagree regarding no rewards for academic excellence.

To the best of my knowledge most schools have an equivalent of "Dean's Honours", with the recipients being given money in an envelope at a school assembly. At my school I think it was ฿500 or ฿1000 for all students with a GPA over 3.8 and these were given outo infront of the entire school with the top students from each year group getting a special mention. I think there were prizes for 1st in class aswell but I'm not sure.

I have also seen teacher/parental communication/feedback, but only in my school's English program, where parents would have meetings with the school and sometimes request changes to the program e.g. Special tutoring classes just before big exams etc.

All of the English Program homeroom teachers would also visit the parents of every student in the class, at their home (and take pictures of it to try and increase their pay grade). I'm not sure how much critical feedback is necessarily given when they do though, as Ithe main motivation I saw was increasing their pay grade.

Often get the impression in Thailand that parents think it's the responsibility of teachers to teach their students discipline and good study habits etc, when it should be a shared responsibility between teachers and parents.

[spidermike007]

Simplest way to explain their system, is that you have some elite families in Bangkok, that have a complete misunderstanding of how the world works. They somehow think that if you keep the population dumb, ignorant, and poorly educated, somehow you preserve wealth. They are completely unaware of the benefits of building a better, smarted, well educated society. How on earth does this hurt them, anyway? They have spent generations ensuring that the system is broken, and functions poorly. They seem to have resisted all efforts to reform the broken system. Somehow in China, Malaysia, and India, even though you have the same style of rote learning, you have a very educated class, that is able to perform well, at the international level. Thailand has been left behind. Someone should be help accountable for this travesty.

[BAYBOY]

Sly AnImal,

Re rewards for excellence. I know some, maybe most schools give money awards for getting a certain mark in end of term/ end of year exams. My son's school is giving 1000 baht to al who achieve 3.0 in end of first term exams. However as you know anything with a money reward given in this Country has to questioned, as to true fairness.

You are from New Zealand and will no doubt recall end of year prize giving at High School. Awards given to each class and then best in Form, awards given for sport, for diligence, behavior, assistance to the school. Meaning for the general student some award could be given but not just restricted to academic effort.

The prize giving attended by all of the students, and a huge proportion of parents, which again increases the school spirit.

The Dux of the school was the top award and usually was featured in the local newspaper, along with the full list of prize winners.

My point about awards is that all students should be at least able to possibly come first in some part of school activity.Here it is academic only to the top stream done at Assembly in the morning...... over and dusted by the afternoon.

BAYBOY.

[SlyAnimal]

Yeah you're right, last year when I looked at the awards in the school magazine, 90% of them were given to just 2x classes. For those classes it wasn't really something they had to strive to achieve, it was more "if you're a girl, or ladyboy, in these 2 classes and keep up with the others, you'll probably win a prize lol.

Not hugely motivating for the other students.

[David48]

Anyone want to tackle these ?

My gf's Niece was going to a Temple 'Sunday School'.

• Temple Sunday Schools ... how do they work?

• Are there Temple schools which replace the State based Schools?

• When and why do the Thai girls all get that 'Bob Style Haircut?