Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[neverdie]

Trained monkeys can earn 30k a month, dressing up and riding miniature bicycles.

People's needs are different.

Yours and Soutpeel's contempt and condescension are completely unwarranted and arrogant to an extreme.

I made really decent money in Vancouver, about $4500 a month. In one of the world's most expensive places to live, I would be hard pressed to put $300 of it away in the bank.

Here I make 30k baht and put 16k in the bank. I'm happy. I enjoy what I do, I enjoy my life in Thailand far better than at home.

I'm not jealous of richer people or more "successful" people like yourselves, but I certainly have no respect for the manner in which you seem to want to denigrate English teachers.

I never said anything negative about Teachers, but what I said was directed at another poster who I quoted directly above where I said what you quoted above (not sure that makes sense).

What I will say though is each to their own, you might choose to teach in Thailand, make $1000 USD a month and be happy saving $400USD a month but I wouldn't be. Your situation may be very different to mine and nowhere did I say anything about being richer or more successful than you or anyone, but the basic fact still stands, that's not much money, period. In fact, I will tell you, my aunt pushes a Som Tam & BBQ Cart and she makes more profit than that in a month and she struggles to survive on that.....and she's Thai, so I don't think I'm being unfair in suggesting there's no way I would do that. (As per my response to another poster on the page before the above comment).

Make no mistake about it, anything I said that made you feel that I was trying to denigrate English teachers is wrong, I simply was stating this is a VERY low amount of money in any mans language and it's completely possible that a monkey on a miniature bicycle is out earning this amount whether or not you like to hear that.

If you can build a future and live a happy life at that price point then kudos to you. I seriously doubt that it's an entirely sustainable option for any foreigner in Thailand, over the longer term. Perhaps I am wrong but saving $400 per month over a lifetime won't afford anyone much at all in retirement & no matter what way you spin that you will probably find that I'm right about that.

[JDGRUEN]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

I agree with you fully @istinspring, it is a big expectation that many people have about living here and the 'right' to some form of Visa.

I have seen first hand how difficult it is for Thai's and Indian's to get a UK Visa, a USA Visa or an Australian Visa. Even a visitor Visa is a challenge, let alone expecting to stay for six months or more or / and trying to work.

As a Brit, even getting a working visa in Australia was heaps of paperwork, exam certificates, company references, medicals etc.

All that said, there are some decent people living and retiring here and their spending power in Thailand makes them worthwhile to protect, so some form of process improvement needs to take place. I am not sure what we have going on now is going to weed out the undesirables, but perhaps its a start?

You are both completely clueless.

It isn't a double standard at all. There is a big difference.

Farang coming to stay in Thailand are putting money into the economy. Johnny Twofingers doesn't immigrate to BKK then jump on the dole, and get free medical/housing/education/food stamps/ etc. Nor is he working and then sending money back to the UK/US/AUS on his Thai salary.

Thais going to UK/Aus are not immigrating with an online income or pension. They are going to take advantage of all the social and government services a western country affords. They are draining the system, not adding to it.

Hence why all the mexicans are jumping the border to USA, yet Americans can stroll in and out of Mexico without a worry in the world.

Going to Mexico - sure easy - next to nothing ... U.S. card passport ... no visa... but who in his/her right mind would go to Mexico - especially traversing the border towns... 45,000 people murdered in Mexico in the last 5 years ... and this drug lord rampage has entered a number of tourist destination deeper into Mexico ... it is about as reasonable as vacationing in the Thai-Malaysian border communities on the Gulf of Thailand side...

[neverdie]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

I agree with you fully @istinspring, it is a big expectation that many people have about living here and the 'right' to some form of Visa.

I have seen first hand how difficult it is for Thai's and Indian's to get a UK Visa, a USA Visa or an Australian Visa. Even a visitor Visa is a challenge, let alone expecting to stay for six months or more or / and trying to work.

As a Brit, even getting a working visa in Australia was heaps of paperwork, exam certificates, company references, medicals etc.

All that said, there are some decent people living and retiring here and their spending power in Thailand makes them worthwhile to protect, so some form of process improvement needs to take place. I am not sure what we have going on now is going to weed out the undesirables, but perhaps its a start?

You are both completely clueless.

It isn't a double standard at all. There is a big difference.

Farang coming to stay in Thailand are putting money into the economy. Johnny Twofingers doesn't immigrate to BKK then jump on the dole, and get free medical/housing/education/food stamps/ etc. Nor is he working and then sending money back to the UK/US/AUS on his Thai salary.

Thais going to UK/Aus are not immigrating with an online income or pension. They are going to take advantage of all the social and government services a western country affords. They are draining the system, not adding to it.

Hence why all the mexicans are jumping the border to USA, yet Americans can stroll in and out of Mexico without a worry in the world.

Whilst I understand what you are saying and the fact that you in a lot of cases are right, I know two Thai ladies that live in Australia and that are working and earning Triple figure salaries, paying taxes, buying houses and one of them even supports her invalid Australian husband (they met in Australia). Both of those ladies have lived in excess of a decade in Oz. My wife also contributes significantly through taxes although she's not quite earning triple figures and she also does volunteer work in Oz. All these ladies had to jump thru all the hoops to get their foot in the door. I also know several other Thais with businesses and well and truely contributing to Oz society & again nobody made it easy when they had to get in the door. I am sure there's 100's of more cases like this.

Not every Thai flocking abroad is doing so on the arm of a foreign sponsor and a good percentage of those that do arrive under sponsorship also contribute......it's far from all take & govts handouts.

Actually, I'm seeing a lot more good for nothing lazy layabout Australians than I am Thais sitting around in Oz asking for a handout. Bit of balance is needed in what you have stated above, that's all.

cheers.

[ukrules]

I brought up this very thing with a US Consul General. When a good friend was denied, despite meeting all the criteria.

There is a quota on how many people are granted US visas - and that quota is pressured downward by the Thai authorities.

This is interesting and it's the first time I've heard of it.

The quota is pressured downward by the Thai's ? Is there any reason for this and if so do you know why ?

[duanebigsby]

Trained monkeys can earn 30k a month, dressing up and riding miniature bicycles.

People's needs are different.

Yours and Soutpeel's contempt and condescension are completely unwarranted and arrogant to an extreme.

I made really decent money in Vancouver, about $4500 a month. In one of the world's most expensive places to live, I would be hard pressed to put $300 of it away in the bank.

Here I make 30k baht and put 16k in the bank. I'm happy. I enjoy what I do, I enjoy my life in Thailand far better than at home.

I'm not jealous of richer people or more "successful" people like yourselves, but I certainly have no respect for the manner in which you seem to want to denigrate English teachers.

I never said anything negative about Teachers, but what I said was directed at another poster who I quoted directly above where I said what you quoted above (not sure that makes sense).

What I will say though is each to their own, you might choose to teach in Thailand, make $1000 USD a month and be happy saving $400USD a month but I wouldn't be. Your situation may be very different to mine and nowhere did I say anything about being richer or more successful than you or anyone, but the basic fact still stands, that's not much money, period. In fact, I will tell you, my aunt pushes a Som Tam & BBQ Cart and she makes more profit than that in a month and she struggles to survive on that.....and she's Thai, so I don't think I'm being unfair in suggesting there's no way I would do that. (As per my response to another poster on the page before the above comment).

Make no mistake about it, anything I said that made you feel that I was trying to denigrate English teachers is wrong, I simply was stating this is a VERY low amount of money in any mans language and it's completely possible that a monkey on a miniature bicycle is out earning this amount whether or not you like to hear that.

If you can build a future and live a happy life at that price point then kudos to you. I seriously doubt that it's an entirely sustainable option for any foreigner in Thailand, over the longer term. Perhaps I am wrong but saving $400 per month over a lifetime won't afford anyone much at all in retirement & no matter what way you spin that you will probably find that I'm right about that.

What you've written here, reinforces your negative views of English teachers willing to work for 30k. You basically said we were as useful as trained monkeys and as lowly as som tam cart operators. If that's not saying anything negative about teachers, I don't know what is.

You don't need to say you're more successful or richer directly. Ridiculing what I work for, says it blatantly.

It's a low salary by Western standards, by Thai standards it's slightly more than 3 times the minimum wage. In Canada that would be $33 per hour, not too shabby. I only need to teach a few years until 3 times this amount comes to me in pension.

Review what you have written, you really have been making nasty remarks about teachers and anyone not in your income level.

[neverdie]

Trained monkeys can earn 30k a month, dressing up and riding miniature bicycles.

People's needs are different.

Yours and Soutpeel's contempt and condescension are completely unwarranted and arrogant to an extreme.

I made really decent money in Vancouver, about $4500 a month. In one of the world's most expensive places to live, I would be hard pressed to put $300 of it away in the bank.

Here I make 30k baht and put 16k in the bank. I'm happy. I enjoy what I do, I enjoy my life in Thailand far better than at home.

I'm not jealous of richer people or more "successful" people like yourselves, but I certainly have no respect for the manner in which you seem to want to denigrate English teachers.

I never said anything negative about Teachers, but what I said was directed at another poster who I quoted directly above where I said what you quoted above (not sure that makes sense).

What I will say though is each to their own, you might choose to teach in Thailand, make $1000 USD a month and be happy saving $400USD a month but I wouldn't be. Your situation may be very different to mine and nowhere did I say anything about being richer or more successful than you or anyone, but the basic fact still stands, that's not much money, period. In fact, I will tell you, my aunt pushes a Som Tam & BBQ Cart and she makes more profit than that in a month and she struggles to survive on that.....and she's Thai, so I don't think I'm being unfair in suggesting there's no way I would do that. (As per my response to another poster on the page before the above comment).

Make no mistake about it, anything I said that made you feel that I was trying to denigrate English teachers is wrong, I simply was stating this is a VERY low amount of money in any mans language and it's completely possible that a monkey on a miniature bicycle is out earning this amount whether or not you like to hear that.

If you can build a future and live a happy life at that price point then kudos to you. I seriously doubt that it's an entirely sustainable option for any foreigner in Thailand, over the longer term. Perhaps I am wrong but saving $400 per month over a lifetime won't afford anyone much at all in retirement & no matter what way you spin that you will probably find that I'm right about that.

What you've written here, reinforces your negative views of English teachers willing to work for 30k. You basically said we were as useful as trained monkeys and as lowly as som tam cart operators. If that's not saying anything negative about teachers, I don't know what is.

You don't need to say you're more successful or richer directly. Ridiculing what I work for, says it blatantly.

It's a low salary by Western standards, by Thai standards it's slightly more than 3 times the minimum wage. In Canada that would be $33 per hour, not too shabby. I only need to teach a few years until 3 times this amount comes to me in pension.

Review what you have written, you really have been making nasty remarks about teachers and anyone not in your income level.

My aunt (not my inlaw aunt) is a som tam cart owner operator.....I see nothing lowly about her whatsoever, nor do I see anything lowly about a foreign English teacher in Thailand. It's a fact that some of those are lowly paid & by lowly I mean a low number.

No matter what I say, you will put the negative spin on it, I only need to send you the neverdie voodoo doll so you can complete your demonisation of me.

Don't make any mistakes about the real fact about Thai wages verses the reality. My uncle is a delivery driver and company roustabout by day, his company wages are around 14,000 baht per month, his sideline business in <snip> makes him multiples of this amount every month! which is why he can afford to send his kid to university and he owns a house in one of the better areas of Chaengwattana. A Thai girl I was raised with works in a bank as a teller by day, she only makes about 12k baht, her sideline business more than doubles her total monthly intake.

My MIL works in a factory, she a supervisor on about 16-17k a month, depending on shifts worked, she sells clothes at a market in her spare time, drives a newish Vigo and has 2 houses, of which I nor my wife did not pay for.

There's millions of examples like this right around LOS, there's the official numbers then there's really what people are earning. But what would I know eh, I've only got 50% of the blood pumping thru my veins.

Again, I repeat, you are putting the flavour on my words and reading what you want to read about what I may or may not think about foreign teachers in LOS. Irregardless of that, there probably really is monkies on little trikes earning more than 30k a month, I'm sorry about that but I am glad you are happy.

Don't worry about what you think that I might think, because you are wrong.

[ajack]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Who has the time/resources to monitor a person who possesses no credentials whatsoever?

It does not take any degree of intelligence to get a certificate in TEFL (or any other similar program). But does that make a teacher? Heck no!

I want a person who has taken Child Psychology classes; a person that has demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt that they can complete a university degree (which btw, isn't difficult).

Whether a university educated person, regardless if they studied teaching, psychology or under-water basket weaving, will make a good teach is anyone's guess. However, I'll wager my money these educated people will probably almost always be better at teaching than some retard high-school drop-out.

I have hired and fired many a teacher in my time, some with degrees and some without. The level of education of a teacher has never been a good barometer of a person's ability to teach. Not in my experience.

The ability and skills to teach don't just mean walking into a classroom. It involves planning classes, making flash cards and worksheets, planning activities, being professional in appearance and personality. The whole package.

I've had teachers without degrees work like this and teachers with degrees not making any effort whatsoever. And of course vice versa.

People without degrees are not simply "retard high school drop-outs." Some have finished college at least (college in the UK is A-Level before going to Uni), some have taken a successful route into employment, some simply can't afford to go to university. There are many reasons for not having a university degree, not just a lack of intelligence.

Also, I am astounded at the number of CVs/resumes received from degree holders with an inability to spell or form coherent sentences properly. I can only presume the standard of degrees has decreased somewhat.

[TheSpade]

so why dont all the whiners go to chile?

You need to get a life and spend some time away from the computer.

You're online more than even the most hard working digital nomad.

Go do something productive.

Chile just isn't as attractive a place to live as Thailand IME.

It's my least favorite country in South America.

Santiago didn't excite me.

It's cost of living is higher than Thailand.

The food isn't as good (the national dish is a 'completo' aka a hot dog)

There's a lot of crime in Santiago.

No cheap flights to surrounding countries like Thailand offers and the country is stupidly long and with no trains so you end up needing to take buses for 24hrs just to travel less than half of the country,

So that's why I personally don't want to live in Chile but not sure why others don't. Imagine they've never been before and don't know much about it.

[AYJAYDEE]

so why dont all the whiners go to chile?

You need to get a life and spend some time away from the computer.

You're online more than even the most hard working digital nomad.

Go do something productive.

Chile just isn't as attractive a place to live as Thailand IME.

It's my least favorite country in South America.

Santiago didn't excite me.

It's cost of living is higher than Thailand.

The food isn't as good (the national dish is a 'completo' aka a hot dog)

There's a lot of crime in Santiago.

No cheap flights to surrounding countries like Thailand offers and the country is stupidly long and with no trains so you end up needing to take buses for 24hrs just to travel less than half of the country,

So that's why I personally don't want to live in Chile but not sure why others don't. Imagine they've never been before and don't know much about it.

so you answered my question but i would suggest that you should tone down the personal stuff.

[louse1953]

Once your registered,no more low profile,saves them looking for you.

[Mencken]

Allow teachers to apply directly for their own B visa, allow that to be extended based up finding a ful time job.

Next, allow stated teacher to apply for a teaching waiver for and by himself thru new simplified, fast-track process. Allow five one year waivers.

Next, wp, register to pay tax. Allow one year B visa.

TCT create professional course that is not expensive, most teachers make 30-40k max. Have this course run in three major cities on Saturdays by reasonable people not dumbass farang teaching that ielts, delta nonsense that all are grammar nazis with chips on their shoulders having never made anything of themselves.

Upon a simple pass in class and two years teaching, the teacher gets a license for life.

The license along with a formal job offer by public school gets a B visa.

Do not ever, ever remove need for a bachelors. In fact, tighten majors eligible:

Math teaches Math only

Science - Science only

>Eng, Hist, FA, PoliSci, Law, Lit and Journalism only or

>Psychology with xx credits in child development

*Must graduate not only with bachelors but from a proper institution

UK, US,CA,IR,AU,NZ, Scandanavia. Philippinos and Indians pass an additional competence test as degrees highly suspect and TOEIC 900 but eligible for same.

No bachelors no job.

[Mencken]

Even if teaching English can be argued to be a vocational skill, not having a degree and working at a school even in Thailand is just nonsensical. There is little respect by Thai teachers toward farang and this is the doing of all the morons who disrespect and disobey. Idiots that forget...its a job and jobs have standards and rules.

So now you allow persons with no degree, what's next? I think even Thai staff would object and surely all respect for foreign teachers will be lost.

Many of the people that wash ashore and teach here have no work ethic or ethics in general, why lower the bar?

Sure, there is the odd person who is the exception and for many reasons but oh well. Let there be some difficult and strict allowance for them.

9 out of 10 posters whinging about let the nondegreed teach are just self serving narcissists.

Go get a degree and stop whining. Oh, its not THAT important? Gee, you've been telling yourself that a lifetime and look where its got you.

[TheSpade]

so you answered my question but i would suggest that you should tone down the personal stuff.

Touch a nerve did I?

In fact, I will tell you, my aunt pushes a Som Tam & BBQ Cart and she makes more profit than that in a month and she struggles to survive on that.....and she's Thai, so I don't think I'm being unfair in suggesting there's no way I would do that. (As per my response to another poster on the page before the above comment).

So your aunty works at a Som Tam cart, makes $1k a month which is roughly 32,000B a month and she "struggles to survive"?

Either you're talking nonsense, your aunt lives an over extravagant life, or she needs to learn to budget better.

32,000B a month is more than enough to live a perfectly good life in Thailand. Even in Bangkok as a single Western male who likes Western comforts it's perfectly feasible.

It's not a lot of money by Western standards but in Thailand it's 3.5 times the minimum wage and more than enough to live off and live well too.

[duanebigsby]

Allow teachers to apply directly for their own B visa, allow that to be extended based up finding a ful time job.

Next, allow stated teacher to apply for a teaching waiver for and by himself thru new simplified, fast-track process. Allow five one year waivers.

Next, wp, register to pay tax. Allow one year B visa.

TCT create professional course that is not expensive, most teachers make 30-40k max. Have this course run in three major cities on Saturdays by reasonable people not dumbass farang teaching that ielts, delta nonsense that all are grammar nazis with chips on their shoulders having never made anything of themselves.

Upon a simple pass in class and two years teaching, the teacher gets a license for life.

The license along with a formal job offer by public school gets a B visa.

Do not ever, ever remove need for a bachelors. In fact, tighten majors eligible:

Math teaches Math only

Science - Science only

>Eng, Hist, FA, PoliSci, Law, Lit and Journalism only or

>Psychology with xx credits in child development

*Must graduate not only with bachelors but from a proper institution

UK, US,CA,IR,AU,NZ, Scandanavia. Philippinos and Indians pass an additional competence test as degrees highly suspect and TOEIC 900 but eligible for same.

No bachelors no job.

Your degree majors are too much and don't make much sense.

The job is talking to kids. I'm sure math or science majors can teach English and without Education degrees you'd have them not teach at all because only International and IEP schools even offer math and science taught in English.

Two teachers at my school are making innovative lessons the whole school is talking about and taking notice....Fine arts majors.

Making learning fun for kids through Art.

[AYJAYDEE]

so you answered my question but i would suggest that you should tone down the personal stuff.

Touch a nerve did I?

In fact, I will tell you, my aunt pushes a Som Tam & BBQ Cart and she makes more profit than that in a month and she struggles to survive on that.....and she's Thai, so I don't think I'm being unfair in suggesting there's no way I would do that. (As per my response to another poster on the page before the above comment).

So your aunty works at a Som Tam cart, makes $1k a month which is roughly 32,000B a month and she "struggles to survive"?

Either you're talking nonsense, your aunt lives an over extravagant life, or she needs to learn to budget better.

32,000B a month is more than enough to live a perfectly good life in Thailand. Even in Bangkok as a single Western male who likes Western comforts it's perfectly feasible.

It's not a lot of money by Western standards but in Thailand it's 3.5 times the minimum wage and more than enough to live off and live well too.

actually you didnt but you'll definitely get touched if you persist

[Hawkman]

Allow teachers to apply directly for their own B visa, allow that to be extended based up finding a ful time job.

Next, allow stated teacher to apply for a teaching waiver for and by himself thru new simplified, fast-track process. Allow five one year waivers.

Next, wp, register to pay tax. Allow one year B visa.

TCT create professional course that is not expensive, most teachers make 30-40k max. Have this course run in three major cities on Saturdays by reasonable people not dumbass farang teaching that ielts, delta nonsense that all are grammar nazis with chips on their shoulders having never made anything of themselves.

Upon a simple pass in class and two years teaching, the teacher gets a license for life.

The license along with a formal job offer by public school gets a B visa.

Do not ever, ever remove need for a bachelors. In fact, tighten majors eligible:

Math teaches Math only

Science - Science only

>Eng, Hist, FA, PoliSci, Law, Lit and Journalism only or

>Psychology with xx credits in child development

*Must graduate not only with bachelors but from a proper institution

UK, US,CA,IR,AU,NZ, Scandanavia. Philippinos and Indians pass an additional competence test as degrees highly suspect and TOEIC 900 but eligible for same.

No bachelors no job.

What's wrong with farang teaching IELTS? I have helped many, many students over here reach their goals and achieve their aim of going abroad to study and improve their ability to communicate, understand and write by preparing them well. What's the wrong in that? It has brought happiness and confidence to many. Don't understand your problem at all.

Another thing, DELTA, nonsense?

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. I've spoken to many excellent teachers who express how Delta vastly improved their teaching which in effect improved their students' English skills.

And though I agree with you, in an ideal world people should have bachelors for each subject they teach, you do realise your ideal requirements to become a TEFL teacher will not only mean a huge shortage in teachers but send English courses through the roof. Unless you are hi-so, no normal or poor children will have the chance to learn English through a native speaker.

Are your requirements for TEFL just for Thailand or the world in whole? Including Africa, South America etc?

Move away from your prejudices and bitterness towards teachers and look at the bigger picture.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[brewsterbudgen]

Allow teachers to apply directly for their own B visa, allow that to be extended based up finding a ful time job.

Next, allow stated teacher to apply for a teaching waiver for and by himself thru new simplified, fast-track process. Allow five one year waivers.

Next, wp, register to pay tax. Allow one year B visa.

TCT create professional course that is not expensive, most teachers make 30-40k max. Have this course run in three major cities on Saturdays by reasonable people not dumbass farang teaching that ielts, delta nonsense that all are grammar nazis with chips on their shoulders having never made anything of themselves.

Upon a simple pass in class and two years teaching, the teacher gets a license for life.

The license along with a formal job offer by public school gets a B visa.

Do not ever, ever remove need for a bachelors. In fact, tighten majors eligible:

Math teaches Math only

Science - Science only

>Eng, Hist, FA, PoliSci, Law, Lit and Journalism only or

>Psychology with xx credits in child development

*Must graduate not only with bachelors but from a proper institution

UK, US,CA,IR,AU,NZ, Scandanavia. Philippinos and Indians pass an additional competence test as degrees highly suspect and TOEIC 900 but eligible for same.

No bachelors no job.

What's wrong with farang teaching IELTS? I have helped many, many students over here reach their goals and achieve their aim of going abroad to study and improve their ability to communicate, understand and write by preparing them well. What's the wrong in that? It has brought happiness and confidence to many. Don't understand your problem at all.

Another thing, DELTA, nonsense?

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. I've spoken to many excellent teachers who express how Delta vastly improved their teaching which in effect improved their students' English skills.

And though I agree with you, in an ideal world people should have bachelors for each subject they teach, you do realise your ideal requirements to become a TEFL teacher will not only mean a huge shortage in teachers but send English courses through the roof. Unless you are hi-so, no normal or poor children will have the chance to learn English through a native speaker.

Are your requirements for TEFL just for Thailand or the world in whole? Including Africa, South America etc?

Move away from your prejudices and bitterness towards teachers and look at the bigger picture.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

IELTS is currently by far the most popular academic test for studying in the UK/Australia and also, increasingly popular for American universities. There is lots of (well paid) work coaching students through the exam. But to be an IELTS Examiner you need a degree...

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Even if teaching English can be argued to be a vocational skill, not having a degree and working at a school even in Thailand is just nonsensical. There is little respect by Thai teachers toward farang and this is the doing of all the morons who disrespect and disobey. Idiots that forget...its a job and jobs have standards and rules.

So now you allow persons with no degree, what's next? I think even Thai staff would object and surely all respect for foreign teachers will be lost.

Many of the people that wash ashore and teach here have no work ethic or ethics in general, why lower the bar?

Sure, there is the odd person who is the exception and for many reasons but oh well. Let there be some difficult and strict allowance for them.

9 out of 10 posters whinging about let the nondegreed teach are just self serving narcissists.

Go get a degree and stop whining. Oh, its not THAT important? Gee, you've been telling yourself that a lifetime and look where its got you.

So how does a degree in geology say, help you to become a better teacher? This is what I don't understand.

I was told many years ago that the reason a degree was asked for was that it showed dedication by the holder over a four year period to one task. This is obviously outside degrees in education which would bypass the requirement for the teaching certificate anyway.

This was told by a Thai professor at a university up here. Not sure if it is factual or not, but I can't see any degree which is not teaching related being good for much else outside the field of expertise it was directed at.

[Soutpeel]

So how does a degree in geology say, help you to become a better teacher? This is what I don't understand.

its doesnt, its about useful as having a masters degree in comparative religious studies and wanting to take a job as a structural engineer.

[chrisinth]

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So how does a degree in geology say, help you to become a better teacher? This is what I don't understand.

its doesnt, its about useful as having a masters degree in comparative religious studies and wanting to take a job as a structural engineer.
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Now lets not bring my degree in religious studies and structural into the same sentence please.....................

Still, "God dam_n freekin' bridge won't line up" could be useful at times. Unless you're building condos.

[Gutterboy]

But all the other costs are pretty standard, not taking the piss, it's not like I wanted to spend 40k!

If I understand you correctly, let me ask you this serious question, why are you spending 40k ?.....the company want to employ you they should carry the costs associated with aquiring the correct documentation for you to work for THEM...

if you have paid up front and will be reinbursed, I understand, but tell me your not inferring you have spent your own money just so a company will give you a job ?....surely not

having worked under mutiple work permit/visa set ups in many countries over the years, if a company told he I had to pick up the tab for my own documentation for the "privillage" of work for them, I would tell the company to stuff the job up their ar*e..., however over the years I have paid for various visa's up front, simply because I was in a different country from the company employing me, but I have always been reinbursed for the costs, inclusive of any travel costs, if I had to turn up in person to get a visa issued

Soutpeel are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?! You said it yourself in your previous post - that I was making a point about complexity and costs! It's irrelevant who has to foot the bill for all this. All I was trying to say was that many schools did not / would not get work permits for their teachers because it's a complicated and expensive process. Judging by the number of "likes" on my original post, I had a valid point, but it seems to have been lost in the midst of all the arguing!

Edited August 27, 2014 by Gutterboy

[duanebigsby]

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Even if teaching English can be argued to be a vocational skill, not having a degree and working at a school even in Thailand is just nonsensical. There is little respect by Thai teachers toward farang and this is the doing of all the morons who disrespect and disobey. Idiots that forget...its a job and jobs have standards and rules.

So now you allow persons with no degree, what's next? I think even Thai staff would object and surely all respect for foreign teachers will be lost.

Many of the people that wash ashore and teach here have no work ethic or ethics in general, why lower the bar?

Sure, there is the odd person who is the exception and for many reasons but oh well. Let there be some difficult and strict allowance for them.

9 out of 10 posters whinging about let the nondegreed teach are just self serving narcissists.

Go get a degree and stop whining. Oh, its not THAT important? Gee, you've been telling yourself that a lifetime and look where its got you.

So how does a degree in geology say, help you to become a better teacher? This is what I don't understand.

I was told many years ago that the reason a degree was asked for was that it showed dedication by the holder over a four year period to one task. This is obviously outside degrees in education which would bypass the requirement for the teaching certificate anyway.

This was told by a Thai professor at a university up here. Not sure if it is factual or not, but I can't see any degree which is not teaching related being good for much else outside the field of expertise it was directed at.

Most of the developing world uses TEFL trained people to teach English. Thailand needs to be no different.

If a country demands B.Ed.'s they'll lose a lot of foreigners and the level of English will plummet further.

[ericthai]

But all the other costs are pretty standard, not taking the piss, it's not like I wanted to spend 40k!

If I understand you correctly, let me ask you this serious question, why are you spending 40k ?.....the company want to employ you they should carry the costs associated with aquiring the correct documentation for you to work for THEM...

if you have paid up front and will be reinbursed, I understand, but tell me your not inferring you have spent your own money just so a company will give you a job ?....surely not

having worked under mutiple work permit/visa set ups in many countries over the years, if a company told he I had to pick up the tab for my own documentation for the "privillage" of work for them, I would tell the company to stuff the job up their ar*e..., however over the years I have paid for various visa's up front, simply because I was in a different country from the company employing me, but I have always been reinbursed for the costs, inclusive of any travel costs, if I had to turn up in person to get a visa issued

It's not exactly fair that the employee seems to have to pay for the whole process, and undertake it himself. Our foreign staff generally get their visa in their country of origin first, when they arrive hand all the documnets to HR, get a medical check done and that's pretty much it - other than going to collect the WP. They certainly don't pay for the privilege of working for us.

Exactly and for some reason he is saying he had to go to BKK twice for his WP, Dont know why. My office is in BKK and our factory is in Ubon and I only have to go to BKK to pick up my WP. I send my medical exam and soon to be expired WP to my office by bus( worried about getting lost in the mail.) They call me when ready and go to BKK to pick it up. Spending 40K was his/ there own fault for not planning and not knowing how to do things. I had stated many times the cost of getting a work permit is not expensive, but people keep thinking it is because that is what companies tell them, just crazy!

[timewilltell]

Getting a work permit is not difficult nor expensive. The reason schools don't get work permits is one of two reasons, either they don't qualify or they don't want to pay the taxes on the teachers salary. Schools give excuses it's expensive and difficult. More or less the teachers are working under the table and no taxes are being paid. The cost for a work permit is a little less than 3000B.

True that the fees for work permit are 3,000 B, and true that some places are concerned with dodging taxes, but the costs and difficulties associated with this ridiculous system are huge indeed. I'm not making it up: I have just received my own work permit and the total cost was close to 40,000 B, and that figure does not take into account all the time, hassle and stress involved!

Why did it cost you 40,000B? Did you pay someone to get it for you? Your company is suppose to pay the fees for it. Dont know why it cost you 40K my staff have been taking care of mine for years and the cost is 2700B. To get the WP you need to have you B visa which you need to show you paid your taxes.

How can you have paid taxes if you have never had a work permit?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Thai Visa Service]

In the meantime the border check points did not get any new guidelines.

[brianp0803]

Possibly because language schools feel English teachers are sometimes transient they don't want to incur upfront expenses of a wirk permit.

I think reasonable if they are hiring someone that has been in the country less than a year and less than a month of training to get a TEFL.

Employee pay upfront but reimbursement after a year is reasonable.

If a teacher has a work history and shows more value and stability then they could negotiate.

The cost of a work permit is small if it is for a year.